Kaggath Battlegrounds

[StarSquirrel]

If we're looking at questionable leaders, I suggest we reevaluate:

 

Darth Vader, Durge, Exar Kun, Lumiya, Mace Windu, and Revan

 

My point being, lots of leaders, and basically all Force Users on the list, have had epic moments of power that seem OP. We can't pick and choose which are allowed and which aren't. The rules did not say that Lomi Plo was banned, so it's unfair to ban her after someone has already planned on having her in their faction. If she was such a threat, we should have banned her in the rules. To ban her now would just be an act of "oh she's powerful so I don't want my opponent to have her."

 

Wait, wait, wait!

 

We've agreed Mace and Vader are certainly not OP in the opener for the last Kaggath.

 

If we called Kun or Durge OP we'd have to start banning tons of other people and I'd be happy to make a list as an example

 

Revan and Lumiya aren't even close to being OP in anyone's wildest dreams Warren. Sorry, but they just aren't even close to being that good.

 

As for Lomi Plo, iirc correctly They were surrounded by her Killik nest, Jacen was protecting Mara after having been knocked unconscious in a crash only a short time previously, and he had been fighting a few dozen or more killiks leading up to the incident in question... Then, afterwards he got out without aid and healed himself without bacta.

 

Oh, and Lomi then got shot in the chest by Mara and ran away so I don't see how someone could chalk this up as a win for her... I don't the she's that much of a threat, except for the whole power draining thing Silenceo was referencing.

[Silenceo]

Wait, wait, wait!

 

We've agreed Mace and Vader are certainly not OP in the opener for the last Kaggath.

 

If we called Kun or Durge OP we'd have to start banning tons of other people and I'd be happy to make a list as an example

 

Revan and Lumiya aren't even close to being OP in anyone's wildest dreams Warren. Sorry, but they just aren't even close to being that good.

 

As for Lomi Plo, iirc correctly They were surrounded by her Killik nest, Jacen was protecting Mara after having been knocked unconscious in a crash only a short time previously, and he had been fighting a few dozen or more killiks leading up to the incident in question... Then, afterwards he got out without aid and healed himself without bacta.

 

Oh, and Lomi then got shot in the chest by Mara and ran away so I don't see how someone could chalk this up as a win for her... I don't the she's that much of a threat, except for the whole power draining thing Silenceo was referencing.

 

Upon further reflection I have come to the conclusion that while strong, her greatest feats are when she is essentially amped up by the Killik nest collective minds. I say this because she was the *hidden queen* or in other words she was a joiner who had linked with the hive mind. I can not remember exactly how far gone her self being was, but if she shared any of the killik power like Raynar Thul *I think that is the right name...* their force power essentially got seriously amped up when in close proximity with killiks due to the hive mind. So these great feats we are discussing, are all when in close proximity which means that she was not at her ordinary power, and can be thought of as a well spring of the force, but different. So unless Lomi Plo is surrounded by Kiliks or is in a Kilik Nest in this Kaggath she should not be as strong, but still formidable.

 

Even if she was constantly at this power beyond the nests though most of the incidents she could not sustain terribly much damage and she did not face many enemies either. If she were to face many enemies such as droids, who have no doubts, she could likely find herself pushed to the limit. It is by this reasoning I retract my opinion that she should be changed, and instead say that she is just fine, and that most of her greatest feats were due to "special circumstances".

 

That said, her given powers are great for one on one but if her stealth is none functional, she could be in serious trouble if multiple enemies can see her. I am unsure how taxing her energy drain is or her force net that she uses to kill organics by slicing them into pieces, but from what I can tell they both require great concentration which then leads to the fact that most fights will not be 1 vs 1 in this Kaggath. That said, many higher up characters are pretty staunch and that might allow them to see her, for example, Revan did have his doubts, but when all was said and done he knew who he was and what he had to do. Due to this and how he had already settled his doubts he likely could see Lomi.

 

I say, Let her play!

 

Unrelated Side Note: The Hutt Cartel?! NOW things are getting quite interesting! As if they weren't before!

Edited June 24, 2014 by Silenceo

[Selenial]

If we're looking at questionable leaders, I suggest we reevaluate:

 

Darth Vader, Durge, Exar Kun, Lumiya, Mace Windu, and Revan

 

My point being, lots of leaders, and basically all Force Users on the list, have had epic moments of power that seem OP. We can't pick and choose which are allowed and which aren't. The rules did not say that Lomi Plo was banned, so it's unfair to ban her after someone has already planned on having her in their faction. If she was such a threat, we should have banned her in the rules. To ban her now would just be an act of "oh she's powerful so I don't want my opponent to have her."

 

Im sorry, but this makes no sense to me.

