Beniboybling Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 *Facedesk* Good lord.Revan was Power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force. /debate I kid, I kid. I'm just going by what was intially agreed in the Most Powerful Lists, with Revan above Surik (which I still believe). Nor am I confident that Nomi is more powerful than Surik. Which puts Revan above both of them. And the HoT succeeded were Revan failed, I think its clear he is stronger than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Name 9 ahead of the Meetra in Drew's novel. I'll give you Revan, Nomi Sunrider, the HoT and the Bar'senthor for free, so gimme 5 please. First of all, let's analyze what Meetra did in the novel: -The book implies that she and Scourge were equals, by Scourge being "unsure," who were to survive if they fought. -She was epically tooled by Nyriss, in both lightsaber combat and force strength. -Took quite a while to dispatch the imperial guard (around the same time as Scourge did), while Revan defeated one in a 2-3 move sequence. There are certainly 5 other jedi who could replicate this, many from the TOR era. Like Satele, Aryn Leneer, Tol Braga, Jaric Kaedan, and Master Wyellett. In case you don't know, Master Wyellett is the dude who saved multiple jedi council members from the starweird queen (not much details on her) and defeated Darth Baras, all before he communed with the force for years under a bunch of rubble to become more powerful than ever. Oh yeah, and by that point the Republic literally classified him as a superweapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Why do you think that the information concerning Hord is not accurate? We tend to accept official information at face value unless contradicted by another official information. Hord's capabilities and feats have been revealed in multiple sources including through knowledge of other characters, sourcebooks and codex entries of SWTOR. All is legit. Who are these contemporaries?When I say not accurate, I mean vague, non-specific. On top of that he lacks a single feat. Naga Sadow, Ludo Kressh etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I don't own it, unfortunately I started collecting too late for it, however one of my eBay friends (the one who introduced me to more in depth canon like sourcebooks) has it. IIRC, it's a hardback with a modified cover and close to 100 extra pages if not more, I'd need to ask her though because it's been a while since I actually browsed her collection. She sent me a scan on a page that included HK-01 though for Warrens Kaggath, and a few other neat tidbits that she thought would help the imperium (Wolfs not the only ones with SWTOR Consultants ) My consultants aren't just TOR related, they are all over the place actually. But alright, if it's there, fine...but strange that the internet, doesn't have anything about a collector's edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 In case you don't know, Master Wyellett is the dude who saved multiple jedi council members from the starweird queen (not much details on her) and defeated Darth Baras, all before he communed with the force for years under a bunch of rubble to become more powerful than ever. Oh yeah, and by that point the Republic literally classified him as a superweapon. Don't worry, I remember every named Jedi my Sith Warrior killed. Not much of a super weapon, really. Coincidentally, same character I killed Jaric Kaedan with. Funny how things work out sometimes. That said, don't underestimate Scourge. His presence put fear into the members of the Dark Council. I specifically remember Darth Sajar, who was exactly even with Tol Braga during their 3 day duel, and then scared to hell wenn Scourge was on the same planet. So while Drew Karpyshyn's use of Meetra's character is a demerit considering her KotOR persona, she isn't turned into a complete scrub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) My consultants aren't just TOR related, they are all over the place actually. But alright, if it's there, fine...but strange that the internet, doesn't have anything about a collector's edition. What the **** is an eBay friend? Iphone auto correct. I meant best. Also, I put SW and it changed to SWTOR >.> Edited June 30, 2014 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 What the **** is an eBay friend? Iphone auto correct. I meant best. Also, I put SW and it changed to SWTOR >.> Well aside from Ebay, like just googling it I would have thought it would have shown up....guess not. Anyway, moving on now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 What the **** is an eBay friend? Iphone auto correct. I meant best. Also, I put SW and it changed to SWTOR >.> I was wondering whether that was something like a pen pal you got to know via eBay Your phone is obviously plotting a conspiracy, tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Don't worry, I remember every named Jedi my Sith Warrior killed. Not much of a super weapon, really. Coincidentally, same character I killed Jaric Kaedan with. Funny how things work out sometimes. That said, don't underestimate Scourge. His presence put fear into the members of the Dark Council. I specifically remember Darth Sajar, who was exactly even with Tol Braga during their 3 day duel, and then scared to hell wenn Scourge was on the same planet. So while Drew Karpyshyn's use of Meetra's character is a demerit considering her KotOR persona, she isn't turned into a complete scrub. 1. The Emperor's Wrath, feats wise, is quite a ways above Meetra as depicted in Revan. Losing to him doesn't suggest inferiority to Meetra. 2. Scourge as or Revan is nothing compared to Scourge as of TOR. Scourge as of TOR had 300 years more experience, has one of the highest personal kill counts in the mythos, and would have filled out his potential, which Revan considered "incredible." Also to note is that scourge was stomped by a dark councillor in Revan, in TOR he cows even the best of them. He's far above his previous incarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 First of all, let's analyze what Meetra did in the novel: -The book implies that she and Scourge were equals, by Scourge being "unsure," who were to survive if they fought. -She was epically tooled by Nyriss, in both lightsaber combat and force strength. -Took quite a while to dispatch the imperial guard (around the same time as Scourge did), while Revan defeated one in a 2-3 move sequence. There are certainly 5 other jedi who could replicate this, many from the TOR era. Like Satele, Aryn Leneer, Tol Braga, Jaric Kaedan, and Master Wyellett. In case you don't know, Master Wyellett is the dude who saved multiple jedi council members from the starweird queen (not much details on her) and defeated Darth Baras, all before he communed with the force for years under a bunch of rubble to become more powerful than ever. Oh yeah, and by that point the Republic literally classified him as a superweapon. I would advise reading Rayla's Surik vs. Exile thread (or other recent threads involving the Exile) if you haven't. She goes over quite a few theories as to why Meetra performed so