Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Empire of Plagues vs Imperial Droid Division

[Warren-Stride]

Anti-Fighter:

Something you appear to lack other than your own fighter compliment. I have Tartan corvettes which are quite well equipped, not to mention how heavily the Vindicators are equipped to deal with small fast moving craft.

 

On the contrary: Yaret-kors were extremely good anti-fighter weapons. Both those equipped on larger ships and smaller ships. They could completely ignore the shields of starfighters and melt through their hulls.

 

Skipray vs Yorik-vec assault cruiser:

I can't help but feel that my Skiprays have the advantage here, not only is it slightly smaller, but it is much heavier armed, it has even been referred to by some here as a "pocket corvette"

Skiprays are well known for their many, many missiles. However, dovin basals, the defense for these ships, are basically mini-black holes that can easily suck in those missiles, making them useless. This ship is also a cross between a starfighter and a light warship, carrying six yaret-kors itself.

 

Star Fighter Theory:

Due to much I have read on both the TIE/D and the Shadow droids, I have a theory that they could link together and form a sort of *droid hive mind* I have had this theory for a while now, and it is only made much more likely due to having IG-88. IG-88 could download himself to the TIE/D's as well as into the PI's on the ground. *If not the others as well.* What this would do, is it would mean each Shadow droid would have control of 4+ TIE/D's, and due to the fact each Shadow Droid is a Imperial Ace pilot...well...you catch the drift... Toss in the numbers disparity due to the darts suiciding...

If this does work, AiR already has a system like this set up over all of it fighters.

 

Miid Ro’ik [4] vs Vindicator Heavy Cruiser [20]:

While it is indeed true that the Miid Ro’ik can tear apart a Vindicator in 1 vs 1, there is but one problem. There are only 4 Miid Ro’ik and 20 Vindicators. Nor are they lightly armed, even though they each carry 72 fighter craft. Numbers wise, 3 Vindicators = 1 Imperial Class in firepower, or just about.

Hey now. I read up on your ships. They don't have 72 fighters each. They have BETWEEN 24 and 72, 72 being the max. So the average would be 48 fighters per ship.

 

The issue is, Vindicator Heavy Cruisers have LIGHT turbolasers. And, if I am not mistaken, it takes a LOT more than LIGHT turbolasers to take down a Vong ship, of any type.

 

Tactical Space Leadership:

I Believe that Trench has this in the bag right here. He has many advantages, throw in the previously mentioned points, and his expertise with droid forces...I do believe he will be able to win the engagement quite handily. Though, I admit to somewhat of a lack of knowledge on some of the AiR leadership, so I likely am underestimating their tactical capibilities. Please, enlighten me.

Consider this. In the Battle of the Murgo Choke, the killik nests battled the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances at the command of Nek Bwua'tu. Bwua'tu failed and his ship was captured by killiks. Killiks are no joke in space, and it seems they are very good at boarding parties. Especially on Star Destroyer-type ships.

[Silenceo]

Hey now. I read up on your ships. They don't have 72 fighters each. They have BETWEEN 24 and 72, 72 being the max. So the average would be 48 fighters per ship.

 

The issue is, Vindicator Heavy Cruisers have LIGHT turbolasers. And, if I am not mistaken, it takes a LOT more than LIGHT turbolasers to take down a Vong ship, of any type.

 

 

Incorrect. A small exert from the wiki, since I lack source books.

 

"Most Vindicators were specifically configured so that they could carry a full TIE starfighter wing and operate independently without the need for support ships.[2] Other configurations could carry only two squadrons of starfighters."

 

They are not the other variants, they are of the common variant. As I specified in faction creation in the PM's I sent to beni. I explained the same regarding the Strike class.

 

Side Note: If the droid hive mind theory works, then they will be able to easily compete with the AiR fighters, due to their link to the Shadow droids, as well as the fact that they are relatively small targets for star fighters and are able to perform maneuvers that would outright kill organics.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Silenceo

[Selenial]

And now everyone learns why we warned against the Vong Fleet.

 

I hate you Warren, Vong series sucked enough, now this?

[Silenceo]

And now everyone learns why we warned against the Vong Fleet.

 

I hate you Warren, Vong series sucked enough, now this?

 

The boot of the Imperial Droid Division shall halt this insurrection before it manages to spread. It is Jerec's destiny.

 

Edit Side Note: The Vindicators light turbolasers will not be striking the capital ships. They will be helping to swat down the dart ships. How many fighter craft do you have? 1800 or so? *approximately how many I have*

 

If 1/3 of them are dart ships, then you have 1200 vs 1800 going on there, and those 600 are being swatted aside by the severe star fighter defenses my fleet has.

