SWTOR (exclusive) character power ranking hierarchy

[LadyKulvax]

I'd be interested in seeing that quote.

 

I don't have the source but I'm sure LeGenD could provide the quote

[S_W_LeGenD]

I would appreciate input on powers of following:-

 

- Darth Nihilus

- Tulak Hord

- Dread Masters (6 in total)

- Ajunta Pall

- Sorzus Syn

- Marka Ragnos

- XoXaan

- Karness Murr

- Remulus Dreypa

- Darth Arho

- Vodal Kressh

- Darth Ikoral

- Darth Baras

- Darth Jadus

Edited June 28, 2014 by S_W_LeGenD

[Selenial]

However if you take note of the other displays I quoted, you would see that the knowledge she gained clearly transferred into her immense power.

 

Also, regardless it was Dun Moch that defeated Sion, if it wasn't for this Surik would have died, too exhausted to fight.

 

Surik defeated him (What was it?) 5 times? In the heart of the most powerful Dark Side nexus in the Galaxy.

 

And she can't have been that tired out, seeing as she went straight on and faced Traya.

 

And we need to evaluate Surik a little more closely here, you're not giving her enough credit as she is due.

 

Force Enlightenment is the living embodiment of the Light Side of the Force, something Sunrider never mastered.

 

You say Surik never had natural ability in Battle Meditation. That is the furthest from the truth, when she was just a padawan, even those on the Council at Dantooine (Vrook & Vandarr) considered her to be an average force user at best, but one of the most talented leaders in the order. And no, that can't just be her force bonds, because she obviously didn't develop them with everyone she ever went on a mission with.

In terms of its power, we saw on Onderon that her sheer strength in Battle meditation allowed guards who were being slaughtered by far better trained Vaklu soldiers, to overwhelm the enemy.... all of them. And this wasn't just cohesion, she was bolstering them with the force (How else would a losing 1v1 fight turn into an execution?)

 

Let's not forget that she had command of more of the Republic fleet than Revan and Malak combined. She was a genius tactician, and Battle Meditation is referenced by Bao Dur (Indirectly)

 

Surik possessed some of the greatest Mind-Reading techniques of the era. Traya was astounded, and left speechless when Surik was able to read the inner most thoughts, not just the surface feelings of other people. Not to mention these people were Jedi, and in the case of Atton and Visas, specifically trained against these kinds of techniques by people who used them themselves.

 

And yes, while Nomi faced a larger Sith Empire, she didn't have to face it alone.

[Selenial]

I would appreciate input on powers of following:-

 

- Darth Nihilus - Greater than the Sith Emperor if we're counting his force drain

- Dread Masters (6 in total) - Not powerful enough for the list unless they're together.

- Darth Jadus - A solid candidate, said to be second only to the emperor, basically did whatever he wanted with the Dark Council and played with Marr like a rag doll.

 

Those are the only ones I have any prevalent opinions on really.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Thank you for your input again.

 

---

 

I would also like to clarify the evaluation criteria of characters for rankings:-

 

1. Accolades

2. Performance against enemies (victories; losses; victories with support)

3. Specific feats (if known)

4. Any information that may help assess the position of a character in the mythos

 

The aforementioned points would make it easy for fellow members to present information.

[LadyKulvax]

Surik defeated him (What was it?) 5 times? In the heart of the most powerful Dark Side nexus in the Galaxy.

 

And she can't have been that tired out, seeing as she went straight on and faced Traya.

 

And we need to evaluate Surik a little more closely here, you're not giving her enough credit as she is due.

 

Force Enlightenment is the living embodiment of the Light Side of the Force, something Sunrider never mastered.

 

You say Surik never had natural ability in Battle Meditation. That is the furthest from the truth, when she was just a padawan, even those on the Council at Dantooine (Vrook & Vandarr) considered her to be an average force user at best, but one of the most talented leaders in the order. And no, that can't just be her force bonds, because she obviously didn't develop them with everyone she ever went on a mission with.

In terms of its power, we saw on Onderon that her sheer strength in Battle meditation allowed guards who were being slaughtered by far better trained Vaklu soldiers, to overwhelm the enemy.... all of them. And this wasn't just cohesion, she was bolstering them with the force (How else would a losing 1v1 fight turn into an execution?)

 

Let's not forget that she had command of more of the Republic fleet than Revan and Malak combined. She was a genius tactician, and Battle Meditation is referenced by Bao Dur (Indirectly)

 

Surik possessed some of the greatest Mind-Reading techniques of the era. Traya was astounded, and left speechless when Surik was able to read the inner most thoughts, not just the surface feelings of other people. Not to mention these people were Jedi, and in the case of Atton and Visas, specifically trained against these kinds of techniques by people who used them themselves.

