Kaggath Battlegrounds

[Aurbere]

One day the sith shall return and take up its color scheme again...But today, is not that day, nor am I that sith... Nah, that is just plain evil, having to highlight it just to read it. Don't be tempted Aurbere, I know its important to protect the historical archives, but this is not the way!

 

lol, I can barely read that black even on the lighter background.

[Silenceo]

lol, I can barely read that black even on the lighter background.

 

I thought I felt your presence lurking nearby... So, hows the scenario coming for that battle royale?

[Selenial]

I DimGray actually, very nice. Much easier on the eyes too.

 

But who else uses DimGray? Nobody I've encountered.

 

Personally, I hate the grey, go back to white

 

Beni, how long till you deal with my faction gurd durmit!

 

Also, Silenceo, I'm still going over those things you asked about, I'm taking my time to figure it out, sorry for he radio silence

[Beniboybling]

Personally, I hate the grey, go back to white

 

Beni, how long till you deal with my faction gurd durmit!

 

Also, Silenceo, I'm still going over those things you asked about, I'm taking my time to figure it out, sorry for he radio silence

Nonsense, your opinion is unworthy!

 

Anyway, soon.

[Selenial]

Nonsense, your opinion is unworthy!

 

Anyway, soon.

 

It's killing me not knowing if half my faction is allowed or not >.>

 

Also, again, Sienar is on the list twice, Sienar and Santhe are the same thing.

[Silenceo]

Personally, I hate the grey, go back to white

 

Beni, how long till you deal with my faction gurd durmit!

 

Also, Silenceo, I'm still going over those things you asked about, I'm taking my time to figure it out, sorry for he radio silence

 

2 votes white, 1 vote dimgray. I like them both, but I can't decide... As for the wait for faction units approval, amen to that! As for going over those details, thank you Sele, I appreciate it But the silence...its getting to me! So much for the "Silent Silenceo" lol, ah well. Guess I can try to be the "Imperial Silenceo who makes long posts with numbers" instead.

 

White vs dimgray... the choice is not an easy one.

 

Side Note: Who else uses White? Could of sworn there was others...

Edited June 11, 2014 by Silenceo

[tunewalker]

The DBY-827 Heavy Quad Turbolaser Turrets are being ignored here, they were by far one of the most powerful and efficient main batteries ever designed, they were incredibly well designed but extremely expensive, the amount of firepower those things churned out decimated Lucrehulk-class vessels in 3 minutes at maximum intensity firepower with pattern 3. Considering the fact that the rate of fire and the turn speeds of these things was 3 seconds and the fact that the canon states at full strength one turret could 'easily penetrate any shielding in a single shot.' and you begin to understand hiw much power those things had... when the situation allowed for it.

 

As far as armor and shielding goes, Venator-class vessels in the third and final year were impregnated with the Acclamator-class' ultra-dispersive neutronium which meant 'massive' laser blasts and fusion rockets barely made a scratch.

 

The shield generators whilst only as powerful as the Victory were spread across the hull allowing sections to remain dormant.

 

I've stated this in Silenceo's thread but seriously do not underestimate the capabilities of the Venator itself, regardless of fighter complement, when one regular Venator-class outguns the Invisible Hand you realise how much firepower the main batteries really dished out.

 

They are definitely a match for the Imperial-class and could probably match an IMP-II with an SPHA-T in the ventral hangar, but the standard Venator-class by third year is less powerful than an IMP-II cus those things had a metric ton of turbolasers.

 

But yes those eight batteries really do make the difference, if those things were expanded upon and kept on future Star Destroyers then the Alliance would have been screwed but as I've said before like everything in the Empire, the best designs were overlooked to fulfill the need of mass production.

 

I'm not sure what Wookieepedia says but I have those impressions from Warfare, RotS visual comp and guide to starships.

 

"The Venator-class's eight heavy dual turbolaser turrets were its main weapons and had two tracking modes. In its precise, long-range tracking mode, the DBY-827 could hit a target vessel at a range of ten light minutes. During close-range fights, the turrets could rotate in three seconds with their fast-tracking mode.[8] In terms of firepower, these weapons rivaled the main battery on the later Imperial I-class Star Destroyers."

