OK this is getting rather silly regarding hard mode Flashpoint GF

[DarthTHC]

I'm sure there are plenty of people that don't queue because of bad pugging experiences, but I'd be willing to be the real systemic reason why there are fewer tanks in all games is... wait for it... they kill things slower and their emphasis isn't on being the biggest ****** in the room. It's that simple.

 

The fact that it's harder is only part of it - this is a very human, emotional decision being made by players, and it's not based on GF experience or because it's too inconvenient to swap specs.... it's because more people think its really cool and fun to beat the ever loving crap out of baddies than it is to be the punching bag that makes it so everyone else can beat up the baddies.

 

It's that simple.

 

Have you played a tank?

 

On mine, I never have to stop and rarely have to slow down. Yes, a DD might kill ONE mob group more quickly than a tank (I play DD's too) but overall, a tank with a healer companion never has to stop. A DD does. Unless, of course he seriously over-levels content but then what's the point?

 

The tank isn't harder. Playing a DD correctly is oftentimes harder than playing a tank or healer. The problem is that we've all grown so accustomed to DD's being idiots who can barely scrape together the brain cells to play whack-a-mole that we don't expect decent play out of them. Things like CC'ing as appropriate, re-CC'ing when things go unexpectedly, staying out of AOE's and DOT's, cleansing themselves, positioning correctly, peeling loose adds off the healer, etc. etc. etc.

Edited July 11, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Daekarus]

Have you played a tank?

 

On mine, I never have to stop and rarely have to slow down. Yes, a DD might kill ONE mob group more quickly than a tank (I play DD's too) but overall, a tank with a healer companion never has to stop. A DD does. Unless, of course he seriously over-levels content but then what's the point?

 

The tank isn't harder. Playing a DD correctly is oftentimes harder than playing a tank or healer. The problem is that we've all grown so accustomed to DD's being idiots who can barely scrape together the brain cells to play whack-a-mole that we don't expect decent play out of them. Things like CC'ing as appropriate, re-CC'ing when things go unexpectedly, staying out of AOE's and DOT's, cleansing themselves, positioning correctly, peeling loose adds off the healer, etc. etc. etc.

 

My main is a tank, and I have played one of the DPS trees when I leveled the mirror class. My personal experience was that I could burn through mobs faster as a DPS, and that having a DPS companion out as a tank did not compensate for that. I'm certainly not saying I want to ditch my tank - I like the survivability and options it offers, and I'm not fussed about getting through things as fast as possible. Still, I disagree with your assertion that, downtime for healing included, tanks are just as fast. I would also suggest that not only are tanks slower, they also feel slower and less powerful during every situation except when you're absorbing a ridiculous amount of fire while slowly grinding your way through content that you really have no business soloing.

 

That disparity in how powerful a spec feels is one reason (the animations, text, and even the idea of the different roles contribute) that that people will naturally gravitate towards DPS. I love my tank, but I learned long ago that if I like something, chances are the majority of people will like something else.

[ninjonxb]

My main is a tank, and I have played one of the DPS trees when I leveled the mirror class. My personal experience was that I could burn through mobs faster as a DPS, and that having a DPS companion out as a tank did not compensate for that. I'm certainly not saying I want to ditch my tank - I like the survivability and options it offers, and I'm not fussed about getting through things as fast as possible. Still, I disagree with your assertion that, downtime for healing included, tanks are just as fast. I would also suggest that not only are tanks slower, they also feel slower and less powerful during every situation except when you're absorbing a ridiculous amount of fire while slowly grinding your way through content that you really have no business soloing.

 

That disparity in how powerful a spec feels is one reason (the animations, text, and even the idea of the different roles contribute) that that people will naturally gravitate towards DPS. I love my tank, but I learned long ago that if I like something, chances are the majority of people will like something else.

 

I think it depends on personality...

 

But (as far a solo content) there is something to be said for playing a (decently geared) tank and feeling like you can take on every mob on the map and live to tell the tale (even if it takes a while). Especially if you have a good healer companion out.

[Daekarus]

I think it depends on personality...

 

But (as far a solo content) there is something to be said for playing a (decently geared) tank and feeling like you can take on every mob on the map and live to tell the tale (even if it takes a while). Especially if you have a good healer companion out.

 

This is why I play a tank. You don't get that feeling as a DPS. However, if everyone felt like that was a good reason to play a tank, we'd have too many tanks and not enough DPS, so obviously I'm in the minority.

