Elfa Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Let's review, numerous characters talk about how much of a bad *** Anikin was He got beat by Obi-won and a half trained Luke. Seems like he wasn't that powerful after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 It seems you base your argument on a knowledge of only the movies. Is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) 1. Anakin was hindered throughout his fight with Obi-Wan, he hadn't fully embraced the darkside then. The only reason he lost was due to his blinding rage, if Anakin had been fighting at his best Obi-Wan wouldn't have won. 2. Luke wasn't half trained, he was a fully trained Jedi Knight and he only bested Vader due to going into a rage over the fact Vader said that he would turn Leia. Before that happened, the two were stalemating one another. Yes...Vader is powerful. He's one of the most powerful Force Users in SW and one of the greatest blademasters. Edited July 11, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I would hate it if Vader was not ''truly powerful'' cus the most often used weapons-saber and choke for my sith warrior which is a Vader prototype , makes my Sith Warrior have self esteem issues vs the way the Inquisitor uses the Force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Just gonna leave this here: http://www.comicvine.com/profile/dccomicsrule2011/blog/a-darth-vader-eu-tourney-respect-thread/93314/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfa Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Ah, but EU no longer is cannon and yes, I'm going off the films only as everything else is arguably fan made, regardless of it being done by professionals. You say Anakin only lost due to blinding rage but that's an impossible statement to prove unless the two fought the same duel all over again at the same age but without Anakin being enraged. As for Luke being half trained, Given film details only, I'd argue that other than a few saber lessons from Obi and maybe a couple years on Degobah at the most, Luke had only a small portion of a regular Jedi's training and mentoring. Also, Many would argue that Vader was less powerful after his injuries and while more experienced by the time of Luke, was also older and yet Luke only barely won thanks to becoming enraged (something you said cost Anakin the fight with Obi). Don't forget that Vader also spent 20 years being further tutored by the Emperor who even Yoda couldn't beat. So, I can only take away from these arguments that Vader was never more powerful than either Luke or Obi. I also take away that being enraged makes you weaker in a fight unless your anybody but Anakin Skywalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Well if you aren't considering EU, then who exactly are we comparing Vader to in order to say that he isn't that powerful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Ah, but EU no longer is cannon and yes, I'm going off the films only as everything else is arguably fan made, regardless of it being done by professionals. You say Anakin only lost due to blinding rage but that's an impossible statement to prove unless the two fought the same duel all over again at the same age but without Anakin being enraged. As for Luke being half trained, Given film details only, I'd argue that other than a few saber lessons from Obi and maybe a couple years on Degobah at the most, Luke had only a small portion of a regular Jedi's training and mentoring. Also, Many would argue that Vader was less powerful after his injuries and while more experienced by the time of Luke, was also older and yet Luke only barely won thanks to becoming enraged (something you said cost Anakin the fight with Obi). Don't forget that Vader also spent 20 years being further tutored by the Emperor who even Yoda couldn't beat. So, I can only take away from these arguments that Vader was never more powerful than either Luke or Obi. I also take away that being enraged makes you weaker in a fight unless your anybody but Anakin Skywalker.Its still an accurate portrayal of Vader's abilities. Regardless, wait until Lords of the Sith is released and we'll see just how powerful Vader really is. P.S. Kenobi didn't win against Anakin because he was a superior Force User, he merely managed to capitalized on Vader's rash condition and apply his own mastery of Soresu, but Vader learnt his mistakes from that fight. P.P.S. Luke possessed the potential of the Chosen One, and had an incredibly steep learning curve. Regardless of how long it took him to do so, he was a master saber duelist by the time of ROTJ and wielded great power. Edited July 11, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Even just counting the movies, Anakin WAS a better fighter than Obi-Wan still. So yes, Anakin lost due to hindrance of not fully having embraced the darkside yet and not having full control over his emotions. It's actually not impossible to prove, because we see it, Anakin as a Jedi was able to overcome Dooku by tapping into his rage/anger, yet he wasn't being so blind as to make a mistake. When he turned to the darkside, he was struggling with his emotional state. Hence why the scene before Padme arrives, we see him crying for the things he had just done. Anakin made a mistaken due to being overconfident with his new found power, of which he hadn't fully understood