So sad too see so many players begging for content...

[Sangrar]

The game has become really stale for PvE players. And GSH, in my opinion, is just another template for cartel market transactions. I'm sure lots of people, including myself, might find it fun to decorate their houses and spend their CC's on items for it, but how sustainable is that? People are bored, and probably have been for a long time. there's othing wrong with what the OP has said. He's very accurate with his points. As for all the complaints of whiners in the forums about the game, if they didn't care about the game and wanted it to be a success, they wouldn't take the time to voice their concerns here. That's the whole point of a forum. Voice your concerns, issues, idea's. U don't just file them under trolls or whiners and disregard what they have to say. The lack of effort by BW is obviously popular. And if the game was as good as other people claim it to be, why would there be so much complaining about it?

 

it won't be all cartel market though. The GSH page shows CREDIT VALUES for housing, and I know it was mentioned somewhere some housing items would drop from ops which is consistent with some of the decorations revealed in the last cantina tour.

 

As for the whole "troll" thing, seriously could people let that go. Both sides insult eachother all the time, its the internet thats always bound to happen, its not because people are "haters" and its not because people are "white knights", and I have seen many people get insulted in the cross fire even though they just stated their honest BUT RESPECTFUL (aka no namecalling the people they are quoting as "mindless defenders"), its getting annoying.

[Pistols]

PvP servers are dying because the players who populate them are anti-social trolls who think World PvP is pwning low level toons with their full PvP gear set 55 while screaming at them to "L2P".

 

Yes PvP servers (US), all 2 of them, are dying because they think "pwning lowbies" is content and are all anti-social. Way to blanket statement their chief, your analysis is legit, and there is no need to ask for your sources on that PvP is literally dead because of poor direction and bad development in that aspect, that's not fiction, that's fact.

 

I'd like to know your source inside EA/BW since you seem to know all the facts. If you are going to hold up something as fact, you'd better show your work. Otherwise, like the entirety of the game forums, it is nothing more than one persons opinion.

 

My source is simple: The millions of players who left the game within a few months, and the continuous plummet of the player base over the last few years, and the very real opinions of thousands since then posted on the forums. If you want to take the word "hardcore" so literally, I have no issues using even "casual" in the same sentence. Servers are NOT even close to healthy as they once were, and whether your gameplay is PvE, RP or PvP, it's an easy sign that players in general are unhappy with the game, because it has poor "staying power".

 

Continue believing this game is doing great, the content is solid and is filling up the servers where players are screaming for extra servers due to lag and crowdedness, but I'll just simply be real and giggle. Find me any sources that dispute what I wrote, and I'll gladly eat my words. Opinions can be correct and on point, I suggest you consider this opinion heavily, cause it's not far off. /cheerio

 

[Gnoblesse]

If it is, indeed, fact then you can both show your proof. If you can't back up your facts, they are nothing more than supposition and opinion. Don't be mad because you fell for the bait.

 

I have toons on Pot5, I PvP regularly, I progression raid...all of which gives me plenty of knowledge about what is going on.

 

The majority have no problems. The minority that consider themselves to be the so-called "hardcore" are not the players development cycles are planned around. We are all competitive, so I'm not sure what community you are talking about there. We wouldn't keep playing the game if we weren't competitive...with ourselves or against others.

 

Edit: Forums ate my post...

 

I feel compelled to point out that by these standards, Andryah's original comment, which was actually the catalyst for this particular tangent, was also supposition and opinion. We wouldn't even be going down this road in the first place if she had not chosen to try to "inform" PvPers that they were, well, wrong about PvP and the history of what did and didn't happen in the history of certain servers and communities.

 

As I stated earlier in the thread, the claim that there was no cooperation is easily dismissed by the existence of a fair amount of YouTube videos showing US vs EU matches taking place on the PTS. That didn't just happen randomly.

[Andryah]

Continue believing this game is doing great, the content is solid and is filling up the servers where players are screaming for extra servers due to lag and crowdedness, but I'll just simply be real and giggle.

 

Hey ya Pistols... it can't be too bad... since you are still paying to play the game.

 

I don't perceive you to be a masochist... so one could conclude if it was a grievous as you paint it out to be... then you would have moved on to an MMO that honors your every wish and command.

[Andryah]

As I stated earlier in the thread, the claim that there was no cooperation is easily dismissed by the existence of a fair amount of YouTube videos showing US vs EU matches taking place on the PTS. That didn't just happen randomly.

 

PTS is not live... and you know it. People do all kinds of things together on PTS.. precisely to help flesh out testing for issues. This is a limited focus red-herring you are presenting.

