karadron Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Well, I guess we are assuming the Black Vulkars are just dead/moved/vacation, or something then... In that case I still think a patrol finding the base to be quite likely due to how close to the lifts the IDD would be using the base is located. I think the most likely explanation would be the gang split up into several smaller ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Well, I guess we are assuming the Black Vulkars are just dead/moved/vacation, or something then... In that case I still think a patrol finding the base to be quite likely due to how close to the lifts the IDD would be using the base is located. I agree. It's only a matter of time, provided the IDD maintains an offensive stance. Regarding an offensive stance, I don't see the IDD bringing their full force to bear when they get down into the lower city, undercity, and sewers. The vehicles are simply too big to fit down there. So you'll be relying on Dark Troopers for any offensive actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I agree. It's only a matter of time, provided the IDD maintains an offensive stance. Regarding an offensive stance, I don't see the IDD bringing their full force to bear when they get down into the lower city, undercity, and sewers. The vehicles are simply too big to fit down there. So you'll be relying on Dark Troopers for any offensive actions. This is why I brought up the possible use of the Swoop Tunnels. Could be used so that the Spider Droids could fire between the holes in the Lower City walls that we often saw, and the Enforcers could be used similar to an express system without worry of innocents. Not to mention they could likely retain control of the system themselves. Side Note: It has long been assumed that only the Dark Troopers would be used for patrolling the Lower City, and that Leviathans are too big to easily move up in the city levels. After Thought: The size limitations are both a boon and a curse. A curse due to unable to use any vehicles in the majority of the Lower City. A boon, because it also means the EoP will have a lot harder time swarming the Dark Troopers. Edited July 22, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Well, I guess we are assuming the Black Vulkars are just dead/moved/vacation, or something then... In that case I still think a patrol finding the base to be quite likely due to how close to the lifts the IDD would be using the base is located.For the purposes of the Kaggath, they are non-existent. That includes their base. But that doesn't mean they are not other ways into the sewers, this route proves that there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) That includes their base. Wait, WHAT?! #83 All strongholds and military bases or anything similar are permitted for use. The Black Vulkas base was very much likened to a miltiary base in Canino's previous post. They were portrayed in that post as basically the underworld mafia *disagree...* but in that imagine and in the game, their Base is heavier fortified than the official governments. That, in my eyes, make it a Stronghold. Edited July 22, 2014 by Silenceo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 Wait, WHAT?! I second that motion. Terrain is terrain you can't take out a part of a building and act like it was never there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 This is why I brought up the possible use of the Swoop Tunnels. Could be used so that the Spider Droids could fire between the holes in the Lower City walls that we often saw, and the Enforcers could be used similar to an express system without worry of innocents. Not to mention they could likely retain control of the system themselves. Side Note: It has long been assumed that only the Dark Troopers would be used for patrolling the Lower City, and that Leviathans are too big to easily move up in the city levels. After Thought: The size limitations are both a boon and a curse. A curse due to unable to use any vehicles in the majority of the Lower City. A boon, because it also means the EoP will have a lot harder time swarming the Dark Troopers. That's possible. Leviathans are big and fast, but I'm not sure how they'll move between levels. I guess they could just force their way through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 That's possible. Leviathans are big and fast, but I'm not sure how they'll move between levels. I guess they could just force their way through. I encourage them to try. With how easily the location of their emergence would be, not to mention their restricted movement, the Spider droids could easily focus down its head with their precision lasers. Side Note: edited my previous post, but once it was updated otehrs were posted. Just thought I should point it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 22, 2014 Author Share Posted July 22, 2014 Wait, WHAT?! #83 All strongholds and military bases or anything similar are permitted for use. The Black Vulkas base was very much likened to a miltiary base in Canino's previous post. They were portrayed in that post as basically the underworld mafia *disagree...* but in that imagine and in the game, their Base is heavier fortified than the official governments. That, in my eyes, make it a Stronghold.OK, you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 OK, you win. *Heart attack caused by disbelief* I won an argument for once? Well, that is new... