Non-heal Companions

[DomiSotto]

Since you aren't healing them in combat, all that matters is they have enough HP to last through most of the fight, and usually they have plenty enough to survive. Oh and also they contribute *some* damage, unlike healers.

 

All of which was true for me till I reached Corellia. Come Corellia, the tank companion died. And died. And died. And died again. Pretty pricey.

[Khevar]

All of which was true for me till I reached Corellia. Come Corellia, the tank companion died. And died. And died. And died again. Pretty pricey.

I had that problem too, until I went back to the Commendations vendor and used mods and enhancements with +Defense, +Shield and +Absorb. I had been using just normal dps type gear on my tank. Once I fixed his gear, his survival went wayyyyy up.

[well]

I don't think it's fair to Guild Wars to mention SWTOR's companion system and GW's hero system in the same sentence.

 

Your not kidding. It was like comparing a bb gun to main gun on a tank. They had the best system I have seen. They abandoned it for Gw2 so I abandoned them. Some other reasons but that was a major issue with me.

[DomiSotto]

I had that problem too, until I went back to the Commendations vendor and used mods and enhancements with +Defense, +Shield and +Absorb. I had been using just normal dps type gear on my tank. Once I fixed his gear, his survival went wayyyyy up.

 

That's what I was using, until I started switching some to power/surge & splitting damages between the toon and the comp. Still not sure which one is best.

[crubel]

So, instead of wanting them all to be healers, why not think of ways to improve the viability of Tank and DPS companions?

 

It's not just about healers. For example, if I am playing my assassin in Deception spec, I must have a tank companion to taunt so I can get behind the target for one of my dps abilities. This limits me to the two story companion tanks or treek. The other companions I cannot use unless I want to lower my dps because I could no longer use my one of abilities in my rotation. That means that the majority of my companions I can't use due to a mechanic that does not let me change their roles. I should be able to change Ashara into a tank spec for example, and run around with her until I get bored, because using the same tank companions over the last couple years has gotten old.

 

Bottom line, we need to be able to change any companion into any one of the roles. The only companion I don't really care about being locked into a role or not is the ship droid, but I would make him tank if I could just to watch him take a beating.

[RandomXChance]

It's not just about healers. For example, if I am playing my assassin in Deception spec, I must have a tank companion to taunt so I can get behind the target for one of my dps abilities. This limits me to the two story companion tanks or treek. The other companions I cannot use unless I want to lower my dps because I could no longer use my one of abilities in my rotation. That means that the majority of my companions I can't use due to a mechanic that does not let me change their roles. I should be able to change Ashara into a tank spec for example, and run around with her until I get bored, because using the same tank companions over the last couple years has gotten old.

 

Bottom line, we need to be able to change any companion into any one of the roles. The only companion I don't really care about being locked into a role or not is the ship droid, but I would make him tank if I could just to watch him take a beating.

 

Um, no for two reasons.

One is that you are not limited to deception spec and could easily change to madness and not have that issue at all. It is your choice.

 

Second is that many companions would not logically fit into certain roles at all. This would be immersion and roleplaying breaking. The examples I have given previously of Skadge as a healer (suck it up wimp, I don't have time to heal you!) or Gus Tuno as a tank are completely illogical.

 

Learn to effectively use the different roles they have, not force them all into the one role you like.

[DomiSotto]

Not having multiple roles seem to contradict the game design where Bio seem to want to make playing with different companions a part of the experience. They are important to the story, they have achievements that correspond to having them in the party for prolonged times.

 

So it makes sense that they should be slightly more flexible to compliment a player's style.

 

Or fulfill their role well enough to actually be playable. Would be nice if they improved a bit more as the game progresses.

 

I am always against someone other than the player deciding what's fit for his or her interpretation of a character. Heck, if I feel that Guss is a tank, and can headcanon it, why not. Maybe he had a prophetic dream about Kit Fisto.

Edited June 25, 2014 by DomiSotto

[crubel]

Um, no for two reasons.

One is that you are not limited to deception spec and could easily change to madness and not have that issue at all. It is your choice.

 

Second is that many companions would not logically fit into certain roles at all. This would be immersion and roleplaying breaking. The examples I have given previously of Skadge as a healer (suck it up wimp, I don't have time to heal you!) or Gus Tuno as a tank are completely illogical.

 

Learn to effectively use the different roles they have, not force them all into the one role you like.

 

You are right, I could pick a different spec, or even a different advanced class, or heck, even another class! I also understand that by choosing a certain playstyle/spec/AC/class, that a certain companion role will more than likely compliment that spec. I simply disagree that the companion role should be tied to the companion skin. I think that my choice of spec should not be coupled to a choice of companion. I believe they should be two separate things.