poorly. To sum it up for you, Nathema + Dromund Kaas = weak Meetra. In universe reason, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) I'll be sure to check it out, thanks. Edited June 30, 2014 by XSUPREMESKILLZX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I'll be sure to check it out, thanks. From my experience, the theories get ironed out as the discussion continued in other threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) I would advise reading Rayla's Surik vs. Exile thread (or other recent threads involving the Exile) if you haven't. She goes over quite a few theories as to why Meetra performed so poorly. To sum it up for you, Nathema + Dromund Kaas = weak Meetra. In universe reason, of course. With Revan not being influenced because he naturally draws on both light and dark side, I assume? @SKILLZ: What I said regarding Wyellett wasn't implying inferiority to Meetra, just pointing out I was well aware of his existence. Although, since we've gone there now, I might aswell point out that Wyellett was killed before the Warrior was named Emperor's Wrath and before he surpassed Darth Baras. Edited June 30, 2014 by Darkelefantos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 With Revan not being influenced because he naturally draws on both light and dark side, I assume? It is my belief that Revan's special condition allows him to benefit from Dark Side nexuses, or at least not affected at all. Whereas a pure Light Sider would be severely affected by one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I read through the Exile vs. Surik thread and all the comments, and it does help clear up quite a few things. However, something you said will always ring true: This can only be considered to be one thing: character murder through utter ignorance. Now we can try to repair some things, but many inconsistencies will still linger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I read through the Exile vs. Surik thread and all the comments, and it does help clear up quite a few things. However, something you said will always ring true: Unfortunately, it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) So, in regards to this thread, I suggest we find a line between the omnipotence displayed in KOTOR II and the relative mediocrity in TOR: Revan. Edited June 30, 2014 by XSUPREMESKILLZX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 We don't need the Revan Novel. Absence of power showings doesn't mean absence of power, how about we go off her showings in Kotor because those are her most impressive. It doesn't matter how drained she was in the Revan Novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 On the exile vs Revan from the way all the stories were written everytime the 2 of the characters were actually together or from an observation stand point of those looking at both characters it seems pretty obvious the intent is that Revan is stronger, but not by a lot. Most of their enemies are themselves hard to judge as we have a list of abilities for each, but very few cut scenes for both truly show casing their abilities as both saber wielders and force wielders thanks to the limited animation and engine the games had. At the end of the day, I am going with writers intent on this one and it seems clear that intent was Revan to be greater then Exile. Revan being listed as the strongest from the Mando Wars. Traya's description seems to call Revan the stronger, but the Exile her particular favored. And the Revan Novel seemingly leaning towards Revan being stronger even if it may be circumstantial. This over arcing issue is its difficult to pin either down as circumstances surround them all over the place but from the showing the authors and writers did put forth and the word choice of characters it seems obvious to me any way that Revan is intended to be the more powerful Also on the whole HoT thing, I think some one has a quote from Kas'im in their signature that perfectly explifies one of my beliefs. Sufficient skill with a blade can overcome a more powerful force wielder. The HoT's success is largely hinted at being a combination of his strong connection with the force, but even more so his martial prowess with a blade and physical combat. For this reason I do not believe he should be listed as one of the more powerful Force wielders, but assuredly as a powerful Saber duelist. To me he is the "Mace Windu" of the old republic, I feel the Barsen'thor is likely stronger, but the HoT's greater martial prowess makes up for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) The main problem associated with the HoT thing is that he/she would even need high level lightsaber skill to beat Vitiate. Vitiate is not a skilled duelist by any stretch of the imagination, therefore the Hero could be Maul level or lower duelist and still take down Vitiate very quickly if he/she got close. The trick, though, is that the Hero would have to weather to storm of Vitiate's force attacks to get close, which would require an immensely high level of power. Hell, after the Hero wins the bout, the Emperor notes that he/she possesses "immense power." So yeah, imo the hero should be on a top 10 list like this, even in terms of power. Edited June 30, 2014 by XSUPREMESKILLZX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 The main problem associated with the HoT thing is that he/she would even need high level lightsaber skill to beat Vitiate. Vitiate is not a skilled duelist by any stretch of the imagination, therefore the Hero could be Maul level or lower duelist and still take down Vitiate very quickly if he/she got close. The trick, though, is that the Hero would have to weather to storm of Vitiate's force attacks to get close, which would require an immensely high level of power. Hell, after the Hero wins the bout, the Emperor notes that he/she possesses "immense power." So yeah, imo the hero should be on a top 10 list like this, even in terms of power. Oh I agree, just dont think I would list him as #1 jedi, I believe others have greater power, but lack the saber skill to manage what he did. Like I said "Mace Windu" of the OR, Mace Windu is not just a skilled duelist he is incredibly powerful in the force as well, just not as much as some others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Well, it depends what you mean. In terms of force mastery, the Hero most definitely isn't #1, since we've got people like Nomi, Revan, and Meetra. In terms of pure, raw power though? It's certainly arguable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 So, in regards to this thread, I suggest we find a line between the omnipotence displayed in KOTOR II and the relative mediocrity in TOR: Revan. This, I believe, is the best representation of her abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 This, I believe, is the best representation of her abilities. Interesting. I'm gonna bookmark it for future reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Interesting. I'm gonna bookmark it for future reference. Well, it is in my index thread as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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