Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Empire of Plagues vs Imperial Droid Division

[Beniboybling]

@Silenceo

 

Considering Warren is putting forward an argument for Jerec's death it might be a good idea to put forward one about taking down Muur. Getting into his base is all well and good but I don't think actually killing Muur has been discussed.

[Silenceo]

@Silenceo

 

Considering Warren is putting forward an argument for Jerec's death it might be a good idea to put forward one about taking down Muur. Getting into his base is all well and good but I don't think actually killing Muur has been discussed.

 

Well, one way that I was thinking was basically Wall of Phrik. But, I guess I will need to be more specific, so I will write up a possible scenario after I do a little more research.

 

Side Note: Muur has his HQ in the sewers, correct? Also, I am guessing we are using him when he had his curved light saber instead of his proto saber? Few things I see is a lack of much feats, I have yet to actually read the piece where he is in the Legacy era, so if someone could link me some Muur feats, that would be appreciated.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Silenceo

[Silenceo]

Burning the Nest

 

Phase I

 

 

- IDD locate entrances to the sewer *Black Vulkars base would be one of several*

- Entrances become fortified to protect flanks

- PI's are sent in to secure the initial staging area.

- PII's reinforce the position.

- PIII's secure the staging area, freeing up the PII's *PIII's are likely too broad/tall to travel through tunnels and fight.

- Set up a perimeter.

- Desann arrives to organize the assault as well as lead it.

- IG-88 acts as Vanguard, ensuring there are no hidden surprises and weakening enemy forces with gas and flame throwers in such enclosed space. Possible reloads located in the secured staging point.

- PI's prepare a phalanx formation.

- PII's setup behind the PI's to supply suppressive fire.

-They begin purging the sewers, taking advantage of the severely enclosed spaces to limit enemy numbers as well as to bottle neck them. Likely suffering few, if any casualties.

 

 

Phase II (Assuming EoP is outside of sewers)

 

 

- Once purged, signal for the PIII's to rejoin the main force, the rear is no longer a concern.

- Two PII's are sent just outside of the exit, using their jump packs to ensure that the immediate exit is not a kill-zone.

- Rest of force exits the sewers and again secures the immediate area.

- PII's used again to gain high vantage points to spot pockets of enemy resistance.

- PI's used to flank and ambush small groups.

- Once it has struck a few enemy groups, it migrates so that its position is not pin pointed before repeating.

- Large group of enemies likely sent to investigate, which is ambushed by PII's.

- Leviathans while in the area, does not smell food of them since only one is food, and it can find it else where.

- When the Leviathans do attack the group, the PI's take shelter due to not being able to do anything.

- PII's use jetpacks and their heavy weaponry to distract the beast.

- PIII's unload missiles into the beasts head, likely putting them down.

- Continue towards EoP camp.

 

 

Phase II (Assuming EoP base is in the sewers)

 

 

- Once Muur is located, the area is closed off and secured.

- PIII's are called to the front.

- Trap Muur behind a long line of Dark Troopers so it is impossible to make a run for it.

- IDD whittles down who they can with range, grenades, ect.

- Close off passage ways the EoP could use to reinforce their leader.

- Use choke points and kill zones to devastating effect.

 

 

Phase III

 

 

- Desann, IG-88, and the PIII's engage Muur and who else is with him that was not already gunned down.

- Muur outclasses Desann in force power, but the lizards strength might win him the light saber edge.

- Muur is unable to punish Desann's aggressive mistakes due to the supporting PIII's and IG-88.

- If Lomi is there, she is likely gunned down by the severe amount of firepower the PIII's bring. She can likely defend herself for a short time, but the missiles combined with the sheer amount of shots will over whelm and kill her.

- Nekghouls are unable to evade/deflect the shots and are almost completely ineffective.

- Kiliks which were left are only slightly effective due to their chitin armor allowing some of them to close distance.

- The EoP forces continue to dwindle with Muur still engaged in a light saber duel with Desann.

- Desann likely ends up losing due to Muurs force capabilities.

