Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Empire of Plagues vs Imperial Droid Division

[Selenial]

I can just imagine it so well though... they grapple after seeing each other and each bite the other, separating to watch the effects...Only...nothing happens to either...I am sure both would be having a *what the hell...* kind of moment.

 

Side Note: Lock down the lifts from to lower city to the middle or upper city, and the IDD can merely watch via video screens.

 

I think the Plague would infect the Rakghoul, it's a Force Sensitive plague, it'd probably fight off the Rakghoul Virus in the blood stream and just pwnz it, making the Rakghoul a Zombie Rakghoul

[Silenceo]

I think the Plague would infect the Rakghoul, it's a Force Sensitive plague, it'd probably fight off the Rakghoul Virus in the blood stream and just pwnz it, making the Rakghoul a Zombie Rakghoul

 

So was, originally, the Rakghoul plague. Do you see my dilemma?

[Nalathemaster]

So was, originally, the Rakghoul plague. Do you see my dilemma?

 

Just lock the undercity down, Problem solved

[Silenceo]

Just reminding everyone that Taris has had Rakghouls beneath its city for a long time before, it likely had a few upgrades when it initially broke out to protect the upper levels. Such precautions would be enforced and strengthened by the IDD.

[Beniboybling]

2. If not released, yes, the IDD will steal it from Byss and release it.

 

3. Not really, the infection spreads rapidly, especially if, as you said, it goes in the water. And think about it, there's zombies in a hundred square miles of the City, no more people, but there's people below them. Do the zombies in the middle of this Zone just walk all the way to find more people? No, they'd starve, so they go down.

 

4. Yeh I always get those two confused :/ But anyway, the further down in Taris the more dense the population is, you get that impression during Kotor when everyone complains about the Upper city, the Lower city has smaller apartments all crammed together etc. Also, every species that's not human would be on the Lower city.

 

And to be honest, the Zombies could probably survive a fall from the Upper city to the Under city. If not, they could at least survive a jump down an elevator shaft, or, you know... Use the stairs?

1. That will take time, Byss is in the Deep Core, Taris is in the Outer Rim. By the time they get there and back the Kaggath could well be over, the Upper City will definitely be infected.

 

2. Sure, but then they have to burn through the Middle City (yes there is one) and then they have to burn through the Lower City. All these "cities" of course having multiple layers, they'll have to burn through each one of them.

 

Then the finally get the the Undercity like what, a year later?

 

3. But no zombie is going to be like "hey lets go the Undercity were no food just killzones!"

 

Yeah guess I bet there are like only 100 steps or something.

[Beniboybling]

Just reminding everyone that Taris has had Rakghouls beneath its city for a long time before, it likely had a few upgrades when it initially broke out to protect the upper levels. Such precautions would be enforced and strengthened by the IDD.

But remember the Legacy of Torment is still sitting in space, load it up with viruses them launch them down on Yorik-tremas. Viral bombardment. And yes that is allowed.

[Selenial]

But remember the Legacy of Torment is still sitting in space, load it up with viruses them launch them down on Yorik-tremas. Viral bombardment. And yes that is allowed.

 

Well that's ridiculous...

 

But that's a fair point, are those turrets that were in place to kill Rakghouls still there?

 

[Silenceo]

1. That will take time, Byss is in the Deep Core, Taris is in the Outer Rim. By the time they get there and back the Kaggath could well be over, the Upper City will definitely be infected.

 

2. Sure, but then they have to burn through the Middle City (yes there is one) and then they have to burn through the Lower City. All these "cities" of course having multiple layers, they'll have to burn through each one of them.

 

Then the finally get the the Undercity like what, a year later?

 

3. But no zombie is going to be like "hey lets go the Undercity were no food just killzones!"

 

Yeah guess I bet there are like only 100 steps or something.

 

There is one issue with your train of thought beni. All citizens drink water every day. If the water supply is contaminated...it wouldn't be years, it would be days. The IDD, due to Jerec's love of exotic foods and drinks, would have brought his own, even his own cook. Seriously, food and music were the only things he enjoy other than hunting down Jedi and executing them, heck, it was the very first thing he did after killing Master Rahn...

 

Also, kill zones if I remember right have been setup to contain this exact plague before by storm troopers, and they were still infected. If nothing else, limited ammo...So even if the Plague fails, low ammo against the IDD which has locked down the lifts to the Upper City? Good Luck.

[Silenceo]

But remember the Legacy of Torment is still sitting in space, load it up with viruses them launch them down on Yorik-tremas. Viral bombardment. And yes that is allowed.

