Aurbere Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Attempting to rank Tulak Hord or any of the ancients would be a futile task, we have no hard facts just accolades and accolades don't provide accurate enough information required for specific rankings. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_W_LeGenD Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) IMO he's the number one jedi. Overall, though, I'd still rank Vitiate ahead of in terms of power. After all, it's blatantly stated that he is, and he's got the chops to prove it. It's somewhat difficult to pinpoint/quantify how weakened he was from the ritual and how amped he was from the dark temple, but I don't see the Hero as legitimately more powerful than the Emperor. Hmm. --- @Beniboybling Who is no. 1 Jedi in your opinion? Edited June 30, 2014 by S_W_LeGenD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I feel that the no.1 Jedi is Nomi Sunrider. I feel that the information Rayla provided has affirmed my personal belief that the only Old Republic Jedi capable of standing up to Exar Kun is Nomi Sunrider, which is a pretty big deal, considering that Exar Kun was chosen over Vitiate by the Ancient Sith Lords to bring about the new Sith Golden Age. I also feel that player characters are too difficult to judge for rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) And the Hero was the only one who could stand up to the Sith Emperor Kun was chosen above Vitiate by the ancients, yes, though this would probably have more to do with motives and circumstances than personal power. Kun was strong, "the most powerful of all the ancient sith lords," as he's been called by canonical sources, but the Sith Emperor is stronger. Regardless of the quotes and accolades, Vitiate's still the guy who: -Defeated Revan in fair combat using the ability Revan is greatest at defending against (lightning) - Was more than a match for the trio of Revan, Meetra, and Scourge -Easily defeated four of the most powerful jedi in the galaxy, while not even exerting his full power (he didn't want to kill them). -Telepathcally Dominated Tol Braga, perhaps the brightest and resolute jedi in the order with a "thought," as per Braga's own admission -Mentally stalemated Sel Makor, a dark side entity that, "threatened all of existence," for months. Sel Makor was also in awe of the Emperor's power when he finally took control of his body, (after the Emperor lowered his defenses for the Wrath to strike him down.) However, if not considering the Hero of Tython or the Barsen'thor, then I'll have to think about that one. Nomi would have a very good chance at nabbing the #1 spot for jedi. Edited June 30, 2014 by XSUPREMESKILLZX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I understand that we haven't seen Tulak Hord in big screen but official information about him is as much legit as any other information.Big screen? As in cinema? You realise the entire Old Republic era has never seen the big screen. No matter how "legit" the information is, its not accurate, its not accurate at all. And what about Tulak Hord's contemporaries? Who have received just as many accolades I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Hmm. --- @Beniboybling Who is no. 1 Jedi in your opinion?The HoT or Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) As far as the Collector's Edition not existing goes how about you ask Selenial? you know another owner of the same book. I don't own it, unfortunately I started collecting too late for it, however one of my IRL friends (the one who introduced me to more in depth canon like sourcebooks) has it IIRC, from what I hear it's a hardback with a modified cover and close to 100 extra pages if not more, I'd need to ask her though because it's been a while since I actually browsed her collection. She sent some stuff from a page that included HK-01 though for Warrens Kaggath, and a few other neat tidbits that she thought would help the imperium, (though I'm not sure if they were from the same one) Edited July 6, 2014 by Selenial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 The HoT or Revan. *Facedesk* Good lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 And the Hero was the only one who could stand up to the Sith Emperor Kun was chosen above Vitiate by the ancients, yes, though this would probably have more to do with motives and circumstances than personal power. Kun was strong, "the most powerful of all the ancient sith lords," as he's been called by canonical sources, but the Sith Emperor is stronger. Regardless of the quotes and accolades, Vitiate's still the guy who: -Defeated Revan in fair combat using the ability Revan is greatest at defending against (lightning) - Was more than a match for the trio of Revan, Meetra, and Scourge -Easily defeated four of the most powerful jedi in the galaxy, while not even exerting his full power (he didn't want to kill them). -Telepathcally Dominated Tol Braga, perhaps the brightest and resolute jedi in the order with a "thought," as per Braga's own admission -Mentally stalemated Sel Makor, a dark side entity that, "threatened all of existence," for months. Sel Makor was also in awe of the Emperor's power when he finally took control of his body, (after the Emperor lowered his defenses for the Wrath to strike him down.) However, if not considering the Hero of Tython or the Barsen'thor, then I'll have to think about that one. Nomi would have a very good chance at nabbing the #1 spot for jedi. It saddens me how many people can't actually remember that scene. Vitiate never fought All Three, he'll he never fought two at once. He probably would have fallen to a combined assault in seconds, Especially with Suriks force bolstering abilities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) How do we know from the game he doesnt have all the