Kaggath Battlegrounds Heats - Chirikyat Ascendancy vs Republic Resistance

[Selenial]

No, no, I think your final decision was fair in the end.

 

Hmmm, this is reminding me of the Battle of Ryloth, when the Accalamator's couldn't land because of those cannons, but those cannons were heavy I don't think the Ascendancy has that kind of firepower.

 

Nor do I feel that Maul could infiltrate in time, heck were exactly would he get in?

 

Altogether I feel that if one managed to get past, it could land safely considering its heavy armor.

 

Oh no, I'm talking once it's landed for Maul.

 

And same for the Vehicles, if it's being used as a base of operations it will be guarded, there will be clones and Jedi there, Maul destroying it could cause some serious damage and morale issues.

[Selenial]

I believe that is part of the "spoils of war" and the fact that the Ascendancy would control the debris field left by the battle, and indeed would have plenty of time while twiddling their thumbs waiting for the ground forces to do their part, to scavenge, repair, and reuse ships from the battle.

 

Also, how many times has Daala thought to have been dead?

 

Funny you mentioned that, reason I specifically called them Daala's "remains" and made Nomi influence her, was because I knew someone would say "She totally could have survived"

[Silenceo]

Lol don't you go there, her corpse was well done.

 

It could very well have been a decoy!

[Beniboybling]

Oh no, I'm talking once it's landed for Maul.

 

And same for the Vehicles, if it's being used as a base of operations it will be guarded, there will be clones and Jedi there, Maul destroying it could cause some serious damage and morale issues.

Fair point, given that its probably best it take off afterwards - and take its chances.

[LadyKulvax]

I think a Jedi strike force in one Juggernaut, would be sufficient to roll around the enemy force to Kun's temple, with Jedi precognitive abilities and Mace's foresight + shatterpoint should essentially keep them free of traps, navigating any enemy traps. Windu and some 20 Knights perhaps, once the Ascendancy has sent more and more forces to take up the heavy losses suffeted in the kill zones at the Great Temple. Windu assassinates as many enemy guards as he wishes then the rest of the Jedi charge in.

 

'Kun could sense the attack', if Kun diverts his attention to the Jedi then the RR will massacre far more Massassi as they need to be driven by his will or they lose whatever organisation and thus effectiveness they may have had. They make crucial mistakes the Clones take advantage of, they will also then be completely susceptible to Nomi's mind control, given their limited cognitive abilities this should make the following easily:

 

"Nomi was now channelling the Force into the minds of enemies and allies alike, the enemy started making mistakes, started to argue and become aggravated with each other, brawls broke out between officers and her influence drove her troops to attack in precise weak points, breaking enemy lines."

 

If he doesn't concentrate on directing his forces they will lack cohesion and suffer Nomi's influence.

 

He has to face the Jedi once they find him though as without his sorcery and being under mental attack he will be far less effective and honestly he may not stand up to them very well in this state, all of these Jedi are amped and Windu will have an all you can eat buffet the angrier and more aggravated Kun gets at being mentally assaulted, the faster he spells his own doom, Kun is good, no indeed he is one of the greatest but he can't take Windu + 20 Jedi Knights all amped without sorcery whilst distracted and likely in a lot of pain.

Edited July 6, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[tunewalker]

Ha ha! My enemies are indisposed, now is the time to strike!

 

Wake up Lady, your victory is at hand!

 

What makes you think I am on any ones side? (Oh Im back if no one noticed )

 

 

2 things

 

 

1. THere is no need for any one to have a commander in space. Go watch episode IV, if you have access to a tactical computer that shows the layout of whats going on, and the ability to use the same comms you would be using aboard the main ship to tell the other ships any way, you can lead the Space battle from the ground.

 

This is also true of ground missions he doesnt need to be on the front lines to lead a ground mission.

 

 

 

2. I think we are looking at a lot of useless vehicles here, As Wolf said Neither of the Juggernaughts are going to be easy to move in this terrain. The Terentatek are easily blown apart by heavy blaster fire/ UT-AT heavy blaster fire.

The Tank droids are likely not going any where for a long while either since they again are stuck behind the UT-AT's ultimately a place you dont want them.

 

The only really usable Machines are the UT-AT and the Bassalisk, which the UT-AT's are more numerable and have more firepower, though the Basalisk are more maneuverable.

