SWTOR - Playing with Ken and Barbie

[Rankyn]

There is absolutely nothing and I mean nothing in this world worth doing unless you look fabulous while doing it!

That's why I always put on my top hat and monocle before I post on the forum.

[DarthDymond]

There is absolutely nothing and I mean nothing in this world worth doing unless you look fabulous while doing it!

That's why I always put on my top hat and monocle before I post on the forum.

I know right? And people thought I was being weird when I insisted on wearing a tuxedo during my colonoscopy.

[RaptureRocker]

I know right? And people thought I was being weird when I insisted on wearing a tuxedo during my colonoscopy.

 

Does the Doctor take you out for dinner first?

[Nefla]

Please look up the difference between the word "primary" and "sole"

 

Thank You

 

Please look up the definition of "primary." Even the people (like me) who like to have a fashionable character (and sometimes even buy a new outfit between planets) do not spend anywhere near the majority of our game time dressing up our characters. If I spend lets say 5-10 hours on each planet questing, crafting, getting datacrons, and socializing and 20-40 minutes between planets looking for a new outfit, which of those is the "primary" use of my time?

[BuriDogshin]

Even the people (like me) who like to have a fashionable character (and sometimes even buy a new outfit between planets) do not spend anywhere near the majority of our game time dressing up our characters. ?

Me too, it takes me HOURS of raiding or grinding dailies to afford to buy, augment, and dye each new outfit.

[Beansoup]

As much as I like to die stylishly, I have to be honest with you here and quote Bono (Yes, that dork from U2)...

 

"Fashion, is out of fashion".

Edited May 29, 2014 by Beansoup

[well]

How some one plays the game is their business. If they want to spend CCs on clothing for their pixel it in no way harms others. Ok there was someone in some kind of speedo's that almost caused me to lose my sight. Other than that no big deal.

[Graydon]

Not sure why you guys think I am against you all playing dress up dolls. That's fine.

 

My beef is that the primary source of content in SWTOR is CM outfits.

 

So calm down everyone. I heard shopping can ease one's hostility.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Not sure why you guys think I am against you all playing dress up dolls. That's fine.

 

My beef is that the primary source of content in SWTOR is CM outfits.

 

So calm down everyone. I heard shopping can ease one's hostility.

 

It's not tho. CM Outfits are minor content at best.

[Nickious]

Did you keep a straight face typing that?? You really believe that??

 

Seriously??? Minor??

 

New CM outfits are pumped out faster and more often than you write your, "I love SWTOR" posts. Which has to be nearly impossible.

 

Maybe because CM outfits take alot less to make than say a flashpoint or a new operation? I can't imagine designing a new armor or re-skinning a old armor takes them too long to do in comparsion to designing a map, making sure its relatively bug free, throwing in VAs to voice lines, etc.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Nickious

[adventray]

Probably because CM outfits are some of the easier things that can be made. Wouldn't surprise me atleast.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Did you keep a straight face typing that?? You really believe that??

 

Seriously??? Minor??

 

New CM outfits are pumped out faster and more often than you write your, "I love SWTOR" posts. Which has to be nearly impossible.

 

Because designing new armor and weapons and pets and mounts and toys takes less time to create then implementing a new feature.

 

But it's Minor Content at best because you get it you put it on and then you drive on. You would be silly to expect anything more than that.

[Graydon]

Maybe because CM outfits take alot less to make than say a flashpoint or a new operation? I can't imagine designing a new armor or re-skinning a old armor takes them too long to do in comparsion to designing a map, making sure its relatively bug free, throwing in VAs to voice lines, etc.

 

Exactly! And the masses are eating it up. Rewarding BW this type of behavior.

 

The game is more about dress up than adventure or saving the galaxy.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Exactly! And the masses are eating it up. Rewarding BW this type of behavior.

 

The game is more about dress up than adventure or saving the galaxy.

 

Shenanigans.

[SW_display_name]

Exactly! And the masses are eating it up. Rewarding BW this type of behavior.

 

The game is more about dress up than adventure or saving the galaxy.

That's because creating "saving the galaxy" doesn't pay the bills, because they tried that, and it didn't pay the bills.

 

I would say the correct place to put blame is on all the people who unsubbed or weren't playing when BioWare was still trying to play it straight like a classic MMO and release primarily PvE-focused content patches.

 

If you would like to donate $50 million per year to the BioWare SWTOR Flashpoint Creation Fund they will probably drop what they're doing and get scrambling on a few new HMs, though.

 

Until then, eschewing CM for reasons of principle doesn't change anything other than drive the game farther from creating unprofitable content by denying them their primary profit maker.

 

Like it or not, BioWare's overseers were not pleased with the results when they forced SWTOR out the door despite it clearly not being ready (go figure, right?). The whip came down, the crew was stripped to bare-bones maintenance levels, and the game went into survival mode.

 

At this point it's not clear how EA exactly views SWTOR — a crude success that caught up in its own way, or a disappointment that's simply cheaper to leave running in controlled capacity than euthanize outright — but regardless, the overlords' perspective does not seem very generous.

 

ie — the content trickle isn't because of CM, it's not because of BW targeting CM players, it's because this is the corner BioWare is boxed into and probably under pressure from angles we don't even comprehend completely.

 

If you deleted all the CM Barbies and replaced them with FP/Op-loving Pod People who boycotted the CM, EA would probably just say "F* this" and shut the servers down — not suddenly go "Oh, you didn't like CM? Sorry, we'll invest even more money into new content that won't make it back instead".

 

Sad? Yeah, I guess. Worth dwelling on? Not really. The game is still plenty of fun if you just enjoy it for what it ended up as.

[Infernixx]

That's because creating "saving the galaxy" doesn't pay the bills, because they tried that, and it didn't pay the bills.

 

I would say the correct place to put blame is on all the people who unsubbed or weren't playing when BioWare was still trying to play it straight like a classic MMO and release primarily PvE-focused content patches.

 

If you would like to donate $50 million per year to the BioWare SWTOR Flashpoint Creation Fund they will probably drop what they're doing and get scrambling on a few new HMs, though.

 

Until then, eschewing CM for reasons of principle doesn't change anything other than drive the game farther from creating unprofitable content by denying them their primary profit maker.

 

Like it or not, BioWare's overseers were not pleased with the results when they forced SWTOR out the door despite it clearly not being ready (go figure, right?). The whip came down, the crew was stripped to bare-bones maintenance levels, and the game went into survival mode.

 

At this point it's not clear how EA exactly views SWTOR — a crude success that caught up in its own way, or a disappointment that's simply cheaper to leave running in controlled capacity than euthanize outright — but regardless, the overlords' perspective does not seem very generous.

 

ie — the content trickle isn't because of CM, it's not because of BW targeting CM players, it's because this is the corner BioWare is boxed into and probably under pressure from angles we don't even comprehend completely.

 

If you deleted all the CM Barbies and replaced them with FP/Op-loving Pod People who boycotted the CM, EA would probably just say "F* this" and shut the servers down — not suddenly go "Oh, you didn't like CM? Sorry, we'll invest even more money into new content that won't make it back instead".

 

Sad? Yeah, I guess. Worth dwelling on? Not really. The game is still plenty of fun if you just enjoy it for what it ended up as.

 

You would be incorrect in regards to how the game is perceived. Several quarterly reports spoke highly of TOR and much was made of the $200 million in revenue that the game pulled in in 2013.

 

However the game started off, it is now, rightly, perceived as a success.

 

As to what the game is...well, that's up to you, isn't it? Some people focus on Ranked PVP, some on HM/NiM Operations, some focus on achievements.

 

Some focus on finishing all the Class Stories.

 

Some focus on GTN stuff and seeing how many credits they can get.

 

Some focus on GSF.

 

Some focus on RP.

 

The beautiful part about all that stuff that other people are focusing on is that it isn't effecting you and your gaming at all.

[OddballEasyEight]

Did you keep a straight face typing that?? You really believe that??

 

Seriously??? Minor??

 

New CM outfits are pumped out faster and more often than you write your, "I love SWTOR" posts. Which has to be nearly impossible.

 

Well, some would argue that it's not even content at all since it's not playable content

[BuriDogshin]

Well, some would argue that it's not even content at all since it's not playable content

Ah, but it is playable, in the same way a stock on the stock market is. Buy low, sell high, gamble on a few hypercrates - definitely playable.

[Nefla]

Well, some would argue that it's not even content at all since it's not playable content

Indeed, and most of it isn't even unique. It's just slightly altered or recolored versions of existing things. How much time does the OP think it takes to alter an outfit vs make a whole FP? This guy doesn't even know what he wants, I think he's just mad that his characters are ugly and no one wants to play FPs with him

[SW_display_name]

You would be incorrect in regards to how the game is perceived. Several quarterly reports spoke highly of TOR and much was made of the $200 million in revenue that the game pulled in in 2013.

Yeah but that was when CM was new and sort of re-invigorating the game. From what I understood lately the zeal there has sort of tapered off and left the game in a bit of a lull state, with less emphasis in reports, and a general underlying suspicion that development is actually slowing down and padding out, not accelerating.

 

And even with the Cash Shop flogging I don't think the game ended as what it was expected to be, which was probably delusional to begin with but still crashed its long-term content potential and put it into "Benefit us or die" mode.

 

The content rate and content quality just doesn't reflect to me a game that has a lot of breathing room or support in its development. That sounds mean, but it's not — I like the game and I like the new stuff they're releasing, I see a lot of effort and improvement going on, but it feels like even the devs themselves are pulling teeth to get there.

 

So yeah, that's my primary thrust — CM is justifying & subsidizing SWTOR's existence, more or less. It's not an "either / or" choice for BioWare, it's "do this to survive" plus "then do as much of this as possible".

[Infernixx]

Yeah but that was when CM was new and sort of re-invigorating the game. From what I understood lately the zeal there has sort of tapered off and left the game in a bit of a lull state, with less emphasis in reports, and a general underlying suspicion that development is actually slowing down and padding out, not accelerating.

 

And even with the Cash Shop flogging I don't think the game ended as what it was expected to be, which was probably delusional to begin with but still crashed its long-term content potential and put it into "Benefit us or die" mode.

 

The content rate and content quality just doesn't reflect to me a game that has a lot of breathing room or support in its development. That sounds mean, but it's not — I like the game and I like the new stuff they're releasing, I see a lot of effort and improvement going on, but it feels like even the devs themselves are pulling teeth to get there.

 

So yeah, that's my primary thrust — CM is justifying & subsidizing SWTOR's existence, more or less. It's not an "either / or" choice for BioWare, it's "do this to survive" plus "then do as much of this as possible".

 

You're seeing what you want to see, I believe. There's no reason to believe that the game is doing anything other than great, considering the amount of new features and new content that's been released since December and with the lineup of new content and features to be delivered by the end of the year.

 

As for you pointing out the definition of a F2P system. Well done. You did a good job of pointing out that the CM pays for much of the game's development. That's an amazingly precise observation that would have surely gone unnoticed if you hadn't stated it.

 

Honestly, your entire post up there is your own biased perspective and little more. An opinion and a terrible one that's based solely on exactly nothing except your own wishful thinking.

 

If you're going to say that the game is doing badly, find something to base it on other than your gut.

[SW_display_name]

If you're going to say that the game is doing badly, find something to base it on other than your gut.

I don't understand your hostility, or the need for such extremely juvenile and unconstructive sarcasm. I'm a huge fan of the game (as should be obvious from most of my posts here), I invest plenty into the CM (for my own enjoyment), and I didn't say it's doing badly in the pure-doom sense.

 

It is, however, not releasing content anywhere close to the pace or scale of other sub games like WoW or even other F2P/Cash Shop games like GW2 and Rift.