- Desann however is wearing a PII suit and so is able to defend himself still.

- Muur is then gunned down by the IDD forces, overwhelmed by the sheer firepower and the inability to harm them quickly enough to disable or slow them.

 

 

There are flaws, there are flaws in every scenario, but this seems to be the most "logical" way that the IDD would go about dealing with a Dark Side power house such as Muur. The key to keep in mind is that he is likely in the sewers, so the Leviathans will likely not come into play, and the enclosed space will turn against the EoP. Do note that while the PII's and PI's are not mentioned in Phase III, that is because the PII's will be firing in from the perimeter or defending it from outside forces. The PI's will almost entirely be ensuring no other forces can breach the area in time.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Silenceo

[karadron]

[quote name='Silenceo'][COLOR="White"][B]Burning the Nest[/B] [B]Phase I[/B] [SPOILER][I]- IDD locate entrances to the sewer *Black Vulkars base would be one of several* - Entrances become fortified to protect flanks - PI's are sent in to secure the initial staging area. - PII's reinforce the position. - PIII's secure the staging area, freeing up the PII's *PIII's are likely too broad/tall to travel through tunnels and fight. - Set up a perimeter. - Desann arrives to organize the assault as well as lead it. - IG-88 acts as Vanguard, ensuring there are no hidden surprises and weakening enemy forces with gas and flame throwers in such enclosed space. Possible reloads located in the secured staging point. - PI's prepare a phalanx formation. - PII's setup behind the PI's to supply suppressive fire. -They begin purging the sewers, taking advantage of the severely enclosed spaces to limit enemy numbers as well as to bottle neck them. Likely suffering few, if any casualties. [/I][/SPOILER] [B]Phase II (Assuming EoP is outside of sewers)[/B] [SPOILER][I] - Once purged, signal for the PIII's to rejoin the main force, the rear is no longer a concern. - Two PII's are sent just outside of the exit, using their jump packs to ensure that the immediate exit is not a kill-zone. - Rest of force exits the sewers and again secures the immediate area. - PII's used again to gain high vantage points to spot pockets of enemy resistance. - PI's used to flank and ambush small groups. - Once it has struck a few enemy groups, it migrates so that its position is not pin pointed before repeating. - Large group of enemies likely sent to investigate, which is ambushed by PII's. - Leviathans while in the area, does not smell food of them since only one is food, and it can find it else where. - When the Leviathans do attack the group, the PI's take shelter due to not being able to do anything. - PII's use jetpacks and their heavy weaponry to distract the beast. - PIII's unload missiles into the beasts head, likely putting them down. - Continue towards EoP camp.[/I][/SPOILER] [B]Phase II (Assuming EoP base is in the sewers)[/B] [SPOILER][I] - Once Muur is located, the area is closed off and secured. - PIII's are called to the front. - Trap Muur behind a long line of Dark Troopers so it is impossible to make a run for it. - IDD whittles down who they can with range, grenades, ect. - Close off passage ways the EoP could use to reinforce their leader. - Use choke points and kill zones to devastating effect. [/I][/SPOILER] [B]Phase III[/B] [SPOILER][I]- Desann, IG-88, and the PIII's engage Muur and who else is with him that was not already gunned down. - Muur outclasses Desann in force power, but the lizards strength might win him the light saber edge. - Muur is unable to punish Desann's aggressive mistakes due to the supporting PIII's and IG-88. - If Lomi is there, she is likely gunned down by the severe amount of firepower the PIII's bring. She can likely defend herself for a short time, but the missiles combined with the sheer amount of shots will over whelm and kill her. - Nekghouls are unable to evade/deflect the shots and are almost completely ineffective. - Kiliks which were left are only slightly effective due to their chitin armor allowing some of them to close distance. - The EoP forces continue to dwindle with Muur still engaged in a light saber duel with Desann. - Desann likely ends up losing due to Muurs force capabilities. - Desann however is wearing a PII suit and so is able to defend himself still. - Muur is then gunned down by the IDD forces, overwhelmed by the sheer firepower and the inability to harm them quickly enough to disable or slow them.[/I][/SPOILER] There are flaws, there are flaws in every scenario, but this seems to be the most "logical" way that the IDD would go about dealing with a Dark Side power house such as Muur. The key to keep in mind is that he is likely in the sewers, so the Leviathans will likely not come into play, and the enclosed space will turn against the EoP. Do note that while the PII's and PI's are not mentioned in Phase III, that is because the PII's will be firing in from the perimeter or defending it from outside forces. The PI's will almost entirely be ensuring no other forces can breach the area in time.[/COLOR][/QUOTE] You forgot Phase IV, and this goes for all the other most recent plans to win. [SIZE="4"][B]Phase IV[/B][/SIZE] [SPOILER]$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :D[/SPOILER] Edited July 24, 2014 by karadron

