tunewalker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) I don't think they should be counted as military troops because clearly that would be unfair to the EoP, but I also don't think there should be an unlimitied amount of them that can solo any army with pure swarm.... If they were to be used as weapons then like weapons their numbers should be based on the number of troops you have.... my suggestion 15 for every 1 Killik that's my solution any way..... This would allow this swarm tactic to essentially be used like grenades for the killiks but it wouldn't end up with 1 "weapon" soloing the entire faction.... Edited July 23, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I don't think they should be counted as military troops because clearly that would be unfair to the EoP, but I also don't think there should be an unlimitied amount of them that can solo any army with pure swarm.... If they were to be used as weapons then like weapons their numbers should be based on the number of troops you have.... my suggestion 15 for every 1 Killik that's my solution any way..... In that case there would be roughly about 34,000 of them total based on troop numbers given by Beni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That being said, the AiR can still win. They know about Jerec, and whether or not they know that he is a Dark Jedi is irrelevant. There is another Dark Side User (well, two) on Taris, and Muur/Lomi will be able to sense it. And, knowing that they are not aligned with the AiR, they will quickly move to eliminate the other Sith. Finding Jerec is easy. The Voxyn hunt their prey through the Force. They will easily sniff out Jerec's location. Even if the Voxyn stay in the Underworld, they will be able to locate the building that Jerec is in. From here, the Mollom (killiks extremely skilled with tunneling) will drill up into the building, using Gorog salvia when necessary to break up the rock. Once the tunnel gains access to the building, the AiR can deploy their forces. Aebea and Qeeq killiks will fly up from of the Undercity to attack the building aerially. Rekker will quickly scale the building with leaps and bounds to attack the ground units guarding it. Jooj would be released up the tunnel into the building, creating swarms of millions of killiks less than an inch long. They would crawl under the armor of any biologicals and suck their blood dry, and do the same for the Dark Troopers, tearing apart their inner workings by slipping through cracks in their armor. Lomi Plo and the most promising of the Nekghouls would then enter the building as the battle with the killiks raged outside. Lomi Plo would simply suck the power out of any Dark Trooper they came across, or cut them to pieces with her energy web. Borborygmus Gog could come along, using his shi'dio shapeshifting to act as a scout or distraction. Eventually, Lomi Plo would reach the other Dark Sider: Jerec. His lackey is probably off fighting the killiks in a Phase II suit. Lomi would battle Jerec for a moment, then deactivate his lightsaber just as their blades are about to meet, and cut his arms off. Honestly, I think this is the likely scenario (minus the leadership battle, that should be discussed later). Forget infections, forget battles, Lomi Plo and the Killiks are going right for Jerec. Lomi can be patient, but I recall the Killiks heavily preferring swarm tactics to get at the objective quickly and overwhelm it with sheer numbers. The battle as a whole is a distraction for Lomi to get to Jerec. That's how I'm seeing it right now. @Silenceo: Start playing the IG-88 cards, dangnabit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 In that case there would be roughly about 34,000 of them total based on troop numbers given by Beni. Ya and they are 1 inch tall and require swarms to take anything down. They will get killed in the process of doing stuff thus there effectiveness will wain. It would be no different then using up grenades and then beginning to run low on ammo..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) That being said, the AiR can still win. They know about Jerec, and whether or not they know that he is a Dark Jedi is irrelevant. There is another Dark Side User (well, two) on Taris, and Muur/Lomi will be able to sense it. And, knowing that they are not aligned with the AiR, they will quickly move to eliminate the other Sith. For this piece I would wager they would be able to sense the area that Desann is in, but when trying to detect the second, Jerec, they would only get the cloud/broad area which does not help them much. Finding Jerec is easy. The Voxyn hunt their prey through the Force. They will easily sniff out Jerec's location. Even if the Voxyn stay in the Underworld, they will be able to locate the building that Jerec is in. From here, the Mollom (killiks extremely skilled with tunneling) will drill up into the building, using Gorog salvia when necessary to break up the rock. Once the tunnel gains access to the building, the AiR can deploy their forces. While the Voxyn's hunting abilities for force users is impressive, I am incredibly suspicious that they can get that exact of a location, when they are unable to even reach the middle city. Even if they were on the lower city it would be unlikely. For the purpose of the scenario however, let us assume they can smell them from the Undercity. They likely would location Desann first and foremost