A PvP a Day...

[Ballroompirate]

I agree 150% if that's even possible. You don't have to baby people, but you don't have to rub their faces in defeat, tell them to unsub, and general treat them like "why are you even HERE in MY warzone?" If you are a vet in a WZ and you see some newbs, why not take that as an opportunity to set an example, show them how good play happens, instead of just quiting?

 

I've seen plenty of examples of good players yes, CARRYING, their team. Giving helpful instructions, being where they need to be to get the job done, and generally just making a win for the team without crowing about it. A node gets taken, go help take it back. The first door goes down quick in VS? Well with the 2nd doors so easy to get back and forth between, go be that person that always seems to be there to stop the enemy from planting at the last second when they think they've cleared the field. All the "newbs" left the pylon unguarded, instead of typing into chat "BAD TEAM NO ONE GUARDED", instead type "hey, pylon's ungaurded I'm going there now" and go guard the thing yourself.

 

Ok, sorry, I got on my high-horse a bit there.

 

And grats to Exude for sticking with it! If you are on Harb, I think I'm safe in saying feel free to hit up any "s-key to victory" members any time for some grouping and/or if you have questions. We may not be serious when we PvP, but we take PvP seriously... er, wait, did that come out right?

 

1-2 people can't carry a 8vs8, specially if the majority of the team is....to put it simple bad.

 

I've given up trying to teach people the basics of pvp (can't really teach em classes cause I'm learning as well) which some people just cannot grab a hold of even though Swtor's pvp system is over a decade old and has been in other MMO's. Hell it's even basic logic, do I kill the tank, healer or dps first type of logic.

 

I don't know how many times I've marked healers in pvp and /s in chat healer is marked, just to see no one touching the healer and letting him/her free cast, it's beyond frustrating. Then you look at peoples gear to find they are missing implants, using under lvl gear by 25 lvls ect ect it's just.....speechless, it's like they're trying to ruin the team by not caring.

 

People need to realize they get more for winning in pvp compared to losing, specially after the buff to exp, comms and creds.

[aerockyul]

1-2 people can't carry a 8vs8, specially if the majority of the team is....to put it simple bad.

 

I've given up trying to teach people the basics of pvp (can't really teach em classes cause I'm learning as well) which some people just cannot grab a hold of even though Swtor's pvp system is over a decade old and has been in other MMO's. Hell it's even basic logic, do I kill the tank, healer or dps first type of logic.

 

I don't know how many times I've marked healers in pvp and /s in chat healer is marked, just to see no one touching the healer and letting him/her free cast, it's beyond frustrating. Then you look at peoples gear to find they are missing implants, using under lvl gear by 25 lvls ect ect it's just.....speechless, it's like they're trying to ruin the team by not caring.

 

People need to realize they get more for winning in pvp compared to losing, specially after the buff to exp, comms and creds.

 

In the example I gave it really was as simple as telling me to follow two people. They knew what they were doing and I didn't. After the second go I was already pulling mvp votes (from more than the two guys I was playing with) because I didn't feel completely overwhelmed by the new play style that I was completely not used to. It really was as simple as that. Telling someone new to immediately go f*** themselves (in all its variations) is completely counterproductive to the winning environment you're hoping for

[Zakmonster]

I agree 150% if that's even possible. You don't have to baby people, but you don't have to rub their faces in defeat, tell them to unsub, and general treat them like "why are you even HERE in MY warzone?" If you are a vet in a WZ and you see some newbs, why not take that as an opportunity to set an example, show them how good play happens, instead of just quiting?

 

I've seen plenty of examples of good players yes, CARRYING, their team. Giving helpful instructions, being where they need to be to get the job done, and generally just making a win for the team without crowing about it. A node gets taken, go help take it back. The first door goes down quick in VS? Well with the 2nd doors so easy to get back and forth between, go be that person that always seems to be there to stop the enemy from planting at the last second when they think they've cleared the field. All the "newbs" left the pylon unguarded, instead of typing into chat "BAD TEAM NO ONE GUARDED", instead type "hey, pylon's ungaurded I'm going there now" and go guard the thing yourself.

 

Ok, sorry, I got on my high-horse a bit there.