[tunewalker]

Concerning Killik breed specifying ratios would be arbitrary so I'm not about to do that, neither can I endorse the number of Jooj given either. I'm just going to leave that at "lots." However we should not consider them to be any different from the ratios you would find in a standard infantry's support ranks. So the main force is most likely going to be Gorog warriors, with other units being brought in as an when they are needed. I am sure we can manage without specific numbers, its always important to not get too attached to figures and be capable of thinking generally.

 

Also I actually got the figures wrong for the Killiks (incoming buff, brace yourself), it should be 3900, based on the numbers I acquired later on the Great Swarm, which I used to inform the no. of Massassi given to Star.

 

is there a place that lists the different clans that would make it easier to look it up.... Also I do not believe the numerical change ultimately changes anything. The phalanx strategy someone talked about earlier could cause a few hundred the ability to take on thousands. And while the Voxyn can and will find the force users they will not be undefended. While they can kill Force users, Force users with good saber skill can kill them as well. Further more one of the most effective weapons against the YV and these creatures were in fact a type of droid, I have little difficulty believing the P3's are more then capable of defending the leaders of the IDD.

 

The specialized killiks will be 100% neccisary to break the phalanx strategy of the P1's and P2's I am unsure how the other vehicles of the IDD will be used though, they don't seem like much use, unless they can get down to the undercity or the EoP some how miraculously get to the top levels, though I also feel this way about the Laviathan in the EoP.

 

Mostly I think the biggest difference will come in the Specialists among the Killiks. The Jooj while I understand beni with the whole "not giving exact numbers" my basic understanding is they would still be about what I talked about. They would assuredly have an effect on the battle field being used by the killiks in droves, but the more they are usd the more they die, the more they die the less effective they are. They will help to break portions of the phalanx but I don't know that its enough. not with out knowing other killiks....

 

 

Edit: Found as much information on relative hives and they DEFFINATELY makes a difference here, but not a HUGE difference, I am unsure who wins with them. The main deciding factor I believe is actually the ability for quick resupply from the Vong.

Edited July 24, 2014 by tunewalker

[karadron]

is there a place that lists the different clans that would make it easier to look it up.... Also I do not believe the numerical change ultimately changes anything. The phalanx strategy someone talked about earlier could cause a few hundred the ability to take on thousands. And while the Voxyn can and will find the force users they will not be undefended. While they can kill Force users, Force users with good saber skill can kill them as well. Further more one of the most effective weapons against the YV and these creatures were in fact a type of droid, I have little difficulty believing the P3's are more then capable of defending the leaders of the IDD.

 

The specialized killiks will be 100% neccisary to break the phalanx strategy of the P1's and P2's I am unsure how the other vehicles of the IDD will be used though, they don't seem like much use, unless they can get down to the undercity or the EoP some how miraculously get to the top levels, though I also feel this way about the Laviathan in the EoP.

 

Mostly I think the biggest difference will come in the Specialists among the Killiks. The Jooj while I understand beni with the whole "not giving exact numbers" my basic understanding is they would still be about what I talked about. They would assuredly have an effect on the battle field being used by the killiks in droves, but the more they are usd the more they die, the more they die the less effective they are. They will help to break portions of the phalanx but I don't know that its enough. not with out knowing other killiks....