among the Dark Troopers and he is constantly moving with the troops. It would be more likely to just unleash the Voxyn at him. For the tunneling again, Jerec's presence is much like a cloud rather than a standard force users pin point of a presence. Even if they knew exactly which building he was in, it is very unlikely they could tunnel upwards unnoticed. They would likely be tunneling through ceilings/floors of apartments for a good deal of it, and in order to come out so close to the HQ or inside of it, they would have had to basically start right ontop of/bellow the IDD fortified checkpoints. Tunneling is unlikely to go unnoticed. Just reminding you though that very little of it is rock, at best it is duracrete or durasteel. Aebea and Qeeq killiks will fly up from of the Undercity to attack the building aerially. Rekker will quickly scale the building with leaps and bounds to attack the ground units guarding it. Jooj would be released up the tunnel into the building, creating swarms of millions of killiks less than an inch long. They would crawl under the armor of any biologicals and suck their blood dry, and do the same for the Dark Troopers, tearing apart their inner workings by slipping through cracks in their armor. I wager very few would make it all of the way due to the HQ's heavy defenses as well as the Tarisian defenses that are already in place. The ones who do make it would not make it past the front door due to over extension and lack of rakghoul hordes. I will admit however that the Jooj idea does have merit, though how small are they? I merely ask because Dark Trooper armor doesn't seem to have large gaps. Lomi Plo and the most promising of the Nekghouls would then enter the building as the battle with the killiks raged outside. Lomi Plo would simply suck the power out of any Dark Trooper they came across, or cut them to pieces with her energy web. Borborygmus Gog could come along, using his shi'dio shapeshifting to act as a scout or distraction. I actually highly doubt her energy web, force based or not, would do anything but immobilize a Dark Trooper due to their insane durability. Do keep in mind however if they have made it this far with Nekghouls and Lomi Plo, that their energy will begin feeding Jerec due to proximity. Draining the power however is likely very possible. Clever. *Though, if the attempt is a failure they could be recharged.* I was actually under the impression that Gog was on Byss... Ah well, not really sure how much good he will do that the other troops are not already providing though... Eventually, Lomi Plo would reach the other Dark Sider: Jerec. His lackey is probably off fighting the killiks in a Phase II suit. Lomi would battle Jerec for a moment, then deactivate his lightsaber just as their blades are about to meet, and cut his arms off. Something to note is that while Jerec has not had awesome showings such as surviving Luke, he does have a few tricks up his sleeve. These come in the way of his use of the force. He could pacify her as he did to Master Rahn, or simply use Force Destruction if she remains still for more than a second. Not to mention Lomi's own force powers will be weakened and Jerec's strengthened due to his innate ability to drain others of their force energy. As for the deactivating the light sabers trick, I highly doubt that will work due to Jerec's refined use of Makashi. Not to mention I find it likely that since he controls the environment that should the fight go on, he could easily deactivate the lights to take advantage of his Mirulaki sight. Jerec was no push over when it came to light saber combat either. A few good things to remember when dealing with Jerec personally: "Jerec was talented at reading minds; he was able to pry information even from actively resisting consciousnesses. He was able to probe Rahn's mind when the Jedi was captured and learn from him that Morgan Katarn had knowledge of the location of the Valley of the Jedi, even though Rahn was a Jedi Master attempting to keep the information secret. Nevertheless, Jerec penetrated Rahn's mental barriers and retrieved the information.[18][1] Other areas of particular power were telekinesis, in which he had great control, and in the defensive aspects of lightsaber fighting; Jerec's defense was a difficult one to penetrate." This shows that not only is his defensive abilities with a light saber pretty good, but that he was great at delving into an actively resisting opponents mind. Such a skill would swing the battle of many light saber duels. He would not fall for tricks nor feints, he would know what his opponent knew. Another exert concerning his force powers: "Jerec was proficient in other Force powers as well; he was capable of launching concentrated blasts of Force energy of the sort which he used to knock back Kyle Katarn on the Ruusan docking tower. More than a simple Force push, it emanated from his hand as a ball of red-tinged energy and impacted upon Katarn in a flash of light, driving him back. Jerec also mastered what may have been simply a stronger application of the same power: large blasts of devastating explosive Force energy which would not merely release kinetic force against an opponent but would deal heavy damage, badly wounding or killing the enemy. Jerec used another power which manifested itself as a ball of energy, though it had different effects, in disabling Rahn. The burst of energy struck Rahn and drove