 

Beni tried to ban Traya before the last Kaggath despite her Not being in the list, he let you guys decide after some persuading and you let her in, only to (most of you) wine about how OP she was throughout the tournament.

 

It's fair to try and call out new Characters to add to the list now rather than later.

[tunewalker]

Im sorry, but this makes no sense to me.

 

Beni tried to ban Traya before the last Kaggath despite her Not being in the list, he let you guys decide after some persuading and you let her in, only to (most of you) wine about how OP she was throughout the tournament.

 

It's fair to try and call out new Characters to add to the list now rather than later.

 

Traya is not OP, she is just over blown by a slight degree .

[LadyKulvax]

I called out Traya from the start, anyways.

 

As far along characters are concerned I find that as long as said character is defeatable and they don't have death cheating or evading abilities then they are fine, which again brings into question Tholme, guy can literally enter and leave a death like state whenever he likes.

[LadyKulvax]

I called out Traya from the start, anyways.

 

As far as OP characters are concerned I find that as long as said character is defeatable and they don't have death cheating or evading abilities then they are fine, which again brings into question Tholme, guy can literally enter and leave a death like state whenever he likes.

Edited June 24, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Warren-Stride]

Wait, wait, wait!

 

We've agreed Mace and Vader are certainly not OP in the opener for the last Kaggath.

 

If we called Kun or Durge OP we'd have to start banning tons of other people and I'd be happy to make a list as an example

 

Revan and Lumiya aren't even close to being OP in anyone's wildest dreams Warren. Sorry, but they just aren't even close to being that good.

 

As for Lomi Plo, iirc correctly They were surrounded by her Killik nest, Jacen was protecting Mara after having been knocked unconscious in a crash only a short time previously, and he had been fighting a few dozen or more killiks leading up to the incident in question... Then, afterwards he got out without aid and healed himself without bacta.

 

Oh, and Lomi then got shot in the chest by Mara and ran away so I don't see how someone could chalk this up as a win for her... I don't the she's that much of a threat, except for the whole power draining thing Silenceo was referencing.

 

I believe you have made my point for me.

 

My list of leaders to reevaluate was not serious. I am perfectly fine with them being in the Kaggath. However, I was using them as examples of characters that could be used as an "aha, I win!" card, which seems to be the collective definition of OP. Maybe it wasn't the most accurate list, but sue me.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Warren-Stride]

Lumiya [isn't] even close to being OP in anyone's wildest dreams Warren.

 

Oh? Because,

 

"She fought the Grand Master to a standstill."

 

"She fought on equal and sometimes superior ground with Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker, widely considered the greatest living swordman in the galaxy."

 

Considering that Lomi Plo's ability to battle Luke Skywalker is the main selling point for her being OP, if anyone has no problem with Lumiya, they should have no problem with Lomi Plo.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Canino]

I called out Traya from the start, anyways.

 

As far as OP characters are concerned I find that as long as said character is defeatable and they don't have death cheating or evading abilities then they are fine, which again brings into question Tholme, guy can literally enter and leave a death like state whenever he likes.

 

SHHHH! Let the troll be! Let the troll be.

[LadyKulvax]

SHHHH! Let the troll be! Let the troll be.

 

Traya was one thing because the requirements for her to do the same were very high and certainly not easy, Tholme however can literally 'die' on the spot with ease and it is far too convincing, of all the leaders here he is definitely the greasiest.

[StarSquirrel]

Oh? Because,

 

"She fought the Grand Master to a standstill."

 

"She fought on equal and sometimes superior ground with Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker, widely considered the greatest living swordman in the galaxy."

 

Considering that Lomi Plo's ability to battle Luke Skywalker is the main selling point for her being OP, if anyone has no problem with Lumiya, they should have no problem with Lomi Plo.

 

Well considering the uniqueness of her weapon of choice I'd say her "swordsmanship", while not entirely comparable, it kept her on par with him in some instances. However in sheer force power she has shown almost no comparable feat to contend with Skywalker and once Luke learned how to deal with a lightship he never lost to her after that.

 

Also, Jacen (who we know is slightly less of a swordsman that Luke) managed to beat her soundly when forced to engage her phantoms.

 

Her prosthetics also severely hampered her force ability.

 

In the end she never bested Luke in his prime and in most of their engagements that she did well there were mitigating circumstances. Otherwise, she lost pretty heavily every time they fought.

[Aurbere]

Upon further reflection I have come to the conclusion that while strong, her greatest feats are when she is essentially amped up by the Killik nest collective minds. I say this because she was the *hidden queen* or in other words she was a joiner who had linked with the hive mind. I can not remember exactly how far gone her self being was, but if she shared any of the killik power like Raynar Thul *I think that is the right name...* their force power essentially got seriously amped up when in close proximity with killiks due to the hive mind. So these great feats we are discussing, are all when in close proximity which means that she was not at her ordinary power, and can be thought of as a well spring of the force, but different. So unless Lomi Plo is surrounded by Kiliks or is in a Kilik Nest in this Kaggath she should not be as strong, but still formidable.