 

Not sure if the Jooj have the capability to take out a Dark Trooper, but against the security personal they would probably prove pretty useful.

[tunewalker]

Not sure if the Jooj have the capability to take out a Dark Trooper, but against the security personal they would probably prove pretty useful.

 

The skeletal nature of the P1's and their small size should allow for wire targeting. same with some of the flying ones. They will do damage, but I wouldn't suspect they would do HUGE damage. The other points may be of interest....

[Silenceo]

The skeletal nature of the P1's and their small size should allow for wire targeting. same with some of the flying ones. They will do damage, but I wouldn't suspect they would do HUGE damage. The other points may be of interest....

 

If all they take out is the wiring however, if it is not the crucial invasion in the sewers, then there would be time for the frame to be dragged back to the middle city and new wires installed. Replacing wiring is relatively simply.

 

Though, it is good to note that if IG-88 is with them that the Jooj will likely effect nothing. For instance, in the Burning the Nest Scenario I posted, IG-88 would essentially be able to use his flame thrower and gases liberally, spelling doom for the Jooj.

 

Side Note: If you are referring to the flying PII's then I actually doubt that. Their armor is much closer woven and they could reach safety before their jetpack is damaged if the Jooj went after them. Considering all PII's, and in theory PIII's *yet to find a 100% definite answer for PIII's* have jetpacks, that allows them the sort of maneuverability that nearly nothing else here with that type of firepower has. Sure there is a sub-sect of Kiliks who can fly, but their weaponry is not nearly as devastating as what the PII wields. Not to mention they are much flimsier than the dark trooper even in flight.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Silenceo

[Aurbere]

Honestly, I feel like I'm starting to sound like a broken record when I say that I don't expect any tactical sophistication from the EoP. I recall the Killik swarms as rather straightforward-overwhelm-with-numbers style of warfare. And, unfortunately, that isn't going to work against IDD units. They are too tough, have too much firepower, and have IG-88.

 

That isn't to say that the Killiks will just bullrush the IDD. They'll come out of the walls, they'll come from all angles. But that's... it, really. The sophistication for the EoP comes from their other units, but I only see them providing a distraction so the Killiks can actually do something.

 

Again, that's just from my recollection of the Swarm War.

[tunewalker]

darn it I did it again.... I typed a long response... andwoops its gone again ...... I don't even remember what I said.....

[Silenceo]

darn it I did it again.... I typed a long response... andwoops its gone again ...... I don't even remember what I said.....

 

You were going into a long explanation of why the Burn the Nest Scenario will be successful in such close quarters when using so many Dark Troopers. I have foreseen it... *We did keep reading each others minds in the Survival of the Nerdiest Thread.*

Edited July 24, 2014 by Silenceo

[tunewalker]

You were going into a long explanation of why the Burn the Nest Scenario will be successful in such close quarters when using so many Dark Troopers. I have foreseen it... *We did keep reading each others minds in the Survival of the Nerdiest Thread.*

 

that wasn't exactly it... you are facing a serious numbers disparity... I think my ultimate thing was they would push you back to mid city, but then the city defenses would start taking its toll and you would start pushing them back... Voxyn might sneak in to attack your leaders but with the Guard droids and your leaders own saber skills I doubt they will be successfui I think it was something along those lines...

 

The Killik's have enough specialized units to break your attack line a couple times, but as they lose them and as they climb higher their numbers will dwindle and their ability to break through the attack lines will suffer. until they just cant anymore and the IDD pushes back..... This is of course assuming the IDD NEVER flanks with vehicles, of which I am not sure how much use they would be in close quarters...

[Selenial]

darn it I did it again.... I typed a long response... andwoops its gone again ...... I don't even remember what I said.....

 

If I'm ever having internet issues I just copy my post before I post it...

[Silenceo]

that wasn't exactly it... you are facing a serious numbers disparity... I think my ultimate thing was they would push you back to mid city, but then the city defenses would start taking its toll and you would start pushing them back... Voxyn might sneak in to attack your leaders but with the Guard droids and your leaders own saber skills I doubt they will be successfui I think it was something along those lines...