 

And yes, while Nomi faced a larger Sith Empire, she didn't have to face it alone.

 

Unless you forgot after the first duel with Traya, Surik was completely exhausted and barely noticed Traya's three bladed assault.

 

Oh I know full well what her capabilities are, I am the one who turned opinion on her around in this section in the first place.

 

Force Enlightenment is a state of mind, not some kind of technique you master it's essentially achieving a deeper understanding and connection to the Light Side of the Force which Sunrider clearly shows.

 

I did not say she didn't have a natural connection to the Force only that it is theoretical, the entire Battle of Onderon scenario you bring up is actually dependant on whether or not you chose Battle Meditation as a power, you can then have the option of boosting your faction's forces.

 

Whilst it is possible and you have a strong theory it is still only that.

 

Sunrider could even use Battle Meditation to stop the illusions and mind control abilities of the Sith full stop, she even had Aleema Keto writhing in agony, demoralising your opponents with it is one thing but genuinely incapacitating them completely is another.

 

However Surik was facing a Triumvirate she was perfectly suited to face. Grand Master Sunrider however spent decades eradicating a much more vast and varied Sith threat with no aid or companions to support her.

[Aurbere]

Sunrider could even use Battle Meditation to stop the illusions and mind control abilities of the Sith full stop, she even had Aleema Keto writhing in agony, demoralising your opponents with it is one thing but genuinely incapacitating them completely is another.

 

This, I feel, is the underlying difference between Nomi Sunrider and Meetra Surik. Meetra uses her abilities primarily in a passive, non-aggressive way. She bolsters the combat effectiveness of not only herself, but others as well. Nomi uses her powers to directly strike at the Dark Side in a more aggressive way.

 

Certainly Surik can be offensive, but Nomi's abilities are far more capable in this area. This is evident in her battle meditation abilities. You already mentioned her attack on Aleema, but there's more. Her battle meditation acted like outright mind control and it was something she could call on almost instantly in practically any situation. Now, I don't know if the guides call this something else, but that's what the comics call it.

 

Again, this is just my opinion.

[Canino]

I completely agree with Rayla on this, however, I would likely put Surik just under Sunrider. Both are vastly powerful, but Sunrider definitely takes the edge.

 

I would also like to nominate Thon for a spot on the Jedi list, and Nihilus for a spot on the Sith list.

[Beniboybling]

However if you take note of the other displays I quoted, you would see that the knowledge she gained clearly transferred into her immense power.

 

Also, regardless it was Dun Moch that defeated Sion, if it wasn't for this Surik would have died, too exhausted to fight.

True enough. But the same could be said for Surik.

 

Unless you have a source, it seems an assumption to believe that if in the same situation as Nomi she would have fared worse. Fact of the matter is Sion failed to defeat either of them, and was slapped down multiple times.

 

I mean lets not forget that Surik was in the presence of a crushing dark side nexus, which was in turn empowering the hordes of Sith she had to wade through to finally get to Sion (oh and don't forget the storm beasts, noxious gas etc.) who himself was at his peak on the planet, and then she went on to defeat Traya - and only then did she tire.

 

Its a heroic feat of endurance in itself, I think with that combined it more than equals Nomi's accomplishment.

 

I personally am not sure what to make of this, obviously any decision made here I'll transfer over to the Jedi list. Both seem very powerful, both achieved high levels of enlightenment and both were highly skilled in Sense.

[Beniboybling]

This, I feel, is the underlying difference between Nomi Sunrider and Meetra Surik. Meetra uses her abilities primarily in a passive, non-aggressive way. She bolsters the combat effectiveness of not only herself, but others as well. Nomi uses her powers to directly strike at the Dark Side in a more aggressive way.

 

Certainly Surik can be offensive, but Nomi's abilities are far more capable in this area. This is evident in her battle meditation abilities. You already mentioned her attack on Aleema, but there's more. Her battle meditation acted like outright mind control and it was something she could call on almost instantly in practically any situation. Now, I don't know if the guides call this something else, but that's what the comics call it.

 

Again, this is just my opinion.

Is that true though? Or just a product of game mechanics. All Meetra's offense feats are game mechanics, in cutscenes her role is going to always be pretty passive, and then we just have general stuff like "she went and defeated all these guys" and of course buffs, cause games love their buffs. And does offense really > defense anyway?

 

And the Exile has struck against the dark side too, she had a profound ability to sever people from the Force at a young age, and arguably has better feats in that respect to Nomi considering she cut off Darth Traya from the Force.