 

Even if she was constantly at this power beyond the nests though most of the incidents she could not sustain terribly much damage and she did not face many enemies either. If she were to face many enemies such as droids, who have no doubts, she could likely find herself pushed to the limit. It is by this reasoning I retract my opinion that she should be changed, and instead say that she is just fine, and that most of her greatest feats were due to "special circumstances".

 

That said, her given powers are great for one on one but if her stealth is none functional, she could be in serious trouble if multiple enemies can see her. I am unsure how taxing her energy drain is or her force net that she uses to kill organics by slicing them into pieces, but from what I can tell they both require great concentration which then leads to the fact that most fights will not be 1 vs 1 in this Kaggath. That said, many higher up characters are pretty staunch and that might allow them to see her, for example, Revan did have his doubts, but when all was said and done he knew who he was and what he had to do. Due to this and how he had already settled his doubts he likely could see Lomi.

 

I say, Let her play!

 

Unrelated Side Note: The Hutt Cartel?! NOW things are getting quite interesting! As if they weren't before!

 

I'll just say one last thing on the whole Lomi Plo front. You guys may think she's a one trick pony, but she most certainly is not. Just because you can see her doesn't mean you can beat her.

 

But let's leave her in. Then you'll all see...

[LadyKulvax]

I'll just say one last thing on the whole Lomi Plo front. You guys may think she's a one trick pony, but she most certainly is not. Just because you can see her doesn't mean you can beat her.

 

But let's leave her in. Then you'll all see...

 

Both her and Tholme are the two I am very off about.

[Aurbere]

Both her and Tholme are the two I am very off about.

 

Yeah, I'm worried about Tholme, too. Not to the same degree as Lomi Plo, but still worried.

[Selenial]

I'll just say one last thing on the whole Lomi Plo front. You guys may think she's a one trick pony, but she most certainly is not. Just because you can see her doesn't mean you can beat her.

 

But let's leave her in. Then you'll all see...

Indeed, let's have a look at this.

 

She can dice someone to pieces, even Vong which had innate resistance to most force abilities.

She could turn off lightsabers, tanks, you name it.

Invisible to most people, everyone has doubts.

Mind tricks to the extreme. She mind tricked Anakin Solo, that's impressive to say the least...

 

Amongst other things, she is what the French call Tres Overpowered *

 

*Sel is joking, Sel can speak French, t'is a joke.

[Aurbere]

Indeed, let's have a look at this.

 

She can dice someone to pieces, even Vong which had innate resistance to most force abilities.

She could turn off lightsabers, tanks, you name it.

Invisible to most people, everyone has doubts.

Mind tricks to the extreme. She mind tricked Anakin Solo, that's impressive to say the least...

 

Amongst other things, she is what the French call Tres Overpowered *

 

*Sel is joking, Sel can speak French, t'is a joke.

 

I don't know what 'Tres' means, but you are correct (). And that's only the beginning.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Aurbere

[Wolfninjajedi]

I don't know what 'Tres' means, but you are correct (). And that's only the beginning.

 

Very.

 

Also wow someone actually chose the Phase 1 Dark Troopers? Huh....interesting.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Canino]

Traya was one thing because the requirements for her to do the same were very high and certainly not easy, Tholme however can literally 'die' on the spot with ease and it is far too convincing, of all the leaders here he is definitely the greasiest.

Oh I know. He also has an amazingly keen eye for espionage, and dueling skills that Dooku himself complimented (although they are not perfect). He is also is quite possibly the best at escaping combat, using his force abilities in creative ways to vanish.

 

And you guys call Obi-wan the master of Trollsu

[Beniboybling]

I think Silenceo is correct in saying that Lomi Plo won't be quite as powerful without the presence of her Joiner friends and when not in close proximity to the hive. I'm fairly sure that through their hive connection they were able to draw on each others Force energy, even the residual energies of the Killik's themselves, i.e. she was amped.

 

So I don't think banning her would be fair or justified, she's not exactly alone in terms of impressive powers. So she can turn off tanks? Great, Vader can lift tanks, smash them together then throw them all up in your face.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

I think Silenceo is correct in saying that Lomi Plo won't be quite as powerful without the presence of her Joiner friends and when not in close proximity to the hive. I'm fairly sure that through their hive connection they were able to draw on each others Force energy, even the residual energies of the Killik's themselves, i.e. she was amped.

 

So I don't think banning her would be fair or justified, she's not exactly alone in terms of impressive powers. So she can turn off tanks? Great, Vader can lift tanks, smash them together then throw them all up in your face.

 

Lomi Plo will always be amped because she is connected to the Killiks. And don't think breaking her from the Hive Mind would do anything as she can still draw on the Force potential of the Killiks. This is outright stated in The Unseen Queen.

[Beniboybling]

Lomi Plo will always be amped because she is connected to the Killiks. And don't think breaking her from the Hive Mind would do anything as she can still draw on the Force potential of the Killiks. This is outright stated in The Unseen Queen.

I know, that's what I said.

[Aurbere]

I know, that's what I said.

 

Whatever, just making it clear. Just leave her in. When she lolstomps everyone, then you'll see.

[StarSquirrel]

Whatever, just making it clear. Just leave her in. When she lolstomps everyone, then you'll see.

 

Considering that this debate is purely hypothetical, thereby runs on the dictates and opinions of the participants, and that Beni, along with Silenceo and myself, have all taken the position that she isn't OP I think it is safe to say that regardless of what arguments are made for her to do something that would cause a rolfstomp, it'd be soundly defeated and/or ignored due to mitigating circumstances (hive mind etc...)

 

Aurbere, we aren't ignoring her abilities and we know her capabilities just as well as you do. Thing is, you are overstating them, much like Sel overblows Traya's abilities all the time. It happens, and while, yes they are impressive, there are plenty of other characters that did things OP.

 

The question is of course, is she able to do it again, are the feats she's credited with as impressive when compared to others, and will she have the chance to use them at all?

 

Relax, besides... I want to see you take her on first Sounds like you'd just concede the match.

Edited June 24, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[Selenial]

Considering that this debate is purely hypothetical, thereby runs on the dictates and opinions of the participants, and that Beni, along with Silenceo and myself, have all taken the position that she isn't OP I think it is safe to say that regardless of what arguments are made for her to do something that would cause a rolfstomp, it'd be soundly defeated and/or ignored due to mitigating circumstances (hive mind etc...)

 

Aurbere, we aren't ignoring her abilities and we know her capabilities just as well as you do. Thing is, you are overstating them, much like Sel overblows Traya's abilities all the time. It happens, and while, yes they are impressive, there are plenty of other characters that did things OP. (Or you just drastically underestimate her... No offence, but Rayla and Beni usually agree, and their knowledge on that Era exceeds you all)

 

The question is of course, is she able to do it again, are the feats she's credited with as impressive when compared to others, and will she have the chance to use them at all?

 

Relax, besides... I want to see you take her on first Sounds like you'd just concede the match.

First, you guys complain about Traya being OP or Overblown (They're the same thing) all the time, but you guys at least had the option to voice an opinion on whether to allow her or not. You all just made the wrong choice.

At least grant us that option, seeing as we do have the information on this character that most of you did not have last time.

 

Now, You seem to not understand.

 

She did These feats to Luke and Caedus, (Solo at the time) who were some of the most a powerful of all time, and even they couldn't defend against them.

Second, she's part of the killing hive mind. Which means every piece of knowledge any if the billions of killiks ever gathered is in her head. She knows all our forces, all our combatants, every strategies... The lot. That also seems, a tad OP.

She was amped, but she WILL ALWAYS be amped, you can't disconnect her, so all her abilities stand and will be the same...

Edited June 24, 2014 by Selenial

[Aurbere]

Considering that this debate is purely hypothetical, thereby runs on the dictates and opinions of the participants, and that Beni, along with Silenceo and myself, have all taken the position that she isn't OP I think it is safe to say that regardless of what arguments are made for her to do something that would cause a rolfstomp, it'd be soundly defeated and/or ignored due to mitigating circumstances (hive mind etc...)

 

Just because you three agree on something doesn't make it right, especially since Silencio confessed a lack of information on the subject and I'm pretty sure Beni hasn't even read the Dark Nest Trilogy.

 

Also, Lomi Plo doesn't need the Hive Mind. She was cut off from it and was still more than capable of engaging Luke Skywalker in a direct contest of Force strength simply by drawing on the strength of her nest, which will be a factor in any Kaggath like it or not.

 

Aurbere, we aren't ignoring her abilities and we know her capabilities just as well as you do. Thing is, you are overstating them, much like Sel overblows Traya's abilities all the time. It happens, and while, yes they are impressive, there are plenty of other characters that did things OP.

 

I am not overstating her abilities. All of what I have posted about is straight from the novels, where certain factors are stated outright.

 

The question is of course, is she able to do it again, are the feats she's credited with as impressive when compared to others, and will she have the chance to use them at all?

 

Relax, besides... I want to see you take her on first Sounds like you'd just concede the match.

 

She is far more capable than you give her credit for. And, no, I would not concede a match where she is present.