 

The Killik's have enough specialized units to break your attack line a couple times, but as they lose them and as they climb higher their numbers will dwindle and their ability to break through the attack lines will suffer. until they just cant anymore and the IDD pushes back..... This is of course assuming the IDD NEVER flanks with vehicles, of which I am not sure how much use they would be in close quarters...

 

To help secure the Lower City after the Middle City has already been fortified, I discussed how it might be possible to transport the IDD vehicles to the Lower City Swoop tunnels. That would allow the Spider droids to use the slits in the walls to keep hordes of EoP forces from just zerg rushing the Dark Trooper ranks. The Enforcers would be there for both more rapid horizontal movement and transportation, as well as defending the Swoop Tunnels themselves.

 

Side Note: Close quarters with the vehicles on the middle city would never happen. The Spider Droids are elevated with an anti-personal laser cannon on the bottom independent of the top precision laser. Not to mention it has other weapon mounts on the bottom. The Enforcer would laugh at attempts to melee it. One of its defining traits, is quite literally steam rolling the competition.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Silenceo

[tunewalker]

To help secure the Lower City after the Middle City has already been fortified, I discussed how it might be possible to transport the IDD vehicles to the Lower City Swoop tunnels. That would allow the Spider droids to use the slits in the walls to keep hordes of EoP forces from just zerg rushing the Dark Trooper ranks. The Enforcers would be there for both more rapid horizontal movement and transportation, as well as defending the Swoop Tunnels themselves.

 

Side Note: Close quarters with the vehicles on the middle city would never happen. The Spider Droids are elevated with an anti-personal laser cannon on the bottom independent of the top precision laser. Not to mention it has other weapon mounts on the bottom. The Enforcer would laugh at attempts to melee it. One of its defining traits, is quite literally steam rolling the competition.

 

Thats why I said once they got to Mid city it was pretty much SoL for them...

[StarSquirrel]

Honestly, I feel like I'm starting to sound like a broken record when I say that I don't expect any tactical sophistication from the EoP. I recall the Killik swarms as rather straightforward-overwhelm-with-numbers style of warfare. And, unfortunately, that isn't going to work against IDD units. They are too tough, have too much firepower, and have IG-88.

 

That isn't to say that the Killiks will just bullrush the IDD. They'll come out of the walls, they'll come from all angles. But that's... it, really. The sophistication for the EoP comes from their other units, but I only see them providing a distraction so the Killiks can actually do something.

 

Again, that's just from my recollection of the Swarm War.

 

You're correct. They called it the "Swarm War" for a reason. Yes the entirety of Killik tactics is to swarm, but to do so in every possible way (like you said, through the wall/conduits/pipes etc...) and overwhelm their enemy and the Chiss discovered quickly it is hard to predict exactly what route they'll take. This strategy works well on the worlds Killiks tend to inhabit (like Alderaan) and in urban warfare they can do well, but the phalanx strategy is perhaps the most effective defense conceivable in my opinion.

 

There is a very, very good reason it was the standard order of battle for some of the largest empires ever built and lasted hundreds of years in a time were shields could withstand the impact of a ranged weapon and melee was the standard type of combat. Sounds like our current predicament doesn't it?

 

As far as the Killik's abilities can we get an official breakdown on what subspecies of Killiks are being used or can someone tell me what it is if that's been decided?

 

If it hasn't been decided I'd suggest the Rekker or Gorog nests would make the better standard soldiers with perhaps a smattering of the specialized Killiks (though I don't think the specialized Killiks should be allowed and just stick with a standard subspecies)

 

Honestly, without a proper breakdown I don't feel comfortable measuring the effectiveness of the Killiks or IDD forces. Also, the larger Killiks (like the 50 meter long ones) should be considered light or heavy vehicles and excluded from consideration.

Edited July 24, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[tausra]

I raised the specialized subspecies argument already, Star, Beni nixed it. They are considered to have every variety of Killik that would have been found in The Grand Swarm.