 

I call 1000000000% BS on this. You disallowed ALL orbital bombardment or any instance of space forces harming forces on the ground, the only exception being the flying Basalisk droids in the match before. This would be violating that exact rule. Also, if it were to attempt that, it would do more harm than good. What do you think the Vong would load them in? Organic material? Oh, I wonder if it would then infect the gun...then the hull...then the ship...not to mention the IDD would still not be infected.

 

So go ahead, beak the rule, bombard the planet with virus, just killed your Flagship and all personal on it. Leaving the IDD able to easily finish it off as well as take space superiority to finish the ground war with influx of reinforcements.

[Beniboybling]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7467504&postcount=79

 

 

Thats all I have to say about the Isard virus (IE it was a mistake to allow that)

/sigh.

[Beniboybling]

I call 1000000000% BS on this. You disallowed ALL orbital bombardment or any instance of space forces harming forces on the ground, the only exception being the flying Basalisk droids in the match before. This would be violating that exact rule. Also, if it were to attempt that, it would do more harm than good. What do you think the Vong would load them in? Organic material? Oh, I wonder if it would then infect the gun...then the hull...then the ship...not to mention the IDD would still not be infected.

 

So go ahead, beak the rule, bombard the planet with virus, just killed your Flagship and all personal on it. Leaving the IDD able to easily finish it off as well as take space superiority to finish the ground war with influx of reinforcements.

Lol, I used the term bombardment in jest, all that is being done here is landing troops. Landing troops is OK even if they are falling from the sky. Clearly does not have anything to do with actual bombardment. Drop pods are allowed.

 

Or are we to disallow the EoP's sole means of landing troops? Any more nerf/bans people want to throw at Warren?

 

Seriously though, calm down. I expect better from you.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

I expect better from you.

 

Yeh, he expects this crap from me but not you Silenceo!

 

[tunewalker]

/sigh.

 

"Think about it. In Star Wars the Super weapons are things that could devistate the galaxy if no one did anything about them and do something about them quick. They often require special circumstances so that they either only get used once or never get used at all. With out those circumstances usually the galaxy is screwed."

 

quoting myself, if it was an extremely powerful weapon that was only used once and required a special circumstance to bring it down with out such circumstance the galaxy bein devestated after of which it was never used again (or if it was, there was horror in every one as "SUPER WEAPON" reapeared then it is a super weapon.

 

If it requires either another super weapon or very special circumstances to bring it down (the Isard virus which shouldnt have been allowed to begin with falls under this catagory) then it is a super weapon..

 

 

You dont see people bringing the deathstar then going... what it only takes a Torpedo to bring it down... I dont see the problem here.

[Silenceo]

Lol, I used the term bombardment in jest, all that is being done here is landing troops. Landing troops is OK even if they are falling from the sky. Clearly does not have anything to do with actual bombardment. Drop pods are allowed.

 

Seriously though, calm down. I expect better from you.

 

Viral bombardment...bad...bad!

 

Wasn't really an "upset" post so much as a "disbelief" post.

 

Though, still doubtful that the drop pods would do much to the IDD itself, though, it would infect the Upper City. That is when the IDD would hole up in that military base that you specified was available after arming it even more so with that heavy weapons shop you talked about.

 

Something tells me 5 guys can survive longer with an entire military base of supplies, than a horde of organic monsters being assaulted on all sides by zombies, being unable to gather really do much else..

[Beniboybling]

*snip*

The point was that I was given a lot of shtick from Lady for not allowing the Krytos Virus, and I eventually allowed it. I sigh because it seems I cannot do anything without upsetting someone.

 

P.S. A superweapon is: a weapon with capacities far out of line with normal military technology, such as destroying entire planets or star systems, and often requiring great resources to create.

 

Considering biological warfare is well, normal military technology. I'm hesitant to introduce many bans here.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Silenceo]

Yeh, he expects this crap from me but not you Silenceo!

 

 

I hate it when rules are being twisted or broken, and the wording implied that... It can make me very...Crazy...

 

 

_rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes: _rolls_eyes:

 

If it is merely landing zombies/troops to infect more, go ahead. The IDD will probably fortify once they see the situation. Who knows, maybe Jerec recognizes it.

 

Joke: Please nerf Warren's green text, it fits too well with her faction. Thanks.

 

Side Note: Makes me wonder what you guys DO expect from me...

Edited July 20, 2014 by Silenceo

[tunewalker]

The point was that I was given a lot of shtick from Lady for not allowing the Krytos Virus, and I eventually allowed it. I sigh because it seems I cannot do anything without upsetting someone.