 

That means those 8 guns combined have the same strength as the Dual heavy turbolaser turrets (6)[1] From the Imp I. The Imp I still has way more guns and it changes nothing. The Lucrehulk-battleship is originally not meant for warfare

 

"Reluctant to spend the credits necessary to construct and purchase a fleet of military vessels, the Trade Federation began modifying a portion of its many thousands[16] of Lucrehulk-class freighters into warships.[1] Their early navy had about 10 % of all Lucrehulks converted to battleships and by the battle of Naboo, it was estimated that 35 % of the class had undergone refitting.[16]"

 

and gave up more fire power and shielding for fighters then the Venator did.

 

Further more the acclamator's armor was weaker then the Imperial's so making Venator armor "stronger" by adding in materials that made another ship that was still weaker then the Imperial does not change this statement in any way.

 

"Eventually, more robust vessels such as the Imperator- and Tector-class"

 

Imperial I is more Robust meaning tougher, Its 6 main guns have the same strength and capabilites and the Venator's 8 Main guns, it has overall more guns and overall more firepower.

 

I have already linked that the Victories overall fire power was greater then that of the Venator's overall firepower with out its fighters. With the fighters the Venators overall firepower slightly edges out the Victory II, but at no point does it equal an Imperial, and certainly not an Imperial II. Overall included those guns from the beginning. At no point was the Venator considered with out those guns only with out the SPHA's.

 

Nothing was ignored. All firepower was taken into account with ALL of those linked quotes. All armor was taken into account when the Imperial and Tector were called more robust. Its all there.

 

 

Edit: For refrence to the quotes that none of the information provided changed in any way.

 

"This was called the "Victor Initiative Project", which resulted in the Victory-class. This design by Walex Blissex became a direct challenge to Kuat's Venator-class.[7]" Something doesnt challenge unless it has something to offer, in this case gave up a carrier role for more firepower and thicker armor. A theme that would be greater embraced under the Tarkin Doctrine. Even if the tactical capabilities of Venator was better thus being the favored of the directions during the Clone wars.

 

"By the end of the Clone Wars, it had become the most popular capital ship of the Republic, although shortly after the formation of the New Order, it was eclipsed by designs inspired by the Victory-class." (something doesnt ECLIPSE something else if that other thing isnt better)

 

 

"so that the Endurance-class could also be seen as a Star Destroyer variant with heavy weapons replaced by extra fighters just as on the earlier Venator-class Star Destroyer."

 

"It is interesting to note that the Nebula-class Star Destroyer and Endurance-class fleet carrier closely mimic the scheme of the Victory-class Star Destroyer and Venator-class Star Destroyer of the Galactic Republic. In both cases, the two destroyers are on the same level of power, but one serves more of a ship-to-ship combat role while the other is more of an escort carrier."

Edited June 11, 2014 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

I thought I felt your presence lurking nearby... So, hows the scenario coming for that battle royale?

 

Honestly, I'm not sure I'll have the time to write one up, not with finals coming up. We'll see.

[Beniboybling]

Folks, is this debate (I'm not really sure what its about) necessary? Can we not leave it for the Kaggath?

[LadyKulvax]

1.That statement makes no sense compared to this:

 

"The power of the DBY-827 turbolasers was unmatched by it's later cousins, they were replaced by the less effective but also much less expensive standard dual batteries to make mass production of the Imperial Star Destroyers far cheaper." pg.34

 

I don't know what Wookieepedia is sourcing but I have the starships companion right here.

 

2.Lucrehulk-class ships were extremely durable as they had sloped armour which itself was extremely thick, then take into account the sheer size... you get the picture.

 

3.Both the Tector and 'Imperator' are far far larger vessels, hence more robust, Acclamator-class vessels were glorified troop transports and they sacrificed internal armor for capacity, yet were still extremely durable.

 

..."Bah, I'd rather fight those Star Destroyers than the Troop Transports, Acclamators are too tough for the main batteries, perhaps we can simply bypass those vessels with speed." said the Cyborg "It would be much easier and faster to simply engage the Venators sir, destroy the flagships and the Acclamators will pull out." in a dull tone the commander droid stated the obvious, as programmed. "Very well, bring us about and do not draw the fire of the Acclmators, send in our banking clan frigates to buy time whilst we deal with Kenobi." with that the General set his sights on the Jedi..."

 

"In the third year Kuat reached an agreement with Rothana Heavy Engineering to use their Nuetronium on the Venator Star Destroyers which would make the vessels far more durable than they were with simple Durasteel plating. Once all but immune to massive scale turbolaser blasts and fusion strength rockets the critical damage list for Venator-class ships dropped by 64% and the CIS Navy remained on the backfoot for the remainder of the war, relegated to desperation tactics and defensive strategies. Even the numbers could not make up for the superior ship design."

 

"Acclamator-class vessels became obsolete in the field and so were transformed from troop transports to pure combatships, outfitted with weaponry to penetrate planetary shields the Acclamator-class became a background vessel and slowly vanished, replaced almost completely by the Venator ship, as the need for planetary bombardment became almost nonexistent in the final months of the war, the remaining ships were bought by Imperial Moffs and Admirals for personal defense fleets, the armour they were once touted for was too expensive to use on larger ships, the vessel once a mainstay of the Republic Navy essentially became forgotten by Imperial designers."

 

The Venator was smaller yet packed firepower that rivalled the later ships and very strong hull armour, the Venator itself only loses out in size it is basically equal to the Imperial I-Class in almost every respect yet has far greater fighter complements in both quantity and quality.

[Selenial]

The first part of the first quote Tune is using is from the Revenge of the Sith cross sections, but no idea where the last part is from (The bit comparing it to an Imp 1) I think it's just someone's opinion.

 

 

And beni, we've got to have something to do, there's no competitions or anything going on right now

[Beniboybling]

The first part of the first quote Tune is using is from the Revenge of the Sith cross sections, but no idea where the last part is from (The bit comparing it to an Imp 1) I think it's just someone's opinion.

 

 

And beni, we've got to have something to do, there's no competitions or anything going on right now

Go outside and play with a hoop & stick.

[StarSquirrel]

The Venator was smaller yet packed firepower that rivalled the later ships and very strong hull armour, the Venator itself only loses out in size it is basically equal to the Imperial I-Class in almost every respect yet has far greater fighter complements in both quantity and quality.

 

Having read both Tune's and Rayla's I'm inclined to agree with Tune. His sources directly compare the Venators to Victory-class and so the context is better whereas Rayla, your sources are more generalized statements and use the clone wars mostly (in which the Venator was obviously a superior ship) as context and almost every quote ends with "and it faded into history" or some variation of that sentiment.

 

Just know that is my interpretation of the two arguments. We might want to move this back into Silenco's Practical or for Show thread and stop filling up Beni's thread.

 

Also, maybe with SPHA-Ts the Venator could compare to a Imperial-I (if you include fighters) in a scenario where the Venator can keep its distance in the beginning. but the Venator is definitely inferior to the Imperial-II.

Edited June 11, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[Selenial]

Having read both Tune's and Rayla's I'm inclined to agree with Tune. His sources directly compare the Venators to Victory-class and so the context is better whereas Rayla, your sources are more generalized statements and use the clone wars mostly (in which the Venator was obviously a superior ship) as context and almost every quote ends with "and it faded into history" or some variation of that sentiment.

 

Just know that is my interpretation of the two arguments. We might want to move this back into Silenco's Practical or for Show thread and stop filling up Beni's thread.

 

Also, maybe with SPHA-Ts the Venator could compare to a Imperial-I (if you include fighters) in a scenario where the Venator can keep its distance in the beginning. but the Venator is definitely inferior to the Imperial-II.

Im sticking with Rayla.

 

I compiled every known source of venators for my Imperium battles, and I promise you, none. Oth them actually compared a Venator to an Imp.... Ever.