[Selenial]

I raised the specialized subspecies argument already, Star, Beni nixed it. They are considered to have every variety of Killik that would have been found in The Grand Swarm.

 

Which again, I think is ridiculous.

 

If you get the "Rebel Troopers" Great military force, you don't expect to have their spec ops, intelligence, marines etc in with the mix.

 

Beni, you need to think about the big picture not just this Kaggath. You made the new forces the way they are for the specific reason that you're forced to pick forces that aren't debatable in terms of units. IE, We all know exactly what Vehicles each faction has, we know that "Rebel Troopers" means exactly that, Rebel troopers.

 

Now, if you were to do as Rayla did and pick the 212th, or pick the 501st, or a Spec Ops division of a military, then yes, you could theoretically get support troops at the expense of fighting troops because we know precisely the ratios and abilities. However when you pick something as limited as "Killik Warriors" You simply don't.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

Which again, I think is ridiculous.

 

If you get the "Rebel Troopers" Great military force, you don't expect to have their spec ops, intelligence, marines etc in with the mix.

 

Beni, you need to think about the big picture not just this Kaggath. You made the new forces the way they are for the specific reason that you're forced to pick forces that aren't debatable in terms of units. IE, We all know exactly what Vehicles each faction has, we know that "Rebel Troopers" means exactly that, Rebel troopers.

 

Now, if you were to do as Rayla did and pick the 212th, or pick the 501st, or a Spec Ops division of a military, then yes, you could theoretically get support troops at the expense of fighting troops because we know precisely the ratios and abilities. However when you pick something as limited as "Killik Warriors" You simply don't.

But as I explained you do expect heavy weapons specialists, scouts, snipers etc. and you would get them, regardless of whether information is sufficient or not, we can't just erase support units because we don't have "sufficient".

 

That would be rather unfair don't you think? This what the Great Swarm comprised of, which is effectively the force Warren picked. Heck to single out anyone element would be totally arbitrary anyway, they were all important.

 

But since when do we possess that information anyway? I certainly don't. Again we are not playing a numbers game here, in fact half the time I skip numbers arguments. Its about what your units can do.

 

Also Star, concerning the Kolosok. While they are large that's just because the are the biological version of a rocket launcher, a grenade or a mine. Just likes these weapons they are how Killik infantry bust vehicles and other hard targets, or in this case particularly tenacious armoring. To remove them would therefore be to remove that capability.

 

Which would obviously place the EoP at a considerable disadvantage.

 

Anyway, Warren outlined all the warrior Killiks that made up the Great Swarm here:

 

Killik Warriors (Major Ground Force) – 2,304

 

Killik warriors are a vastly assorted and specialized ground force. Below are the types of killiks employed by AiR. Prolonged combat with killik warriors would expose enemies to enough pheromones to begin the Joining process.

 

Kolosolok

These killiks are gigantic, over fifty meters long by ten meters tall. They are capable of taking massiave amounts of damage due to their size and heavy armoring. They are especially adept at breaking through enemy fortifications.

 

Rekker

These killiks are highly energetic and well armored. They are particularly skilled at jumping long distances. They jump up walls and close long distances between armies.

 

Aebea

These killiks are only a meter long, making them small targets. They are flying warriors, able to cross long distances quickly with their wings.

 

Qeeq

These killiks are only the size of a human fist, making them small targets. They are flying warriors, able to cross long distances quickly with their wings.

 

Gorog

The Gorog Nest is the most warlike killik nest ever known and their soldiers are skilled fighters. Their signature strategy was to piece the skin or armor of their opponents and spit a highly corrosive brown acid into the wound.

 

Mollom

These killiks are skilled at tunneling and are often used to dig tunnels underneath enemy positions or to make secret passageways across battlegrounds.

 

Jooj

These killiks are less than an inch long, and would create swarms of millions. They are used as a weapon by the killiks, having them crawl under enemy armor and kill enemy soldiers via blood sucking.

 

Wuluw

These killiks are rather small and are used as long distance communications relays for killiks on the battlefield.