abilities of every spec. What cut scene proved he didnt. The one where you choose an advanced class. It has a story cutscene that forces specialisation, meaning half the specs can't be accredited to him if we want to be fair. And don't say "That's not part of the class story!". If we don't assume full completion, we might aswell stop right now and exclude all SWTOR player characters altogether, including HoT and Bar'senthor who'd otherwise make this list. On the topic of Tulak Hord, the main problem is that he has NO appearance in the entire saga. He was mentioned, we heard legends, saw his tomb, heard Khem's tales. But he has no game, no book, no comic, nothing to his name but vague statements from people who didn't know him (Kreia) and his former servant who is not only biased but also doesn't remember everything correctly (Khem). His power is even contradicted by Talos Drellik, who, based on knowledge the Reclamation Service has, states that Kallig may have been the most powerful Sith Lord of his time. And Hord and Kallig were in fact rivals. I'd agree with Nomi as #1 Jedi, but I'm not sure who'd follow. Revan, HoT and Bar'senthor aren't that far from each other IMO. And maybe even someone else I'm not aware of. EDIT: It saddens me how many people can't actually remember that scene. Vitiate never fought All Three, hell he never fought two at once. He probably would have fallen to a combined assault in seconds, Especially with Suriks force bolstering abilities... Yes, he never fought all three, but in SECONDS? You're overestimating them. Scourge is on a level far below Vitiate, Meetra was not in possession of her full powers due to the Dark Side Nexus and Revan was struggling. I'd say he could defeat all of them without drawing a weapon, as he did Tol Braga's Strike Team. Edited June 30, 2014 by Darkelefantos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_W_LeGenD Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) And the Hero was the only one who could stand up to the Sith Emperor Kun was chosen above Vitiate by the ancients, yes, though this would probably have more to do with motives and circumstances than personal power. Kun was strong, "the most powerful of all the ancient sith lords," as he's been called by canonical sources, but the Sith Emperor is stronger. Regardless of the quotes and accolades, Vitiate's still the guy who: -Defeated Revan in fair combat using the ability Revan is greatest at defending against (lightning) - Was more than a match for the trio of Revan, Meetra, and Scourge -Easily defeated four of the most powerful jedi in the galaxy, while not even exerting his full power (he didn't want to kill them). -Telepathcally Dominated Tol Braga, perhaps the brightest and resolute jedi in the order with a "thought," as per Braga's own admission -Mentally stalemated Sel Makor, a dark side entity that, "threatened all of existence," for months. Sel Makor was also in awe of the Emperor's power when he finally took control of his body, (after the Emperor lowered his defenses for the Wrath to strike him down.) However, if not considering the Hero of Tython or the Barsen'thor, then I'll have to think about that one. Nomi would have a very good chance at nabbing the #1 spot for jedi. Some solid points here. --- @Aubere @LadyKulvax As good as Nomi Sunrider is, it is not clear if she is better then lets say Revan. The latter Jedi have been officially touted as the Jedi Order's most powerful champion with command of the Force superior to that of even Darth Traya and Darth Nihilus. Revan have some excellent demonstrations of immense raw power under his belt such as his exceptional combat performance in the Star Forge (a place very strong in the dark side), quick dismissal of Darth Nyriss, sending Emperor packing with a blast of power by approaching oneness like condition at will (a feat no other able to pull off against Emperor) and pulling down gigantic rocks on the arena in the Foundry while fighting an Imperial Strike Team sent to assassinate him. Big screen? As in cinema? You realise the entire Old Republic era has never seen the big screen. No matter how "legit" the information is, its not accurate, its not accurate at all. And what about Tulak Hord's contemporaries? Who have received just as many accolades I'm sure. Why do you think that the information concerning Hord is not accurate? We tend to accept official information at face value unless contradicted by another official information. Hord's capabilities and feats have been revealed in multiple sources including through knowledge of other characters, sourcebooks and codex entries of SWTOR. All is legit. Who are these contemporaries? The HoT or Revan. Thank you It saddens me how many people can't actually remember that scene. Vitiate never fought All Three, he'll he never fought two at once. He probably would have fallen to a combined assault in seconds, Especially with Suriks force bolstering abilities... But here is explicit confirmation of what would have happened: From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan Betraying his allies had not altered the inevitable outcome; the Emperor would have won regardless. At least this way Scourge was still alive to carry on their cause. Edited June 30, 2014 by S_W_LeGenD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 As good as Nomi Sunrider is, it is not clear if she is better then lets say Revan. The latter Jedi have been officially touted as the Jedi Order's most powerful champion with command of the Force superior to that of even Darth Traya and Darth Nihilus. Revan have some excellent demonstrations of immense raw power under his belt such as his exceptional combat performance in the Star Forge (a place very strong in the dark side), quick dismissal of Darth Nyriss, sending Emperor packing with a blast of power by