 

P.S. A superweapon is: a weapon with capacities far out of line with normal military technology, such as destroying entire planets or star systems, and often requiring great resources to create.

 

Considering biological warfare is well, normal military technology. I'm hesitant to introduce many bans here.

 

Of course not. Some one wants to do something you have to say yes or no. Any time you allow or disallow a superweapon some one is not going to be pleased. The person trying to get away with a super weapon is going to be sad cus they cant use an OP weapon that the rules say they shouldnt have... If you allow such a weapon to be used and it ends up costing them the match then obviously again they are mad because the only reason they lost was because a Superweapon was allowed to one faction but not to another.

 

 

Its normal is it? how many wars was Bioweapons used in Star wars on wide scale? not in ToR, Not in TCW, not in GE... maybe the Vong war....

 

They were used sparingly, rarely as a last resort or when they were used it was considered a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE thing was taken out quickly and done with..

 

 

"out of line with military tech" is also saying not commonly used... Bioweapons were NEVER in common use acrossed any one war in Star wars, so by your OWN definition ALL bioweapons would be disallowed. I am trying to ban 1, but hey if you want to get rid of all of them with that definition then ok not going to stop you.

Edited July 20, 2014 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

Considering biological warfare is well, normal military technology. I'm hesitant to introduce many bans here.

 

This is sorta wrong.

 

Biological warfare is part of the unholy trifecta. Chemical, Nuclear and Biological warfare is all considered "Unconventional" and banned by the UN, so it's not really "Normal Military Technology"

Edited July 20, 2014 by Selenial

[Silenceo]

Just to toss something else out there so the debate doesn't die, the IDD vehicles could guard the lifts and blockade them rather easily.

 

If the IDD does fortify its position due to the release of the plague, it is likely they will try and setup many turrets near the lifts and fall back to concentrate their forces on their HQ defense.

 

Oh, also a quick question. Due to all of these zombies being connected via hivemend and it being a force plague...does that mean they would radiate force energy? If so, MAJOR buff to Jerec:

 

"His heavy brow overshadows the empty recesses that normally embrace eyes. Jerec has the uncanny power to absorb and overshadow one’s connection to the Force… like a dark cloud. A deep, empowering grasp of your will is what you need."

 

Would this mean his presence *even more so if he meditated* would cut the zombies off from the hivemind, or would he *very unlikely* absorb the hive mind? If they are connected to the force and radiate force energy, the more of them there are, the more powerful Jerec will be. Something tells me zombies do not have strong enough wills to defend their force energy from being drained simply by Jerec's presence on the planet. Due to his scholarly attributes, I would even wager he would know Muur and know what horrors he had previously unleashed. It is due to this that I hypothesize that he would meditate to expand his "cloud" so that these dark side creations of his, empower him and weaken the EoP forces.

 

Also, Jerec's mental abilities are pretty impressive if anyone cares to take a look. Ripping information from an actively resisting Jedi Master among them. Nor would it even be the first time he has faced or used zombie like creatures before. Refer to Spore.

 

Also, what era is this taking place in? I merely ask because up until the last few years before his death he kept his force powers a secret even from his own crew. It could be possible that the EoP does not even know that Jerec is a Dark Jedi. *He used to even hide his light saber.*

 

Jedi Historian + turned Dark Side = Oh *****

 

If I remember right, before order 66 he had basically learned all he could from the jedi, and was already considering turning to the dark side simply to learn its secrets. After he fell he still continued to collect history, but instead of simply destroying it or hiding it, he memorized it, learned from it. I am fairly confident he knows all about Muur. That also leads me to believe he knows about the monsters that the man has created before.

 

I would be careful with those Nekghoul, their will's are likely not quite as strong as Lomi's and could be overwhelmed by Jerec as well.

 

Though, I doubt Jerec will come to personal harm unless the EoP decides to waltz right up to their doorstep and knock.

[Warren-Stride]

A couple things on Project I71A:

 

The Imperial Biological Weapons Division has seen full well what this virus can do, and know to be extremely cautious with its use. Likely, releasing it would be an endgame move made to quickly divert attention from AiR forces and onto a new threat. Beni is right that the benefits are minimal here (because IDD forces can't really be infected) and costs/risks are too high, as y'all pointed out.