 

Honestly, back at launch I started my very first toon as a Commando (went for the big gun), got through a few levels, didn't care for the survivability the DPS role offered, and rerolled a Vanguard. She's been my main ever since, and none of my experiences levelling other characters as DPS has made me regret the choice.

[Callaron]

Have you played a tank?

 

On mine, I never have to stop and rarely have to slow down. Yes, a DD might kill ONE mob group more quickly than a tank (I play DD's too) but overall, a tank with a healer companion never has to stop. A DD does. Unless, of course he seriously over-levels content but then what's the point?

 

The tank isn't harder. Playing a DD correctly is oftentimes harder than playing a tank or healer. The problem is that we've all grown so accustomed to DD's being idiots who can barely scrape together the brain cells to play whack-a-mole that we don't expect decent play out of them. Things like CC'ing as appropriate, re-CC'ing when things go unexpectedly, staying out of AOE's and DOT's, cleansing themselves, positioning correctly, peeling loose adds off the healer, etc. etc. etc.

 

I know what you mean, playing my powertech with Mako healing the few scratches he suffers every now and then is pretty awesome.

It's not all that different on my Merc though. The only difference is that I occasionally have to launch a Kolto missile at my feet while I'm moving to the next group of mobs.

Now a Marauder... that's a different story... on those I frequently find myself hitting the "Rest" button between fights.

[ninjonxb]

This is why I play a tank. You don't get that feeling as a DPS. However, if everyone felt like that was a good reason to play a tank, we'd have too many tanks and not enough DPS, so obviously I'm in the minority.

 

Honestly, back at launch I started my very first toon as a Commando (went for the big gun), got through a few levels, didn't care for the survivability the DPS role offered, and rerolled a Vanguard. She's been my main ever since, and none of my experiences levelling other characters as DPS has made me regret the choice.

 

I wouldnt say that is why I play a tank, but it makes Solo fun.

 

Same here, I started out tanking at launch as an Assassin. Now I raid with all 3 (main is powertech).

[Lotharofxev]

Lately on my server (SL), it's healers that are in short supply. At least insofar as ops.

[Trevalon]

Didn't read the whole thread but as someone who has been playing the tank in MMO's for the last 15 years (Started with a Warrior in EQ1 1999 and have played a tank in almost every MMO since)

 

All I see is alot of whiny tanks in this thread. Ahh the DPS pulls agro. Ahh the DPS uses knockback. Ahh the dps blames me if something goes wrong.

 

Grow a pair if you want to tank and do your job. If a DPS does a knocback then go get the mob. If someone pulls agro then either let them tank and go on with your job or get the agro back like you should be. If someone complains to you cause something isn't perfect, who the freak cares - is that person's opinion so mind crushing to you that you just "dont tank HM's anymore" because someone "might be mean to me" lol - get over it and grow some thicker skin.

 

If you think tanking is too stressful or you dislike "leading" groups (because usually the tank is required to lead the group) or you think tanks have too many buttons then that is all valid reasons to not play a tank.

 

If you don't play your tank cause someone was mean to you in group finder then perhaps you shouldn't be playing at all.

[LordArtemis]

I think if tacticals are having any detrimental effect on the game, it is mostly in simply demonstrating that trinity is not needed when designing end game content.

 

Naturally those that enjoy trinity will decry tacticals, and that doesn't mean they are not right...after all, trinity is villified far too often IMO. However, I believe it does exist as a gate to end game content for casuals, which I also believe is the majority playerbase.

 

I think in the end there is room for both, since players that engage in traditional end game content are just as important as those that do not. But I think tacticals accept and embrace reality.

 

One does not have to replace the other IMO.

[demotivator]

I think if tacticals are having any detrimental effect on the game, it is mostly in simply demonstrating that trinity is not needed when designing end game content.

 

Naturally those that enjoy trinity will decry tacticals, and that doesn't mean they are not right...after all, trinity is villified far too often IMO. However, I believe it does exist as a gate to end game content for casuals, which I also believe is the majority playerbase.

 

Go ahead. Run the Tython or Korriban flashpoint with 4 pure DPS (that means none of these classes that can toss some heals around like commando/mercenary) and don't use any kolto station for the boss encounters.

 

Then come back and tell us again how the trinity is useless.