 

And grats to Exude for sticking with it! If you are on Harb, I think I'm safe in saying feel free to hit up any "s-key to victory" members any time for some grouping and/or if you have questions. We may not be serious when we PvP, but we take PvP seriously... er, wait, did that come out right?

 

 

I guard the side node in ACW - the team can't kill anyone in mid.

 

I got to mid to help out the offense and focus healers - we lose the side node to a stealther. Also, no one else is helping me kill healers in mid, so we're actually getting nowhere and I'm getting my butt kicked by the enemy team who want me off their healer.

 

Sometimes I can do everything possible in a WZ but make no difference, because my entire team is undergeared, not trying, or not paying attention. And when this starts happening the entire night, it can get frustrating.

 

 

(If it's pre-60 PvP, though, I don't mind as much, because it's safe to assume they're still pretty new to PvP. No excuses at 60, though, you had plenty of chances to learn before hitting the level cap.)

[AlrikFassbauer]

I don't know how many times I've marked healers in pvp and /s in chat healer is marked, just to see no one touching the healer and letting him/her free cast, it's beyond frustrating.

 

Typical "Curse Of Knowledge" problem : You didn't tell them what this mark was actually for !

 

"Hm. He has marked a healer. From the other team. Fine. Now, what does this mean ? Is he especially dangerours ? Should we stay away from that one ?

Is he a friend of our buddy ? Does he want to say "hello" to him ? Is this a way to tease a good friend ?"

"Well ... I dunno what YOU think, but I say ya : as long as he doesn't explain it, I'll stay clear from that one, buddy !"

[aerockyul]

I guard the side node in ACW - the team can't kill anyone in mid.

 

I got to mid to help out the offense and focus healers - we lose the side node to a stealther. Also, no one else is helping me kill healers in mid, so we're actually getting nowhere and I'm getting my butt kicked by the enemy team who want me off their healer.

 

Sometimes I can do everything possible in a WZ but make no difference, because my entire team is undergeared, not trying, or not paying attention. And when this starts happening the entire night, it can get frustrating.

 

 

(If it's pre-60 PvP, though, I don't mind as much, because it's safe to assume they're still pretty new to PvP. No excuses at 60, though, you had plenty of chances to learn before hitting the level cap.)

 

I've felt this way all week. I and MAYBE two others are busting our asses trying to achieve the objectives while the rest of the team hangs out at one node; 100% ignores the marked healer; drops in the middle of matches while the teams are still close to even; zero healers queuing for our side; only one tank (me) protecting while getting no heals; no node defense to speak of, etc.

 

I would love it if a newb asked me for tips in these matches, because I'd have a sense of purpose in instructing them instead of the empty feeling of having been dropped into a meat grinder for 2-15 minutes at a time while one of the "elites" in the group is flaming the rest of the team while not actually doing anything themselves.

[Banderal]

I guard the side node in ACW - the team can't kill anyone in mid.

 

I got to mid to help out the offense and focus healers - we lose the side node to a stealther. Also, no one else is helping me kill healers in mid, so we're actually getting nowhere and I'm getting my butt kicked by the enemy team who want me off their healer.

 

Sometimes I can do everything possible in a WZ but make no difference, because my entire team is undergeared, not trying, or not paying attention. And when this starts happening the entire night, it can get frustrating.

 

 

(If it's pre-60 PvP, though, I don't mind as much, because it's safe to assume they're still pretty new to PvP. No excuses at 60, though, you had plenty of chances to learn before hitting the level cap.)

 

Well, I did say I got up on my high-horse a bit.

 

Of course there are teams where there's no way you are going to go win it, even with another one or two people who know what they are doing and are trying to win. I still maintain that doesn't mean you (the generic "you", not YOU) should just give up and quit.

 

I don't know him from Adam, except for his posts in this thread, but look at some of the posts from Cox_the_beast. I think those are good examples of exactly what I'm talking about. He seems to be able to take a look at what his team is doing, what the other team is doing, and adjust his own play to try to maximize his team's strengths and the enemy's weaknesses. And he tells his team what he's doing!

 

Does he win every game? I'd call him a liar if he said "yes". But he's demonstrating to his team that you don't have to just "lie there and take it" if you are not as experienced/good as the other side.