 

The argument that Byss could be raided for the virus makes no sense. First people argued that the scientists would hand over the cure to prevent it being released, and now they're arguing that they'll just hand the virus itself over? If Byss is attacked, it is a very well defended world, and considering that we were advised to pick organization planets that were defended, I assume it's defenses still exist. In the event of a raid, the virus would be destroyed. There is no reason to hand it over to the enemy. Additionally, how does the IDD even know about the IBWD on Byss? They have no intel network.

 

Although the existence of the Project I71A has been revealed due to the space stuff, that does not mean that the IDD knows anything about it pretty much at all, or if it would be useful to use on the AiR. Everyone infected who saw its capabilities were killed. The IDD has no proof that it would work on killiks, or rakghouls, or non-humanoid animals. Their leadership would have no reason to pursue it as a weapon for their own use.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Warren-Stride]

Joke: Please nerf Warren's green text, it fits too well with her faction. Thanks.

 

I loled.

[Warren-Stride]

I try to tell it like it is with the plagues, so I put down really all the evidence I could in my faction rundown about them, including their weaknesses/cures. Biological warfare is a tricky business, especially when you could potentially release monsters that could come back to haunt you.

 

I believe that the main virus we should focus on for this Kaggath is the rakhoul virus, and how (under the command of Muur) these rakghouls will quickly infect the Undercity/Lowercity population, adding thousands to the AiR troop count. From that point, it's simply a matter of swarm tactics.

[Silenceo]

The argument that Byss could be raided for the virus makes no sense. First people argued that the scientists would hand over the cure to prevent it being released, and now they're arguing that they'll just hand the virus itself over? If Byss is attacked, it is a very well defended world, and considering that we were advised to pick organization planets that were defended, I assume it's defenses still exist. In the event of a raid, the virus would be destroyed. There is no reason to hand it over to the enemy. Additionally, how does the IDD even know about the IBWD on Byss? They have no intel network.

 

Although the existence of the Project I71A has been revealed due to the space stuff, that does not mean that the IDD knows anything about it pretty much at all, or if it would be useful to use on the AiR. Everyone infected who saw its capabilities were killed. The IDD has no proof that it would work on killiks, or rakghouls, or non-humanoid animals. Their leadership would have no reason to pursue it as a weapon for their own use.

 

Jerec would likely know that the IBWD was on Byss due to his high level of authority in the Imperial Palace, as well as how well connected he was. One of the main things Jerec did was weasel his way into almost every branch of the Galactic Empire's government and gained an army of contacts. Heck, he even managed to convince random admirals to donate money to him just because he made them believe that by doing so they would earn favor with the Empire. Doing so made him Billions of credits rather rapidly, despite the fact he never used them other than to buy his own personal capital ships.

 

If it really is such a stretch for him to have already known, then just use his mental abilities to explain it. A EoP squad tries to kill him as he first lands on the planet, they are subdued and Jerec rips the information from their mind...problem solved. Jerec was completely obsessed with knowledge, he sought the Valley of the Jedi not entirely for its power itself, but more so that he would have unlimited knowledge. He is a Dark Side Scholar to the extreme.

 

As for the the Rakghoul plague, do they not already have the cure to that in the medical station that they have control of? It would merely be a matter of getting it mass produced then. Though, while Rakghouls are indeed strong, fast, and good team players, I still have doubts about anything of humanoid size being able to tear open any of the Dark Trooper suits with their bare hands. And while the rakghouls major weakness of stupidity is out of the window due to Muur, they still would act as cannon fodder for the EoP. As was stated near the beginning, if no plague is obviously effecting the Upper City yet, the IDD would attempt to keep those citizens uninfected. If a lower level is lost, it is a simple matter for the lifts to be shut down or at the very least fortified heavily.

 

I do wonder though how far you all think Jerec's "dark cloud" can expand if he meditates for hours on end within the safety of their deeply entrenched HQ? *I also wonder what effect that would have between Muur and his creations he is attempting to mind control if they entered the cloud...?*

 

Side Note: Forgot to mention that after the IDD has secured the Upper City, they will likely slowly work their way down, securing and fortifying as they go. This too, was mentioned near the beginning. They likely would meet between the lower and middle city, which by that time the Undercity and Lower city are likely completely rakghoulified.

 

After Thought: What is everyone's thoughts on the Commerce Guild and the Arkayd Industries combined efforts to produce additional Dark Troopers/units a bit faster than they usually would? *Commerce guild is spread across the galaxy, any Phrik deposits would benefit the IDD* (The Arkayd Industries has control of Mechis III which is an entire planet of droid producing factories.)

Edited July 20, 2014 by Silenceo

[tausra]

As i did in the last Round, I'll do a total write up of Taris, and how I see it working.