 

I am going to finish reading everthing and give my thoughts on other things in a bit.

 

 

Also I dont think their will be to many Mandalorians to help out, yes they have a warrior spirit but I highly doubt there is more then a couple hundred battle ready to go in this Kaggath, especially since it seems a bit much to assume some one has effectively 2 Major Ground forces.

 

 

Edit: also on this whole air support things Rule # 74 I dont see how that doesnt apply.

Edited July 6, 2014 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

No, no, I think your final decision was fair in the end.

 

Hmmm, this is reminding me of the Battle of Ryloth, when the Accalamator's couldn't land because of those cannons, but those cannons were heavy I don't think the Ascendancy has that kind of firepower.

 

Nor do I feel that Maul could infiltrate in time, heck were exactly would he get in?

 

Altogether I feel that if one managed to get past, it could land safely considering its heavy armor.

 

i both agree and disagree.

 

I agree that Maul is very unlikely to Infiltrate, again The Republic controls the Information trade, this means any single person that spots maul could warn the RR and Maul would be largely ineffective.

 

I disagree about the Heavy guns. Anakin Solo's Long Range Turbo's? the octuple Barret Turbo lasers on the Imp II's there are plenty of heavy guns, heck Assault Concussion missiles from the Kyr, or even Proton Torps from the Heavy fighters aka the Ascendancies Bombers.

 

I Think a few would be tough enough and fast enough to break through and land a few supplies, but just as many are going to be blown to smithereens on entry.

[Silenceo]

i both agree and disagree.

 

I agree that Maul is very unlikely to Infiltrate, again The Republic controls the Information trade, this means any single person that spots maul could warn the RR and Maul would be largely ineffective.

 

I disagree about the Heavy guns. Anakin Solo's Long Range Turbo's? the octuple Barret Turbo lasers on the Imp II's there are plenty of heavy guns, heck Assault Concussion missiles from the Kyr, or even Proton Torps from the Heavy fighters aka the Ascendancies Bombers.

 

I Think a few would be tough enough and fast enough to break through and land a few supplies, but just as many are going to be blown to smithereens on entry.

 

I really hope that they try and bypass the blockade to do that, which would essentially lose them the rest of their fleet. The ones fighting the CA fleet are already out numbered, add some making a break for it to the mix, and it would go from a some what even fight, to a slaughter.

 

Also, remember that sniper plan earlier? *not sure if you read it yet* They would have a FIELD DAY, if that many clones rushed out and cheered as some Acclamators were descending. Not to mention the ship debris from it being destroyed not long after it enters atmosphere. Destroy the morale!

 

As for another thing that bothers me, loading up 20 jedi, Nomi, and Mace into a Juggernaut is a absolutely ter- wait, I am rooting for the Ascendancy...Carry on. Go ahead, put cloth wearing jedi inside a loud, large vehicle that is hampered by the environment, can't see where its going, and is likely to run into traps. You have to remember, if they can sense traps that could stop them, Kun could very well sense them since none of them other than perhaps Mace Windu, can hide in the force. It would almost be like handing the Ascendancy the victory on a silver platter. Heck, all it would take is for the Basilisks to receive new orders, and eliminate the Juggernaut. If they are unable to destroy it before the Jedi evac, they are out of a vehicle, without navigation, in a jungle that is quite lethal, with an army of natives who know the forests quite well hunting them. They would be cut off, likely injured, and would lose the advantage of surprise. In short, they will have made a really, really, bad decision.

 

Even if they somehow DO make it to the Temple, Kun still likely would have sensed their approach, you can't simply hide 20+ jedi knights barreling towards your location unless there are extremely advanced jedi cloaking techniques in use that cover all of them... Being the usual, Arrogant self that he is, Kun would likely not flee but instead prepare an ambush of sorts. Which likely would include flanking them with Terentateks, Maul using his assassination skills to screw with their minds in the Temple's maze of corridors, and Kun waiting arrogantly at the center of the temple, gathering his energy.

 

Though when they enter the temple they likely would be under the battle meditation which would enhance their abilities. But it can only go so far. It does not automatically make Terentateks effected by the force, it doesn't diminish Maul's assassin skills, and it won't stop Kun from gathering power from the temple for the confrontation. Do you REALLY want to assault the guy where he was the most powerful in his entire existence while he was still alive?! Even if Nomi was able to do the technique the messed with Kun's mind, I have a sneaking suspicion that he would still be able to fight near peak.