approaching oneness like condition at will (a feat no other able to pull off against Emperor) and pulling down gigantic rocks on the arena in the Foundry while fighting an Imperial Strike Team sent to assassinate him. Actually, it's pretty clear that Surik and Sunrider eclipse him. Revans oneness means nothing, because he could never master the deepest dark side techniques like Vitiate, or the highest Light Side techniques like Surik/Sunrider. Their Wall of Light feats alone outweigh everything Revan did on Kaas, and him storming the Star Forge is nothing compared to Surik on Malachor. Oh, and Traya was more powerful than Revan (On Malachor at least) and Surik defeated her, that's another thing to add to the pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 But here is explicit confirmation of what would have happened: Because the Imperial Guards were breaking down the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 And the Hero was the only one who could stand up to the Sith Emperor We have no idea how that engagement goes down. We have no idea what happened. Besides, the Sith Emperor was evidently weakened by several factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Yes, he never fought all three, but in SECONDS? You're overestimating them. Scourge is on a level far below Vitiate, Meetra was not in possession of her full powers due to the Dark Side Nexus and Revan was struggling. I'd say he could defeat all of them without drawing a weapon, as he did Tol Braga's Strike Team. Scourge would be a distraction. Revan would feed her energy thanks to their force bond. She would bolster them all with her prowess in Battle meditation, Force Valor, force speed etc. Vitiate sucks with a lightsaber, the force only gets you so far. If he really thought he could beat them all, why did the attempt terrify him into hiding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Actually, it's pretty clear that Surik and Sunrider eclipse him. Revans oneness means nothing, because he could never master the deepest dark side techniques like Vitiate, or the highest Light Side techniques like Surik/Sunrider. Their Wall of Light feats alone outweigh everything Revan did on Kaas, and him storming the Star Forge is nothing compared to Surik on Malachor. Oh, and Traya was more powerful than Revan (On Malachor at least) and Surik defeated her, that's another thing to add to the pile. Pretty much this. Especially the bolded part. The Star Forge is good, but Revan had help most of the way. Surik stormed the Trayus Academy and defeated two of the era's juggernauts single-handedly. This is more impressive than Revan beating Bastila and Malak, both of whom are inferior to Traya and Sion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 The problem I have with Meetra is Drew Karpyshyn. He never even bothered to play KOTOR 2, so he doesn't know the Exile's capabilities evidenced by the game (i.e. beating down sith throughout the entire trayus academy, sion, and traya, all through the most powerful dark side nexus the galaxy ever saw.) In the novel, he decided to go the path of "my character is better than yours," and completely ruined her. She should have been able to defeat Nyriss all by herself IMO. Instead, Nyriss tools Meetra and Scourge simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 The problem I have with Meetra is Drew Karpyshyn. He never even bothered to play KOTOR 2, so he doesn't know the Exile's capabilities evidenced by the game (i.e. beating down sith throughout the entire trayus academy, sion, and traya, all through the most powerful dark side nexus the galaxy ever saw.) In the novel, he decided to go the path of "my character is better than yours," and completely ruined her. She should have been able to defeat Nyriss all by herself IMO. Instead, Nyriss tools Meetra and Scourge simultaneously. Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 If we choose to disregard Karpyshyn's crappy version of Meetra, she should be in the top 5 no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 If we choose to disregard Karpyshyn's crappy version of Meetra, she should be in the top 5 no doubt. Sometimes I wish we could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) If we choose to disregard Karpyshyn's crappy version of Meetra, she should be in the top 5 no doubt. You either disregard the whole character or you disregard nothing. We can't simply choose what suits us and ignore the rest. Even still, top 5 is possible with ease, even though Drew clearly makes Revan out to be more powerful. Edited June 30, 2014 by Darkelefantos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Which offers a massive inconsistency. One version is probably top 5, the other isn't even top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) Which offers a massive inconsistency. One version is probably top 5, the other isn't even top 10. Name 9 ahead of the Meetra in Drew's novel. I'll give you Revan, Nomi Sunrider, the HoT and the Bar'senthor for free, so gimme 5 please. On second thought, it's not so important, considering we can use KotOR to justify giving her a better position Edited June 30, 2014 by Darkelefantos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Name 9 ahead of the Meetra in Drew's novel. I'll give you Revan, Nomi Sunrider, the HoT and the Bar'senthor for free, so gimme 5 please. Unknown Jedi #7 Unknown Jedi #178 Revanchist #1731 That one random kid from Coruscant T3-M4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Unknown Jedi #7 Unknown Jedi #178 Revanchist #1731 That one random kid from Coruscant T3-M4 T3 was turned to dust by the Emperor because he was a nuisance. T3 > Revan? Like your list, but I'm not sure which kid you mean. The one on the left of the club, or the shady one in the alley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts