Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Empire of Plagues vs Imperial Droid Division

[Silenceo]

Something I should point out: Leviathans like to eat, I mean REALLY like to eat, once the under city is nom nom'd and the leviathans get stuck, know what happens? the other EoP forces get put on the menu.

 

Even if they do try to tear through the city to climb higher, it hardly would go unnoticed. Quite easy to set traps, mines, ect in its path and have the Spider Droids ready to use precision lasers on its head once it emerges.

[tausra]

My initial assessment is up. Researching and working, so the second half is taking longer than I'd like.

[Warren-Stride]

And on that note, I want to direct a question to Warren.

 

Are the Killiks in your force those seen in the Dark Nest Trilogy? If so, do you think they will primarily use swarm tactics? (That's how I remember them from the books)

 

Correct on both accounts.

[Warren-Stride]

Something I should point out: Leviathans like to eat, I mean REALLY like to eat, once the under city is nom nom'd and the leviathans get stuck, know what happens? the other EoP forces get put on the menu.

 

The Leviathans are under the control of Muur. He's not going to let them eat his other Forces. And these things are Sith Spawn. They're not natural creatures. Although they "like" to eat to absorb knowledge and whatnot, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't actually need to eat to survive.

[Warren-Stride]

Will update when I can. I am at work after all.

 

Well I guess we know whose side you're on.

[Warren-Stride]

Nekghouls cannot infect victims, severely limiting their capabilities. They are also their own separate species, meaning the Muur Talisman should have no effect on them.

 

I noted that they could not infect people in my initial faction break down. That doesn't decrease their effectiveness... it just keeps them from doing what thousands of other rakghouls are already doing.

 

Nekghouls, unlike rakghouls, are sentient, larger, stand upright, and are Force Sensitive. Under the training of Muur, the nekghouls could quickly learn to harness their inherited Dark Side tendencies. Additionally, exposure to the Muur Talisman would increase their power exponentially. Skilled and fierce warriors, both for their natural endurance and their ferocity, nekghouls are intimidating warriors. Strangely enough, they cannot infect others with the rakghoul plague.

 

However, the nekghoul are still rakghouls. I see no reason why the Muur Talisman wouldn't work on them. And even if it doesn't, they're loyal to their master, Muur. Likely, the nekghouls will gain power (just like the other rakghouls do) when exposed to the Muur Talisman. Additionally, a little training from Muur or Lomi could go a long way in unlocking some of that stored potential.

[Warren-Stride]

The Hive made things up as they went, deciding from the myriad of memories and thoughts, which one made the most sense. If Warren is capable of creating a Hive on planet, the more people Joined to them means the more likely things start going wrong. For example, a simple 4 digit passcode lost amid all the memories of passcodes that the Hive has collected. Was it 5549 or 4451, or 3367, or 9123, or 0001, repeated as many times as they have joiners. Considering the lack of a Hive as a supplier, I doubt the Killiks could make much headway anyways.

 

I'm disappointed that you cut out the end of this quote.

 

As a result, they were noted for holding a highly muddled sense of history.

 

Obviously the killiks were capable of remembering basic facts. Otherwise, if this is as you suggest, you would see killik warriors trying to brush hair they don't have but a human joiner does. What you are really talking about is when multiple joiners have multiple interpretations of an event. However, it's rather strange for you to say that the killiks cannot remember anything at all. One might wonder how they ever functioned. Why'd the Dark Nest Crisis happen if the killiks constantly couldn't remember who they were fighting against? How did the killiks fly fighters if they were constantly mixing up the controls with those of other types of starships?

 

Your assessment here is a bit overblown.

 

And on the chitin shell, Chitin armor is made out of the same biological material as killik exoskeletons, and was resistant to energy damage.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Warren-Stride]

They need to be controlled, or they revert to their animalistic nature, eating anything and everything. Thye also do not function beyond the basic senses, meaning a killik, a joiner, a rakghoul, or a nekghoul is as likely to be eaten as a civilian. Droids, which are not food, would not register as a target for the same reason as lions don't go around eating trees.

 

Commanding the Leviathans is as easy as saying "go eat that Sith guy Jerec" and just watching them do their thing.

[Warren-Stride]

Final thoughts on EoP Ground Forces: Muur and other force users are going to have to focus on controlling their own troops at all times. Moments of exhaustion, or hours of rest will vastly decrease the fighting efficiency of their soldiers. These moments of leadership rest would likely end with Leviathans eating other soldiers, Killiks pheromone brain-washing their own troops, and rakghouls being little more than crazed cannibals. Vornskyr early on will be doing a great deal of damage as directed, but over time they will wear out. If the EoP opts for an attrition strategy they will have to contend with dwindling resources, and the eventual effects of the Killik pheromones clouding everyone's judgment. Oh, and the huge hunger of the Leviathans.

 

The Muur Talisman had other-worldly effects on its holder. They stopped aging. Muur himself was an expert at Force Healing, and the whole thing about the Force sustaining has never been more true. Muur's rest periods will be few and far in-between, and obviously fighting will not be happening 24/7.

 

Like I said, Leviathans don't have to be constantly commanded, give them a target and send them at it. This is like saying a droid has to constantly be sent the signal "don't shut down don't shut down don't shut down" if they don't want to shut down. Killiks can't brainwash the AiR's troops... none of them are humanoid. Rakghouls aren't that "crazy" if you remember from KOTOR/SWTOR, when not faced with prey they're quite docile. They didn't tear each other apart.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Selenial]

Warren-Stride - Taking triple post to a whole new meaning!

[Warren-Stride]

Warren-Stride - Taking triple post to a whole new meaning!

 

#doupletriplepost

#noragrets

#noshame

[Beniboybling]

See the Quote by Warren on how capable the Rakghouls are. In short, as admitted they "Lack Sentient Thought", implying that to be anything more than beasts the 'ghouls need to be directed by a focusing Muur.

Rakghouls only truly reached their full potential, however, when under the power of the Muur Talisman. When a being possessed the Muur Talisman, they were able to enslave the rakghouls to their will, and command them as an army with the potential for nearly infinite expansion.

 

--Wookieepedia.

 

I expect they will require constant orders, but not a constant connection.

[Beniboybling]

...This means the Kilik forces are restricted to a single type of soldier, not the massive variety as Warren insinuated in the first post...

That's actually not the case:

 

#108 Any infantry unit you choose comes with all its immediate support units e.g. Stormtroopers provide Scout troopers, Jumptroopers, and will be deployed in the necessary variation e.g. Snowtroopers if in an artic climate. As well as all command units from the lowest rank to Commander, though they must be directly affiliated.

 

In this case this would allow for all the different variations of Killik, as you can imagine this was discussed prior.

 

P.S. Presenting only the negatives of one side and stacking them up against the positives of another side while does contain valid information is obviously going to reach invalid conclusions. Just a bit of advice.

 

I still await a proper comparison of ground troops from someone.

 

P.P.S. The Vong shapers should I assume be able to supply the nutrient the Voxyn need.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

Just curious, why are we allowing the Muur talisman?

 

I'm not saying take it away, if Beni allowed it then it can be on his head, but to my recollection Kun was never given any of his Amulets, and if he was that might have made a rather large difference.

[Selenial]

P.S. Presenting only the negatives of one side and stacking them up against the positives of another side while does contain valid information is obviously going to reach invalid conclusions. Just a bit of advice.

 

Why should she do a proper analysis if she wants to support Silenceo though, anyone supporting the EoP can do their analysis, then just combo Tausra's and theirs.

 

'Cause if she's supporting Silenceo, doing a rundown that highlights the advantages of the EoP is pretty detrimental

[Beniboybling]

Just curious, why are we allowing the Muur talisman?

 

I'm not saying take it away, if Beni allowed it then it can be on his head, but to my recollection Kun was never given any of his Amulets, and if he was that might have made a rather large difference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI&t=6m35s

 

#25 Members of leadership only retain their influence e.g. contacts, access, knowledge. They also have access to personal weapons and vehicles such as speeders or starships – though nothing that could be classed as a capital ship or tank/walker etc.

 

I would class the Muur Talisman as a "personal weapon", so it is allowed. And yes Kun would have had that gauntlet.

[Beniboybling]

Why should she do a proper analysis if she wants to support Silenceo though, anyone supporting the EoP can do their analysis, then just combo Tausra's and theirs.

 

'Cause if she's supporting Silenceo, doing a rundown that highlights the advantages of the EoP is pretty detrimental

Cause what I said.

 

For example. Dog vs Cat.

 

Dogs are big and have sharp teeth, cats are smaller. Dog therefore wins.

 

That is not an argument as to why a dog can beat a cat, that's a rhetorical device that deceives the reader.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI&t=6m35s

 

#25 Members of leadership only retain their influence e.g. contacts, access, knowledge. They also have access to personal weapons and vehicles such as speeders or starships – though nothing that could be classed as a capital ship or tank/walker etc.

 

I would class the Muur Talisman as a "personal weapon", so it is allowed. And yes Kun would have had that gauntlet.

 

Lol, did anyone ever bring up the Kun thing? Cause I don't remember, but that might have made up some of the point differences and made the leadership duel tip in his favor...

 

But I don't know, it's over now.

[karadron]

Lol, did anyone ever bring up the Kun thing? Cause I don't remember, but that might have made up some of the point differences and made the leadership duel tip in his favor...

 

But I don't know, it's over now.

 

I don't think anyone did.

[Aurbere]

Correct on both accounts.

 

Interesting. Well, I suppose we shouldn't expect a ton of sophistication out of them. Just extreme violence. It seems to me that they'll primarily attempt to overwhelm through sheer weight of numbers.

