Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Empire of Plagues vs Imperial Droid Division

[tunewalker]

Response here.

 

So beni why was The Legacy allowed and Executor disallowed any way, The Legacy was analog to the Executor types... it was smaller yes but similar levels of firepwer and defenses and Similar number of ships it could take on solo and win... I mean, this is supposed to bring Debate yes.... and the rules are supposed to ficilitate that debate well as far as I can see.....

 

EoP wins Kaggath all rounds

 

/tournament.

Edited July 19, 2014 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

So beni why was The Legacy allowed and Executor disallowed any way, The Legacy was analog to the Executor types... it was smaller yes but similar levels of firepwer and defenses and Similar number of ships it could take on solo and win... I mean, this is supposed to bring Debate yes.... and the rules are supposed to ficilitate that debate well as far as I can see.....

 

EoP wins Kaggath all rounds

 

/tournament.

 

God knows.

 

One could also ask why he told us all he'd nerf the LoT and then go behind everyone's back because (I'm guessing) Warren got a little upset about it. Like, if she changed his mind he should have at least told us so we could bring it up again before this Kaggath.

 

And yes, sorry Warren, but that's literally the only explanation I can come up until you say otherwise with as to why he'd say one thing in the thread to everybody, and just not do it.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Selenial

[Silenceo]

*sigh* Most Vong vessels can be dealt with rationally like any other ship, but when they start getting huge like the LoT...it just... makes me almost want to go insane...

 

Side Note: I consider the Vong vessels attempting to ram the IDD vessels to be very ineffective, they would likely then be focused until they were completely lifeless while the ship in the path made evasive action. It also would completely expose it to the Vengeance which could likely drop it in a volley or two.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Silenceo

[karadron]

Source? Just interested, wasn't aware of this.

 

Just inferences based off what I know about Vong tech. Mostly the fact that to use the ships they have to put on a helmet that connects them to the vessel, and Vong head are not the same or similar in shape to Killiks. As well it would seem that if a mind is communicating with the ship creativity would be an important factor. Hive minds might communicate better between different individuals within the mind, but when communicating with something outside of it things can be easily miscommunicated.

[Warren-Stride]

God knows.

 

One could also ask why he told us all he'd nerf the LoT and then go behind everyone's back because (I'm guessing) Warren got a little upset about it. Like, if she changed his mind he should have at least told us so we could bring it up again before this Kaggath.

 

And yes, sorry Warren, but that's literally the only explanation I can come up until you say otherwise with as to why he'd say one thing in the thread to everybody, and just not do it.

 

I did not take part in the discussion regarding the Legacy of Torment at all, if you remember. I had nothing to say on the matter, and if people had concerns about Vong tech, which I knew they would, I was more than happy to have those addressed before the Kaggath actually started. I did not speak up, publicly or privately, to oppose the nerfing of the Legacy of Torment. In fact, it seems that the nerf would have been the preferable option, to avoid this mess.

 

As I said when this Kaggath started, I knew that my faction was going to be the most hated faction, probably in Kaggath history. I built it to be a good concept, not necessarily a good faction for the Kaggath. Although I realize that Vong tech, the viruses, Lomi Plo, and other aspects of the AiR are scandalous, I wanted to share with y'all the monstrous faction that I created in my mad scientist laboratory. I apologize that it has caused so much drama.

 

But, I would appreciate some sympathy. As this is my faction, I am forced to play Devil's Advocate. I don't like Vong tech. And some of the arguments brought up against it I think are good ones. But I am obligated to do my best to at least make this a debate, rather than a one-sided smack-down. I am a bit confused about why some people seem to be getting angry at me (or Beni for that matter) for trying to ensure that this is a debate. As fun as it would be to see someone ROLFstomp the Vong ships and Lomi Plo and the rest, that's not a Kaggath. I'm trying to uphold my end of the deal here by defending my faction. Don't hold that against me.

[Selenial]

I did not take part in the discussion regarding the Legacy of Torment at all, if you remember. I had nothing to say on the matter, and if people had concerns about Vong tech, which I knew they would, I was more than happy to have those addressed before the Kaggath actually started. I did not speak up, publicly or privately, to oppose the nerfing of the Legacy of Torment. In fact, it seems that the nerf would have been the preferable option, to avoid this mess.