 

Go back and reread my original comment. My point was that PvPers do try to cooperate collectively to overcome server population issues....but once they have huddled together.. they then collectively breakdown in cooperation and focus on what PvPers like to do ----> destroy other players. Some, not all, get carried away and destroy the adhoc cooperation in the process. Some get mad and leave and head back to their original server, etc. etc.

 

I used the life cycle of The Fatman as a reference example because of the stark clarity in how this played out back before Bioware could/would do anything to address low pops on the massive quantity of launch servers. The Fatman was the players self-remedy for the low pop servers. And about 3-4 months after PvPers consolidated together (using re-rolls) on The Fatman...... rapid attrition began on the "Salvation Server"... and was much discussed in the forum.... so let's not pretend everyone was conducting a persistent PvP Kumbaya.

 

Personally, I applauded the PvPers taking things into their own hands back in the spring of 2012. And was equally dismayed at how quickly they stopped cooperating and started destroying what was built up by players working together. Pretending it never happened is nonsense.

 

And yes.. I am fully aware that from the PvPer perspective, collectively you feel largely betrayed by Bioware in this largely PvE game. I get that. But that does not excuse the divisive and destructive behavior that is so common most of the time in the wider PvP community.

 

You guys need to stop taking any critical opinion as a personal attack upon your play style. It's not. You either enjoy PvP in SWTOR or you don't. My views about it have no bearing on your enjoyment (or lack thereof).

Edited June 28, 2014 by Andryah

[RakghoulsRTrolls]

PTS is not live... and you know it. People do all kinds of things together on PTS.. precisely to help flesh out testing for issues. This is a limited focus red-herring you are presenting.

 

Go back and reread my original comment. My point was that PvPers do try to cooperate collectively to overcome server population issues....but once they have huddled together.. they then collectively breakdown in cooperation and focus on what PvPers like to do ----> destroy other players. Some, not all, get carried away and destroy the adhoc cooperation in the process. Some get mad and leave and head back to their original server, etc. etc.

 

I used the life cycle of The Fatman as a reference example because of the stark clarity in how this played out back before Bioware could/would do anything to address low pops on the massive quantity of launch servers. The Fatman was the players self-remedy for the low pop servers. And about 3-4 months after PvPers consolidated together (using re-rolls) on The Fatman...... rapid attrition begin.... and was much discussed in the forum.... so let's not pretend everyone was conducting a persistent PvP Kumbaya.

 

Personally, I applauded the PvPers taking things into their own hands back in the spring of 2012. And was equally dismayed at how quickly they stopped cooperating and started destroying what was built up by players working together. Pretending it never happened is nonsense.

 

And yes.. I am fully aware that from the PvPer perspective, collectively you feel largely betrayed by Bioware in this largely PvE game. I get that. But that does not excuse the divisive and destructive behavior that is so common most of the time in the wider PvP community.

 

You guys need to stop taking any critical opinion as a personal attack upon your play style. It's not. You either enjoy PvP in SWTOR or you don't. My views about it have no bearing on your enjoyment (or lack thereof).

And that's just your opinion

[Gnoblesse]

PTS is not live... and you know it. People do all kinds of things together on PTS.. precisely to help flesh out testing for issues. This is a limited focus red-herring you are presenting.

 

Go back and reread my original comment. My point was that PvPers do try to cooperate collectively to overcome server population issues....but once they have huddled together.. they then collectively breakdown in cooperation and focus on what PvPers like to do ----> destroy other players. Some, not all, get carried away and destroy the adhoc cooperation in the process. Some get mad and leave and head back to their original server, etc. etc.

 

I used the life cycle of The Fatman as a reference example because of the stark clarity in how this played out back before Bioware could/would do anything to address low pops on the massive quantity of launch servers. The Fatman was the players self-remedy for the low pop servers. And about 3-4 months after PvPers consolidated together (using re-rolls) on The Fatman...... rapid attrition began on the "Salvation Server"... and was much discussed in the forum.... so let's not pretend everyone was conducting a persistent PvP Kumbaya.

 

Personally, I applauded the PvPers taking things into their own hands back in the spring of 2012. And was equally dismayed at how quickly they stopped cooperating and started destroying what was built up by players working together. Pretending it never happened is nonsense.

 

And yes.. I am fully aware that from the PvPer perspective, collectively you feel largely betrayed by Bioware in this largely PvE game. I get that. But that does not excuse the divisive and destructive behavior that is so common most of the time in the wider PvP community.