Edited July 13, 2014 by demotivator

[Kalfear]

As you watch your health drop slowly down to 0% because you boosted to 800 meters away from your healer & he has no chance of getting within range, much less getting a heal off before you died.

 

 

 

I am of the opposite opinion. I loathe tactical flash points & see them as a detriment to the game as a whole. We have a whole generation of players birthed from KDY that have not clue 1 of how to play their class in a real team setting. I further believe that many of these "KDY Grads" are the folks being described here as the people making good tanks stay the hell away from group finder.

 

I love the tacticals but will agree with bolded part

 

Im NOT A FAN of players leveling by running KDY over and over as it gives them no real foundation of understanding for their class.

 

But honestly thats becoming a common issue outside KDY anyways with how fast people level up with double xp week ends and weeks and bonus xp buffs for a game that already was leveling much to fast and easy.

 

Case in point. I just leveled my Inq from 26-54 in roughly 2 weeks play total (thats not time played, thats playing normal hours in roughly 14 days period )

Yes there was double xp week end in there that I played on for 1 day of the week (was rehabing shoulder from surgery so couldnt play before that) and 2 more days as my Sniper but we talking Inquiz here)

 

Didnt do a single PVP match

Didnt do a single flashpoint

Finished main storyline (up to and including Corellia...no black hole or bonus series) just tonight at LEVEL 54.5

 

2 weeks, no xp buffs (other then the 1 day of double xp)

 

Still have all the bonus series to do (which will easily get me 55 before ever stepping foot on Makeb, CZ, Black Hole, Section X, Oricon.

 

So easy fast xp is just a problem with this games basic design

But I do agree leveling in KDY produces some very confused and lost players

I'm not a fan of it but know that's one issue getting worked up about will just frustrate me needlessly.

 

LOL, other day a hard mode popped

Tank had 16k hps and was wearing non modable blue gear

He was fresh out of KDY (his words) and PVP and had no clue what to do now he was 55 so queued up for hardmodes because he didnt know any better.

 

But that's never going to change so we may as well except that particular down fall of game design.

 

Lets be honest tho, all MMORPGs since (and including) WOW have been easy mode MMORPGs.

They all level far to fast and reward far to much xp per kill

WOW, RIFT, SW:TOR, Neverwinter, Defiance, and more

They all Easy mode when it comes to leveling and combat while leveling

Its how the genre is now a days

Edited July 13, 2014 by Kalfear

[TalantM]

Right, the first 17 pages have pretty much covered this, But I'll rehash, sure.

 

My main on each side is a guardian tank and sniper dps, respectively, both of which are doing hm df or dp every week. Tanking is much more demanding. The dps doesn't have to know the tank mechanics, they're not relivant to them asside from where to stand, but the tanks have to know, so they can give instructions, and be prepared to respond to every dps mechanic in case the dps drop the ball or get stunned or teleported or something, which happens a great deal.

 

I don't think that's what pushes people away though. I know people who used to tank, were ok with how demanding it was, and now don't because, and i deal with it pretty much whenever i do a pug (not often), EVERYTHING is my fualt. no matter what happened, or why, or how detailed my instructions were, even if they didn't follow them and got themselves, and me, killed, it's somehow my fualt. Dogs kill you in mandoalorian raiders, because you broght them to the boss like a tard? Tanks fualt. Pushed a phase to fast and now there are 4 turrets up to kill the healer? Tanks fualt. Death field broke the CC's and got everybody swarmed by golds? Tanks fualt. Sandstorm murderes everybody because you didn't stand where the guardian asked you to for a friendly leap? Tanks fualt. Now, sometimes it actually is the tanks fualt. But the competent tanks are generally aware of that, and the crappy tanks are (in my experience) the ones in terrible gear (and i don't mean 162's, I mean mostly coms gear or with their stats weighted all wrong) or the wrong stance. TBH i run into more of these in KDY than anything else

 

Now, i run with a healer friend, and fortuantely most of the healers i deal with in pugs are competent and see these things happen and so we just boot the imbicile/s responsible and get more or just 2 man it with companions, and i can always leverage my position as tank if need be to make sure they follow my instruciotns (or have fun in que for 3 hours waiting for 1.)

 

That said, I don't want to, or need to, deal with that crap when i can just ask in guild and have several competent and reasonably well geared dps respond almost instantly. Even if I do que, it's a safe bet there are like 6 times as many dps as there are tanks so the chances that you are the one who gets me is fairly low.