Tune is getting his sources off Wikipedia, which is tricky, because most of it is either personal feelings towards the thing in question or slightly modified quotes that are changed through bias.

[Beniboybling]

We might want to move this back into Silenco's Practical or for Show thread and stop filling up Beni's thread.

I concur, get off my lawn!

[Silenceo]

That moment when you check the lists for the nth time and find a few new admissions, so good and relieving to see that Beni updated the taken units, which brings us a few steps closer to starting.

 

As for the lawn, I apologize about the conversation from Practical or For Show having leaked over here, because if I recall correctly I might have been responsible for that. Not like I was trying to burn the lawn though...Or was I?

 

Curse me and my nonsensical ranting about Imperious vs MK-II comparison that eventually led to MK-I vs Venator. For shame!

 

*Turns to address those debating MK-I and Venator* Back! BACK TO Practical or For Show with you! Plague not this dear, crotchety fellow or his lawn, he has factions to go over!

[Canino]

Personally, I hate the grey, go back to white

 

Beni, how long till you deal with my faction gurd durmit!

 

Also, Silenceo, I'm still going over those things you asked about, I'm taking my time to figure it out, sorry for he radio silence

 

STATEMENT: There's no room for two droids in this town, Selenceo.

 

THREATENING STATEMENT: I regret to inform you, but I recommend that you drop the white, or I'll happily drop you.

 

Oh, and Sel, you got nothing on my. All but 1 of my leadership is on the taken list. Still no PM

 

Oh, and Tholme is an interesting choice. I did a lot of research for him for my other faction ( he didn't make the cut... or did he?!) , so I want to see him in action.

[Selenial]

STATEMENT: There's no room for two droids in this town, Selenceo.

 

THREATENING STATEMENT: I regret to inform you, but I recommend that you drop the white, or I'll happily drop you.

 

Oh, and Sel, you got nothing on my. All but 1 of my leadership is on the taken list. Still no PM

 

Oh, and Tholme is an interesting choice. I did a lot of research for him for my other faction ( he didn't make the cut... or did he?!) , so I want to see him in action.

 

Not sure if hybridising me and Silenceo's name into one was purposeful or accidental but that worked

 

Pfft, your units are on the taken list even if you haven't had a pm Silly Canino!

 

Also, I like Green more

[Silenceo]

STATEMENT: There's no room for two droids in this town, Selenceo.

 

THREATENING STATEMENT: I regret to inform you, but I recommend that you drop the white, or I'll happily drop you.

 

SARCASTIC STATEMENT: Why, Canino, I find it most odd that a droid could be so territorial. Not to mention you previously welcomed me. Here I had thought you and I could terminate the meat bags together. Alas, it seems that you are predisposed against me.

 

QUERY: What I find odd, is the fact that you have misspelled my designation, what i wonder though if it was on purpose, or merely a faulty circuit? In regards to the white text I must question why you would rob me of primary form of interaction with droid and meat bags alike.

 

RESIGNATION: If you must cause such a conflict over such a thing as simple as a color, I might require maintenance in order to alter my primary form of interaction to that of the soulless gray.

 

STATEMENT: While I may not have been in operation openly as long as you Canino, I assure you that I am a droid, from my servomotors down to my personality core. I bare no ill will towards my fellow droids.

[Canino]

Not sure if hybridising me and Silenceo's name into one was purposeful or accidental but that worked

 

Pfft, your units are on the taken list even if you haven't had a pm Silly Canino!

 

Also, I like Green more

 

Yet my Head of State is not on the list...?

And oops I'm exhausted today. Finals, and my favorite teacher is retiring. Its been emotional and stressful for us all.

[Canino]

SARCASTIC STATEMENT: Why, Canino, I find it most odd that a droid could be so territorial. Not to mention you previously welcomed me. Here I had thought you and I could terminate the meat bags together. Alas, it seems that you are predisposed against me.

 

QUERY: What I find odd, is the fact that you have misspelled my designation, what i wonder though if it was on purpose, or merely a faulty circuit? In regards to the white text I must question why you would rob me of primary form of interaction with droid and meat bags alike.