[Aurbere]

Is that true though? Or just a product of game mechanics. All Meetra's offense feats are game mechanics, in cutscenes her role is going to always be pretty passive, and then we just have general stuff like "she went and defeated all these guys" and of course buffs, cause games love their buffs. And does offense really > defense anyway?

 

And the Exile has struck against the dark side too, she had a profound ability to sever people from the Force at a young age, and arguably has better feats in that respect to Nomi considering she cut off Darth Traya from the Force.

 

I took my information on Surik from Rayla's thread on her, of which I assume includes all of her canonically defined abilities.

 

I grant Meetra an edge in regards to Sever Force, but it appears that Nomi has a greater ability in offensive abilities in general, which I feel Rayla has made obvious.

[Beniboybling]

I took my information on Surik from Rayla's thread on her, of which I assume includes all of her canonically defined abilities.

 

I grant Meetra an edge in regards to Sever Force, but it appears that Nomi has a greater ability in offensive abilities in general, which I feel Rayla has made obvious.

Well sure, but what I'm saying is that "canon" because its all from the game, doesn't do a great job of showing off her powers. I mean, in terms of offense there aren't any powers I'm aware of that Surik doesn't possess.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that Surik has never got a chance to throw around a Krayt dragon. Or anything really.

[Aurbere]

Well sure, but what I'm saying is that "canon" because its all from the game, doesn't do a great job of showing off her powers. I mean, in terms of offense there aren't any powers I'm aware of that Surik doesn't possess.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that Surik has never got a chance to throw around a Krayt dragon. Or anything really.

 

Well, that's not really her fault, is it?

[Selenial]

I took my information on Surik from Rayla's thread on her, of which I assume includes all of her canonically defined abilities.

 

I grant Meetra an edge in regards to Sever Force, but it appears that Nomi has a greater ability in offensive abilities in general, which I feel Rayla has made obvious.

 

That's another thing though.

 

You know what Sever Force is? It's a concentrated wall of light.

 

Which means Surik called on the wall of light in the Greatest Dark Side Nexus in the Galaxy. That is HUGE.

 

Edit: Source, in case anyone's wondering:

This technique blinds your enemy to the Force with a wall of light, a permanent blockage if you so choose, rendering him unable to use Jedi powers. It is difficult. And it is the most devastating attack possible using the powers of the light side. To block a Jedi from the Force—even a Dark Jedi—is a terrible thing.

- Jedi vs Sith, The essential guide to the force.

Surik used this on a Sith lord By the way, an incredibly powerful one.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Selenial

[Selenial]

Unless you forgot after the first duel with Traya, Surik was completely exhausted and barely noticed Traya's three bladed assault.

 

Oh I know full well what her capabilities are, I am the one who turned opinion on her around in this section in the first place.

 

Force Enlightenment is a state of mind, not some kind of technique you master it's essentially achieving a deeper understanding and connection to the Light Side of the Force which Sunrider clearly shows.

 

I did not say she didn't have a natural connection to the Force only that it is theoretical, the entire Battle of Onderon scenario you bring up is actually dependant on whether or not you chose Battle Meditation as a power, you can then have the option of boosting your faction's forces.

 

Whilst it is possible and you have a strong theory it is still only that.

 

Sunrider could even use Battle Meditation to stop the illusions and mind control abilities of the Sith full stop, she even had Aleema Keto writhing in agony, demoralising your opponents with it is one thing but genuinely incapacitating them completely is another.

 

However Surik was facing a Triumvirate she was perfectly suited to face. Grand Master Sunrider however spent decades eradicating a much more vast and varied Sith threat with no aid or companions to support her.

 

It matters not about the battle of Onderon, the KCG dictates Battle Meditation as one of her powers, which means she would have used it on Onderon.

 

As for you turning around everyones opinions on her, she was never underrated around these parts to the likes of other characters (Dooku, Traya, Ventress, Kenobi), and just because you did a valiant job of turning around the opinions of the fools that visit these forums once in a blue moon, doesn't mean you've considered every angle.

 

And yes, Aurbere is right. Sunrider uses most of her Light Side abilities as an offence, Surik as a defense. Which is why I believe Surik mastered the art of Enlightenment and Sunrider didn't, Kenobi was in the Light but he still had his moments of love, anger etc, same could be said for Vrook and the others.

 

Surik wasn't perfectly suited to face them, she was perfectly suited to Survive. She was the only Jedi that could avoid their Force Draining abilities, but that does not mean her striking them down in combat is any less impressive.