 

I get your point that certain companions might not fit certain roles. It is definitely a valid point. My best counter is, does it make sense for a tank in the game to be wearing nothing but underwear, because you can do that now. I would argue it doesn't make sense, but that player customization trumps what makes sense in that situation. This is a similar argument that the devs had in beta when they did not want Sith Inquisitors to have the Sith Pureblood race option because it did not make sense to the story, yet player desire for customization and options won in the end. Why can't the desire for player customization win here as well?

 

 

To your last comment, I'm not sure if I'm taking it right. It seems like an uncalled for personal attack, which is how I will respond to it. If I'm wrong, ignore the following.

 

I know how to use the companions effectively for the roles they have. Based on any examples I have posted to argue for something, you have no way to determine if I do or do not use the roles effectively. When I'm on my scoundrel healer, I don't use Guss (healer role companion). It would not make sense for ME, due to his role. Do I want to use him because I think he is funny to listen to? Yes, I would love to have him out, but I don't ever use him in combat, I use a different companion. I'm not sure if I have ever used Guss in combat actually, he has just been a waste on my ship, which I think is not the best mechanic. If I could change companion roles, I would cycle through all of my companions and keep them all geared up for variety sake. It would be a time sink for me and give me something else to do. You have the right to your own opinions just as much as I do, but don't assume that just because I am promoting a change to a game mechanic that I personally don't like, doesn't mean that I don't know how to use the one that already exists.

 

(Edit: forgot a word and a sentence didn't make sense)

Edited June 25, 2014 by crubel

[Aletheos]

There's no issue with our companions, they work fine just as they are. Next.

[DomiSotto]

This is a similar argument that the devs had in beta when they did not want Sith Inquisitors to have the Sith Pureblood race option because it did not make sense to the story, yet player desire for customization and options won in the end. Why can't the desire for player customization win here as well?

 

The test is always: Will it negatively impact another player? The answer in case of companion customization is no. No other player would be impacted if my Guss was a Nautolan wielding a blue light-sabre in his underwear and exclaiming "Useless Lightsabre!" all the while. My choices do not make every other player's Guss to be just like that. On the opposite, it improves other player's experience because s/he doesn't see an exact replica of his or her own duo.

 

I for one am very happy that Racial unlocks and character customization exists for the player. It's great the player build is flexible. Expanding the same courtesy to the companions would be wonderful. The things like that would make my game much more enjoyable for me.

 

If the game is designed to play in the +1 style, the +1 better have some wiggle room, and right now there is virtually none. And that's, Aletheos, is the key problem with our companions.

Edited June 25, 2014 by DomiSotto

[RandomXChance]

 

 

To your last comment, I'm not sure if I'm taking it right. It seems like an uncalled for personal attack, which is how I will respond to it. If I'm wrong, ignore the following.

 

 

It was not meant at all as an attack. I meant it in a generic sense. The fact that you like to use tank comps makes me believe you do know how. People who do not know how want every comp to be a healer.

 

The point of the thread was what ideas to make tank and DPS comps more desirable to the average player since so many people default to heal comps since they take almost no effort to play with.

[crubel]

It was not meant at all as an attack. I meant it in a generic sense. The fact that you like to use tank comps makes me believe you do know how. People who do not know how want every comp to be a healer.

 

The point of the thread was what ideas to make tank and DPS comps more desirable to the average player since so many people default to heal comps since they take almost no effort to play with.

 

Ah, I see where you were coming from now. Great point too, almost everyone unnecessarily uses healers. Any companion if geared properly can fill any role. Depending on the scenario, some abilities can/should be turned off or even manually activated, but most people never bother to do that.

[DomiSotto]

This is not a turn-based game! There is barely time to get your own character fighting, fighting for two in real time while watching the whole 360 field around your player AND watching for what multiple enemies are doing borders on fantasy. The AI should do the job. The companions' abilities just don't keep the pace with the game's difficulty. Otherwise, HK and Treek won't be a holy grail and the advice 'switch to the Healer' wouldn't be a panacea for every ill.

 

Why are HK and Treek better than the other companions? It makes no sense whatsoever.

Edited June 25, 2014 by DomiSotto

[RandomXChance]

This is not a turn-based game! There is barely time to get your own character fighting, fighting for two in real time while watching the whole 360 field around your player AND watching for what multiple enemies are doing borders on fantasy. The AI should do the job. The companions' abilities just don't keep the pace with the game's difficulty. Otherwise, HK and Treek won't be a holy grail and the advice 'switch to the Healer' wouldn't be a panacea for every ill.

 

Why are HK and Treek better than the other companions? It makes no sense whatsoever.

 

I am not sure if your last line is sarcastic or not, but will run with genuine.

 

They are both noticeably superior (contrary to the other thread about HK being disappointing) because they were added well after launch. By that time the deficiencies in the original companions were recognized and mostly fixed. HK puts out real DPS against end game opponents and being heal/tank combo makes Treek very handy. I guess heal/tank combo was an idea Bioware had to make tank companions more desireable.

 

Of course, some will claim that they are superior because you buy them with CC and making the original comps lame in comparison forces you to spend Cartel Coins.