 

One of my strengths (maybe my only one), so I've been told, is watching the flow of the match and figuring out where to go before the "inc" call comes. I didn't learn that because people were raging at me, or quitting out of disgust because we lost the first door in VS after no inc call came. I learned that because people were doing it to my team. I was like "how the heck does THAT person always seem to be everywhere!". So when I got on the same side THAT person, I followed her around and paid attention to when and what she did.

 

I can't believe I'm the only one that sees good players and goes, "I gotta figure out how to be like him when I grow up!"? But when people type in chat, "this team sucks" and then quit, I never think "wow, I gotta learn how to do that!". In fact, when I start to feel like typing that into chat, I finish the match I'm in and then just quit the game for a while.

[aerockyul]

Typical "Curse Of Knowledge" problem : You didn't tell them what this mark was actually for !

 

"Hm. He has marked a healer. From the other team. Fine. Now, what does this mean ? Is he especially dangerours ? Should we stay away from that one ?

Is he a friend of our buddy ? Does he want to say "hello" to him ? Is this a way to tease a good friend ?"

"Well ... I dunno what YOU think, but I say ya : as long as he doesn't explain it, I'll stay clear from that one, buddy !"

 

I would agree with you in some cases but I can clearly see in chat that whoever marked the healer says "healer is marked" most of the time and then I either a) become the only one attacking the healer (not even the guy who marked the healer is attacking) and quickly die thanks to the healer's 4-5 man escort, or b) get stuck defending a node while the rest of the team ignores the mark and the guy who marked the healer is yelling in ALL CAPS to attack the healer. In both cases, the healer is free-casting and winning the match for the other side. Then people come to the forums complaining about how healers are ruining PvP.

 

TL;DR In matches with zero communication, it's usually the only thing that gets attempted to communicate, and it still gets ignored by the rest of the group.

[Banderal]

Typical "Curse Of Knowledge" problem : You didn't tell them what this mark was actually for !

 

"Hm. He has marked a healer. From the other team. Fine. Now, what does this mean ? Is he especially dangerours ? Should we stay away from that one ?

Is he a friend of our buddy ? Does he want to say "hello" to him ? Is this a way to tease a good friend ?"

"Well ... I dunno what YOU think, but I say ya : as long as he doesn't explain it, I'll stay clear from that one, buddy !"

 

I believe this is true too, but I'm not sure that's the best example Alrik. Markers are often used in PvE also for picking who to target, right? I think that's a common thing in MMOs. But on the other hand, I guess there might be plenty of people who are new to MMOs in general playing this game, so maybe you are right with this example too. And then there are always the matches you get into where someone on your own team is trolling by putting a marker over all your OWN team's heads.

 

But, in my opinion, there was another example that someone gave earlier in response to one of my long winded posts. It was about the basics of who to attack, healer, tank or dps, and how can people not get that? Or something like that, is the way I understood it. That one I think is the "curse of too much knowledge" as you say. Basically "everything is 'common sense' to the person that already knows it" - if that's not a quote from some famous person I think it should be.

 

I think the "who to attack and when" stuff is actually pretty advanced. Heck, there was a long-ish thread on these forums not too long ago where all the "experts" were arguing EXACTLY that thing about whether you should just always attack the healers or not. I don't remember there being any consensus.

 

The basic stuff in a WZ is "what the heck is 'GRASS'?". "How do I even throw the huttball"? And the... "OMG, everything is happening SO FAST!!!!!!!". My first WZ was a voidstar, and I didn't even know which way to run, let alone have any idea who to attack, or even give a thought to things like healers and tanks and dps. Heck, I'd be willing to bet that there's not a new PvPr out there who starts off knowing how tanks even WORK in PvP in this game. But I think we tend to forget about that stuff, because it's so ingrained.

[AlrikFassbauer]

The basic stuff in a WZ is "what the heck is 'GRASS'?".

 

I think I already told somewhere that I used "East" & "Weast" in Alderaan - and nobody understood me !

 

On topic : Had one very well - almost too well - Alderaan match - and were farmed by Imps later in Hypergates. Ouch.

[Banderal]

I think I already told somewhere that I used "East" & "Weast" in Alderaan - and nobody understood me ! .