[LadyKulvax]

True enough. But the same could be said for Surik.

 

Unless you have a source, it seems an assumption to believe that if in the same situation as Nomi she would have fared worse. Fact of the matter is Sion failed to defeat either of them, and was slapped down multiple times.

 

I mean lets not forget that Surik was in the presence of a crushing dark side nexus, which was in turn empowering the hordes of Sith she had to wade through to finally get to Sion (oh and don't forget the storm beasts, noxious gas etc.) who himself was at his peak on the planet, and then she went on to defeat Traya - and only then did she tire.

 

Its a heroic feat of endurance in itself, I think with that combined it more than equals Nomi's accomplishment.

 

I personally am not sure what to make of this, obviously any decision made here I'll transfer over to the Jedi list. Both seem very powerful, both achieved high levels of enlightenment and both were highly skilled in Sense.

 

However Sunrider has simply shown superior feats by comparison.

 

Also the canon states once the first bout against Traya had ended she was so exhausted that not even the Force could keep her fighting, she was relegated to stop, drop and roll tactics when Traya's telekinetic attack started and was lucky Traya had nothing left in the tank herself.

 

Let us compare their fights vs Darth Sion:

 

Surik fought him on Malachor V a strong Dark Side Nexus, after fighting a horde of Sith and won after several bouts via Dun Moch.

 

Sunrider fought him on Ziost a strong Dark Side Nexus, Sion was aided by many Dark Jedi, the fight lasted three nights until Sion fled.

 

In my opinion Sunrider has the most impressive outcome, not only did she fight Sion and his Dark Jedi simultaneously but she fought them single-handedly for three days and Sion just ran off.

[LadyKulvax]

It matters not about the battle of Onderon, the KCG dictates Battle Meditation as one of her powers, which means she would have used it on Onderon.

 

As for you turning around everyones opinions on her, she was never underrated around these parts to the likes of other characters (Dooku, Traya, Ventress, Kenobi), and just because you did a valiant job of turning around the opinions of the fools that visit these forums once in a blue moon, doesn't mean you've considered every angle.

 

And yes, Aurbere is right. Sunrider uses most of her Light Side abilities as an offence, Surik as a defense. Which is why I believe Surik mastered the art of Enlightenment and Sunrider didn't, Kenobi was in the Light but he still had his moments of love, anger etc, same could be said for Vrook and the others.

 

Surik wasn't perfectly suited to face them, she was perfectly suited to Survive. She was the only Jedi that could avoid their Force Draining abilities, but that does not mean her striking them down in combat is any less impressive.

 

Very well, however a canon statement clearly dictates that Sunrider was the most natural to the ability and this is reinforced by her displays which are extremely advanced.

 

Oh really? because I remember three years of the Exile being completely overshadowed by the infallible Revan and being held as no better than just another of his generals or one of the favourites were 'the Exile was just mopping up after Revan's real victory' with a few entirely unrelated statements about how KotOR 2 sucked and KotOR was infinitely better.

 

Numerous statements show that Sunrider had a very deep and powerful connection to the Light Side with an exceptional understanding of the Cosmic Force and her advancement from Padawan to Grand Master is the single most natural connection to the Force seen until Anakin Skywalker, even then she was a much faster student and had a faster curve in power growth.

 

Yet the natural advantages she had against the Triumvirate did negate what allowed them to so easily kill Jedi in the first place, this you cannot dismiss.

Edited June 28, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Selenial]

Oh really? because I remember three years of the Exile being completely overshadowed by the infallible Revan and being held as no better than just another of his generals or one of the favourites were 'the Exile was just mopping up after Revan's real victory' with a few entirely unrelated statements about how KotOR 2 sucked and KotOR was infinitely better.

 

Numerous statements show that Sunrider had a very deep and powerful connection to the Light Side with an exceptional understanding of the Cosmic Force and her advancement from Padawan to Grand Master is the single most natural connection to the Force seen until Anakin Skywalker, even then she was a much faster student and had a faster curve in power growth.

 

Yet the natural advantages she had against the Triumvirate did negate what allowed them to so easily kill Jedi in the first place, this you cannot dismiss.

 

Indeed. But by Beni, Aurbere, or the people around nowadays?

I remember back when the forums looked far less snazzy than they do now, back when you were Rayla Felana and the Star Wars Discussion forum was virtually non existent, and I too remember the Revan fanboys coming out in droves, however that plays no part on now.

 

Perhaps, but I'd say Surik was a faster learner, learning in minutes what it took jedi masters "years to glimpse"

 

And yes, I agree, she had advantages where most Jedi would not, but it doesn't lessen the feats she performed.