him to his knees while enveloping him in white light; it appeared to have a disabling or paralyzing effect." He has powers to fit many situations, he can disable, or he can kill. He can adapt, he has a vast knowledge of jedi and sith knowledge and all that comes with that. In terms of a force duel Jerec would be very likely to beat Lomi Plo. He was, after all, a High Inquisitor that was compared force wise very close to Darth Vader's own strength. Side Note: IG-88 makes a great Guard in regards to Jerec. He could easily operate the lifts as was previously stated while still ensuring Jerec's safety. And Aurbere, I am trying to not "over do" the whole IG-88 thing, when it is his time, he will kill intruders. Edited July 23, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Side Note: IG-88 makes a great Guard in regards to Jerec. He could easily operate the lifts as was previously stated while still ensuring Jerec's safety. And Aurbere, I am trying to not "over do" the whole IG-88 thing, when it is his time, he will kill intruders. Nah, send him down to the tunnels. He's basically a giant can of Raid. Side Note: I'll respond to the whole Jerec vs. Lomi Plo thing when we get down to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Nah, send him down to the tunnels. He's basically a giant can of Raid. Side Note: I'll respond to the whole Jerec vs. Lomi Plo thing when we get down to it. There are Dark Trooper raids...and then there are IG-88 raids... Side Note: what weapons do the Nekghouls use? I remember them using training sabers/ vibroblades in the game, but I am unsure if that is still the case. After Thought: IG-88 will for the most part be in the IDD base as an unknown lethal form of defense. Though, I am sure he would get sick of it and go down to terminate some bugs every now and then. Edited July 23, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Nah, send him down to the tunnels. He's basically a giant can of Raid. Side Note: I'll respond to the whole Jerec vs. Lomi Plo thing when we get down to it. He does have a gas dispenser. Fill that up with some Raid and the whole Killik armada is dead. Add to that a flamethrower and Jerec has some Killik burgers waiting for him downstairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 There are Dark Trooper raids...and then there are IG-88 raids... Side Note: what weapons do the Nekghouls use? I remember them using training sabers/ vibroblades in the game, but I am unsure if that is still the case. It's up to you where you put him. He's just too good for guard duty, in my opinion. Probably vibroblades and training swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 He does have a gas dispenser. Fill that up with some Raid and the whole Killik armada is dead. Add to that a flamethrower and Jerec has some Killik burgers waiting for him downstairs. Delicious...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) It's up to you where you put him. He's just too good for guard duty, in my opinion. Probably vibroblades and training swords. Think of it as the Last Line of Defense, on Steroids. Besides, while the Dark Troopers lack IG-88's firepower, there are many more of them and each of them, PII and PIII, are much more durable. Besides, the EoP does not know that IG-88 is even in the faction unless they can get inside the base. Side Note: The Kilik/Nekghouls open the door to the base as the battle rages outside...only to look down IG-88's barrels as he begins unleashing the gas/ flamethrower. Probably saying something insane like, "Extermination Protocols Engaged." Edited July 23, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 It's up to you where you put him. He's just too good for guard duty, in my opinion. Probably vibroblades and training swords. Yeah, I would say that the Nekghouls would have those two. I'd also like to say that they will probably be the most useless troops the EoP has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Yeah, I would say that the Nekghouls would have those two. I'd also like to say that they will probably be the most useless troops the EoP has. In this match up, yes. While they do have the force, that doesn't stop blaster bolts from impacting upon their bodies since they do not have light sabers to deflect them with nor the Kilik chitin. So it would essentially by the time of the base, be only Lomi Plo, and still an entire base to get through to reach Jerec. Not good odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 In this match up, yes. While they do have the force, that doesn't stop blaster bolts from impacting upon their bodies since they do not have light sabers to deflect them with nor the Kilik chitin. So it would essentially by the time of the base, be only Lomi Plo, and still an entire base to get through to reach Jerec. Not good odds. And then Jerec's secretary reveals that he isn't at the base, but is instead out to dinner and will be back at an undisclosed time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) And then Jerec's secretary reveals that he isn't at the base, but is instead out to dinner and will be back at an undisclosed time. IG-88 is the secretary silly. Though, the funny part is...that is actually possible... Food, smells, and sounds are things that Jerec loved to indulge. Other than hunting down and killing/turning jedi, it was what he loved to do the most. He had money but all he spent it on was extravagant