 

Side Note: Oh, and 20 of the 50 Jedi as well as both of the jedi leaders mysteriously disappearing for the LONG trek to the other temple? I am fairly certain someone would notice if nothing else. People in war tend to notice the presence of jedi or their disappearances, they are somewhat distinct.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Silenceo

[StarSquirrel]

Never heard of that happening before... seems a tad daft.

 

Lol don't you go there, her corpse was well done.

 

Rebels did it in just about every engagement they won.

 

The Republic did it numerous times.

 

The CIS I believe did it.

 

Zinji did it a few times.

 

At any point in Star Wars history that a force has had to make do without a shipyard to make new ships, they've rebuild damaged ships after a victory. I'm shocked that this is a surprise to you as a matter of fact.

[Silenceo]

Rebels did it in just about every engagement they won.

 

The Republic did it numerous times.

 

The CIS I believe did it.

 

Zinji did it a few times.

 

At any point in Star Wars history that a force has had to make do without a shipyard to make new ships, they've rebuild damaged ships after a victory. I'm shocked that this is a surprise to you as a matter of fact.

 

Kinda like how some pilots made fighters that people tended to call, "Uglies" If I recall correctly, which essentially were Frankenstein's of multiple ships. Very often used by Pirates.

[tunewalker]

Rebels did it in just about every engagement they won.

 

The Republic did it numerous times.

 

The CIS I believe did it.

 

Zinji did it a few times.

 

At any point in Star Wars history that a force has had to make do without a shipyard to make new ships, they've rebuild damaged ships after a victory. I'm shocked that this is a surprise to you as a matter of fact.

 

They were never up to peak preformance though, and I am pretty sure It might take more time to do that, time that you dont really have yes it would be faster then building from scratch but gathering that material and building I think would still take more time then any faction has in this battle.

[StarSquirrel]

They were never up to peak preformance though, and I am pretty sure It might take more time to do that, time that you dont really have yes it would be faster then building from scratch but gathering that material and building I think would still take more time then any faction has in this battle.

 

But having 2 ships at half strength is still 1 ship more than the other guys. And that can be huge when the numbers are as low as they are.

 

Besides, it would take a while to repair the Acclamators and give the Ascendancy plenty of time.

[LadyKulvax]

Silenceo you are mistakenly assuming Nomi goes with them.

 

Also it doesn't exactly matter how Windu gets there nor does it matter who goes with him, whether via Force Cloak, his personal starship or a vehicle, he is the one that can kill Kun, the nexus and all the amps in the world can't help him overpower Windu, he is exactly the kind of Sith that the Jedi Master wants to face because with his sorcery nullified and his mind being attacked Kun has nothing to surprise Windu with, his hybrid form? Unpredictability is the name of Vaapad's game and is nothing like anything Kun has ever seen.

 

Windu also has not one but two amps to boost himself with here, Kun however is having his school bag of tricks confiscated by the Grand Master. *Kun reaches in and Sunrider slaps his hand away* "No! NO! Naughty Kun!"

[LadyKulvax]

As far as space battles go, thanks to Republic Intelligence, as the Ascendancy fleet goes through rotation the RR can find out exactly when and where the ships are rotating, using this information the RR can use the Rebel tactic of sending in a small number of starfighters on a hit and run attack, knock out an enemy battleship or star destroyer and exit before sufficient force is mustered to retaliate, this keeps my own fleet safe and takes full advantage of starfighter numbers, hit and run assaults on individual ships will slowly whittle down the Ascendancy fleet and once the enemy fleet realises they are too vulnerable to rotate then the RR can simply attack Yavin IV, boosted by Battle Meditation with numbers more even.

 

Also take into account far faster repair of the RR fleet due to Kuat's massive shipyards meaning the RR can attack far before the Ascendancy is prepared for it.

 

Nomi could also sew confusion and mistakes, mentally assaulting Mandalore and confusing his fleet officers with her influence, in the midst of this the RR blows many ships away and takes command of the system, because of this the supplies that have piled up pour into the system, Acclamators land, heavy vehicles pour out and the Republic Resistance of Yavin IV is relieved.