[DomiSotto]

Of course, some will claim that they are superior because you buy them with CC and making the original comps lame in comparison forces you to spend Cartel Coins

 

That's what was trying to convey rather lamely - that companions could have superior abilities, as demo'd by Treek and HK. So, ironically, you have to suffer if you like a companion the developers put heart and soul into. Why can't Zenith do the same damage as HK does, or Riggs can't have a heal stance like Treek? If I have to pay for it, sure, I will pay for it. I can after all pay for a repair droid to improve my crew skills. Can't I buy Companion Training to make my Beloved Companion as effective as an Ewok?

Edited June 25, 2014 by DomiSotto

[Khevar]

Why are HK and Treek better than the other companions? It makes no sense whatsoever.

While I also like HK-51 because of the combat barks and because he reminds me of KOTOR, there is also a practical reason why he is better: He does measurably more single-target damage per second than any other dps companion in similar gear.

 

As for Treek, I've been told that she is better at healing than the other heal companions (but I haven't tested this myself). Personally the Ewok-speech grates on my nerves, so I prefer to use other companions for both healer and tank roles.

[RandomXChance]

That's what was trying to convey rather lamely - that companions could have superior abilities, as demo'd by Treek and HK. So, ironically, you have to suffer if you like a companion the developers put heart and soul into. Why can't Zenith do the same damage as HK does, or Riggs can't have a heal stance like Treek? If I have to pay for it, sure, I will pay for it. I can after all pay for a repair droid to improve my crew skills. Can't I buy Companion Training to make my Beloved Companion as effective as an Ewok?

 

I honestly think it was a mix of easier/more profitable to make new companions that were fixed rather than go back and rework the original companions.

 

Simpler + more profit = win.

 

They would have to go back and re-evaluate the stats and abilities of all the companions and re-balance them all. That is why I was focusing on suggestions that would give a broad boost to all companions rather than detailed rework.

[DataBeaver]

While I also like HK-51 because of the combat barks and because he reminds me of KOTOR, there is also a practical reason why he is better: He does measurably more single-target damage per second than any other dps companion in similar gear.

HK-51 lacks any AoE abilities and has no stances. Other companions generally have two or three AoE abilities you have to disable if you don't want them breaking CCs, so after those, the two stances and the two general commands there's five or six useful abilities left. And in many cases (maybe even all cases?) one of those is a buff, leaving as few as four attacks. By contrast, the only ability you want to leave disabled on HK-51 is assassinate, which is better used at the player's discretion. I don't remember if he has a buff, but even if he does, it leaves eight useful abilities in his arsenal. That's double the amount available to other companions. No wonder he's so efficient, regardless of what he claims about his efficiency percentage.

[Cuiwe]

That's what was trying to convey rather lamely - that companions could have superior abilities, as demo'd by Treek and HK. So, ironically, you have to suffer if you like a companion the developers put heart and soul into. Why can't Zenith do the same damage as HK does, or Riggs can't have a heal stance like Treek? If I have to pay for it, sure, I will pay for it. I can after all pay for a repair droid to improve my crew skills. Can't I buy Companion Training to make my Beloved Companion as effective as an Ewok?

 

Not to mention that even having an ewok around is a lore break. It's like saying that you're from Bespin-you can't be from Bespin! There's no Cloud City! Do you live on a tibanna cloud? The same applies to ewoks-they were completely unknown species right up to ep.VI(4 ABY?). This game takes place 3,6 THOUSANDS of years BBY lol! And ofc, the lore break is purchased by money and is one of the better(if not the best) companions. /vomit

 

I'd like if they were to revise all the companions. These useless(well sort of) buffs on DPS companions just irritate me. I bet that if they received 2 attacks instead of those semi-useless abilities, they'd have even MORE DPS(not LESS). As for tanks, you've to thread carefully. Tip toe amongst the giants yes? One mistake and the whole game is ruined-that is how necessary they could become. Healers are ok.

 

I'm going to +1 the idea of further customisation. The more choice the players have, the better!

[DomiSotto]

Well, in the span of a few thousands of years, Ewoks could have been discovered and lost a few times, and Treek is supposed to be the Ewok's answer to women's rights movement... erm, Okay. I don't particularly like her, but I don't hate her. Treek is a utility, but as I said, I would pay to have my favorite companion on my solo character that lets us live to tell the tale more regulary.

 

Really, do you have to have every tougher fight with a tank cut close to his very last hit points? Why is power/surge is better on a tank companion than shield/defense - it is just crazy. If he is a tank, he should be able to soak damage better than a player's dps if shield-defenced-absorbed, not to try to turn him into a poor man's DPS.

 

Anyway, this is in advance of my going back to Corellia to try Riggs again after I practiced a bit on early Bonus Series to see if I can dish out damage fast enough to keep my fragile tank significantly alive - instead of him being my shield-wall! Duh. It's just... wrong!

Edited June 27, 2014 by DomiSotto