 

Interesting.

 

Don't take this personally, because I think your faction was Genius. I just don't like how Beni's handled the LoT and the Vong fleet in general, it's really nothing to do with you... Except the fact that you picked the Vong fleet

 

Lomi Plo's another thing, seeing as she's now joined with Karness Muur and thus probably tres OP, (not asking to nerf her, there's ways around it) but but that's a discussion for later.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Selenial

[Silenceo]

I did not take part in the discussion regarding the Legacy of Torment at all, if you remember. I had nothing to say on the matter, and if people had concerns about Vong tech, which I knew they would, I was more than happy to have those addressed before the Kaggath actually started. I did not speak up, publicly or privately, to oppose the nerfing of the Legacy of Torment. In fact, it seems that the nerf would have been the preferable option, to avoid this mess.

 

As I said when this Kaggath started, I knew that my faction was going to be the most hated faction, probably in Kaggath history. I built it to be a good concept, not necessarily a good faction for the Kaggath. Although I realize that Vong tech, the viruses, Lomi Plo, and other aspects of the AiR are scandalous, I wanted to share with y'all the monstrous faction that I created in my mad scientist laboratory. I apologize that it has caused so much drama.

 

But, I would appreciate some sympathy. As this is my faction, I am forced to play Devil's Advocate. I don't like Vong tech. And some of the arguments brought up against it I think are good ones. But I am obligated to do my best to at least make this a debate, rather than a one-sided smack-down. I am a bit confused about why some people seem to be getting angry at me (or Beni for that matter) for trying to ensure that this is a debate. As fun as it would be to see someone ROLFstomp the Vong ships and Lomi Plo and the rest, that's not a Kaggath. I'm trying to uphold my end of the deal here by defending my faction. Don't hold that against me.

 

Perfectly understandable, though I do love how it was Monsters vs Machines in the very first round. I do not mean to be condesending, hostile, or even rude towards you Warren, as I said before the Kaggath started in the creation thread, when I have a personal stake in debates I tend to get...unfriendly... So again, I apologize for earlier when I worded some of my questions rather pointedly in such a crude and blunt manner.

 

While I do want to win, I do not want it simply to be because the opposition is outnumbered, and I have tried to give credit where it was due, though some parts are debatable. To tell ya the truth, the IDD was pretty much inspired by the DS of the last Kaggath, though I am sure you recognized that. I have a good amount of respect for quite a few of you guys which is part of why I try and listen as well as be open to new ideas, but it doesn't always work.

 

I still have misgivings regarding the Vong, but compared to the others I feel as if my *OP* meter for them is a bit lower, and like Beni said, their main shtick is being different than everyone else. While at times I do point out the flaws, and at times the strength, I DO respect the Vong for what they have done and are able to do. That just does not mean I do not have pet peves concerning them that tend to flare up when discussing them in this type of manner.

 

I wish we can continue to debate in a civilized manner, and that this may be settled with the least amount of flame wars. Are there any questions regarding the IDD you have that I may answer?

[tunewalker]

My analysis is going to exclude the mother ship as every one already knows I think it can solo his entire fleet with out taking a single scratch.... so here we go.

 

Fighter compliments have already been discussed so I am going to start with fighter defenses on cspital ships...

 

 

 

A-vek: "Although the fighter carrier was armed with 20 yaret-kors and several dovin basal projectors, it was not designed as a warship. After releasing its starfighter wings into combat, the A-vek Iiluunu would retreat to the edge of the battlezone, providing support for the larger vessels." this ships analog in the New republic was

 

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Endurance-class_carrier

 

 

And we can see that in both ships roles as well as listed compliments and weapon types.

 

This ship likely provided excellent fighter defenses and with the EoP having slightly more fighters then the IDD it likely had enough protection to even protect the other ships among the EoP... The dovin Basal's again reading here http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dovin_basal seem to largely act as both engines, ray shields and particle shields (IE Deflector shields) which COULD still be overwhelmed like any shields while also acting as Ion guns for things that get to close. Beyond that they dont seem to do much.