 

15 tartans x their 20 anti star fighter weaponry = 300 anti star fighter guns from them alone. They are quite accurate when it comes to the job as well.

 

Each vindicator has 20 point defense turbo lasers as well as 20 point defense ion cannons. Add to the the other 20 light quad tubolasers and the 25 light turbolasers, which these 45 guns will be firing on the enemy capital ships, unless the dart ships prove more troublesome than I believe... 45x20= 900. If I recall, it wasn't so much that the Vong ships were exactly strong, so much as that they could negate a lot of concentrated firepower from things such as heavy turbolasers.

 

So, I have more anti star fighter guns than you do dart ships, without even counting the strike class. Add to that the fact we have nearly equal star fighter numbers...and the fact that the Vengeance will be punching quite hard against the smaller vessels while the advantage is built up to over come the flagship... Quite an advantage, that anti-fighter...

Edited July 15, 2014 by Silenceo

[tunewalker]

And now everyone learns why we warned against the Vong Fleet.

 

I hate you Warren, Vong series sucked enough, now this?

 

They werent invincible, from what I can tell the smaller ship is bassically a Endurance-class

 

The larger one is bassically an Imp II, but they have missile defenses with their Singularity abilities. There are ways around it.

[Aurbere]

And now everyone learns why we warned against the Vong Fleet.

 

I hate you Warren, Vong series sucked enough, now this?

 

What's wrong with ships with black hole defenses that suck up anything never to return? What's wrong with ships with weapons that go straight through shields and melt ships down?

 

/sarcasm

[karadron]

They werent invincible, from what I can tell the smaller ship is bassically a Endurance-class

 

The larger one is bassically an Imp II, but they have missile defenses with their Singularity abilities. There are ways around it.

 

I think Trench has the capability to find a way through the Vong ship defenses.

 

Dovin Basals also act as the engines to the Vong ships too. They can either move or shield themselves.

[Warren-Stride]

I think it's a mistake comparing the ground forces one on one. Obviously the Voxyn will not be going up against the Dark Troopers. And we're not supposed to discuss ground until later! But you did it first. So.

 

Voxyn [50] vs Phase III Dark Trooper [21] and Persuader-class droid enforcer [43]:

I do not see anything be a severe victory for the IDD in this case. In the Enforcer alone, I have 43 units, to the Voxyn 50. That is not even counting the 21 Dark Troopers! This actually makes me feel bad, makes me envision dogs whining as they charge at my lines.

 

The issue for the IDD here is the environment. Those treads aren't going to get the Persuader's very far on the big cityworld. The Phase III Dark Troopers also have an issue with their missiles. In such a tight fighting space, using missiles during battle could easily blow up some Phase I/II and/or hurt the other IDD vehicles in the impact radius.

 

Leviathan [6] vs OG-9 homing spider droid [21]:

While the Leviathans easily take the cake 1 vs 1, the fact that there are only 6 of them, and given the spill over from the light vehicles, I am inclined to think I have the advantage here as well. Not to mention the spider droids have a laser weapon that could penetrate its armor if concentrated. Though, it is also good to note, that I believe the Leviathans will be restricted to the under-city due to their sheer size, and inability to *fit* up above. They are not called Leviathans for nothing! Not to mention the spider droids can cling to the buildings themselves, basically becoming untouchable by the majority of the AiR forces. Similar to how the PII and PIII all have jetpacks if they become swarmed. *PI have something similar, but not really flight, more of just something that makes them move quick in short bursts.*

Firstly, if the Leviathans can't fit, neither can the OG-9. Those are huge and need TONS of space to move those legs. Secondly, I see no evidence that they can cling to walls. In fact, they're quite cumbersome.

 

Shall we not use game mechanics? Neither the Phase II or III have jet packs, and I'm not sure where you're getting the speed boost from for the Phase I. The Phase II DO have jump packs, which allow them to fly up into the air for maybe two seconds, but nothing more.

 

Killik Warriors [2,304] vs Phase I Dark Troopers [768]:

I do not doubt that the Killik's are skilled, but due to IG-88's trick, are they skilled enough? Not to mention, do they even have weaponry that can bring these guys down?

I fail to see how IG-88 would augment these in any way. Killiks also have natural exoskeleton armor and can carry blasters of vibroblades.

 

Nekghouls [100] vs Phase II Dark Troopers [128]:

I view the Nekghouls as about average, not quite trained, jedi padawans/knights. While they are lethal, I do not believe they have the deflection skills to survive the onslaught of the PII. Not to mention the droids are much easier to replace should they show how be destroyed. Phrik is quite strong. [/sPOiler]

Can you replace your Dark Troopers? Not so sure about that. They're prototypes, and you don't have the Arc Hammer.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Silenceo]

Made an edit to my last post you guys should look at, don't want you to simply pass it by without seeing it.