 

[Beniboybling]

Concerning this phlanx strategy, I just have one question, are they smart enough to pull it off? The IDD has no commander on the ground, and while as far as I can tell the P2s and P3s are highly intelligent. The P1s only had a basic intelligence, which for all we know could make them as smart as a battle droid.

[tausra]

Considering the Phalanx is one of the oldest and, until firearms, the most used military tactic I would assume that was their basic programming. To assume otherwise would be to assume their creator, who was beyond genius, didn't program his droids to be able to utilize their own capabilities efficiently. We all laugh at battle droids, but they had amazing programming, considering our own technological limitations.

 

I would object to anything being bigger than a human being considered "Ammunition" or a "weapon". 50 meters is a vehicle. Anything that can be ridden into battle should never be considered ammo or even a weapon; at the very least it should be looked at like a soldier. Though I'll be honest a 50 meter soldier is a huge stretch to even handwave.

 

As a matter of fact:

Kolosolok ... During the Swarm War, they were used as armored ground vehicles by the Killiks and were used to break through the Chiss' defensive fortifications during the last stages of the Battle of Tenupe.

Edited July 24, 2014 by tausra

[Beniboybling]

I would object to anything being bigger than a human being considered "Ammunition" or a "weapon". 50 meters is a vehicle. Anything that can be ridden into battle should never be considered ammo or even a weapon; at the very least it should be looked at like a soldier. Though I'll be honest a 50 meter soldier is a huge stretch to even handwave.

 

As a matter of fact:

Fair enough on the Kolosok, considering the Killiks do have blast bugs and the like.

[tausra]

Because we don't know exact numbers, I will write in terms of 1 on 1, 25 on 1, and 25 on 25 and assess each "breed" when compared to each Dark Trooper model.

 

Rekker

 

Description Provided: These killiks are highly energetic and well armored. They are particularly skilled at jumping long distances. They jump up walls and close long distances between armies.

 

Description From Wiki:

The denizens of the hive were 3 meters tall, extremely energetic and had hard natural armor. They were capable of jumping long distances to strike at their targets. As such, they were used to batter enemy fortifications and soldiers by the Killiks during the Swarm War.

Difference: No mention of the ability to jump off of, or up walls effectively.

 

Approximate Strength: 650

1 vs 1 Phase I: I would assume that they are approximately equal in strength when fighting without support.

25 vs 1 Phase I: Handily goes to the Rekker. The mobility alone outclasses the sword and shield of the Phase I.

25 vs 25 Phase I: Close fight. It the Rekker leaps into the phalanx, they will find themselves cut to shreds. If the Phalanx isn't careful, they could find their sides exposed and Killiks overwhelming them.

 

1 vs 1 Phase II: Dead before they jump. 400 round assault cannons that will eat a shielded human, let alone a carapace.

25 vs 1 Phase II: A fair fight. 540 rounds a minute, droid aim, and dumb fire missiles mean the swarm is shreds before they can disable the droid.

25 vs 25 Phase II: I think maybe 1 droid may have to reload, but I wouldn't expect more than one droid to suffer serious injuries.

 

1 vs 1 Phase III: Nothing but bug vapor.

25 vs 1 Phase III: Bugs on a windshield. Too many weaponry options to even hope to survive.

25 vs 25 Phase III: Again, the PIIIs are beyond even ambush tactics.

 

 

Aebea

 

Provided Description:These killiks are only a meter long, making them small targets. They are flying warriors, able to cross long distances quickly with their wings.

 

Wiki Description:

Aebea was a Killik hive. They were about a meter long, and were used during the Swarm War as airborne fighters. During the Cold War, the Human Joiner Vector Hyllus was taught by the Aebea how to suppress the pheromonic Joiner bond, allowing him to temporarily separate himself from the Colony hivemind.

Difference: None.

Approximate Strength: 650

1 vs 1 Phase I: With no mention of ranged weaponry, they have to close the distance. Up close and personal, the two may trade off one way or the other.

25 vs 1 Phase I: Too many to directly counter. PI may take one or two out in the process, but it will definitely lose the battle.