 

 

Ultimately the A-Vek is EXCELLENTLY defended against fighters and could likely use some of its Basal's and its Yaret's to help defend other ships against fighters

 

 

Miid's: these things were beasts, but they seemed to lack a distinct amount of fighter defenses. Should a fighter overwhelm the Dovin Basal's it could do serious damage and disable portions of the ship, including its cannons and even its Basal's The worst thing for it to lose would be its deadly Skaal.

 

Overall they would rely on other ships for fighter defense for most of it, though some of its weapons like the Skaal and its defenses like the Dovin Basal's meant it wasnt naked in its defense against fighters and a concentrated fighter attack was required to hit it hard enough to actually dish damage. Like many large ships it required a squad to make a successful attack run to actually dish damage.

 

 

Tartan-class corvette: This thing is a monster at killing fighters its full offense of 20 laser cannons were specifically for killing fighters, its more then capable of both keeping fighters off itself and off allies. with 15 of these we ahve

 

300 Laser cannons designed for killing enemy fighters.

 

 

9 Strike-class: These lack ALL fighter defense and require defense from allied ships handle enemy fighters. They are clearly NOT intended for Fighter defenses.

 

20 The Vindictator has: 20 point defense guns, and 20 point defense ion-cannons, unfortunately the ion cannons will have little affect on Vong fighters OR on vong projectile weapons limiting this ships defenses. Thankfully even with out them they SHOULD be adequate in defense against fighters.

 

 

Overall: While the IDD has Strike classes that appear vulnerable to fighters the more numerable Tartan's make up for this.... The tartan is extremely specialized for killing enemy fighters, because of this it is highly unlikely that EoP fighters will be able to harm the IDD ships in any meaningful way. The EoP's own fighter defenses how ever are ALSO fairly strong thanks to the A-vek and the fact that the Staak and the EoP's slight compliment advantage doenst leave his Miid's completely undefended. However because of the heavy fighter killing power of the Tartans it is possible SOME damage will be done to the Miid's as the fighters may get stretched to thin by the IDD fighters and Fighter killers....

 

I give a slight edge to the IDD here, but by no means a large one... the EoP Miid's Might be hurt by a couple attack runs but overall they will still be in largely fighting condition.

Edited July 19, 2014 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

Capship fighting.

 

 

10 A-vek: This ship again as an analog of the Endurance DOES have some capship fighting capabilities... Its greatest strength is it is a preverbial TANK... it can take punishment like no bodies business and can likely take MORE firepower then just about any ship on the IDD's line up. It obviously beats the Tartan in fire power against cap ships It as slightly less overall firepower then the Strike-class but its defenses may allow it to take on 1.5 of these..... I would call 1=1 cap ship fighting to the Vindicator.

 

 

 

 

4 Miid: The Miid absolutely lives up to its analog, this ship is both a BEAST when it comes to firepower and an utter beast when it comes to defense. This ship can last for a very good time in direct conflict. Given both its size, and its many Dovin Basal's acting as wonderful defense, It would likely take around 5 Strike-classes to match this things firepower and defenses, or around 3 Vindicators.....

 

 

 

 

9 Strike-class: As we have shown above this thing was both tough and had excellent firepower for a ship of its size. It very heavily concentrated on Capital ship firepower... HOWEVER it is much smaller then the enemies ships allowing it to be much more difficult to match them 1v1, FORTUNATELY these arent technically 1v1.... this group of 9 would likely be capable of taking down 6 of the enemy A-vek's

 

4 A-vek's left

 

20 Vindicator heavy cruisers: What I have noticed at first glance is it has exceptionally well balanced fighter and captial ship offense and defense, unfortunately I do not believe its Capital ship firepower is any better then that of the Strike-class FORTUNATELY its defenses likely ARE. I believe it could take the larger and tougher A-vek's 1:1 in capital offense...

 

16 Vindicator's left

 

Above you will have noted that I said a Miid could likely take 3 Vindicator's per as we can see here though The Vindicator's have the slight edge with what is left, meaning they would likely win again with MORE Then what is left over. Allowing for these Vindicator's along with the Allegiance to attempt to take on the nealy Invincible Legacy.

 

 

Overall edge: Not including the flagships I give the IDD the edge again, but barely.

