Munitions Capacity Extender on a Bomber?

[thespis]

Any idea why someone would want Munition Capacity Extender on a bomber when we have an unlimited payload? It seems to serve no purpose at all so why would it even be an option?

[Altheran]

Any idea why someone would want Munition Capacity Extender on a bomber when we have an unlimited payload? It seems to serve no purpose at all so why would it even be an option?

 

I assume you meant "Bombers with mines as secondary weapon", because when equipping your bomber with missiles you do have limited ammunitions... even though, Bombers seem to get a baseline extra 33%.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Altheran

[Verain]

Don't select it.

 

Everyone with a secondary weapon gets the same options, even though they make NO sense.

 

 

But, every bomber can at least choose an option that doesn't have infinity. You can always pick proton torpedo, for instance- every bomber has that, and it's finite.

 

 

The Type 1 Gunship (Quarrel/Mangler) has this option as well. And it has nothing but railguns as secondaries. Chew on that!

[TrinityLyre]

Don't select it.

Unless you're flying a Mangler/Quarrel/VX-9. Then select it to play GSF on hard mode. Nightmare mode unavailable, because you have railguns.

[LilSaihah]

Any idea why someone would want Munition Capacity Extender on anything ever

 

There we go.

[Nemarus]

There we go.

 

My Cluster/Interdiction Jurgoran uses them. But those are really the only two missiles for which capacity is a limiting concern (and Clusters only fall into that group with the double-volley upgrade).

[Verain]

My Cluster/Interdiction Jurgoran uses them.

 

I see a different component to change out before even talking to secondaries....

 

 

I have used this mag on starguard with clusters, and pike with clusters and protons. Of the two, I actually think it has solid merit on a pike.

 

 

Though it is less popular, all the magazines are actually best at something. If you fire straight from full, you'll last longer with the max capacity one.

 

 

Still, regen is obviously mostly better!

[Luneward]

I see a different component to change out before even talking to secondaries....

 

Yes, yes. Because lord forbid someone actually use a component set they think is fun while still being effective instead of being completely 'optimal'.

[Verain]

Yes, yes. Because lord forbid someone actually use a component set they think is fun while still being effective instead of being completely 'optimal'.

 

People are free to screw around with crazy builds, that's fine. But if you were talking about defending a component, it being optimal on a crazy build doesn't say much.

[Nemarus]

People are free to screw around with crazy builds, that's fine. But if you were talking about defending a component, it being optimal on a crazy build doesn't say much.

 

You truly lack the imagination to see how a well-shielded fighter with double-turning radius and BLC's, able to spam two short range missiles--one of which puts on a crippling slow--isn't an effective build for short-range dogfighting and satellite control?

[Verain]

You truly lack the imagination to see how a well-shielded fighter with double-turning radius and BLC's, able to spam two short range missiles--one of which puts on a crippling slow--isn't an effective build for short-range dogfighting and satellite control?

 

Would it be improved by swapping one of the short range missiles for a railgun?

 

 

I'm pretty sure it would. You gain like, +10k threatened range at the cost of the second short range missile.

[Nemarus]

Would it be improved by swapping one of the short range missiles for a railgun?

 

 

I'm pretty sure it would. You gain like, +10k threatened range at the cost of the second short range missile.

 

You created a thread saying the Pike and Starguard need more components. If the devs gave the Pike access to Interdiction Missile, BLC's and Power Dive, would you call it a crazy build? I don't think so. Those would all be great additions to the Pike, and I'm sure quite a few people would run Clusters combined with Interdiction Missiles--it'd be a great anti-Scout build.

 

Unfortunately, the Pike doesn't have those options, so the closest you can get is a Condor. It has slightly less shielding than a Strike, slightly less hull, slightly less Evasion, and slightly less mobility. But in return it gets a combination of short range weaponry that no other ship has. Its sustained DPS sub-5000m is very effective, as you are able to chain Cluster->Interdiction->Cluster with no reload cooldown, all while spamming BLC's. And because you can use Cluster to draw out targets' missile breaks, the vast majority of your Interdiction Missiles actually hit--which largely mitigates the Interdiction Missile's main drawback of having a small capacity and longish reload. The effectiveness of missiles stacks with each additional missile, since people only have so many missile breaks.

 

Is that tradeoff worth sacrificing a railgun? I don't think there's a clear static answer. It depends on preference and what you're going to use the ship for. I usually dislike leaving satellite defense/capture to others, and I usually get focused too much to stand still in one place for long. Of the three T3 Gunship builds I'm trying (railgun/IM, EMP/IM, CM/IM), I've had the most obvious success with CM/IM. Much more success than I've had with the EMP/IM T3 or the double torpedo T2 (which I agree are both "crazy" builds).

 

If your argument is that a railgun is always better than anything else all the time forever no matter what, then there's really no justification for ever flying a Strike, Scout or Bomber, is there?

Edited June 25, 2014 by Nemarus

[Verain]

You created a thread saying the Pike and Starguard need more components. If the devs gave the Pike access to Interdiction Missile, BLC's and Power Dive, would you call it a crazy build? I don't think so.

 

No, that's a great build.

 

Those would all be great additions to the Pike, and I'm sure quite a few people would run Clusters combined with Interdiction Missiles--it'd be a great anti-Scout build.

 

Again agree. Would be solid on the Pike.

 

Unfortunately, the Pike doesn't have those options, so the closest you can get is a Condor. It has slightly less shielding than a Strike, slightly less hull, slightly less Evasion, and slightly less mobility.

 

It also has less turning and is slower, in addition to the 5% less evasion, weaker shields, and weaker hull.

 

 

More importantly, it has a railgun, so it should use that, because that's better.

 

Is that tradeoff worth sacrificing a railgun?

 

No.

 

I don't think there's a clear static answer.

 

The two missiles are both similar in range and even somewhat similar in role. The railgun means that someone boosting away from you gets a slug round, and you can threaten an area, forcing cooldowns, side approaches, etc. Without the slug, you lose all of this for.... a second missile with similar damage, similar lockon, identical range.

 

It depends on preference and what you're going to use the ship for.

 

The non-railgun variant is simply worse than the one with the railgun. There are situations where it is nice to have two missiles, and the railgun won't help- but these are rare, and can often be avoided with a railgun.

 

If your argument is that a railgun is always better than anything else all the time forever no matter what

 

Yes

 

, then there's really no justification for ever flying a Strike, Scout or Bomber, is there?

 

No.

 

 

If the Pike had a railgun, then every good Pike build would use that railgun. The gunship frame turns slower, boosts slower, has less shields, has less hull, than a strike. It's much weaker than a bomber, and it's much slower than a scout. In exchange, it gets railguns.

 

A railgun as an option means, you take a railgun or you are just screwing around.

 

 

It doesn't mean "don't even pick a strike, bomber, or scout". These ships have plenty of reasons to pick them over a gunship, so don't pretend that this is my argument. We are talking about "you can have a railgun, or instead, you can not have a railgun". Straight one for one component swap.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Verain