Edited July 6, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[StarSquirrel]

As far as space battles go, thanks to Republic Intelligence, as the Ascendancy fleet goes through rotation the RR can find out exactly when and where the ships are rotating, using this information the RR can use the Rebel tactic of sending in a small number of starfighters on a hit and run attack, knock out an enemy battleship or star destroyer and exit before sufficient force is mustered to retaliate, this keeps my own fleet safe and takes full advantage of starfighter numbers, hit and run assaults on individual ships will slowly whittle down the Ascendancy fleet and once the enemy fleet realises they are too vulnerable to rotate here then they can simply attack Yavin IV, boosted by Battle Meditation.

 

Nomi could also sew confusion and mistakes, mentally assaulting Mandalore and confusing his fleet officers with her influence, in the midst of this the RR blows many ships away and takes command of the system, because of this the supplies that have piled up pour into the system, Acclamators land, heavy vehicles pour out and the Republic Resistance of Yavin IV is relieved.

Your starfighters were annihilated. You barely have any left. Those Venators took damage when their fighter complements ran headlong into a barrage of missiles. The RR so longer has fighter numbers on their side. meanwhile the tougher Ascendancy fighters would have weathered the storm in much better shape.

 

Plus, I was under the impression that thanks to rule 41 fighters are non-replaceable. So much for the hit and run strategy.

[tausra]

The way i see things, the RR have the advantage if they move on foot and do so as quickly as possible. Use the transports as decoys, diverting the Juggernauts and Basilisks away from the front for awhile. Windu goes on his own, the strike force splits up traveling in teams of 5 (sounds like a good number), and they hit Kun without remorse. Nomi uses her awesome Battle Meditation to keep her Strike teams unnoticed until at the gates. So long as the RR puts up a passable defense and can tie up CA resources, I don't see why that couldn't work. Conversely, if they lose Windu, or too many Jedi, Kun is almost promised the win.

 

As far as the CA goes, now that they know they have the Space advantage, they have the resources to exhaust and derail the RR. Judging by the artillery pieces that Nomi can move around, if she gets room to move she can cause a lot of damage. In my opinion the best bet is to put them on the defensive and target those Jedi. Nomi will get tired eventually, and as was mentioned Sun Guard Snipers are a thing, let them target officers and Jedi, using the terentatek to lure/sniff them out.

Edited July 6, 2014 by tausra

[tunewalker]

The way i see things, the RR have to advantage if they move on foot and do so as quickly as possible. Use the transports as decoys, diverting the Juggernauts and Basilisks away from the front for awhile. Windu goes on his own, the strike force splits up traveling in teams of 5 (sounds like a good number), and they hit Kun without remorse. Nomi uses her awesome Battle Meditation to keep her Strike teams unnoticed until at the gates. So long as the RR puts up a passable defense and can tie up CA resources, I don't see why that couldn't work.

 

As far as the CA goes, now that they know they have the Space advantage, they have the resources to exhaust and derail the RR. Judging by the artillery pieces that Nomi can move around, if she gets room to move she can cause a lot of damage. In my opinion the best bet is to put them on the defensive and target those Jedi. Nomi will get tired eventually, and as was mentioned Sun Guard Snipers are a thing, let them target officers and Jedi, using the terentatek to lure/sniff them out.

 

Just want to say, Havent seen you in here before so WELCOME to the debate. Its good see a fresh neutral perspective on things please stick around for more fun .

[LadyKulvax]

Your starfighters were annihilated. You barely have any left. Those Venators took damage when their fighter complements ran headlong into a barrage of missiles. The RR so longer has fighter numbers on their side. meanwhile the tougher Ascendancy fighters would have weathered the storm in much better shape.

 

Plus, I was under the impression that thanks to rule 41 fighters are non-replaceable. So much for the hit and run strategy.

 

When was that stated? Because I said I assumed I still retained starfighter superiority and Sel just seemed to agree, nothing she has said states my starfighters were annihilated, that is a massive assumption.

 

Also you underestimate the far FAR tougher TwinTail, they have the endurance (combining shields and armour) of a freighter/corvette and can take stupid amounts of punishment before the shields even fail and the ship is like a greyhound on crack when referring to maneuvering and speed, they also have weapons systems that can cause serious damage to capital ships.

[tunewalker]

When was that stated? Because I said I assumed I still retained starfighter superiority and Sel just seemed to agree, nothing she has said states my starfighters were annihilated, that is a massive assumption.