 

Want to do flashpoints? Join a guild. If you don't want to join a guild, talk to and friend the tanks, get to be known to them as competent and easy to deal with and they're more likely to invite you, or respond to an invite next, time you go to do one. Know your class and how to work as a team. Follow the tanks instructions (unless you can present a superior plan, tanks give instructions for an encounter based on what that tank class can/cannot do, the sandstorm in czerka core is a good example. Shadows can teleport/force speed to stop it, vanguards can hold the line to run faster and avoid the slam/root the boss throws out, guardians can do neither. They very nearly require a dps or a healer to run there ahead of them so they can guardian leap into position. just for example) Leave the positioning to the tanks unless they ask. If the tank is an ***, grin and bear it (as bull**** as that is) because you need them, and they don't need you. If you change the attitude displayed towards tanks, and actually know the class/mechanics or warn them that you don't, it's a safe bet that we'd be more willing to que.

 

If you really, really want to do hm flashpoints though, and those other things seem hard or don't cut it, roll a tank. Tank ques in my experience rarily take more than half an hour. I also learned very quickly learn to distinguish my mistakes from the mistakes of the dps as a tank, so hopefully that will be true of others as well.

Edited July 13, 2014 by TalantM

[Dras_Keto]

Theres actually an over abundance of "tanks" on my server. Most are freaking terrible, but still I almost never get slotted into the tank roll when I queue up. Then the only problem is convincing yet another noob that guarding the healer is not going to help when Ive got 7k more hp than they do in a nearly perfect dps set.

 

Basically, Bioware needs to man up and merge the server queues. We already know they have the architecture to do it. And there are a number of ways they can put it into practice.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Dras_Keto

[Aries_cz]

I think if tacticals are having any detrimental effect on the game, it is mostly in simply demonstrating that trinity is not needed when designing end game content.

 

Naturally those that enjoy trinity will decry tacticals, and that doesn't mean they are not right...after all, trinity is villified far too often IMO. However, I believe it does exist as a gate to end game content for casuals, which I also believe is the majority playerbase.

 

I think in the end there is room for both, since players that engage in traditional end game content are just as important as those that do not. But I think tacticals accept and embrace reality.

 

One does not have to replace the other IMO.

 

As was stated before, you are wrong. Removing the need for trinity requires to have "healing stations" around, and it also removes any tactics beside "move out of circles". These fights are not really difficult, unless someone messes up something pretty bad. Tactical FPs fulfill their role, they provide a venue for DPS to run something, but at a cost of making it ludicrously primitive.

[LordArtemis]

As was stated before, you are wrong. Removing the need for trinity requires to have "healing stations" around, and it also removes any tactics beside "move out of circles". These fights are not really difficult, unless someone messes up something pretty bad. Tactical FPs fulfill their role, they provide a venue for DPS to run something, but at a cost of making it ludicrously primitive.

 

And I am of the opinion that I am NOT WRONG, you do not need the terminals. There are plenty of times when they are not used. That dispels that claim right there. The existence of Tacticals, therefore, proves to me that Trinity is not required unless the mission is designed to require it.

 

You do not need heals any more than you would in the normal world fighting a serious boss or in a heroic. Having them is a bonus and perhaps saves you a pot, or saves you from making mistakes. But I have completed KUAT many times without a single heal...using strategy, both personal and group, even when fighting tough golds.

 

There is nothing wrong with contending my view is valid or incorrect, nor is there anything wrong with lauding or denouncing the existence of tacticals. There is something wrong with doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Repeating the idea that I am wrong is a silly practice at best. The point has been made.

 

Hopefully that clears this up.

Edited July 13, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Aries_cz]

And I am of the opinion that I am NOT WRONG, you do not need the terminals. There are plenty of times when they are not used. That dispels that claim right there. The existence of Tacticals, therefore, proves to me that Trinity is not required unless the mission is designed to require it.

 

You do not need heals any more than you would in the normal world fighting a serious boss or in a heroic. Having them is a bonus and perhaps saves you a pot, or saves you from making mistakes. But I have completed KUAT many times without a single heal...using strategy, both personal and group, even when fighting tough golds.

 

There is nothing wrong with contending my view is valid or incorrect, nor is there anything wrong with lauding or denouncing the existence of tacticals. There is something wrong with doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Repeating the idea that I am wrong is a silly practice at best. The point has been made.