Edited July 19, 2014 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

Final overall:

 

If we add back in the Legacy, there is little doubt The EoP wins. While fighter defense will get a bit thinner it will not be enough to allow for a hard enough hit on the Legacy. Especially when it enemy Tartan classes start falling to larger enemy ships. They will be able to do little to thin the fighter numbers enough that the A-vek's and the fighters wont be enough to largely defend the Legacy. It and the Miid's have MORE then enough firepower to wipe out the IDD's ships.

This will be closer then I thought it would be but ultimately the winner will be EoP.

 

 

There that is my assessment on the space battle. Not much to be added I believe.

 

What needs to be looked at here, is the fact that the Vong have more fighters, some of their ships have very good fighter defenses that can help them out, and even their larger ships arent 100% helpless against fighers even if they are vulnerable. The greater number of fighters combined with 1 of their ships having decent fighter defenses makes it difficult to have fighters make a difference.

While I absolutely admit fighters WILL make a difference, with the IDD's need to defend Some of its OWN ships from fighters (even with the awesome defenses of the Tartan classes) it means it may not be able to field ENOUGH of an offense to make a LARGE enough difference to overcome the overall extreme toughness and firepower of the Miid's and the Legacy.

 

I believe the winner of the space battle, though close, will be the EoP.

 

we can talk boarding parties if you will, but I doubt the IDD will gain anything from it, and I DO believe the EoP will be hard pressed to LAND a boarding party..... but I also dont think they NEED to land a boarding party.

Edited July 19, 2014 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

Fighter to fighter comparison

 

I honestly agree with Sil on the starting one So i see little reason to debate that one, I believe the Coralskippers will be slightly better then the TIE/D's

 

 

 

Bomber

 

This honestly to me tips the Fighter advantage even further in IDD's hands. The Dart ships would be brilliant, but I feel the IDD's fighter defenses on its ships (especially with the tartan here) are to strong to take TRUE advatage of the Dartship. That advantage that I believe most miss is its SPEED for a bomber. It makes it more difficult to defend against a bombing run when the bomber itself is interceptor speed. Unfortunately I feel the IDD has fighter defense in abundance. That abundance makes the Dartships almost like wasted space unfortunately...

 

The Blastboat on the other hand, is exceptionally powerful heavy fighter. Both being able to make an attack run on enemy capital ships AND defend itself quite well against enemy fighters increasing its chances at MAKING those runs.

 

 

Elite: This is where I largely differ from Silenceo....

The Yorik-vec is a MONSTER, its cannons unlike most fighters are able to swivel, and act as turrets. Its guns are also Much stronger then your typical fighter living up to its name as a "Gunship" as well as the ships size means this thing is a preverbial monster that wades through enemy fighter squads causing distruction in its wake.

 

The Shadow droid has similar levels of fire power but lacks the defense, it makes up for this though in terms of SPEED and the ability to also act as a bomber should it need to.

 

I end up giving the Shadow droid a slight edge for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Cloaking, this as far as I know was used fairly successfully against vong ships. Allowing a stealthed fighter to get in at a local NOT defended at all by a Dovin, and that single fighter successfully delivering its pay load causing good damage. Though it wasnt fool proof, the moment the missile is fired the Vong ships will pick it up and will respond VERY quickly to the attack.

 

I can not truly say which Elite class is better.

 

 

Ultimately I feel this assessment wont change much about my assessment before, but I did need to give credit where it was do to Warren's Elite class.

[tausra]

Questions about the LoT:

1. What sort of targeting capabilities does it have? The IDD has a lot of very fast ships, and if the LoT can't track movement then it won't take down many ships.

 

2. What is the rate of fire for those massive weapons? Is it lobbing star destroyer sized rocks as fast as a turbolaser, or is it slow, needing to regrow and fire?

 

3. What's the maneuvering capability of this beast? Can it turn and rotate the heavy guns, or is it going to have to take it slow and hope to hit a cloud of fighters?

 

4. Firing plasma that large, means Newton needs to get involved. What happens if the LoT fires and misses its target? Could they potentially hit the planet, their own troops or maybe nothing at all?

 

5. What is the range of its' black hole?Are we gonna see some interference with the planet, or its' own ships?

 

General Questions:

Killiks will be using Vong tech, which means things are going to be adapted and altered. How is this going to influence the Hive Mind? It was mentioned earlier, but I think it is worthy of repeating Vong ships require neural links, melding individual to the ship. It is a logical next step to ask how Hive-minds are going to interact with the uplinks, could there be something like lag as thoughts are sent, received and then translated to the ship?