 

Also you underestimate the far FAR tougher TwinTail, they have the endurance (combining shields and armour) of a freighter/corvette and can take stupid amounts of punishment before the shields even fail and the ship is like a greyhound on crack when referring to maneuvering and speed, they also have weapons systems that can cause serious damage to capital ships.

 

Ok, just my 2 cents here, but I slitghly agree with this. Many of the fighters would have been lost i the battle, some to enemy fighters, some to point defense weapons on the Kyr's and the Solo and some in the destruction of the Venator's and the Bellator as some Venator's in the scenario were lost in the midst of releasing their hounds.

 

I would say you would likely still have the fighter advantage, BUT it would not be as large a fighter advantage as you previously had.

 

Also Twintail we have already talked about being effectively counted by the Defender. They were both the best of the best of their time. One achieved it through toughness the other through fire power, they likely have the same maneuverability. All-in-all I doubt many Twintail are left since you didnt have many to begin with. Same with the defenders. I would say likely 1 squad for both of you is the most likely. The rest that are left are likely other types.

 

But thats just my guess.

[StarSquirrel]

When was that stated? Because I said I assumed I still retained starfighter superiority and Sel just seemed to agree, nothing she has said states my starfighters were annihilated, that is a massive assumption.

 

Also you underestimate the far FAR tougher TwinTail, they have the endurance (combining shields and armour) of a freighter/corvette and can take stupid amounts of punishment before the shields even fail and the ship is like a greyhound on crack when referring to maneuvering and speed, they also have weapons systems that can cause serious damage to capital ships.

 

"but the Venators had been forced into an unruly predicament. Opening the Hangar bays was the only way to combat the superior firepower of the Imperial-II's, and it had to be done. Any acclamators available moved in to cover the Venator's Dorsal fins, but the Mandalorian cruisers rained concussion missiles into the hangars as they opened.

 

Roaring fire consumed many fighters as they tried to leave, and the Venators had taken heavy damage"

 

Plus the RR lost most of its Venators and its Bellator which carried the vast bulk of the RR fighter wing. The Ascendancy fighters were much more spread out between the frigates and the Imperial II's.

 

My argument here is that the Ascendancy at no point suffered a massive singular blow to their fighter number like the RR did when the Venators were hit. The whole point of the Ascendancy attack was to cripple the fighter wing and kill Nek and force the RR to withdraw.

 

That is exactly what happened.

Edited July 6, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[tunewalker]

"but the Venators had been forced into an unruly predicament. Opening the Hangar bays was the only way to combat the superior firepower of the Imperial-II's, and it had to be done. Any acclamators available moved in to cover the Venator's Dorsal fins, but the Mandalorian cruisers rained concussion missiles into the hangars as they opened.

 

Roaring fire consumed many fighters as they tried to leave, and the Venators had taken heavy damage"

 

Plus the RR lost most of its Venators and its Bellator which carried the vast bulk of the RR fighter wing. The Ascendancy fighters were much more spread out between the frigates and the Imperial II's.

 

And to add salt to the wound, chances are a large number of fighters were left behind and mopped up when their Venators and Bellator were blown apart and the other ships didn't have room for them.

 

the chances of fighters being blown up after they were "left behind" is impossible all of LK's fighters have hyperdrives of their own. Thus none were actually left behind.

Edited July 6, 2014 by tunewalker

[StarSquirrel]

the chances of fighters being blown up after they were "left behind" is impossible all of LK's fighters have hyperdrives of their own. Thus none were actually left behind.

 

You might be right on that point, but go back and check my edit real quick and see if you agree.

Edited July 6, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[tunewalker]

You might be right on that point, but go back and check my edit real quick and see if you agree.

 

While true, I again point to the fact that the numbers in the battle would have dwindled to more manageable for your forces, but an advantage would have still been there. In addition to this in that close proximity with the remaining Venator at the start your fighters would have been hit by their vastly more numerous Point defense guns.

 

Ultimately I agree that the Fighter advantage is severely curtailed to the point of being much closer, I would still say LK has a slight fighter advantage.

 

Until Sel comes in here and clarifies though I can not do an exact calculation.

 

Also I am unsure of other tactics such as hitting your other planets such as Mandalore, or your ability to cut off supply lines. The effect of the RI on the RR ability to predict your movements and or set traps. Your ships abilities to get in or out of those traps.