 

"Weast" is my favorite inc call!

[DomiSotto]

It’s going to be a long post. Sorry!

 

All I can say is, let’s talk more! And sweetly.

 

There are still a ton of things I do not know, and really major ones too. I do not know how to play a DPS in this game at all. In PvP specifically, I do not get the Arenas. Again and again I wish there was a separate queue for them outside ranked. If we ever get a pre-season again, I will put every play-hour I have into it!

 

@ Exude: Welcome to PvP! Feel free to bring your experiences and questions on the forums, you will always get a lot of good answers and a fun conversation. Tbh, asking for tips when everyone is getting ready to go is not the best time. People normally check the comp during that time, set the focuses, guards, healers announce their trade and start the group prep. Sometimes folks will do a quick strat check.

 

If you (or anyone else) are on the Harbinger, both Banderal and Teclado said it already: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=823486

 

You will see improvement as you understand the zone flow, get more abilities, and fill out all your gear slots. And, hey, there often will be a guy of your own level, and if not, well, you will always aim to hit the same guy the other DPS are hitting.

 

Here is what I remember from levlelling my Guardian: I played in Soresu Form before Shien was available but with the focus, giving it a bit more survivability until all the vaunted DCDs came in. Taunting to be done on cooldown. Once I got the Intercede, it took conscious effort to start using it, because it comes in fairly late in the game, but it is an essential skill.

 

Zetsuma’s videos are awesome and Zetsuma-Vesev’s guide covers the DCDs wonderfully J

 

Teclado is becoming really good with the leaping classes, so he might have the insights for more specific melee.

 

Forgive me for going on a tangent, but here is a small bit on the emotional resilience:

 

 

Two things that I would suggest to anyone playing PvP is shifting the focus from a goal to the present and never forgetting that the other toons around them are people.

 

Winning is great, putting out the awesome numbers is exhilarating, but when your eyes are on the goal, you are not watching the road. So it takes longer to get to where you want to be, as odd as it sounds.

 

Other players that loaded a zone with or against you are people, with all it entitles, shortcomings and strengths. Only very few will become champions, but everyone can grasp the basics, gear up and enjoy a warzone game.

 

I have no immediate knowledge why anybody does anything in a zone, but I know that a million things affect me, the spells that are cast, the awareness flaws, the distraction of the view and zoom shifting, the fog of war, the hand mis-positioned on the keyboard, mistaregeting, lags, disconnects. I know that other people experience these difficulties as well.

 

Enjoy the moment and be compassionate. Otherwise no matter how good you are, you might end experiencing unpleasant feelings.

 

When I can’t function as a half-decent human being, I try to stop playing. I got carried away a few times, and I did not like it at all.

 

[AlrikFassbauer]

"Weast" is my favorite inc call!

 

Ooooooooops !

 

By the way, yesterday someone informed me (on Harbinger) in-game that on POT5 there was a few years ago a guild with the same name ! "S-key to Victory !" He actually asked me if I was from that guild.

Edited August 13, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[lavatsunami]

So let me get this straight. You've been pvping for over a year and you still don't know how to do things like play a dps?

 

Step 1: read your tooltips

Step 2: read a guide

Step 3: watch some videos

 

That should take about a day or two max.

[AlrikFassbauer]

So let me get this straight. You've been pvping for over a year and you still don't know how to do things like play a dps?

 

Step 1: read your tooltips

Step 2: read a guide

Step 3: watch some videos

 

That should take about a day or two max.

 

You obviously didn't read this thread, LOL

Edited August 13, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[DomiSotto]

Thank you for the advice. I have done as you suggested on a few ACs, but my dps remained too low. I've finally identified a fundamental problem with my gameplay that stemmed from my overall ignorance, but to correct it will take time and efforts in best case scenario.For now I prefer to play my healers. I have been leveling and learning so many toons following the advice to research all the ACs, that I am tired and just want to play a main or two at level 60.

[Banderal]

And back to PvP stories! LoL

 

Had some lvl 60 games tonight with Tuonel, me on my shadow (Me... and my SHHAAAAADDDDOOOWWWWW ).

 

Started wtih a NC, where we had a fun, close game. Tu and I went south to try to help take it. There was a DPS going west by hiself. Just as we were finishing up taking south, he called for help because they sent an interceptor to west. I rush there, and manage to get a guard on him and taunt and we finish taking down that guy, and now we have south and west! And then... shoot, too many matches... I don't remember the details after that. I remember we want back and forth on various turrets. The final swap was with us at about 40% and them at 10%. We managed to take west back at that point, and held it for the win in the middle of a big melee with both sides spam-capping back and forth trying to take-it/hold-it for their side. I type "gg" into /say. Another team mate types "rekd". LoL. Right, losing by 10% is hardly wrecked.

 

Had another NC after that where we did not fair so well. I think we were pretty much losing the whole time.

 

We had an ACW which I also remember was a close match, but we lost it eventually. We were doing great holding east and west, with rotating back and forth as they alternated their attacks. Then they out-foxed us, and we over rotated. After that we never got a 2nd turret back, although we came close a few times. It felt like a close game anyway.

 

Final game was an arena. I'm not normally a fan of arenas, but if they were all like round 1 of this one I can see how one might like them. We started off with 3 of us (me a tank, Tu a healer, and the 3rd was a merc DPS I think?), the 3rd guy was undergeared because of mixing pvp and pve mods in his gear. We got a 4th, but he came in just in time to lie there dead in spawn and watch us fight round 1.

 

The enemy came for the merc hard, as we expected. I guard swapped too late, and we could not keep him up. I can't remember if we managed to kill one of them before he went down or not, but I'm pretty sure we had a 2 v 4 at that point. And then it got FUN! They were not coordinated enough, or geared enough or maybe Domi has just become an awesome healer - probably the 3rd one. Anyway, she was healing and kiting and cc'ing, I was taunting and Ccing and doing a bit of dps, and we were slowly whittling away at them. We took down 2 of them, and had a 3rd below 1/4 health I think before they finally got me (I was getting "dps hungry", and failed to watch my own health enough ). Domi finished off a 3rd, and had just one to go. There was 20 seconds till the acid at that point, but then I guess she got "dps hungry" too, and we lost that round.

 

For rounds 2 and 3 though, we had another DPS, plus we were able to keep the merc up between my guard and the healing (mostly the healing) and we took them down without losing anyone else.

 

The merc apologized for being an easy target, and I know that Domi was in contact with the merc afterwards explaining gearing. Go Domi! You vet you!

[DomiSotto]

That was a Mando, and I was able to explain the PvP gear in PvE terms, so happy I got to raid a little... shells w/o mods = unassembled. Aha! And the whole shell trade in process suddenly started to make sense, lol. S/he wa also super happy that s/he will be able to use Arkanum set till s/he can get the Reaver set bonus. Oh, well, nice guy I got a cranky Voidstar after that, and that's it for the day. Cheers, folks!

[exude]

 

@ Exude: Welcome to PvP! Feel free to bring your experiences and questions on the forums, you will always get a lot of good answers and a fun conversation. Tbh, asking for tips when everyone is getting ready to go is not the best time. People normally check the comp during that time, set the focuses, guards, healers announce their trade and start the group prep. Sometimes folks will do a quick strat check.

 

If you (or anyone else) are on the Harbinger, both Banderal and Teclado said it already: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=823486

 

 

Unfortunately I am on Jedi Covenant, I looked on the forums but I didn't really see any interesting PvP guilds. I saw a few during Warzones but when I try to whisper the members afterwards, it says Player not found. If you have any recommendations, let me know.

 

On another note I finally became THAT person today.....

 

I am currently level 28. Although I am a sub using the 12x XP, I've been taking it slow and queuing constantly. So I got into a Huttball match just now and after a few minutes I noticed that my entire team has decided to play Team Deathmatch in the middle while the opposing team is simply stealth passing constantly. When the score hit 0-4, I couldn't control myself and typed "***, are you all doing? Why are you not playing the objective" in OPS chat. I became the rager PVP guy for a second. Of course no one responded and continued dying in the middle. After my outburst I quickly realized that my typing would fall on deaf ears so I continued to just play my way and learn. I just thought it was funny that my noob self reacted that way.

[Banderal]

The only thing I can think of about the player not found situation is that they are going through the dailies on their alts, and you managed to catch them just as they were switching. You could try adding them to your friends list, then you would see when they come back on. Also, if you can't add them then you know it's because you have their name spelled wrong.

 

And becoming THAT guy... lol... no one is perfect. I find myself mad about death match play in huttball especially, because that game is so much fun if my team is playing HB. And doubly so if both teams are. But I finally resolved myself to the fact that some players just don't want to play objectives, and they enter warzones anyway because there is not really any other good way for them to fight other players. I usually try to just switch over to death match mode myself. Although, on occassion, a surprise score will sort of wake your team up. Kind of like a, "wait, we CAN score!?" moment on their part, and suddenly they are playing HB!

[AlrikFassbauer]

Although, on occassion, a surprise score will sort of wake your team up. Kind of like a, "wait, we CAN score!?" moment on their part, and suddenly they are playing HB!

 

Yes, that happens.

 

But it says a lot about the "victim" attitude if such a "surprise score" is actually *needed* to wake people up ...

 

Most other "pro" PvP players would deny that a "victim mentality" actually exists, I fear - they're too deep in the mud calling everyone "BADS !" now.

 

What REALLY frightens me is the thought that someone might have : "you *must* be a victim in order to get better !" That's *real* sadism !

Edited August 14, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[exude]

And becoming THAT guy... lol... no one is perfect.

 

I just thought it was hilarious :-) Anyway I've decided to create a character on Harbinger tonight and try to get together with S-Key. While I am East Coast and have been enjoying queuing solo, I think I'm ready to learn some intermediate aspects of PvP such as which classes to focus, which CCs to cleanse, and other tactics that can only be learned from playing with other people.

[Banderal]

Awesome! If you see any of my toons feel free to PM. I actually am on EST, and am usually on from 6:30 to around 8:30 or so weekdays. Even though it's a west coast sever the population has always been fine for reg-queue pops in all brackets for me, and I don't get too bad a ping.

[DomiSotto]

For cleanses, the main rule is that the like cleanses the like. In other words, as a force user you will be cleansing what the FU’s dropped on your folks, and if you are a techie, you will be cleansing the techs. Speaking of which, Banderal, before I forgot! I need Brerrabbit kick and flash-bang Rhodion (yeah, I too wish I could put it some other way!), I want to see what the debuffs look like.

 

Normally, unfortunately, there are more people needing cleansing than a heals have cleanses. I give the priority to the classes that can’t selfcleanse, Guardians and Vanguards. I also watch my Scoundrels, because if a Scoundrel is either slowed or rooted they can get dead fast.

 

You can set you interface to only show stuff you can cleanse, but it’s not recommended, because if you can’t cleanse, you will need to outheal the DoT.

 

We took down 2 of them, and had a 3rd below 1/4 health I think before they finally got me (I was getting "dps hungry", and failed to watch my own health enough http://cdn-www.swtor.com/community/images/swtor/smilies/frown.png). Domi finished off a 3rd, and had just one to go. There was 20 seconds till the acid at that point, but then I guess she got "dps hungry" too, and we lost that round.

 

I keep thinking about it, so I am going write it out J

 

Those 4 guys were very low DPS players, probably novices to PvP. If I played defensively I’d have easily healed through whatever the last 2 had to offer, and got both of them dead in acid. I had whirlwind and god bubble all on me, I’ve tossed them off the bridge and had time to heal up while they were hiking back. I had no excuses to lose that one, none. But one of them had only a sliver of health, so I got stupid and dead instead. (Sigh)

[exude]

Probably going to start as a Scoundrel, figured it would be easier to learn basics as a DPS then start an alt healer then an alt tank.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Had 2 rather bad WZs. Got farmed by too well coordinated teams, always 2 on me (Gunslinger) at the same time. I could virtually hear the voice chat call : "Here ! There is a Gunslinger ! I need help ! Let's kill hoim both !" And soon the other one arrived.

 

It was almost only 2 people at the same time, a Marauder an a Sorc. A Sniper once called for help, and they came.

Marauder with damage skills + force choke + sorc with DOTs, often teamed up with a Assassin stunlocking me.