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I encourage them to try. With how easily the location of their emergence would be, not to mention their restricted movement, the Spider droids could easily focus down its head with their precision lasers. Side Note: edited my previous post, but once it was updated otehrs were posted. Just thought I should point it out. Snipe 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 OK, you win. I uhh.... what? Totally screen-shotting, and favoriting this thead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenceo Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I uhh.... what? Totally screen-shotting, and favoriting this thead. Make that post your desktop image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I think this terrain really Favors the IDD for defense. Getting the masses up each level will prove more and more difficult. I mean the villages in the Undercity stayed pretty safe from the Rakghoul disease as it was, but the upper levels were barely even noticing it since it was such an impossible task for an infecty to get up that high. The difficulty lies in getting down there and getting to murr more so then defending the upper areas... especially with how much range firepower the IDD has vs the EoP, though the EoP does have some its not on the same scale.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tausra Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Which is why I would hazard Muur has to take the offensive if he wishes to have a chance at winning. Disease won't win this fight for Muur, so his forces have to go on the aggressive early action. He can kill the entire population of Taris, and his own troops will starve. So long as Jerec can secure food for four people, the IDD can keep chugging along. Aggressive Leviathan use is discouraged; every hole they make is a new one the IDD can shoot through. In the lower and Under City the PIs will be absolutely lethal, using phalanx formation with a single PII taking ranged shots at anything that tries to out-range the PI shields and swords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I do question Beni's reasoning for this pairing, if he was trying to make these first Kaggaths as even of match-ups as possible. And no, I'm not about to rant about how the AiR would steamroll the IDD. The large fighter compliment. The point-defense turrets. The un-infectability of IDD troops. The need for massive amounts of firepower, that the AiR simply doesn't have, to take down phrik. The near uselessness of the Leviathans against IDD infantry. The extremely disadvantageous position of the AiR in the Undercity. The odds are stacked against AiR. The IDD has a counter for every one of its strengths, and strengths to manipulate every one of its weaknesses. (Good job with the faction, by the way, Silenceo) I did ask Beni before this began, knowing that there would be droid factions, to not put me up against one, at least the first round, so I could show of what my faction can do. I didn't expect my request to change anything, but this is the reason why. When facing a droid faction with AiR, it's a slaughter. And not a bloodless one. I am seriously bummed out that my faction has to fight a losing battle. Because honestly, if I were looking at this from the outside, I'd place my bets on the IDD. Beni, I realize that putting the AiR against a biological faction would probably have given an unfair advantage to the AiR. But I still can't get over how eerily perfect the IDD is for defeating the AiR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I do question Beni's reasoning for this pairing, if he was trying to make these first Kaggaths as even of match-ups as possible. And no, I'm not about to rant about how the AiR would steamroll the IDD. The large fighter compliment. The point-defense turrets. The un-infectability of IDD troops. The need for massive amounts of firepower, that the AiR simply doesn't have, to take down phrik. The near uselessness of the Leviathans against IDD infantry. The extremely disadvantageous position of the AiR in the Undercity. The odds are stacked against AiR. The IDD has a counter for every one of its strengths, and strengths to manipulate every one of its weaknesses. (Good job with the faction, by the way, Silenceo) I did ask Beni before this began, knowing that there would be droid factions, to not put me up against one, at least the first round, so I could show of what my faction can do. I didn't expect my request to change anything, but this is the reason why. When facing a droid faction with AiR, it's a slaughter. And not a bloodless one. I am seriously bummed out that my faction has to fight a losing battle. Because honestly, if I were looking at this from the outside, I'd place my bets on the IDD. Beni, I realize that putting the AiR against a biological faction would probably have given an unfair advantage to the AiR. But I still can't get over how eerily perfect the IDD is for defeating the AiR. I think AiR is either an easy win or devastating loss faction with no good in between. The planet as well was not the best battlefield for it either. If it was taking place a world that did not have the tight places that Taris has the overall outcome might be a whole lot closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That being said, the AiR can still win. They know about Jerec, and whether or not they know that he is a Dark Jedi is irrelevant. There is another Dark Side User (well, two) on Taris, and Muur/Lomi will be able to sense it. And, knowing that they are not aligned with the AiR, they will quickly move to eliminate the other Sith. Finding Jerec is easy. The Voxyn hunt their prey through the Force. They will easily sniff out Jerec's location. Even if the Voxyn stay in the Underworld, they will be able to locate the building that Jerec is in. From here, the Mollom (killiks extremely skilled with tunneling) will drill up into the building, using Gorog salvia when necessary to break up the rock. Once the tunnel gains access to the building, the AiR can deploy their forces. Aebea and Qeeq killiks will fly up from of the Undercity to attack the building aerially. Rekker will quickly scale the building with leaps and bounds to attack the ground units guarding it. Jooj would be released up the tunnel into the building, creating swarms of millions of killiks less than an inch long. They would crawl under the armor of any biologicals and suck their blood dry, and do the same for the Dark Troopers, tearing apart their inner workings by slipping through cracks in their armor. Lomi Plo and the most promising of the Nekghouls would then enter the building as the battle with the killiks raged outside. Lomi Plo would simply suck the power out of any Dark Trooper they came across, or cut them to pieces with her energy web. Borborygmus Gog could come along, using his shi'dio shapeshifting to act as a scout or distraction. Eventually, Lomi Plo would reach the other Dark Sider: Jerec. His lackey is probably off fighting the killiks in a Phase II suit. Lomi would battle Jerec for a moment, then deactivate his lightsaber just as their blades are about to meet, and cut his arms off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I do question Beni's reasoning for this pairing, if he was trying to make these first Kaggaths as even of match-ups as possible. And no, I'm not about to rant about how the AiR would steamroll the IDD. The large fighter compliment. The point-defense turrets. The un-infectability of IDD troops. The need for massive amounts of firepower, that the AiR simply doesn't have, to take down phrik. The near uselessness of the Leviathans against IDD infantry. The extremely disadvantageous position of the AiR in the Undercity. The odds are stacked against AiR. The IDD has a counter for every one of its strengths, and strengths to manipulate every one of its weaknesses. (Good job with the faction, by the way, Silenceo) I did ask Beni before this began, knowing that there would be droid factions, to not put me up against one, at least the first round, so I could show of what my faction can do. I didn't expect my request to change anything, but this is the reason why. When facing a droid faction with AiR, it's a slaughter. And not a bloodless one. I am seriously bummed out that my faction has to fight a losing battle. Because honestly, if I were looking at this from the outside, I'd place my bets on the IDD. Beni, I realize that putting the AiR against a biological faction would probably have given an unfair advantage to the AiR. But I still can't get over how eerily perfect the IDD is for defeating the AiR. It sucks having your faction's advantages taken away from you, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That being said, the AiR can still win. They know about Jerec, and whether or not they know that he is a Dark Jedi is irrelevant. There is another Dark Side User (well, two) on Taris, and Muur/Lomi will be able to sense it. And, knowing that they are not aligned with the AiR, they will quickly move to eliminate the other Sith. Finding Jerec is easy. The Voxyn hunt their prey through the Force. They will easily sniff out Jerec's location. Even if the Voxyn stay in the Underworld, they will be able to locate the building that Jerec is in. From here, the Mollom (killiks extremely skilled with tunneling) will drill up into the building, using Gorog salvia when necessary to break up the rock. Once the tunnel gains access to the building, the AiR can deploy their forces. Aebea and Qeeq killiks will fly up from of the Undercity to attack the building aerially. Rekker will quickly scale the building with leaps and bounds to attack the ground units guarding it. Jooj would be released up the tunnel into the building, creating swarms of millions of killiks less than an inch long. They would crawl under the armor of any biologicals and suck their blood dry, and do the same for the Dark Troopers, tearing apart their inner workings by slipping through cracks in their armor. Lomi Plo and the most promising of the Nekghouls would then enter the building as the battle with the killiks raged outside. Lomi Plo would simply suck the power out of any Dark Trooper they came across, or cut them to pieces with her energy web. Borborygmus Gog could come along, using his shi'dio shapeshifting to act as a scout or distraction. Eventually, Lomi Plo would reach the other Dark Sider: Jerec. His lackey is probably off fighting the killiks in a Phase II suit. Lomi would battle Jerec for a moment, then deactivate his lightsaber just as their blades are about to meet, and cut his arms off. I'm going to say that AiR does not have millions of Killiks at its disposal, even if they are tiny. Since I don't know how support troops add in to troop count I am going to say that there are only about 2,304 - 5,000 Killiks TOTAL at AiRs disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm going to say that AiR does not have millions of Killiks at its disposal, even if they are tiny. Since I don't know how support troops add in to troop count I am going to say that there are only about 2,304 - 5,000 Killiks TOTAL at AiRs disposal. I went over this with Beni beforehand (again he was the one who brought it to my attention) and the Jooj are used as a weapon by the killiks, and don't count towards troop numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I went over this with Beni beforehand (again he was the one who brought it to my attention) and the Jooj are used as a weapon by the killiks, and don't count towards troop numbers. then they need to be used as weapons not as troops yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren-Stride Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 then they need to be used as weapons not as troops yes? Yes...? Were they not used as a weapon on the scenario I mentioned them in? They're not something you fire out of a blaster.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Yes...? Were they not used as a weapon on the scenario I mentioned them in? They're not something you fire out of a blaster.... looked like swarm tactic army to me. But that's just me I guess. I just don't see the "weapon" part unless you count everything with fists and claws as a "weapon" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karadron Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Yes...? Were they not used as a weapon on the scenario I mentioned them in? They're not something you fire out of a blaster.... They don't seem to act like weapons but rather soldiers in that scenario. And rather in almost every scenario I can think of they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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