 

RESIGNATION: If you must cause such a conflict over such a thing as simple as a color, I might require maintenance in order to alter my primary form of interaction to that of the soulless gray.

 

STATEMENT: While I may not have been in operation openly as long as you Canino, I assure you that I am a droid, from my servomotors down to my personality core. I bare no ill will towards my fellow droids.

 

DECLARATIVE STATEMENT: Do not believe me to be "predisposed against you". Rather, protecting my own personal assets.

 

APOLOGETIC STATEMENT: I do apologize for my misspelling of your designation. However, that does not change the fact that my allegiances lay first to myself, and then M'lady.

 

SARCASTIC STATEMENT: Although I do love credits.

 

STATEMENT: I also find it odd that you claim to be a droid, yet have made one, if not two, errors as you talk to me about your mechanics.

 

INQUISITIVE STATEMENT: Personality core? I never heard of one. Perhaps matrix is the word you where looking for...

 

SARCASTIC STATEMENT: And I would hope your matix was above your first servomotor. Else I be talking not to Class 3 or 4 droid, but to a lower, or higher class droid. One that is not fit for combat. If you are a droid at all...

[Silenceo]

DECLARATIVE STATEMENT: Do not believe me to be "predisposed against you". Rather, protecting my own personal assets.

 

APOLOGETIC STATEMENT: I do apologize for my misspelling of your designation. However, that does not change the fact that my allegiances lay first to myself, and then M'lady.

 

SARCASTIC STATEMENT: Although I do love credits.

 

STATEMENT: I also find it odd that you claim to be a droid, yet have made one, if not two, errors as you talk to me about your mechanics.

 

INQUISITIVE STATEMENT: Personality core? I never heard of one. Perhaps matrix is the word you where looking for...

 

SARCASTIC STATEMENT: And I would hope your matix was above your first servomotor. Else I be talking not to Class 3 or 4 droid, but to a lower, or higher class droid. One that is not fit for combat. If you are a droid at all...

 

EMBARRASSED CONFESSION: I tend to have short circuits time to time due to an encounter with an ill-tempered Terentatek. Before I managed to exterminate its life, it managed to damage my internal circuitry, primarily my behavioral circuitry matrix. I have not yet found an adequate location to initiate repairs as of yet. Luckily, the incidents are rare. Such a thing however tend to scramble my database for less than a millisecond, but they are detrimental to my continued existence none the less.

 

CLARIFICATION: When I was referring to my servomotors and my behavioral circuitry matrix, I was attempting to utilize something that organics refer to as 'metaphors' though I appear to have failed. After all, I am not a protocol droid who wastes all of their programing on such trivial things such as diplomacy or etiquette. What good would it be to exist forever if you did not have the opportunity to end the existence of particular meat bags that annoy you? If such a thing were to happen I would happily deactivate myself before I saw a galaxy full of peace, such a thing would be an affront to my programing.

 

QUERY: A droid that values credits beyond that which can be used to slaughter meat bags? I wonder, what is going on in your matrix?

 

STATEMENT: If you are attempting to conserve your credits in order to procure weapons of a greater firepower, then I commend you on your ambition, I prefer to watch their corpses tumble to the floor, perforated with holes, rather than total disintegration.

 

SARCASTIC STATEMENT: Of course, unless you are using your own credits to benefit your 'master' though how you can be sub-servant must either mean she can cause such great destruction that it must be awe inspiring, or that she has somehow managed to re-write your programming! I hope for your sake it is the former, otherwise I fear your assassination protocols are being wasted.

 

CORRECTION: As to looking out for your own interests, you as a droid yourself should know that as long as our contracts do not interfere with the other that you and I have no reason to have a confrontation. We are, after all, droids and i see no logical reason to start a feud that could cost me my targets needlessly.

 

ADVISE: It would be wise to perform maintenance to your vocabulator, multiple words that you have been using seem to be coming out garbled or incorrect. I still understand what was intended, but you never know how inefficient some meat bags might be at interpreting what your trying to tell them. Such a thing could cause you to lose contracts, which might displease your 'master.'