 

You guys need to stop taking any critical opinion as a personal attack upon your play style. It's not. You either enjoy PvP in SWTOR or you don't. My views about it have no bearing on your enjoyment (or lack thereof).

 

Sorry, I should have stated that as "that took place." But honestly? Given the context of the conversation, you knew what I meant, I'm pretty sure.

 

As for personal attacks on playstyles, I distinctly remember there being a post from you recently which started along the lines of "Everyone knows PvPers are.." which is no longer in your post history. Due to the forum rule about not discussing forum moderation, I'm not going to go into further detail, but I'm assuming the post is no longer there for a reason. (I'd also like to add, I'm not a fan of sweeping generalizations and attacks, period; even coming from the other direction - calling people carebears, "filthy casuals," and the like. So I'm not looking at this solely from the perspective of a PvPer who is feeling picked on.)

 

And other people's views - or complaints - shouldn't have any bearing on your enjoyment (or lack thereof) of the game (or the forums,) either.

[annabethchase]

The majority have no problem...

 

The majority of those logged into the game might not have a problem, but the problem is not enough people are logged into the game. This isn't Rift or something where a small player base is ok. This is Star Wars and one of the most expensive games ever developed. It comes with higher expectations for what is a healthy number of players.

[Reno_Tarshil]

ITT: People consider opinions to be facts and not opinions.

 

Lol...

Edited June 28, 2014 by Reno_Tarshil

[Andryah]

As for personal attacks on playstyles, I distinctly remember there being a post from you recently which started along the lines of "Everyone knows PvPers are.." which is no longer in your post history. Due to the forum rule about not discussing forum moderation, I'm not going to go into further detail, but I'm assuming the post is no longer there for a reason.

 

I have had no posts deleted, nor have I deleted any. You must be thinking of someone else.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Andryah

[Reno_Tarshil]

And let me guess... during the Fall it's school! During the winter months it's the holidays! During Spring it's Easter break!

 

Always an excuse.

 

In all the MMO's I've played has anyone every blamed the fall or school or christmas for sub losses.. It's only been Summer.

 

Dunno why you're being so hostile for no reason but shrug.

[Dawginole]

Players who complain about lack of content clearly don't watch their streams (especially yesterdays stream).

 

This is so asinine. Why is it my responsibility to watch an hour long stream every Friday to learn some snippet about the future of the game? Why isn't that information just posted for everyone to see?

[Gnoblesse]

ITT: People consider opinions to be facts and not opinions.

 

Lol...

 

 

Which opinions would you be referring to?

[annabethchase]

In all the MMO's I've played has anyone every blamed the fall or school or christmas for sub losses.. It's only been Summer.

 

Dunno why you're being so hostile for no reason but shrug.

 

Well, in this MMO, yes people have blamed school, fall, football, Christmas, thanksgiving, finals and summer for sub losses. I've read all of those many times.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Which opinions would you be referring to?

 

Everyone's opinion.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Well, in this MMO, yes people have blamed school, fall, football, Christmas, thanksgiving, finals and summer for sub losses. I've read all of those many times.

 

Only seen it for summer.

[Gnoblesse]

Everyone's opinion.

 

Could you point out one specifically? (Not asking you to single out one forum poster, but possibly a specific opinion that's being presented as fact? Because otherwise, the statement is super vague.)

[Reno_Tarshil]

Could you point out one specifically? (Not asking you to single out one forum poster, but possibly a specific opinion that's being presented as fact? Because otherwise, the statement is super vague.)

 

Opinion 1: The game is fine and doing well.

 

Opinion 2: The game is dying and servers are getting smaller.

 

Both are opinions but neither is fact with proof. That being said their opinions are not wrong, they are right because the posters who say them are right because they believe it to be so. But without solid proof it's just opinions and not facts.

[Pistols]

Hey ya Pistols... it can't be too bad... since you are still paying to play the game.

 

I don't perceive you to be a masochist... so one could conclude if it was a grievous as you paint it out to be... then you would have moved on to an MMO that honors your every wish and command.

 

I hit the unsub button a few weeks ago, as I came back from a few months hiatus, tried giving it another shot but nothing is on the horizon that is remotely keeping me interested and the future is written in my sig (thanks Eric!). I think one of my biggest frustrations comes from the team not fixing a gigantic exploit in PvP, PT/Vang "guard mechanic" (won't go any further), that has been on live for many months. It can make/break teams in Rankeds, but they don't seem to care about fixing it, thus ruining the ranked scene even further.

