Beansoup Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Reddit. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We have a clip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slafko Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Kind of a circle jerk going on here... The majority of players never achieve what that redditor is talking of - 5 fully-gear alts - because most people don't have the incredible amount of spare time that requires. The "hardcore" raiders (a laughable term compared to what it used to mean in old games: permadeath) need to understand that they are the minority, always will be the minority, and need to recognize the pattern here: in EVERY MMO I'VE EVER PLAYED the hardcore community never had enough content. EVER. Guilds were always breaking up for lack of things to do, blah blah blah. Get it through your heads, just because you ran the race ten times faster than Joe Public, that doesn't mean it makes sense for a game studio to try to crank out content at a rate sufficient to please you. You may now return to your regularly scheduled complaint session. I'm not a hardcore raider but I do have five characters geared in 180 armors with bonuses. I have never considered "nightmare" mode to be new content. I haven't even beaten TFB NiM yet because I can't stand to see that operation anymore. Current situation is this: There is no new content, just new recolored tier of gear. Old content is laughably easy to faceroll with a lvl 50 character, let alone with a full geared 55 one. This means that old content does not pose a challenge and the "new" is boring because it takes place in the same instances that I've farmed to death. Even leveling alts on impside is way too easy with all the buffs and presence boosts. This is why I have decided to level all three imps classes I'm missing during the 2XP week and do their stories later. In an attempt to make the game challenging again, I've made a new character on a completely different server. It helped, but not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) It's obvious TOR isn't really an endgame progression MMO. If it were you couldn't get decked in 180s that enable you to jump into pretty much any content via comms they hand out like candy. What they should do is the next time they release a DF/DP is set it up so that people have no business even trying DP till they've geared up in DF over a couple of months. Story mode obviously excluded. Heck even hardmode could be kept the way it is, but nightmare needs to switch to a wow-esque model of brutal gatings if you want to spread it out into a metagame over a prolonged period of time Problem is they're trying to make the operations too much fun. Too mechanic based. That's great for us mortals but the top tier apparently find it pee easy. For them NiM Bestia should have been a so insanely tight dps/heal check teams wouldn't even look at it for a first couple of months it till they were decked out from farming DF NiM with NiM Bronthes simmilarly requiring groups to pretty much all have the first few bosses on farm for a month before passing. Yes that means additional tiers of gear and stat inflation but hashtagYOLO we can always cut away a few zeroes in 5 years. It's not just that there isn't enough content, the content they have could last them a lot longer. They just need to find a trully sadistic streak for NIM so these pros get their pain fix. That people are already "done" with the latest NiM is what's the problem. It's too accessible, make it a living nightmare so the rest of us can get some peace and quiet around here. Oh what am I saying, it'll be the "it's too hard" brigade in an uproar lol. Edited June 26, 2014 by aeterno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 What if they release new operation? No matter what it will be on farm within two weeks and then you would just complain again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slafko Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) It's the vertical progression nature of the game that's killing the game. Had it been a horizontal progression game, we would find old content challenging even at max level. Edited June 26, 2014 by slafko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghoul_drool Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Re: Housing I am looking forward to the travel capabilities and Legacy vault that come with player housing. Not sure if I will care much about the rest of it, but then again, when I first started playing SWTOR I thought I'd never roll an Imperial toon, or spend 400K creds on a dye pack. How wrong I was ... I'm VERY excited for housing. I can't wait. But: it has to be done right, and although I've heard some tidbits that have alleviated most of my concerns, the fact that very little people seem to be excited about it is because they don't know any of the features yet. Placing furniture in a box is not exciting. Being able to customize the hell out of a very unique and diverse layout IS. To me. At least. But Bioware dissapoints again. This weekend is the end of June, and already Hillary has come out and said we should be looking forward to more info in the coming weeks. So not this week. The coming weeks. Well, duh. Because if info is not released in the coming weeks, we're looking at the launch of early access, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) It's the vertical progression nature of the game that's killing the game. Had it been a horizontal progression game, we would find old content challenging even at max level. You can make old content challenging. For example: try to complete NiM OP naked (only mainhand weapon and offhand allowed) or wearing only lvl 10-15 greens. Edited June 26, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flixx Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Actions speak louder then words. Promises broken. Remember the promised "major PvP patch" that was coming for all us PvPers that