Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Chirikyat Ascendancy vs Republic Resistance

[Wolfninjajedi]

Well if someone wants to try and topple my wall of text....

 

Well your post is fine, abit except for the Juggernaut and sensor thing.

 

You could always look over post #576 and share your thoughts. (amended to fit the recent developments)

 

Your post is fine too.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Rule #116 makes no mention of suppliers not being able to create their own vehicles or droids.

 

"your supplier must be capable of manufacturing them as well as your vehicles, though not the exact unit, only the class."

 

This is talking about droids and vehicles, specifically a persons chosen droids and vehicles. I was always under the imperssion the Supplier could not make any and everything they ever had, but only the Droids and Vehicles you had and then any other equipment they can make, but again droids and Vehicles were a No Go.

 

 

 

Also as far as Space forces go, I believe Fighters should be rebuildable. If suppliers can rebuild Vehicles, fighters should also be capable with a proper ship yard as they like Light Vehicles were fairly cheap, easy and quick to produce. Obviously the more advanced ones would not be possible as they take time, but the standard Fighter should be possible.

[Beniboybling]

Considering that if nothing else, they would have been summoned when the space battle began...Yes, BONKERS I SAY! Besides, they are being used to kill ground vehicles *despite their ability to fly temporarily...* seems like it goes against the whole thing with the space forces not interfering with the ground except for stopping supplies thing... It is just like as if you were to give the RR a buff that they have no right to.

 

30 fighters max? Guessing from New Hope and Death Star attack? Either way, when did they have time to place them there when they knew the enemy fleet was in orbit as well, and that the battle would soon commence? Oh right, makes perfect sense to send away forces when you know a strong enemy is about to strike you, duh!

 

Never give up, Never sur- ooh shiny!

 

If I recall correctly, while the forest isn't Kashyyyk level, it is more like the Amazon or some such with thick forests is it not? That kinda rules out moving around them, unless you want to try and go around the entire planet. That would be most impressive...ly ineffective. As for blowing them up, alright, use limited ammo to clear a path while you are being assaulted from all sides with your very unstealthy convoy that now doesn't need to rely on being spotted by droids.

30 fighters (which IMO would be enough to counter the Basilliks) makes up 1.5% of the Resistances overall fighter force.

 

1.5%

 

That is hardly dividing your forces with massive repercussions.

 

And I feel, considering they have fighter hangars in the Great Temple, it is a right they have, as it would be for the faction that claimed space superiority. If you have fighter hangars in your BOE you can field fighters with the rest of your force prior to the space battle. This seems to me not only fair, but logical and most importantly accurate.

 

The only reason I'm not suggesting a ban is because I can fathom no logical reason to do so, other than "fairness" - but the Kaggath isn't fair and it never has been, a point I have stressed on numerous occasions.

 

Concerning the forest, yes its exactly like the Amazon, google some images, the trees and thin and tall, most can be plowed through, the odd thick trunk can simply be maneuvered around. I doubt it will prove a big issue.

[Beniboybling]

Aleph-class fighters

 

"Maximum speed (atmosphere)

Interceptor-grade[1]"

 

"The fighter also had an impressive top speed, comparable to the Eta-5 interceptor, and was quick in atmospheres—although its acceleration paled in comparison to that of an X-wing—but its one major deficiency was a serious lack of maneuverability.[1] To compensate for this, rows of thruster ports were placed along the dorsal and ventral surfaces and both sides of the hull, allowing the fighter to make lateral sidesteps or vertical jumps and drops in flight. However, many pilots regarded this system as no substitute for the inherent grace and maneuverability of a smaller snubfighter.[1] "

 

 

This was all in my original analysis of fighters. Its tougher then the Cross fire and as far as I could tell can bring more fire power to bear. If the design was continued I am sure they would have fixed the weapons jamming problem and since the Cross fire comes from the Legacy Era I work with the assumption that all the Aleph's stuff is functioning as intended. The Cross fire is more maneuverable but not the most manueverable ship ever its a well balanced ship. As such I feel they are a good match for one another. One is slightly more manueverable the other can take more hits.