 

Solo ranked has been a huge flop, while somewhat popular due to the ease of it, the system itself is beyond faulty/broken. I actually enjoy arenas, despite playing my favorite inferior class, but the rankeds are really no better than what it was when 8's were around. I get PvP isn't the "be all/end all" content driving this game, heck I know far from it, but this is my last MMO that I plan to dive into so I've been holding out hope (as futile as that has been). There just isn't enough interest, drive, man power nor quality direction behind the scenes towards the gameplay I enjoy. I know other gameplay aspects have taken some hits too, so I know it's not just something I wish to see improved on, and it sucks to see for anyones gameplay choice.

 

Heck, as much as I giggle at RP types, I think they got the worst of it since the game opened up lol. I got enough CC coins to make the F2P option work, so there's that I guess. PS: There is NO MMO out there that can honor everyones PvP wish sadly, lol....I think the MMO industry over the last 10 years has lost the sight of PvP gameplay, big companies are driven towards money cash grabs, as opposed to making an MMO that has staying power. I used to not want to believe that, but coming around now. Maybe SOE's sandbox will change it up, but I cringe at any product touched by SOE lol. Wow, that was long winded...back to grinding my new Sif Lawd Juggernaut!!!

Edited June 29, 2014 by Pistols

[Gnoblesse]

Opinion 1: The game is fine and doing well.

 

Opinion 2: The game is dying and servers are getting smaller.

 

Both are opinions but neither is fact with proof. That being said their opinions are not wrong, they are right because the posters who say them are right because they believe it to be so. But without solid proof it's just opinions and not facts.

 

That's fair enough. Time will tell, really.

 

Edit: The one recent exception I'll make to that is the posts from people noting that they're having issues with guild attrition. (And folks who say their guild is fine.) I do consider those things are likely statements of fact and not opinions.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Gnoblesse

[Nickious]

TBH, I'm taking a bit of a break from this game right now. I've played for more than a year straight, I have games I haven't touched for more than a few days that I purchased a year ago and I want to catch up. I'm a bit burned out on SWTOR. I think that feeling will pass, but aside from the gree and rakghoul events, I don't have much i care to do at the moment. Edited June 29, 2014 by Nickious

[annabethchase]

Opinion 1: The game is fine and doing well.

 

Opinion 2: The game is dying and servers are getting smaller.

 

Both are opinions but neither is fact with proof. That being said their opinions are not wrong, they are right because the posters who say them are right because they believe it to be so. But without solid proof it's just opinions and not facts.

 

No, most of us count server activity. Not an opinion to look at raw numbers.

[Reno_Tarshil]

No, most of us count server activity. Not an opinion to look at raw numbers.

 

Sorry but server activity is constantly changing due to different times of the day. Some time periods they feel low some time periods feel populated. It can all be random. And that's just from my observation from the past month.

 

But it's just my opinion like yours just is yours as well.

[DarthTHC]

Opinion 1: The game is fine and doing well.

 

Opinion 2: The game is dying and servers are getting smaller.

 

Both are opinions but neither is fact with proof. That being said their opinions are not wrong, they are right because the posters who say them are right because they believe it to be so. But without solid proof it's just opinions and not facts.

 

Actually, those 2 things are potential facts, not opinions. Opinions would be, "I like this game," or "I don't like this game."

 

Facts, those aren't altered by opinions and when you have two potential facts that oppose each other directly, only one can be true.

 

What you're saying is sort of like suggesting that these two things are opinions:

 

3 x 5 = 15

 

3 x 7 = 15

 

The game is growing or shrinking or staying about the same. One of those three statements is true, the other two aren't. Only BioWare knows which is true.

 

We may each have our own belief, or opinion, which is true, but holding that opinion doesn't make it true in reality or for whomever owns the opinion.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Actually, those 2 things are potential facts, not opinions. Opinions would be, "I like this game," or "I don't like this game."

 

Facts, those aren't altered by opinions and when you have two potential facts that oppose each other directly, only one can be true.

 

What you're saying is sort of like suggesting that these two things are opinions:

 

3 x 5 = 15

 

3 x 7 = 15

 

The game is growing or shrinking or staying about the same. One of those three statements is true, the other two aren't. Only BioWare knows which is true.

 

We may each have our own belief, or opinion, which is true, but holding that opinion doesn't make it true in reality or for whomever owns the opinion.

 

Actually it does make it true for whoever is stating their opinion because they believe it to be, whether or not it's correct in reality or not is a different story. That's why Opinions are correct/true/right but not facts.