 

EDIT: It was stated that the bugs can fly Vong ships, but, Beni also said they just left "Vong Flight Academy", so, we're looking at fresh, rookie pilots, correct?

 

EDIT 2: Found the quote:

RL explanation: they went to Vong Naval Academy before the Kaggath or something to that effect.

Edited July 19, 2014 by tausra

[tunewalker]

On the wholes shield debate people were having...... Particle shields DO exist on all the IDD ships. Thats part of the diflector shields, its the reason P. Torps were used imstead of conc missiles against cap ships and conc missiles were used against fighters unless they were the Assault variant.

 

You will notice in RotJ the A-wing DID NOT fire a single proton torp to destroy the shield generator on the Executor it fired multiple. I always took this as because 1 was used to weaken the shield and the second to punch through and do real damage not to mention the "concentrate all fire" portion. The Ship destroyed in the asteroid field had been their for hours prior to, it was highly likely its particle shields were overwhelmed.... Vong capable of same thing

 

Also for those that said the Vong have no Ion guns..... look up Dovin Basal's one of their usages was to pull shields off targets.... They acted as the Vong ships Ion cannons. Thats why the MIid matches the Imp II in every way. The Bassils were great enough in number on the ship that it could move while having good shielding AND hainv basal's left over to act as tractor beams or Ion cannons. Dovin's were very multi perpose..

 

 

I do NOT subscribe to the idea that Vong ships are OP in any way, they are just different. Basal's are not unbeatable, they just provide a different way of doing the same thing multiple different systems do on normal ships. They act as engines, shields, Ion cannons, tractor beams, and interdiction. They are limited just like those systems on a normal ship are limited. The normal ships having to use up reactor energy to power the different systems. The Vong ships having to use the Basal's for different systems. If they wanted to move faster they needed to dedicate more Basals to moving faster, if they wanted to drain shields faster more basals dedicated to draining shields, if they wanted to trap ships.... so on and so forth. While conventional ships were limited by their reactors the Vong ships were limited by how many Basals they could dedicate to a task, in the end they both achieved similar levels of power through different means.

Edited July 19, 2014 by tunewalker

[Silenceo]

Just wanted to mention that Ion weaponry was not useless against organic foes. It might not have as much out right destructive power as a turbolaser, but it was just as, if not more, deadly. It would be the equivalent of being hit with a tazer with every blast. Basically it would stun every Vong ship it it. In essence, it is delivering a large amount of electricity directly into an organic life form, which could burn out several portions of the ship. Think lightning strike.

 

Less out right damage than the turbo lasers, but still wold hurt organics quite a bit.

 

Side Note: I am pretty sure the Shadow Droid's weapons swivel as well Tune.

 

After Thought: Was this purely technical analysis or did you include the proposed thoughts such as the TIE/D and the Shadow Droid connection? *because that would have a MAJOR effect on the battle*

[Silenceo]

Questions about the LoT:

1. What sort of targeting capabilities does it have? The IDD has a lot of very fast ships, and if the LoT can't track movement then it won't take down many ships.

 

As far as we could tell the larger Vong guns have a slow swivel speed, which was brought up when we were discussing the possible defenses that the Vong had for anti-star fighter.

 

2. What is the rate of fire for those massive weapons? Is it lobbing star destroyer sized rocks as fast as a turbolaser, or is it slow, needing to regrow and fire?

 

EXTREMELY slow, yet the shots the largest cannons fire are also EXTREMELY deadly.

 

3. What's the maneuvering capability of this beast? Can it turn and rotate the heavy guns, or is it going to have to take it slow and hope to hit a cloud of fighters?

 

If you are referring to the Legacy of Torment, definitely not maneuverable at all, and movement on its part robs it of some of its defensive capabilities. Its heavy guns, all it has actually due to how Vong work, can rotate, but it is so slow that it would be like a Long Range Artillery unit trying to shoot down Jets. Without flak.

 

4. Firing plasma that large, means Newton needs to get involved. What happens if the LoT fires and misses its target? Could they potentially hit the planet, their own troops or maybe nothing at all?