turned into a PvE patch with a sprinkle of PvP? Remember 2.8 was going to be the "Biggest patch to date"?, only to end-up with major delays and game breaking bugs. I could care less about what they 'Say" is coming to SWTOR. I'll resub when everything they advertise is actually in game and worth coming back for. Generic PvE guild quests and decorations are not going to bring me back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizurappa Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Actions speak louder then words. Promises broken. Remember the promised "major PvP patch" that was coming for all us PvPers that turned into a PvE patch with a sprinkle of PvP? Remember 2.8 was going to be the "Biggest patch to date"?, only to end-up with major delays and game breaking bugs. I could care less about what they 'Say" is coming to SWTOR. I'll resub when everything they advertise is actually in game and worth coming back for. Generic PvE guild quests and decorations are not going to bring me back. They also hailed 2.4 as "The PvP Patch" and instead of improving and overhauling the ranked 8s system they completely removed them for the 4s system. Virtually all PvP guilds when inactive or unsubbed/quit entirely due to this announcement, especially the top-tier teams who were running 8s consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slafko Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 You can make old content challenging. For example: try to complete NiM OP naked (only mainhand weapon and offhand allowed) or wearing only lvl 10-15 greens. Talk about missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Talk about missing the point. Problem: Content isn't challenging or entertaining. Solution: Find a way to make it challenging or entertaining. If this isn't at least entertaining then why are they laughing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ToFMsDj6TY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Stuff like that just showcases how people are sc****** the bottom of the barrel. Yea sure, FC Barcelona could have a challenging time in my local regional league if they fielded a team of players with their ankles tied together, but the question is, is that really what they'd rather be doing than playing the Champions League. Edited June 26, 2014 by aeterno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slafko Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Problem: Content isn't challenging or entertaining. Solution: Find a way to make it challenging or entertaining. Your proposed "solution" is nothing more than a desperate workaround that does not take into account one of the cornerstones of all RPG's. That's why you've missed the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasmaJohn Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 What if they release new operation? No matter what it will be on farm within two weeks and then you would just complain again. Maybe for the handful of NiM teams but the rest of us mere mortals would need several weeks to get through it then another several weeks to get everybody geared once on farm. Some of us would even prefer to cut our teeth on SM then step up to HM. Gosh! it might even take us 24-32 weeks to get through it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Your proposed "solution" is nothing more than a desperate workaround that does not take into account one of the cornerstones of all RPG's. That's why you've missed the point. Ok, I understand. Using imagination isn't allowed. Just makes me wonder how kids didn't get bored without TV and Pokemon 60+ years ago. Maybe for the handful of NiM teams but the rest of us mere mortals would need several weeks to get through it then another several weeks to get everybody geared once on farm. Some of us would even prefer to cut our teeth on SM then step up to HM. Gosh! it might even take us 24-32 weeks to get through it all. Actually... We mortals can't complete them at all because of requirements set by experienced players. Edited June 26, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepthen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 The biggest issue with the lack of a new operation since last October is that the longer BioWare takes to release a new operation (read: not NiM), the longer they give the playerbase a chance to catch up. The 1% will always mow down the content within a week/few weeks (or 3 hours if you're Zorz...) but as long as a new operation is out, say every 6 months, that will alleviate a lot of the complaining on the boards. Asking people to farm a set of tier for a year is far worse than asking those same people to farm it for 6 months. BioWare should aim to keep ahead of the majority of raiders. They won't release fast enough to force the 1% guys to play catch up but if they take too long, then more and more raiders will start appearing on the boards asking for content. Also, bear in mind that not all raiders want to even bother, nor have the skill to enter, NiM content. So, those groups that only run HM and may still be stuck on HM DF/DP will eventually finish those places too and be ready for more operations that they want to run (read: not NiM). Case in point, my guild. We currently have 9 operation teams of varying skill and progression goals. When DF/DP was released last October, only one of our teams even tried NiM TFB and it was for about two weeks. This time around, when NiM DF came out, we had three teams that were ready to jump in and play peek-a-boo with Neffy. Now, we haven't finished NiM DF (summer is killing attendance) but I have no doubt that by the time 3.0 is out, we'll have some NiM teams that are caught up. As much as I would like being min/maxed in 186s when 3.0 comes out, I also don't mind always playing the catch-up game. I'm looking forward to Strongholds, partly because I'm the GM so I get all the toys that go with guild ships, but also because I think it'll drive the population to run older content for fun and housing trophies. When people group up and run older content together with actual goals, it's fun even if the operations themselves are complete facerolls when you're decked out in 180s/186s. I'm eagerly awaiting the details of 2.9... and 3.