yet and it cost him the duel by trying to jump at Obi-Wan rather then think ahead of what his action would do. Edited July 11, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Regardless, wait until Lords of the Sith is released and we'll see just how powerful Vader really is. ***?? this is gonna be awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 P.S. Kenobi didn't win against Anakin Or anyone significant for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Or anyone significant for that matter. Really? You cut off the main point of that sentence for what reason now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Or anyone significant for that matter.General Grievous, Darth Maul, Savage Opress, Asajj Ventress the list goes on... yeah nobody significant at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 General Grievous, Darth Maul, Savage Opress, Asajj Ventress the list goes on... yeah nobody significant at all. All mooks compared to even the lowliest of TOR era Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) General Grievous, Darth Maul, Savage Opress, Asajj Ventress the list goes on... yeah nobody significant at all. Ehh GG and Maul were more plot related than anything....well movie anyway. Edited July 11, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Ehh GG and Maul were more plot related than anything....well movie anyway.He still beat them lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 He still beat them lol. I guess yeah lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfa Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 I love these sorts of debates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeStudlington Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Anakin was extremely powerful even in his cyborg form. He had a powerful command of the force, and the fact that Luke defeated him isn't a testament to his frailty of skill, but more of his frailty of heart as it was mentioned many times in the movies that good could be sensed in him. This gave him cause to pause in terms of defeating his son who probably reminded him of the knight he once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Anakin was extremely powerful even in his cyborg form. He had a powerful command of the force, and the fact that Luke defeated him isn't a testament to his frailty of skill, but more of his frailty of heart as it was mentioned many times in the movies that good could be sensed in him. This gave him cause to pause in terms of defeating his son who probably reminded him of the knight he once was. Not really, Vader had no qualms about killing Luke if he had to. He was giving it his all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callaron Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I always assumed Luke won for several reasons. Among them: 1) On some level Vader was holding back, since he didn't really want to kill his son. 2) He was past his prime when he fought Luke. After all, even the Emperor wanted to replace him with Luke at that point. But yes, he was powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 I always assumed Luke won for several reasons. Among them: 1) On some level Vader was holding back, since he didn't really want to kill his son. 2) He was past his prime when he fought Luke. After all, even the Emperor wanted to replace him with Luke at that point. But yes, he was powerful. 1. Vader wasn't holding back. 2. ROTJ was his prime, he wasn't past it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 IE none of this is a testament to Vader's "weakness" but instead a testament to Luke's STRENGTH. The issue is people arent realizing just how strong Luke really was and how quickly he advanced. That I believe is the real issue here. Even the official site lists Luke as Powerful by the time of RotJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) IE none of this is a testament to Vader's "weakness" but instead a testament to Luke's STRENGTH. The issue is people arent realizing just how strong Luke really was and how quickly he advanced. That I believe is the real issue here. Even the official site lists Luke as Powerful by the time of RotJ. That too and it's really not even an EU thing, the ROTJ novelization(which is right up there with the movies) state that Luke had grown powerful since last he and Vader met. Even in the movies, Vader and Palpatine remark on Luke's power....so where people get this idea that Luke wasn't trained or powerful is beyond me. Edited July 13, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorelle Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 Its still an accurate portrayal of Vader's abilities. Regardless, wait until Lords of the Sith is released and we'll see just how powerful Vader really is. P.S. Kenobi didn't win against Anakin because he was a superior Force User, he merely managed to capitalized on Vader's rash condition and apply his own mastery of Soresu, but Vader learnt his mistakes from that fight. P.P.S. Luke possessed the potential of the Chosen One, and had an incredibly steep learning curve. Regardless of how long it took him to do so, he was a master saber duelist by the time of ROTJ and wielded great power. well and it will be part of the new canon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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