[Warren-Stride]

The boot of the Imperial Droid Division shall halt this insurrection before it manages to spread. It is Jerec's destiny.

 

Edit Side Note: The Vindicators light turbolasers will not be striking the capital ships. They will be helping to swat down the dart ships. How many fighter craft do you have? 1800 or so? *approximately how many I have*

 

If 1/3 of them are dart ships, then you have 1200 vs 1800 going on there, and those 600 are being swatted aside by the severe star fighter defenses my fleet has.

I'm not sure where you're getting 1/3 of all fighters are bombers. More like 1/10.

 

And I'm not saying dartships will throw themselves at the IDD fleet. But when there are +3500 fighters swarming over the battlefield, good luck determining which are friend and which are foe and then actually being able to hit the foe. It's not that easy.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Silenceo]

I'm not sure where you're getting 1/3 of all fighters are bombers. More like 1/10.

 

And I'm not saying dartships will throw themselves at the IDD fleet. But when there are +3500 fighters swarming over the battlefield, good luck determining which are friend and which are foe and then actually being able to hit the foe. It's not that easy.

 

The 1/3 was a random number just to show the most numerous scenario. My own fleet will be using the 4-1-1 system. 4 fighters per 1 bomber, per 1 interceptor/elite.

 

Side Note: Considering that my fighter screen will be out a ways from the vessels themselves, while the 45 guns per Vindicator *as well as the guns from the strikes* concentrate fire on the heavy capital ships. If any enemy fighters come within range, they will be shot down hopelessly. Though, the Tartans I wouldn't be surprised if they were on the edge of the fighter skirmish firing into concentrations of enemy ships.

 

After Thought: Another little exert that led to me using tartans.

 

"Armed with twenty laser cannons, the Tartan-class cruisers were designed for use against starfighters, bombers, and pirate vessels. Most notably, powerful sensor and computer systems enabled their guns to engage rapidly with swarms of small, swift targets, although these systems came at a hefty price."

 

While they are much larger than fighters, they actually could very nearly keep pace with them, as well as due to their powerful targeting systems, were able to accurately fire on enemy fighter craft.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Silenceo

[Warren-Stride]

So, I have more anti star fighter guns than you do dart ships, without even counting the strike class. Add to that the fact we have nearly equal star fighter numbers...and the fact that the Vengeance will be punching quite hard against the smaller vessels while the advantage is built up to over come the flagship... Quite an advantage, that anti-fighter...

 

A note on the Allegiance-class battlecruiser. THAT has no fighter defense at all. And, if you want your flagship to be able to pound the enemy ships, you've gotta give it an opening to do so.

 

So if the Vengeance is going to be firing at the smaller ships of AiR, that leaves it exposed to two things. Firstly, the fighters, as I mentioned. But secondly, and more importantly, to Yaret-kors. The Vengeance suffers from the same bridge weakness most Star Destroyers do. Fire a couple Yaret-Kors at it, watch them pass through the shield and turn the bridge into slag, and it's done for. If other ships get in the way to block the Yaret-Kors, burn them down too.

 

And then no more heavy turbolasers. Or Trench.

[Warren-Stride]

While they are much larger than fighters, they actually could very nearly keep pace with them, as well as due to their powerful targeting systems, were able to accurately fire on enemy fighter craft.

 

But what I'm saying is that when AiR fighters are dogfighting with IDD fighters, it will be firing blindly into a mass of flying ships. There's no way to ensure that you don't hit one of your own fighters.

[Silenceo]

But what I'm saying is that when AiR fighters are dogfighting with IDD fighters, it will be firing blindly into a mass of flying ships. There's no way to ensure that you don't hit one of your own fighters.

 

To ease your mind, they are droids, whereas your own are organics. Though, this is where the *droid hive mind* would come in, which would basically allow the fighters to know where the corvettes are and make it easy for them to unload on the enemy.

 

To paint a pretty picture, each Shadow droid directs 1 skipray, 4 TIE/D Automated, and itself. Normally this would be too much for one pilot, but due to their droid like nature, their severely increased reflexes, and their connection to the darkside...it makes it much easier to avoid friendly fire, as well as decimate enemy star fighters.

 

And while the Vengeance would be somewhat disposed, it would not advance without its escort of Vindictors, which have PLENTY of point defenses. Not to mention all of the tractor beams, on strike cruisers [10], and Vindicators [6].

Edited July 15, 2014 by Silenceo

[Silenceo]

This all reminds me...Don't all of the vong ships fire the same plasma? Only varying in size? Meaning due to the high number of point defenses, and tractor beams, it might be possible to deflect entire volleys, or at least stop them from hitting vital points...