[Beniboybling]

Indeed. But by Beni, Aurbere, or the people around nowadays?

I remember back when the forums looked far less snazzy than they do now, back when you were Rayla Felana and the Star Wars Discussion forum was virtually non existent, and I too remember the Revan fanboys coming out in droves, however that plays no part on now..

We have brought peace, freedom, justice and security to our new Empire!

[LadyKulvax]

Indeed. But by Beni, Aurbere, or the people around nowadays?

I remember back when the forums looked far less snazzy than they do now, back when you were Rayla Felana and the Star Wars Discussion forum was virtually non existent, and I too remember the Revan fanboys coming out in droves, however that plays no part on now.

 

Perhaps, but I'd say Surik was a faster learner, learning in minutes what it took jedi masters "years to glimpse"

 

And yes, I agree, she had advantages where most Jedi would not, but it doesn't lessen the feats she performed.

 

It was not non existent in the older days even the wiser ones such as Professor_Walsh deemed Surik paled by comparison and he remains to this day the most knowledgeable fan I've seen.

 

Sutik had the twin advantage of being trained once before and being linked to Traya which probably helped a great deal, she was retrained much like mind wiped Revan was, Sunrider however started entirely from scratch with no previous training or knowledge at all amd as an adult at that which as Luke's Praxeum showed, was exceptionally difficult.

 

Indeed but it was an advantage nonetheless, a life saving one on several occasions whereas Sunrider never had such protection, she still practically wiped out remnants of Kun's brotherhood, of which there were very many.

[Selenial]

Indeed but it was an advantage nonetheless, a life saving one on several occasions whereas Sunrider never had such protection, she still practically wiped out remnants of Kun's brotherhood, of which there were very many.

 

Perhaps, but the Sith without their force drain were just as powerful as the Sith Nomi faced.

 

However I feel we've both said our piece, let LeGeND and Beni decide for their respective threads, I don't think there's much more for us to bring up, seeing as we all know Nomi's and Surik's feats in Valor, might etc.

 

To be honest, I hold to the fact that calling on the Wall of Light on Malachor is what should tip her above Sunrider for everyone, but that's just me.

[Aurbere]

That's another thing though.

 

You know what Sever Force is? It's a concentrated wall of light.

 

Which means Surik called on the wall of light in the Greatest Dark Side Nexus in the Galaxy. That is HUGE.

 

Edit: Source, in case anyone's wondering:

This technique blinds your enemy to the Force with a wall of light, a permanent blockage if you so choose, rendering him unable to use Jedi powers. It is difficult. And it is the most devastating attack possible using the powers of the light side. To block a Jedi from the Force—even a Dark Jedi—is a terrible thing.

- Jedi vs Sith, The essential guide to the force.

Surik used this on a Sith lord By the way, an incredibly powerful one.

 

It is a major feat, and one ability that I credit her being superior to Nomi in.

 

I would just like to point out that I didn't really vouch for either of them. My first post was merely pointing out the differences between them. I'm honestly not sure which one is better.

[ToMyMa]

It is a major feat, and one ability that I credit her being superior to Nomi in.

 

I would just like to point out that I didn't really vouch for either of them. My first post was merely pointing out the differences between them. I'm honestly not sure which one is better.

 

I think it's pretty obvious Revan is the better here.

 

amirite?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In case someone falls for it - 'twas a joke. Of course I wasn't serious...?

[cs_zoltan]

That's another thing though.

 

You know what Sever Force is? It's a concentrated wall of light.

 

Which means Surik called on the wall of light in the Greatest Dark Side Nexus in the Galaxy. That is HUGE.

 

Edit: Source, in case anyone's wondering:

This technique blinds your enemy to the Force with a wall of light, a permanent blockage if you so choose, rendering him unable to use Jedi powers. It is difficult. And it is the most devastating attack possible using the powers of the light side. To block a Jedi from the Force—even a Dark Jedi—is a terrible thing.

- Jedi vs Sith, The essential guide to the force.

Surik used this on a Sith lord By the way, an incredibly powerful one.

 

You forget to mention that she was protected by a wound in the force............

[Selenial]

You forget to mention that she was protected by a wound in the force............

 

You don't seem to understand what that means.

 

Malachor rips your force energies away from you and forces you to embrace the Dark Side.

 

All her wound did was protect her from the Force Drain effects, the full weight of the Dark Side still made her physically Ill, and calling on the Light Side was nigh impossible on that planet, let alone in the middle of the Nexus, and the most potent Light Side ability possible.

 

So yeh, the wound had nothing to do with it.