 

Friendly fire is a possibility, which is part of why I was doubtful it would simply unload with so many of its own fighters so close to it or in between it and the enemy vessels. Their pilots are living, they might not wish to be so careless.

 

5. What is the range of its' black hole?Are we gonna see some interference with the planet, or its' own ships?

 

Typically the same range as an average ships shields. So only just projected off of the top of the hull to swallow incoming projectiles, though they can be overwhelmed and due to being living things, do tire from constant use. Not affected by the planet unless it goes into low orbit, and even then almost nothing. As for its own ships...that is a possibility that we have not actually gone over yet...

 

General Questions:

Killiks will be using Vong tech, which means things are going to be adapted and altered. How is this going to influence the Hive Mind? It was mentioned earlier, but I think it is worthy of repeating Vong ships require neural links, melding individual to the ship. It is a logical next step to ask how Hive-minds are going to interact with the uplinks, could there be something like lag as thoughts are sent, received and then translated to the ship?

 

EDIT: It was stated that the bugs can fly Vong ships, but, Beni also said they just left "Vong Flight Academy", so, we're looking at fresh, rookie pilots, correct?

 

I assume so, but Beni would likely bump them to average to allow for some *fairness* considering that every single Shadow Droid is an Imperial Ace. Nearly 1/6 of the IDD fighter compliment are composed of them as well. 4/6 is still Fighters, and 2/6 is still Shadow Droids/Skiprays, but there are more Skiprays than shadow droids, I specified how much farther back, I think there was 9 more squadrons If I remember right. 20 squadrons of Shadow Droids, 29 squadrons of Skiprays, and 98 squadrons of TIE/D. Though, I would have to check the math to confirm it.

 

EDIT 2: Found the quote:

 

Responses above in Gray. Most have already been stated, though they do answer your questions.

[Beniboybling]

This really should be here either :PPPP Edited July 19, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

Wrong place. Edited July 19, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Silenceo]

Wrong place.

 

Blasphemer! *Also, it sounds fair*

[tunewalker]

Just wanted to mention that Ion weaponry was not useless against organic foes. It might not have as much out right destructive power as a turbolaser, but it was just as, if not more, deadly. It would be the equivalent of being hit with a tazer with every blast. Basically it would stun every Vong ship it it. In essence, it is delivering a large amount of electricity directly into an organic life form, which could burn out several portions of the ship. Think lightning strike.

 

Less out right damage than the turbo lasers, but still wold hurt organics quite a bit.

 

Side Note: I am pretty sure the Shadow Droid's weapons swivel as well Tune.

 

After Thought: Was this purely technical analysis or did you include the proposed thoughts such as the TIE/D and the Shadow Droid connection? *because that would have a MAJOR effect on the battle*

 

Swivel to a degree, they arent turreted, Its a different design the Shadow droid isnt going be slowly floating through space soaking up damage while firing back and dishing out MAJOR pain to every fighter around it all at the same time. It has a different job. I stand by they accomplish similar things but in different ways.... the VOng ship accomiplishes it by being tough and being able to fire in multiple directions at a time bassically acting as a mini Corvette, your acts as a fighter with a strong load out and speed, it is still not all that tough...

 

 

And yes It was a technical look at it, HOWEVER I highly doubt that will change much.. The basis of the TIE/D's were the TIE/LN, and the Corralskippers were a match for X-wings. The X-wing (if I recall correctly) standard battle order was 1 was worth 3 TIE/LN. Now this is offset by the fact that the TIE/D could maneuver in ways a TIE/LN could not. And normally it would be put back in the same spot because ease of which organic pilots HAVE been able to outsmart droid pilots, how ever with the Shadow droids having the minds of DEAD organic pilots, if they can link up it pushes that back in favor of the TIE/D, adding in shielding as well pushes it in their favor, ultimately though all these advantages over the TIE/LN base design does is bring them on par with the Corralskipper from my perspective.

 

 

Edit: oh i think you are right about the ion weapons, unfortunately that does little to alter my analysis. You have even greater fighter defense and that means you can likely thin the lines a little bit more, but I do not believe you have enough of a fighter advantage to ultimately do enough damage to over come that MONSTER that is the LoT and still have enough left over for the Miid's. And whats really going to grind your gears... you likely have no way to escape... once they have you well enough down..... they can dedicate more Basal's to Interdiction instead of shielding or ion guns or propulsion.