food, music, and ect. Not to mention he didn't ever wait for the Empire to provide him with a ship, he always bought his own from his own pocket. IG-88: Your assassination attempt has failed, Jerec is currently out enjoying extravagant Tarisian delicacies. Have a nice day. *Flamethrower and bug spray* Edited July 23, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 IG-88 is the secretary silly. Though, the funny part is...that is actually possible... Food, smells, and sounds are things that Jerec loved to indulge. Other than hunting down and killing/turning jedi, it was what he loved to do the most. He had money but all he spent it on was extravagant food, music, and ect. Not to mention he didn't ever wait for the Empire to provide him with a ship, he always bought his own from his own pocket. IG-88: Your assassination attempt has failed, Jerec is currently out enjoying an extravagant Tarisian delicacies. Have a nice day. *Flamethrower and bug spray* Well poor IG-88. Just imagine having to do all of Jerec's paperwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I think I am going to go do some research on the killiks since I want to be fair here, I want to give some help to warren if I can.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Well poor IG-88. Just imagine having to do all of Jerec's paperwork. Not as hard as you would think, considering, you know, the entire faction is basically droids... Besides, Jerec was very...odd... When he was aboard his flagship he would often spend his down time constantly monitoring all frequencies. He loved to know everything that went on, on that vessel. He often used that to cause uneasiness in his subordinates so they knew he was superior and they could not hide anything from him. He loved his mental games. Edited July 23, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I think I am going to go do some research on the killiks since I want to be fair here, I want to give some help to warren if I can.... I can point you to my fairly balanced assessment of the Killiks. Here. And tausra's here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I can point you to my fairly balanced assessment of the Killiks. Here. And tausra's here neither of those go into the Killik clans enough and their specialized troops and what they bring to the table. The issue I have with that is it means all of their capabilities are not shown.... I believe this battle will actually be over quickly 1 way or another.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tausra Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Considering the massive number of Killik breeds I think knowing the numbers/percentages would go a long way. I mean we could wax poetic about how x or y breed will fare in combat, but knowing how many of those breeds are in play allows for actual strategic comparisons. The Little swarmers themselves illustrate my point, if there are 15 swarmers for every killik, the discussion will be different than if there are 10 to 1, or 20 to 1 ratios. Under normal circumstances we could approximate the numbers using known military troop systems, but no such data exists for a mass of Killik Hives sending just soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Considering the massive number of Killik breeds I think knowing the numbers/percentages would go a long way. I mean we could wax poetic about how x or y breed will fare in combat, but knowing how many of those breeds are in play allows for actual strategic comparisons. The Little swarmers themselves illustrate my point, if there are 15 swarmers for every killik, the discussion will be different than if there are 10 to 1, or 20 to 1 ratios. Under normal circumstances we could approximate the numbers using known military troop systems, but no such data exists for a mass of Killik Hives sending just soldiers. This is exactly why I did not do different breeds in my assessment of the Killiks. I took the 2,304 that are listed and did my analysis based off what is considered the average specimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Concerning Killik breed specifying ratios would be arbitrary so I'm not about to do that, neither can I endorse the number of Jooj given either. I'm just going to leave that at "lots." However we should not consider them to be any different from the ratios you would find in a standard infantry's support ranks. So the main force is most likely going to be Gorog warriors, with other units being brought in as an when they are needed. I am sure we can manage without specific numbers, its always important to not get too attached to figures and be capable of thinking generally. Also I actually got the figures wrong for the Killiks (incoming buff, brace yourself), it should be 3900, based on the numbers I acquired later on the Great Swarm, which I used to inform the no. of Massassi given to Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (incoming buff, brace yourself), OMG! That's so wierd, I've never seen you buff Warrens faction before! Like, you totally do it to everyone else but never her (Hint: It's opposite day) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 OMG! That's so wierd, I've never seen you buff Warrens faction before! Like, you totally do it to everyone else but never her (Hint: It's opposite day)*looks at watch* Its Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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