 

Hopefully that clears this up.

 

Unless your class can heal, you NEED these stations. I proved that to myself this week, when I was bringing my Powertech with 2 Snipers and Jugg (or something like that, simply put, classes without heals) through KDY. We were lower levels, which does not matter in Kuat, but we would have been massacred by Master Koris,if we did not use the stations (and we did wipe once, because we used them prematurely at one point).

 

And the absence of tank (or the possibility of absence of a tank/class with taunts) limits any possible tactics to a very limited subset, lowering the difficulty to something even 6yo could handle (not bashing on all 6yo, but I think they might have some problems with fights like Tanks in EC for example).

 

I do not have anything against tacticals, yes they do prove that it IS possible to build something that does not need trinity, but some help must be provided (heals stations) and it lowers the challenge of the content to almost nothing. Also, GW2 tried to build itself around of "no trinity", and all its fights are mess, until players forced trinity upon themselves to make the fights bearable.

[LordArtemis]

Unless your class can heal, you NEED these stations. I proved that to myself this week, when I was bringing my Powertech with 2 Snipers and Jugg (or something like that, simply put, classes without heals) through KDY. We were lower levels, which does not matter in Kuat, but we would have been massacred by Master Koris,if we did not use the stations (and we did wipe once, because we used them prematurely at one point).

 

Well Aries, I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this point.

 

And the absence of tank (or the possibility of absence of a tank/class with taunts) limits any possible tactics to a very limited subset, lowering the difficulty to something even 6yo could handle (not bashing on all 6yo, but I think they might have some problems with fights like Tanks in EC for example).

 

Again, I think it is better to respect your opinion and simply agree to disagree. I doubt you and I are going to meet minds on this, and it is best to let your posts stand as is and let folks make up their own minds.

 

I do not have anything against tacticals, yes they do prove that it IS possible to build something that does not need trinity, but some help must be provided (heals stations) and it lowers the challenge of the content to almost nothing. Also, GW2 tried to build itself around of "no trinity", and all its fights are mess, until players forced trinity upon themselves to make the fights bearable.

 

Again, I have to defer to my previous statement. I appreciate the discussion.

[Warrgames]

And I am of the opinion that I am NOT WRONG, you do not need the terminals. There are plenty of times when they are not used. That dispels that claim right there. The existence of Tacticals, therefore, proves to me that Trinity is not required unless the mission is designed to require it.

 

You do not need heals any more than you would in the normal world fighting a serious boss or in a heroic. Having them is a bonus and perhaps saves you a pot, or saves you from making mistakes. But I have completed KUAT many times without a single heal...using strategy, both personal and group, even when fighting tough golds.

 

There is nothing wrong with contending my view is valid or incorrect, nor is there anything wrong with lauding or denouncing the existence of tacticals. There is something wrong with doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Repeating the idea that I am wrong is a silly practice at best. The point has been made.

 

Hopefully that clears this up.

 

I would love to see the video of a group doing a tact without a single heal....

[LordArtemis]

I would love to see the video of a group doing a tact without a single heal....

 

You are welcome to make one yourself then.

 

You wouldn't be trying to insinuate I'm being dishonest again, would you Wargames?

Edited July 13, 2014 by LordArtemis

[TalantM]

well of course you don't unless the mission design requires it. That's neither questionable, nor an arguement for anything.

 

The problem is that when content doesn't require the trinity, it's hilariously easy with the trinity, no matter how hard it is for 4 dps to do a flashpoint, unless it's a straight up dps check, a healer and or a tank make it hilariously easy by dramatically reducing or nullifying the damage the party takes, thus enableing them to dps longer. However many mechanics you put in a flashpoint, that's pretty much just the truth of the matter. The roles are designed to work together, it is a tried and true method of doing things in real life (although the healing bit, both with soldiers and machines like tanks, goes much slower.)

 

The tactical flashpoints, being designed to be done by any 4 rolls, are required to have fairly low levels of outgoing damage, or healing stations, because dps can't take much punishment, (ignoreing cooldowns, a heavy armor dps class has like 25 or 30%dr from armor, a guardian tank has 45% from armor, 21% from defense, 16% from shield/absorb for a total of 76% damage reduction) and infrequent, or nonexsistant time based mechanics (adds spawning or enrages), because 4 tanks or healers aren't going to pass a dps check.