 

 

Edit 2: by they arent turretted on the Shadow's I am talking ALL of its guns, the Vong ships guns are all turreted. You have 1 i thnk that is but the rest are used in a forward assault as a fighter.

Edited July 19, 2014 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

10 A-vek: This ship again as an analog of the Endurance DOES have some capship fighting capabilities... Its greatest strength is it is a preverbial TANK... it can take punishment like no bodies business and can likely take MORE firepower then just about any ship on the IDD's line up. It obviously beats the Tartan in fire power against cap ships It as slightly less overall firepower then the Strike-class but its defenses may allow it to take on 1.5 of these..... I would call 1=1 cap ship fighting to the Vindicator.

I think we might be taking the analog a little to far here, as far as I can tell the comparison is the same because they served similar roles and have the same compliments.

 

However the A-vek is 200 metres smaller and appears to be quite thin - thiness being important because there likely isn't that much organic mass to burrow through, and those dovin basals are probably not as powerful as a 1km vessel.

[tunewalker]

I think we might be taking the analog a little to far here, as far as I can tell the comparison is the same because they served similar roles and have the same compliments.

 

However the A-vek is 200 metres smaller and appears to be quite thin - thiness being important because there likely isn't that much organic mass to burrow through, and those dovin basals are probably not as powerful as a 1km vessel.

 

Fair enough, HOWEVER, it is still larger then ANY of the IDD's ships save for their flagship. So while it may not be as tough as the Endurance, its still tougher then any ship on the IDD's line up. Ultimately I believe this would change Strikes vs A-veks into a 1v1 assessment in terms of CAP ship vs CAP ship...

 

This again does lean things a bit more in the IDD favor, but I am unconvinced it would be enough to allow enough FIGHTERS to get through to the LoT to do enough damage to it to allow the Allegeiance as well as several Vindicators (likely around 8) to overcome the shear monster that is the LoT....

 

 

Bassically what I can tell is

 

10 A-vek vs 9 Strike

 

1 A-vek left

 

the fighter swarm vs fighter swarm are around equal, Tartan classes push it to what I would call a 2:1 favor for the IDD

These fighters hit the LoT hard, halfing its firepower

 

The 1 A-vek left is easily handled by 1 Vindicator

 

leaving 19 Vindicators to fight the 4 Miid's my assessment here not changing at all

 

it would leave 7 Vindicators and an Allegiance left to fight the potentially half Strength LoT.... but even at half strength these ships are SEVERELY hard pressed to defeat the LoT..... The Vindicators will do little, but the Allegiance will dish out pain, but I dont think it will be enough.

 

Ultimately Vong win, but by an EXTREMELY close margin. If we add in the toughness of the Tartans (something I havent considered yet, i have considered them being destroyed but not the amount of firepower it would require giving other cap ships time) and the time it takes to fire at them to stop them limiting the enemy fighters (something they will still likely succeed in doing to the level I suggested) With Trench being a very effective commander (nothing against Lomi, I just dont see her on that same level) it COULD push it in favor of the IDD just enough, but if it did I would think we have MAYBE 1 Vindicator left on the IDD side of things.

 

 

As for survival, I honestly find it likely both will survive, just as I find it likely if the vong start to lose they will leave.... though the IDD may be able to hunt them down, they may not wish to risk it as its just way to close to be comfortable for them to do so.

Edited July 19, 2014 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

Fair enough, HOWEVER, it is still larger then ANY of the IDD's ships save for their flagship. So while it may not be as tough as the Endurance, its still tougher then any ship on the IDD's line up.

But the size isn't necessarily a sign of strength, it could well be simply to fit more fighters.

[tunewalker]

But the size isn't necessarily a sign of strength, it could well be simply to fit more fighters.

 

Correct, I meant more for its toughness. Its analog WAS the Endurance and it was only 200 meters smaller. I would think it would still be quite tough and dish out a LITTLE firepower....

 

Also I just made an edit

[Selenial]

So.... About that calling it.

[Aurbere]

So.... About that calling it.

 

I was about to say that.