 

Basics:

Taris, pre-bombardment was a city planet packed to the gills with people. The Upper City was the least densely populated, Middle City was more dense, Lower City was the densest population and the Lower city was practically unpopulated. The wealth and security flowed much the same way. Upper city had guard posts, medical labs, troop garrisons and the wealthy had high-rise super sky scrapers likely with their own security forces. Lower City was an armed mess of vigilantes and gangs, people who fought regularly, and often to the death. Swoop gangs were fast, hard hitting thugs who looked after there own, with blaster turrets and black market goods. The Exchange was all over the place, a disease on all levels, procuring goods and services that were otherwise unavailable.

 

The whole planet had a very "possessive" attitude, "What's mine is mine, and I'll kill you if you try and take it away". Everyone here wants to go topside, and will do anything to get there.

 

City Design

 

The Buildings are closer together at the lowest levels, and are riddled with access tunnels, hatches and passage ways. Getting a lock on anything on the Under City will be like chasing a will o' the wisp through lots of blind tunnels. Power, meaning electricity, was spotty in the Under City, as the Upper levels consumed almost all of it. Open spaces weren't common, and communities tended to huddle around the lifts heading to the upper levels, and were densely packed hovels of life. Something of importance will no doubt be the waste processing, which I can't imagine being anywhere else on the planet.

 

Lower City: Crowded streets, worn down super-apartments, and wide-spread disrepair make the Lower City Dangerous to live in. Swoop gangs and other criminal elements have likely secured the most defensible locations and done the work to keep them fully functioning. These locations are also very likely to be loaded with turrets and other protective measures, as a cost of business. The cantinas owned by the criminal element are also just as likely to be defensible, after all they are a source of income. Here there are also twisting paths and a maze of streets, but not to the claustrophobic extent of the Under City.

 

Middle City: I would imagine this is where food processing, water recycling, and potentially waste management happens. The streets are wider, people have more room to move and do things, which offsets the high number of people living here. The majority of the planet is Middle City, the Burbs, for comparison's sake. Not a whole lot of information on it, other than it was the main merchant hub of the city.

 

Upper City: Rounded buildings, Filled with expensive houses, wealthy people and their droids. There were the remains of prisons, built long ago and abandoned decades before. From pictures we can see that each section appears almost isolated from each other, creating neighborhoods based on a single platform.

 

Things to remember: Lower and Under City are a continuous area, with very little breaks in the flow of people. Middle City has some breaks, but it appears to be mostly connected. Upper City is made of isolated islands of civilization.

 

What does it Matter? Under City is defensible based solely on architecture, which will make it hard to purge the creatures there. Lower City is unreliably constructed, meaning the map could change rapidly, and things my not be working properly. Middle City is filled with people and shops, so resistance movements could find weapons and safety here. Upper City Is isolated, sealed off, and far removed from the troubles anywhere else.

 

 

Protection:

 

Being a city planet, there are levels, layers and zones; however, the turbulent and xenophobic history of Taris twisted this concept. Each level armed itself against incursion from the lower levels, but none more so than the Upper City. The rampant xenophobia of the Upper City lead to pass codes, access cards, blaster turrets, guard stations and heavily armed patrols on almost every "street platform". When the lower levels rioted, the Upper City maintained peace and eventually subdued the lower levels completely.

 

Lower City was cramped with little breathing room and lots of very tense, very armed people. The buildings didn't have much security on the payroll, but, the Exchange and other criminal enterprises would likely keep response teams on hand, if they had paid their protection money.

 

Middle City was filled with shops, housing and people. speeders, weaponry and other, more urbane shops filled the middle ground. Security here was likely less than the Upper City, but also had more real combat experience as they often had to deal with the ruffians from the lower levels.

 

What does this mean? It is harder to go up than down. Lifts lock, systems shut off, and when the panic is strong enough, topside will turn into a fortress of turrets and automated systems. If the Upper City could hold off a rioting planet, i would wager its' defensive capabilities are beyond compare.

 

 

This is all I could find on the planet, with a little extrapolation based on what i know about the planet's social structure. I'll update this shortly to account for troop pairings.

[Beniboybling]

I do wonder though how far you all think Jerec's "dark cloud" can expand if he meditates for hours on end within the safety of their deeply entrenched HQ? *I also wonder what effect that would have between Muur and his creations he is attempting to mind control if they entered the cloud...?*

Any examples of this that might indicate range and the like?

 

Also I think we should consider how the Dark Troopers will fare against Rakghouls.