 

BOTH are capable of fighting in atmos just as well as in space.

 

The Heavy fighter on the CA might be to heavy for it to come into the atmosphere, but to work as an anti fighter there is no need for a bomber or a Heavy fighter honestly.

 

Finally.

 

TIE Defender:

Maximum speed (atmosphere)

1,680 km/h[7]

 

Its capable in air flights

 

 

So if you launch fighters while the CA is over head they just get rolled by the vastly more numerous fighters from the fleet above. Possibly before they even get to the Basilisk droids.

 

So again the only time launching them is possible is if the fleet is out of the system at which point the CA is hunkered in and you dont have time to waste its Deliver supplies and ****.

 

There is no reason to leave fighters behind like this, they serve no real purpose with enemy ships able to respond to them.

Guess you didn't read my wall.

 

The Yavin 4 temple is shielded, fighters can't pass through it.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Beniboybling

[tunewalker]

30 fighters (which IMO would be enough to counter the Basilliks) makes up 1.5% of the Resistances overall fighter force.

 

1.5%

 

That is hardly dividing your forces with massive repercussions.

 

And I feel, considering they have fighter hangars in the Great Temple, it is a right they have, as it would be for the faction that claimed space superiority. If you have fighter hangars in your BOE you can field fighters with the rest of your force prior to the space battle. This seems to me not only fair, but logical and most importantly accurate.

 

The only reason I'm not suggesting a ban is because I can fathom no logical reason to do so, other than "fairness" - but the Kaggath isn't fair and it never has been, a point I have stressed on numerous occasions.

 

Concerning the forest, yes its exactly like the Amazon, google some images, the trees and thin and tall, most can be plowed through, the odd thick trunk can simply be maneuvered around. I doubt it will prove a big issue.

 

Post 589. We dont need to ban them, they are already useless.

[tunewalker]

Guess you didn't read my wall.

 

The Yavin 4 temple is shielded, fighters can't pass through it.

 

why would that matter? If your fighters are launching to attack airborne Basilisk, they arent protected by that shield.

 

Changes absolutely 0.

Edited July 6, 2014 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

Beni the other problem isn't exactly terrain, but turning, the Juggernauts are bigger than the UTs, so they are gonna be slower while turning, which then in turn could also get them hung up.

 

Also sure...RI could have sensor tech already in place ahead, but who's to say the enemy wouldn't have already taken those out? In fact who's to say they would even have gotten a chance to before dying by enemy patrols?

Considering they are moving at 30 mph, which is a fraction of their top/recommended speed, I doubt turning will be a major issue. But hey, I never said this thing was gonna be fast. Then I referred to sensor tech I mean sensor devices on board the convoy, that can detect anything coming into range. In terms of reconnaissance they'll use probe droids, which while possible for the enemy to eliminate are fast and numerous. But there are contingency plans.

[Selenial]

"your supplier must be capable of manufacturing them as well as your vehicles, though not the exact unit, only the class."

 

This is talking about droids and vehicles, specifically a persons chosen droids and vehicles. I was always under the imperssion the Supplier could not make any and everything they ever had, but only the Droids and Vehicles you had and then any other equipment they can make, but again droids and Vehicles were a No Go.

 

 

 

Also as far as Space forces go, I believe Fighters should be rebuildable. If suppliers can rebuild Vehicles, fighters should also be capable with a proper ship yard as they like Light Vehicles were fairly cheap, easy and quick to produce. Obviously the more advanced ones would not be possible as they take time, but the standard Fighter should be possible.

You can ask, Beni, but my understanding of that rule was:

 

You can have a canderous assault tank, if your supplier has ever shown the ability to make a heavy tank.

[Beniboybling]

why would that matter? If your fighters are launching to attack airborne Basilisk, they arent protected by that shield.

 

Changes absolutely 0.

The airborne Basilliks attacking the Temple? i.e. beneath the shield?

 

If you are referring to the convoy, a point but I'd say that given their speed they'd be able to zip out, do some damage, then zip back before the Ascendancy can alert the fleet and get reinforcements (which have to travel quite far.)

[Beniboybling]

Wait, so I get Canderous-class Assault tanks and AT-TEs?

 

If you insist...

Actually you do... yup yup you actually do.

 

Discuss.

[Silenceo]

Actually you do... yup yup you actually do.

 

Discuss.

 

Mass Drivers >>>>>>>>>> Shield Generator.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Considering they are moving at 30 mph, which is a fraction of their top/recommended speed, I doubt turning will be a major issue. But hey, I never said this thing was gonna be fast. Then I referred to sensor tech I mean sensor devices on board the convoy, that can detect anything coming into range. In terms of reconnaissance they'll use probe droids, which while possible for the enemy to eliminate are fast and numerous. But there are contingency plans.

 

When turning the Juggs gotta reduce their speed still, so turning is rather an issue especially moving something that big. But as per the sensor devices on the convoy?.....That's all well and good, but that didn't exactly help the Empire on Maridun against the natives when they had 2 Juggernauts with em when they were going through the rough jungle terrain.

 

However if the Juggs can somehow get into a more open terrain, then...yeah they'll be more useful. But getting through thick jungle is gonna be the hard part, for either side really if they decide to use Juggs in the convoys.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[StarSquirrel]

Actually you do... yup yup you actually do.

 

Discuss.

 

Hehe, so that shield over the Temple... lets talk about that now

Edited July 6, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[tunewalker]

The airborne Basilliks attacking the Temple? i.e. beneath the shield?

 

If you are referring to the convoy, a point but I'd say that given their speed they'd be able to zip out, do some damage, then zip back before the Ascendancy can alert the fleet and get reinforcements (which have to travel quite far.)

 

Well seeing as they already know that they have those ships down there, cus ya people saw them fly down there originally I suspect all convoys would have a fighter escort in Atmo ready to respond before the RR fighters ever got there.

 

 

For the Temple itself, once they are that close in I doubt they would be in the air long enough to be shot down. The Temple is solid and something they can land on. I would think once landed hitting them with fighters would consititute an illegal move AkA bombing run.

 

If they are at the temple they arent likely in the air. Especially since opening a hole in the roof wouldnt be much use for the rest of the troops. They might drop in right next to the temple, but clearly dropping on top of it is impossible because the afformentioned shields. Bassically the Basilisk arent going to be in the air when they assault the Temple thanks to afformentioned shields. They have no reason to be in the air, when they are in the Air it will be with an already mentioned air support gaurd in place.

 

Again fighters are useless in this scenario with out Space Superiority. The only time the Basilisks are vulnerable they have cover. The time they arent vulnerable from the sky they arent vulnerable to fighters.

 

All-in-all LK has WAY more practical and easier ways to handle this.

 

Say they are flying around over head and have been noticed by a scout team that calls up anti Aircraft Clone team. The clone team being covered on the ground by Jedi and More clone troops all hiding in the trees fire their rockets destroying plenty of Basilisk and begin to immidiately pull back to Heavy Tank droids trying to lead the CA into a trap.

 

This is a basic scouting squad while most of the real fighting will be done on the ground at the RR base. where Basilisk droids thanks to their ground speed being much faster then the UT-AT's may be able to close in and light a fire underneath the UT-AT's same with the Sun Gaurd using grenades killing several people as well as their sniper rifles and giving time for Massassi and Tetetak (god I hate what ever called) get some time to close in. This would become one hell of a brawl but I would suspect initial hits from the Bassilisk and Sun Gaurd would be followed by Immediate retreat for more supplies to arrive. While the RR slowly runs low on supplies but I would suspect holds out.

[StarSquirrel]

If I could get a full weapons and tactical break down of massassi and Sun Guard I can do a Break down based on what I know for both sides Ground forces. What counters what and all that jazz.

 

Strike teams distracting forces Siege equipment scouting possibilities, traps the whole shinbang .

 

Ok, I'll do a break-down on Massassi/Sun Guard capabilities and tactics as an add-on to the information in post #579. This also covers briefly the Terentateks and Juggernauts role in allowing Massassi tactics to work.

 

Massassi are very capable of swarm tactics. However they were still intelligent enough to follow complex battle plans as well. Seeing as how they are extremely mobile in the jungles of Yavin IV and the thickness of the jungle allows them to close with the clones more easily, it would be ideal to engage the clones at closer range.

 

In any major engagement, the Juggernauts would likely take the lead. Terentateks would follow or be attached to groups of Massassi to swing around the clone's flanks. The intent would be to either draw the clones into an ambush as a means of closing the gap, or to rush them at an inopportune time. It is all about getting within 20-30 meters which is essentially the butterzone for the Massassi Lavarok's ranged capability.

 

Each Massassi is capable of firing 3+ discs at a time in a sweeping pattern typically aimed for their opponent's throat or upper body and occasionally the head. The projectile is also capable of having its direction adjusted in-flight using the force to provide somewhat better accuracy though this tactic was most effective around 5 meters distant.

 

The Massassi in close combat were relentless, ruthless, and physically powerful. Even a human at peak physical prowess pales in comparison.

 

The Sun Guard were more well rounded. While very capable at range (with advanced targeting systems built into their armor) they were devastating at close range with Echani martial arts and a swath of tricks built into their armor to give them an advantage. Sun Guard armor was virtually impervious to most small-arms but it was extremely light and durable.

 

The Sun Guard were also experts at defeating Jetpack-borne troops, going so far as to create an entire strategy designed to kill Mandalorian Jet troopers.

 

Sun Guards possessed powerful flamethrowers and obvious the typical blasters/snipers/grenades etc...

 

They'd be most effective as the frontal force and as a response to the clone's specialized units.

 

The Terentateks can rip apart clones and Jedi alike, and not to mention their talons are extremely poisonous and sharp. Now that I mention their claws, they could probably rip into the XG-85 tanks and easily break the glass on the UT-AT and kill the pilot/gunner while exposing the interior to a Sun Guard grenade.

 

Now in the tactics realm, the Juggernaut is the perfect vehicle (now supported by Canderous-class tanks) to take the forward brunt of the RR's attack while the Massassi swarm them from the sides and rear. As I said in my first post, the CA's best engagement tactic is to pin an enemy down and flank them quickly.

 

This write-up is mostly in regards to an engagement in the open with the RR advancing and the CA moving out to engage.

 

For Sieges I'll have to get back to you Tune.

[Beniboybling]

Mass Drivers >>>>>>>>>> Shield Generator.

A good point. But they'd have to be built first, and at the expense of the Basilisk War Droids.

 

But certainly a game changer worth discussing.

[Beniboybling]

When turning the Juggs gotta reduce their speed still, so turning is rather an issue especially moving something that big. But as per the sensor devices on the convoy?.....That's all well and good, but that didn't exactly help the Empire on Maridun against the natives when they had 2 Juggernauts with em when they were going through the rough jungle terrain.

 

However if the Juggs can somehow get into a more open terrain, then...yeah they'll be more useful. But getting through thick jungle is gonna be the hard part, for either side really if they decide to use Juggs in the convoys.

All righty, according to Wookieepedia when turning they have to reduce their speed to 15mph (which I admit is pretty damn slow) but as long as they don't encounter to many trees and plot a decent course they should have do turn often.

 

However with a max speed of 30mph with occassional drop to 15mph I have to agree there speed will be... plodding.

 

According to Wookieepedia:

 

However, several Amanin managed to sneak past the outer defenses during the night, and sabotaged one of the HAVw A5 Juggernauts, effectively cutting off communications with the outside world and blowing it up.