 

There are to many variables and honestly the remaining number of fighters is nearly irrellavent in my opinion to these variables.

 

Say you have 1 Lone SD enroute to a location, and when it reaches there you get ambushed by the whole RR fleet. That lone SD doesnt stand a chance, there are more then enough fighters and the Venator's and Acclamator's still have enough fight in them that even though both are wounded they can legitamately win with no cassualties on the side of the larger ships.

 

 

I think other things need to be discussed. For me the 1 thing LK should really be focusing on is the effects of RI on this battle feild.

 

And the thing you need to focus on Star is shutting down those extremely powerful UT-AT's and getting into the base with Teretak still alive. With out the UT-AT destroyed and with out the Teretak alive when you get inside the base your chances of survival in that area against those Jedi to me is not very good.

 

I still havent had time to fully realize my beliefs of the strengths and weakness of the ground force, and while suppliers have been talked about fairly well the thing I have heard the most of right now is Windu, Kun, and Nomi.

 

Tactics have come up very little beyond passing glances. Vehicle strengths and weaknesses over enemies get mentions but no elaboration. Organizations like the RI have almost been completely ignored. Hitting supply bases rather then Yavin has gotten mentions but no elaborations.

 

This Kaggath is far from over if you ask me.

Edited July 6, 2014 by tunewalker

[LadyKulvax]

"but the Venators had been forced into an unruly predicament. Opening the Hangar bays was the only way to combat the superior firepower of the Imperial-II's, and it had to be done. Any acclamators available moved in to cover the Venator's Dorsal fins, but the Mandalorian cruisers rained concussion missiles into the hangars as they opened.

 

Roaring fire consumed many fighters as they tried to leave, and the Venators had taken heavy damage"

 

Plus the RR lost most of its Venators and its Bellator which carried the vast bulk of the RR fighter wing. The Ascendancy fighters were much more spread out between the frigates and the Imperial II's.

 

My argument here is that the Ascendancy at no point suffered a massive singular blow to their fighter number like the RR did when the Venators were hit. The whole point of the Ascendancy attack was to cripple the fighter wing and kill Nek and force the RR to withdraw.

 

That is exactly what happened.

 

You are forgetting there were 2,200+ in the first place, you may well have destroyed a thousand in the battle but the TwinTails could quite easily have suffered heavy fire and still survived, the Crossfires whilst not very durable were stunningly fast and are very numerable, the Ionizers probably took the most damage here.

 

And sorry but are you seriously trying to stare your starfighters basically took no heavy casualties? I have a boat load of point defense turrets and even with heavy casualties out of the gate to presume that half were taken out right away is a very very big assumption, I reckon your fighters took a huge number of casualties too, everything did in this battle

[tunewalker]

If I were to take a stab at fighter numbers left I would say 1 Venator's worth of fighters on the RR and 4 Imperial Wings on the CA (bassically 1 of the remaining Venator's worth and all 4 of the Imperial SD worth.)

 

 

Totals would be

 

RR: 420

 

CA: 288

 

but that would be my guess.

 

 

Also Dont entirely remember what we are talking about, if we are talking about the RR ambushing a lone NON Anakin Solo Imp II with 420 fighters...... I would say it COULD work.... assuming in that attack run before they could respond the engines got knocked out.

 

If you dont knock out those engines the Imp II escapes.

 

The reason being is the that Lone Imp II has no good defenses against fighters beyond its own and 420 (or even better yet just 300) would be near impossible for 72 to fight off.

 

But again this would all 100% rely on the RR fighters disabling the engines before the Imperial ship could get coordinates from the Nav computer and spin up its hyperdrive. Other wise its gone.

 

 

Ultimately I dont think it would have much affect on the battle either way. It may force the AC to move a unit, and doing so would be helpful for getting supplies through for the RR, but ultiamtely we would be back to square 1 with both getting supplies delivered.

 

But that takes time, and in that time the CA WILL enjoy a very health rain of extra supplies while the RR tries to hold on for dear life until such a maneuver can be pulled.

 

Depending on how everything goes in the ground battle the RR might be to far gone to recover, or MAYBE they dont need those supplies.

 

Honestly I think the ground here is going to decide way more then what the space is left to decide. Almost want to argue lastability and such before we return to this What- if topic.

Edited July 6, 2014 by tunewalker