25 vs 25 Phase I: Again, assuming they aren't ambushed, this should be a close match. The Killik have to aim for exposed wires, the PI have to hit something organic.

 

1 vs 1 Phase II: Again, droid targetting and superior firepower will carry the PII to victory.

25 vs 1 Phase II: Phrik armor leaves very little exposed to take advantage of. A missile, or good aim, will simply speed up the PII's victory. However, overconfident droid behavior may mean the Killik's do some damage to vulnerable areas.

25 vs 25 Phase II: 25 droid aimed assault cannons will make lightning quick work of the swarm.

 

1 vs 1 Phase III: No contest.

25 vs 1 Phase III: Not even fair.

25 vs 25 Phase III: Don't.

 

 

Qeeq

 

Description Provided: These killiks are only the size of a human fist, making them small targets. They are flying warriors, able to cross long distances quickly with their wings.

Description From Wiki:

These killiks are only the size of a human fist, making them small targets. They are flying warriors, able to cross long distances quickly with their wings.

Difference: None. However there is zero other details. No strengths, weaknesses, details or anything.

 

Approximate Strength: Unguessable

1 vs 1 Phase I: The size of the Qeeq means they'll be punching at wires, if the droid can't handle himself.

25 vs 1 Phase I: The swarm will ruin the droid's day, as they will be too many for the droid to handle.

25 vs 25 Phase I: The swarm will sow chaos in the phalanx, though I doubt they would do much more than disabling the droids. If the frames were recovered they could be sent back into battle with little fuss.

 

1 vs 1 Phase II: With no mention of agility, and the advanced AI of the PII, the droid may waste a few rounds, but ultimately this is a foregone conclusion.

25 vs 1 Phase II: A target rich environment means the droid is more likely to hit something organic. If the bugs crawl in to the armor, i think they'd be killed while slowing up the works.

25 vs 25 Phase II: Equal numbers means the PIIs are more likely to just reach out and grab the bugs.

 

1 vs 1 Phase III: Too small to make a meaningful impact.

25 vs 1 Phase III: The Killik swarm would have to ambush the PIII, and even then, I don't think they'd do any lasting damage.

25 vs 25 Phase III: Again, no real chance to win.

 

 

Gorog

 

Provided Description: The Gorog Nest is the most warlike killik nest ever known and their soldiers are skilled fighters. Their signature strategy was to piece the skin or armor of their opponents and spit a highly corrosive brown acid into the wound.

 

Wiki Description:

The Dark Nest's soldiers were bluish in color and they fought by finding a way to pierce the skin, then spit out a highly acidic brownish poison. Certain breeds of Gorog were also noted for being Force-sensitive and had the capacity to shield their presence in the Force.

Difference: No mention of their quality as fighters. Disregarding all mention of their fighting prowess.

 

Approximate Strength: 650

1 vs 1 Phase I: Their listed talents do not counter the armor or the non-organic nature of the PI. All things considered, the two would very likely be an equal match.

25 vs 1 Phase I: As with anything, the PI is the loser when faced with more than one enemy.

25 vs 25 Phase I: Equal numbers means the fight can go either way, but, I favor the Killik in this fight.

 

1 vs 1 Phase II: The PII has range, which the Killik does not. The range factor alone, without even considering the power of their weapons.

25 vs 1 Phase II: Rapid fire weapons, range, and explosives. I would wager the PII would win 9 out of 10 engagements. The PII would likely lose an ambush.

25 vs 25 Phase II: Too many guns, too much range, unless the Killik can ambush the PII this fight is over before beginning.

 

1 vs 1 Phase III: Fried Bug.

25 vs 1 Phase III: If ambushed, the PIII is in trouble. The PIII cannons and weapons will decimate any killik that is unlucky enough to be in the way.

25 vs 25 Phase III: Even ambushed, this many PIIIs would overwhelm almost any force.

 

[karadron]

What does the IDD get for support personal? Edited July 24, 2014 by karadron

[Beniboybling]

Just like to point out that there are only 21 PIIIs