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 This time around, when NiM DF came out, we had three teams that were ready to jump in and play peek-a-boo with Neffy. Please clarify: do you mean six people by "three teams"? Because until they patched the exploit, it only took a "team" of two people (one Sorc/Merc/Sage/Commando + one Op/'Sin/Scoundrel/Shadow, for example) to take down NiM Nephra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepthen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Please clarify: do you mean six people by "three teams"? Because until they patched the exploit, it only took a "team" of two people (one Sorc/Merc/Sage/Commando + one Op/'Sin/Scoundrel/Shadow, for example) to take down NiM Nephra. Wow that's a trollish thing to assume. Is it so hard to believe that a predominantly casual guild can kill NiM content? ORD doesn't exploit encounters. Three of our teams killed her on the first day she was released. Two other teams killed her the following week. All of these teams were 8 man operations and didn't use the exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Wow that's a trollish thing to assume. Is it so hard to believe that a predominantly casual guild can kill NiM content? ORD doesn't exploit encounters. Three of our teams killed her on the first day she was released. Two other teams killed her the following week. All of these teams were 8 man operations and didn't use the exploit. Just looking for clarification. Your "peek-a-boo with Nephy" comment seemed to possibly reference the exploit. No need to be so defensive, no one accused you of anything. Congrats on taking her down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Everything that's been said + other issues like the game engine and the reputation of being a failure even tho the game has been profitable enough for EA. I did all class stories, most of ops fights...a couple of secret bosses will always remain secret for me but that's fine and there's this feeling of a depleted resource about this game. Personally I'd much rather move on to another BW MMO based on experience and lessons learnt from swtor. Really sometimes don't understand how come such universes as Dragon Age or Mass Effect still haven't got an mmo expansion announced. At least that'll be content and stories we haven't seen yet at all. I have to agree with this. I gave up on this game a long time ago of it being something more than just a single player game trying to be an MMO. I stick around because I have no other games to play as of now. I would love for Bioware to relaunch Neverwinter Nights as an MMO with all the lessons learned from this game implemented there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 You can make old content challenging. For example: try to complete NiM OP naked (only mainhand weapon and offhand allowed) or wearing only lvl 10-15 greens. That is asinine to even suggest because it is mathematically impossible to do that content naked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vis-Tecum Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I've come to realize reading this thread that is less about the lack of raids released and more about people burnt out on raiding, every complaint is the same "I don't want to run DF / DP anymore" well that is the reality of raiding you farm content till there's new content, and NIM ops with new tiers of gear ARE new content. most of the complaints seem to come from people who wont be finishing or even attempting NIM so they are not even going for the gear, and that's the core reason behind "raiding". hard modes and story modes can be finished in weeks if not days for a lot of guilds then it will be back to the same instance over and over just like you are now, just like every raider ever has done in the past. honestly don't see why farming DF / DP now is any different then back in February or will be any different in October for people who refuse to run anything but DF / DP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 That is asinine to even suggest because it is mathematically impossible to do that content naked. With the Force you can do anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestrodomus Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I made that post on reddit, and it's not a 1%'er blowing through content problem. I'm sick of reading that from fanboys. Our guild was not hard core. We did not spend more than 3-4 hours a week raiding progression, and we never blew through HM in a month. We were just a regular group of dedicated gamers who ran a even-keeled guild and enjoyed the game. Everything about the alts, the progression, the valor, and the credits may seem like insane person online 24-7 but it's not even close to that. You can get a lot done if you play a few nights a week for 3 years. With no new raids, no new daily zones, and no new content except a couple ****** tactical flash-points you will kill the game for long time subscribers who are mostly casual in their end game approach. The truth is that Bioware can't monetize raids and they take too much time to develop vs. reskinning armor that's been in the game for 3 years and then selling it for 5 dollars. I understand that they'll do a lot with the Cartel Market but they're disrespecting the subscribers who have been there for them since launch with these inexcusable PvE content cycles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 That is asinine to even suggest because it is mathematically impossible to do that content naked. There's a video of semi-naked Karagga's Palace on Youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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