 

Don't really know what to make of that, perhaps you could provide some details?

 

Also, discussion point, possibilities of resupply/second naval engagement.

 

Also, lets say the convoy reaches the Exar Kun Temple (which I think is likely) what then?

[Warren-Stride]

Oddly enough, this debacle reminds me of this

...Simple imagine Selenial as Padme, Palpatine as Beni, and think of it in the context of the Kaggath.

 

Wow, I've never seen that scene before. I really wish it had made it into the movie, it explains so much. I got goosebumps listening to it. I love Padme. She was way better than the whole 'dying of heartbreak' stuff.

[Beniboybling]

Wow, I've never seen that scene before. I really wish it had made it into the movie, it explains so much. I got goosebumps listening to it. I love Padme. She was way better than the whole 'dying of heartbreak' stuff.

I like it too, definitely been in the movie.

 

"Wake up Senators, you must wake up!"

 

Almost as good as:

 

"I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die while you discuss this invasion in a committee!"

 

Why Silenceo! Why couldn't you leave us blissfully ignorant!

 

Long but that tongue part, tad unnecessary.

[Warren-Stride]

I like it too, definitely been in the movie.

 

"Wake up Senators, you must wake up!"

 

Almost as good as:

 

"I was not elected to watch my people suffer and die while you discuss this invasion in a committee!"

 

She got me when she said "many will lose their lives, all will lose their freedom." Powerful.

[Silenceo]

 

Why Silenceo! Why couldn't you leave us blissfully ignorant!

 

Why? WHY?! Because, that very blissful ignorance, drove me to search youtube for relevant videos, and I stumbled upon that one. The shoe fit. It was the perfect video to steal that ignorance! It had to be done.

 

Side Note: Realistically it just fit with how it seemed like you and Selenial were viewing the issue, and thought it would be humorous.

[Beniboybling]

She got me when she said "many will lose their lives, all will lose their freedom." Powerful.

To be quite honest, despite what other says, the Senate scenes were some of my favourite - through all three movies.

[Silenceo]

To be quite honest, despite what other says, the Senate scenes were some of my favourite - through all three movies.

 

It figures you would love the "political maneuvering."

 

Side Note: How long would the trek be at that speed, discounting obstacles?

Edited July 6, 2014 by Silenceo

[Wolfninjajedi]

All righty, according to Wookieepedia when turning they have to reduce their speed to 15mph (which I admit is pretty damn slow) but as long as they don't encounter to many trees and plot a decent course they should have do turn often.

 

However with a max speed of 30mph with occassional drop to 15mph I have to agree there speed will be... plodding.

 

According to Wookieepedia:

 

However, several Amanin managed to sneak past the outer defenses during the night, and sabotaged one of the HAVw A5 Juggernauts, effectively cutting off communications with the outside world and blowing it up.

 

Don't really know what to make of that, perhaps you could provide some details?

 

Also, discussion point, possibilities of resupply/second naval engagement.

 

Also, lets say the convoy reaches the Exar Kun Temple (which I think is likely) what then?

 

The Amanin sabotaged the Jugg after the ambush they made on the Imperial convoy.

 

If they do reach the temple, then sure the Juggs will be more useful on a more flat open terrain. However the RR Juggs are more for transport compared to what Star has in which his are more combat oriented.

 

This isn't to say the RR couldn't use their Juggs for armor support, but it won't be suitable for long engagements unlike the A6 Juggs.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[StarSquirrel]

The Amanin sabotaged the Jugg after the ambush they made on the Imperial convoy.

 

If they do reach the temple, then sure the Juggs will be more useful on a more flat open terrain. However Ray's Juggs are more for transport compared to what Star has in which his are more combat oriented.

 

Wait, so Juggernauts are vulnerable to stealthy sabotage?

 

I see a perfect opportunity for the Sun Guard to take advantage. They are trained specifically for stealth and covert missions on top of their normal training.