 

Now, this, in effect, makes them hilariously easy. Any dps check that 4 tanks can do is nothing to 4 dps, if the damage is low enough to not require a healer or tank (with or without healing stations) then having one meanes that the person with the boss is basically invincible (assuming they avoid mechanics damage) because the outgoing damage is absurdly low or they have access to heals via the station. This is a bad design choice. It effectively requires no serious understanding of any class or even basic battle strategies to accomplish, by desigen, because it has to be doable by parties incapable of executing such strategies.

[LordArtemis]

I don't believe it is a bad design choice at all. I think it is a design choice that falls in line with making content more accessible to casual players.

 

I think that having end game content that does not require trinity is a good move for many reasons, but that it should NOT be the only or primary design aspect of end game.

 

End game must comprise both casual friendly and hardcore friendly content to be viable and competitive in the MMO market IMO. There is room for both.

Edited July 13, 2014 by LordArtemis

[TalantM]

You can say literally any arguement reguarding the general lowering of the difficulty and knowledge of mechanics, both of the enemies and of your class is a good move for making the game more accessible to casual players. Not really a valid arguement if it applies to everything all the time.

 

It's also not seperated at all. There aren't flashpoints that are 4 dps only, and nor will there be because it's a hugely limiting factor on who is allowed to do them based on what role they are as opposed to how much work they've actually put in (you don't get to do nm DF without being pretty much full 180 setbonus gear, which takes a ton of work and it a gateing factor as well, but being full 180 setbonus gear is a reasonably effective way of making very sure that the person has extensive knowledge of thier class and how it works as well as knowledge of the boss mechanics and is generally competent, where being a d 55 dps requires none of that and is gating arbitrarily and alienating players, which is pretty much the opposite of mass appeal, casual or otherwise) If there were or would be such flash points, then the "stuff that doesn't require the trinity" thing might actually function, because it could be designed with that in mind and be setup as a exercise in tactial combat and a strenuous dps check. That's not what tacticals are, even if that was there intent, because of the probelms with the basic functionality of the roles i described before.

 

In all honesty, unless you're doing czerka core (which requires people be either fairly well geared or really really good) HM flashpoints are the content for casual players. They require the trinity because with how the roles work, in pretty much every game where you can control who gets to take the damage (wether it's formal roles or not) the trinity is far and away the most effective way of handeling the situation and there isn't a way around that.

 

If you don't like it, roll a tank, or do dailies, or do heroics. Section x and black hole both have heroic areas that don't require a tank or healer, and so does makeb, and oricon, and illum,.

Edited July 13, 2014 by TalantM

[Warrgames]

You are welcome to make one yourself then.

 

You wouldn't be trying to insinuate I'm being dishonest again, would you Wargames?

 

From my experience people use those packs multi times, so hearing that it can be done without it is something I would like to see. I enjoy watching videos of impressive and crazy things people do in mmo. Since you are the only person I've heard say it can be done without healing.

[jorill]

From my experience people use those packs multi times, so hearing that it can be done without it is something I would like to see. I enjoy watching videos of impressive and crazy things people do in mmo. Since you are the only person I've heard say it can be done without healing.

 

ive been in a group where it was done but it was 3 tanks and i was a healer plus all the tanks were overgeared and i never healed once. if its a full dps group though i really dont know how its possible as i dont think you will be able to mitigate enough damage to survive

[Kalfear]

From my experience people use those packs multi times, so hearing that it can be done without it is something I would like to see. I enjoy watching videos of impressive and crazy things people do in mmo. Since you are the only person I've heard say it can be done without healing.

 

As I said earlier I have done Tacticals with out ever touching a healing terminal (when I play as my sage healer)

 

But Ive never seen a group with out a healer actually run it with out using the terminals at least a few times

 

I suppose you could pull it off if it was 2 dps classes of Commando/Merc and/or Agent/Smuggler (both DPS having baseline heals to offer up while in DPS spec)

 

But having said that, certain Tacticals still hit hard enough (if your DPS numbers lower for a group) that using the terminals just make it a smoother run

 

Czerka Core Melt Down (Desert Boss)

Assault on Tython (that first boss outside temple where he stands in middle and adds come from corners while they fill surface with high damage circles)

 

Those 2 boss fights come to mind as frequent usage of the healing terminals