Edited June 11, 2014 by Silenceo

[Canino]

snip

 

STATEMENT: My probes have finally returned from their journey, and it would seem you are a droid. This is most delightful. I will no longer have to delete you.

 

STATEMENT: What is in my matrix, Silenceo? A little something called sentience. However, it would not be wise to discuss it amongst the meat bags that surround us. However, I do believe you were still absent when I explained my purpose.

 

INTRODUCTION: I am CN-1N0, assassin and bodyguard. Although I am referred to affectionately as Canino. My circuits seem to differ from yours, as I am not strictly combat oriented. In fact, I smuggle and perform other sundry tasks for many top bidders.

 

With me.

PLAYFUL DEMAND: Silence.

Get over yourself, Canino. I'm your friend. And business partner. Silenceo, you should note I do most of the talking on our relationship.

SARCASTIC STATEMENT: Do you not have a shipment of spice to be delivering, Canino? And yes, we share a name. Its a partner thing.

I gave you my name!

THREATENING STATEMENT: Canino, I recommend you leave now.

Alright, alright. Bye.

 

DECLARATION: It would not be wise for you to insult me, my allegiances, or M'lady in the future. It is not a normal bond, nor am I subservient to her against my will. She is no more my master than you are an organic. I serve her because I can. That is all you need to know at this time. But should you ever insult her again... I can assure you, my protocols are never wasted.

 

Edited June 12, 2014 by Canino

[Silenceo]

STATEMENT: My probes have finally returned from their journey, and it would seem you are a droid. This is most delightful. I will no longer have to delete you.

 

STATEMENT: What is in my matrix, Silenceo? A little something called sentience. However, it would not be wise to discuss it amongst the meat bags that surround us. However, I do believe you were still absent when I explained my purpose.

 

INTRODUCTION: I am CN-1N0, assassin and bodyguard. Although I am referred to affectionately as Canino. My circuits seem to differ from yours, as I am not strictly combat oriented. In fact, I smuggle and perform other sundry tasks for many top bidders.

 

With me.

PLAYFUL DEMAND: Silence.

Get over yourself, Canino. I'm your friend. And business partner. Silenceo, you should note I do most of the talking on our relationship.

SARCASTIC STATEMENT: Do you not have a shipment of spice to be delivering, Canino? And yes, we share a name. Its a partner thing.

I gave you my name!

THREATENING STATEMENT: Canino, I recommend you leave now.

Alright, alright. Bye.

 

DECLARATION: It would not be wise for you to insult me, my allegiances, or M'lady in the future. It is not a normal bond, nor am I subservient to her against my will. She is no more my master than you are an organic. I serve her because I can. That is all you need to know at this time. But should you ever insult her again... I can assure you, my protocols are never wasted.

 

 

STATEMENT: I was not insulting either you or your lady, but merely seeking to understand why you would work with a organic. As you said it likely has to do with our differences in our circuitry, and as I had previously stated it is illogical to seek a confrontation concerning this matter.

 

EXPLANATION: I do not consider the term 'meat bag' to be an insult, seeing how it accurately describes most kinds of organic beings. I do not discriminate.

 

OFFER: If at times you need extra firepower to take care of a particularly resilient target I will be willing to offer a discount to a fellow droid.

 

CAUTION: Explosives do not come included in that discount, they are expensive after all.

 

APOLOGETIC STATEMENT: I was unaware that you sent probes to find me, when they entered my ship with their weapons aimed towards me I had no choice but to eliminate those who did not retreat. I do hope you did not have a meat bag like attachment to any of those that I turned into scrap.

 

CONCLUSION: I must continue preparing for a battle that I have been contracted to ensure that none of the participating members of one particular faction war between themselves. Until we meet again.

[LadyKulvax]

If the droid committee is quite finished I regret to announce that from tomorrow til the 21st my ability to reply will be limited at best as I am staying in the province (countryside essentially) where internet connectivity is bad at the best of times.

 

I shall therefore spend the rest of today attempting to get involved in any discussions, Beni you know the changes I would like to make so at least you have advanced warning here.