[Warren-Stride]

To ease your mind, they are droids, whereas your own are organics. Though, this is where the *droid hive mind* would come in, which would basically allow the fighters to know where the corvettes are and make it easy for them to unload on the enemy.

 

Yeah, I'm not buying this droid hivemind. It's never been done before effectively, even by the CIS. If such a thing were possible, the CIS would have developed it instead of those commander droids.

 

You said you wanted IG-88 to do this? All IG-88 does is download "sentience" into other droids, which might make them smarter, but wouldn't create a hivemind.

 

And if the IDD WANTED IG-88 to make a hivemind... he'd go for it and stage a coup with his new servants. Just like that, clean the illogical organics (including Jerec) from the slate and continue the fight.

[Selenial]

Yeah, I'm not buying this droid hivemind. It's never been done before effectively, even by the CIS. If such a thing were possible, the CIS would have developed it instead of those commander droids.

 

You said you wanted IG-88 to do this? All IG-88 does is download "sentience" into other droids, which might make them smarter, but wouldn't create a hivemind.

 

And if the IDD WANTED IG-88 to make a hivemind... he'd go for it and stage a coup with his new servants. Just like that, clean the illogical organics (including Jerec) from the slate and continue the fight.

 

I'm still in arbiter mode, so sorry if this sounds Authoritarian.

 

The CIS weren't wlling to spend that amount of money, remember, strength in numbers was their cause.

 

IG-88 Cannot defect unless it's to the EoP, he cannot create his own faction, only defect to the enemy. And there's no point in that now is there.

[Silenceo]

Yeah, I'm not buying this droid hivemind. It's never been done before effectively, even by the CIS. If such a thing were possible, the CIS would have developed it instead of those commander droids.

 

You said you wanted IG-88 to do this? All IG-88 does is download "sentience" into other droids, which might make them smarter, but wouldn't create a hivemind.

 

And if the IDD WANTED IG-88 to make a hivemind... he'd go for it and stage a coup with his new servants. Just like that, clean the illogical organics (including Jerec) from the slate and continue the fight.

 

Tell me, has any other fighting force had droid fighters, as well as cyborg force sensitive fighters? No?

 

And without going into a long explanation, IG-88 will not defect. Why would he defect from an almost only droid force, to serve an entirely organic one? Remember, there can be no 3rd factions, as that would go against the rules of the Kaggath as I have heard of in the past.

[Aurbere]

If I may interject something about IG-88. I was under the impression that the allies had some measure of loyalty to their leaders, and I thought droids were programmed to be loyal to the faction leaders. This was the case for the Dark Imperium with HK and Traya.

[Selenial]

If I may interject something about IG-88. I was under the impression that the allies had some measure of loyalty to their leaders, and I thought droids were programmed to be loyal to the faction leaders. This was the case for the Dark Imperium with HK and Traya.

 

Sort of.

 

Yes they have loyalties, semii-strict loyalties though, they can be changed over. The only thing is, why would IG-88? He'd need a faction that continues to build droids, need the foundries in tact etc, there's no reason for him to defect.

 

Remembering of course that allies cannot fly solo.

[Aurbere]

Sort of.

 

Yes they have loyalties, semii-strict loyalties though, they can be changed over. The only thing is, why would IG-88? He'd need a faction that continues to build droids, need the foundries in tact etc, there's no reason for him to defect.

 

Remembering of course that allies cannot fly solo.

 

Oh, okay. I just keep remembering something about HK in the last series.

[Warren-Stride]

IG-88 Cannot defect unless it's to the EoP, he cannot create his own faction, only defect to the enemy. And there's no point in that now is there.

 

This wouldn't be defection. It would be betrayal. A coup. After the power transfer, he would still fight AiR. But the Kaggath would be over when Jerec dies.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Wolfninjajedi]

Oh, okay. I just keep remembering something about HK in the last series.

 

How dare you compare that insignificant assassin droid to the bestest one ever made!

Edited July 15, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Warren-Stride]

If I may interject something about IG-88. I was under the impression that the allies had some measure of loyalty to their leaders, and I thought droids were programmed to be loyal to the faction leaders. This was the case for the Dark Imperium with HK and Traya.

 

I was under the impression that leadership needed to mesh well together.

 

Giving IG-88 an army of droids but still expecting him answer to a biological is like giving Vader an army of Sith and still expecting him to answer to a Jedi.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Silenceo]

I was under the impression that leadership needed to mesh well together.

 

Giving IG-88 an army of droids but still expecting him answer to a biological is like giving Vader an army of Sith and still expecting him to answer to a Jedi.

 

Don't you mean Sideous? *Not to mention there WAS an army of "sith/dark jedi" he could take command of, yet he still served Sideous...*

Edited July 15, 2014 by Silenceo