[Darksaberexile]

Could the EoP create additional strains of the Rakghoul virus, similar to what Doctor Lorrick does in swtor?

[Beniboybling]

Could the EoP create additional strains of the Rakghoul virus, similar to what Doctor Lorrick does in swtor?

Its certainly possible, however that would take time.

[Silenceo]

Just want to clarify this. Does the EoP know Jerec is a Dark Jedi? I ask simply because up until the very last few years of his life, he kept the fact he was even force sensitive a secret.

[tausra]

However, the nekghoul are still rakghouls. I see no reason why the Muur Talisman wouldn't work on them. And even if it doesn't, they're loyal to their master, Muur. Likely, the nekghouls will gain power (just like the other rakghouls do) when exposed to the Muur Talisman. Additionally, a little training from Muur or Lomi could go a long way in unlocking some of that stored potential.

 

Training takes time. Which will also detract from the Command time of the leadership.

 

Obviously the killiks were capable of remembering basic facts. Otherwise, if this is as you suggest, you would see killik warriors trying to brush hair they don't have but a human joiner does. What you are really talking about is when multiple joiners have multiple interpretations of an event. However, it's rather strange for you to say that the killiks cannot remember anything at all. One might wonder how they ever functioned. Why'd the Dark Nest Crisis happen if the killiks constantly couldn't remember who they were fighting against? How did the killiks fly fighters if they were constantly mixing up the controls with those of other types of starships?

 

Your assessment here is a bit overblown.

 

And on the chitin shell, Chitin armor is made out of the same biological material as killik exoskeletons, and was resistant to energy damage.

 

On the memory point, what I was trying to say is that the Hive is constantly editing it's own memories. It does not know how, or what the source is, of their sensory information. There is no individual, therefore things like personal passcodes may be beyond their comprehension as they have no idea who an individual might be. For you and I it is as simple as thinking for a moment and recalling the password. For the Hive, they have to sort through a dozen memories of personal passwords, without reference to the individual. Imagine for a moment how hard that might be.

 

On the Armor note, chitin armor is from a game and the reference is to its' in game effects. We have no information on what sort of reinforcements were made in the manufacturing process. But, having played SWG I can comment on it being passable, and only mildly resistant, like wearing a coat to resist the cold of winter.

 

The Muur Talisman had other-worldly effects on its holder. They stopped aging. Muur himself was an expert at Force Healing, and the whole thing about the Force sustaining has never been more true. Muur's rest periods will be few and far in-between, and obviously fighting will not be happening 24/7.

Stopping aging says nothing about not needing a break now and again. You also can't Force heal without some effort either. THe Rakghouls require at the very least some token extension of thought to maintain any sort of order. If you're aiming for 6 billion, you can bet your last credit fighting will be near constant. Exhaustion is just part of the deal.

 

That's actually not the case:

 

#108 Any infantry unit you choose comes with all its immediate support units e.g. Stormtroopers provide Scout troopers, Jumptroopers, and will be deployed in the necessary variation e.g. Snowtroopers if in an artic climate. As well as all command units from the lowest rank to Commander, though they must be directly affiliated.

 

In this case this would allow for all the different variations of Killik, as you can imagine this was discussed prior.

 

P.S. Presenting only the negatives of one side and stacking them up against the positives of another side while does contain valid information is obviously going to reach invalid conclusions. Just a bit of advice.

 

I still await a proper comparison of ground troops from someone.

 

P.P.S. The Vong shapers should I assume be able to supply the nutrient the Voxyn need.

The rule allows for support troops and other troops needed to for the average unit to function in any situation. The Average Nest does not have access to the specialized units of other Nests, as they were not necessary for that Nest's warriors to function. I understand that the decision has arbitrarily been made, I disagree, but then again disagreeing with almost every decision this match is par for the course.

 

You can disagree with my assessment all you want, but I used the information found on the wiki. It is not my fault that the dark trooper, and the droids, has more information available. I dislike making baseless guesses, so i simply recite the information I uncover and interpret how it might influence the fight. I'll admit I'm a little insulted at the insinuation, but that would also be par for the course.

 

Cause what I said.

 

For example. Dog vs Cat.

 

Dogs are big and have sharp teeth, cats are smaller. Dog therefore wins.

 

That is not an argument as to why a dog can beat a cat, that's a rhetorical device that deceives the reader.

I never compared each unit to the other. I simply said, using your stunningly insightful Strawman, "Dog Is big, has sharp teeth. Runs in packs and loves bacon. Cat is vague. Most wiki articles relating to cat are only stubs. Without guessing, Cat has fur, has claws and likes milk." Again, insulting comment is insulting.

Edited July 21, 2014 by tausra

[Beniboybling]

Just want to clarify this. Does the EoP know Jerec is a Dark Jedi? I ask simply because up until the very last few years of his life, he kept the fact he was even force sensitive a secret.

I guess not, considering the rule and all. But what did people think he was? Edited July 21, 2014 by Beniboybling