 

What SWTOR produces in a year is honestly very, very modest, which makes me question the "doing well" part. There are many ways for a game to be sickly, and profitability or not is only one aspect — there are so many knobs and levers in the game development and product-control process from parent company on down.

 

This does not feel like a healthy game. It doesn't feel like a dying game, but it also doesn't feel like one that has full enthusiastic support from all necessary corners and is vibrantly thriving internally.

 

Regardless of all this, you've gone ape over a tangent which is separate from my response to the OP, which was to state that blaming CM and its supporters for lack of PvE content is severely mis-aligning your crosshairs.

Edited May 29, 2014 by SW_display_name

[Tsillah]

I don't understand your hostility, or the need for such extremely juvenile and unconstructive sarcasm. I'm a huge fan of the game (as should be obvious from most of my posts here), I invest plenty into the CM (for my own enjoyment), and I didn't say it's doing badly in the pure-doom sense.

 

It is, however, not releasing content anywhere close to the pace or scale of other sub games like WoW or even other F2P/Cash Shop games like GW2 and Rift.

 

What SWTOR produces in a year is honestly very, very modest, which makes me question the "doing well" part. There are many ways for a game to be sickly, and profitability or not is only one aspect — there are so many knobs and levers in the game development and product-control process from parent company on down.

 

This does not feel like a healthy game. It doesn't feel like a dying game, but it also doesn't feel like one that has full enthusiastic support from all necessary corners and is vibrantly thriving internally.

 

Regardless of all this, you've gone ape over a tangent which is separate from my response to the OP, which was to state that blaming CM and its supporters for lack of PvE content is severely mis-aligning your crosshairs.

 

Perhaps he's being more hostile than he should, but he does have a point. You have no arguments or numbers supporting your ideas. You might understand that some people just get tired of people saying the game is doing poorly without any actual evidence to back it up. It's just a feeling. People have lots of feelings and if you've ever fallen in and out of love, you know feelings are not a good guideline. They can be deceiving. Mix that with the point that people generally believe what they want to believe and then you understand the problem in these discussions.

 

It's just opinions and feelings, but no facts. BW uses metrics. They measure what people do and don't do, how many people log in, how much money the game makes etc. Those are the closest things to facts there are...and guess what, you and I don't have those facts.

 

So I feel the game has stabilised. Why? What is my evidence? Simple. When I log in there are people online and every day I can find groups to do ops. Multiple instances of the fleet. People on all planets. Starter planets are full of people. That gives me the feeling the game isn't on its last legs. New content is being made for the game. That means there are resources available. That means the game makes money still.

 

So in light of that, I do wonder what brings you to your conclusions. Surely just slower content release can't be the whole story.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Tsillah

[PlasmaJohn]

It is, however, not releasing content anywhere close to the pace or scale of other sub games like WoW or even other F2P/Cash Shop games like GW2 and Rift.

WoW isn't getting a free pass on the year long interval either.

 

I do believe TOR has more content coming Soon. The problem is their so-called roadmap was far too coy and they've gotten into this extremely bad habit of stringing out what should have been a single release into a clump of three or four and only releasing that feature. I think we'd all be much happier if their was a better mix. (PVE, PVP, GSF, feature, repeat)

 

BW uses metrics. They measure what people do and don't do, how many people log in, how much money the game makes etc. Those are the closest things to facts there are...and guess what, you and I don't have those facts.

Ah statistics. So very easy to misinterpret especially when those doing the interpretation have limited or no experience with what's being measured.

 

Case in point: Assuming you PvP, have you ever gotten a streak of the same WZ or Arena? (Other than Queshball between 2.7 and 2.7.1 IIRC). One dev stated outright that their metrics showed that all maps were popping at the same rate. They were looking for streakiness in map selection but what they failed to measure was streakiness by character. Direct play experience would have told them their celebrated metrics were wrong.

[Tsillah]

Ah statistics. So very easy to misinterpret especially when those doing the interpretation have limited or no experience with what's being measured.

 

Such arrogance. You assume BW don't get their statistics based on what proof exactly? I will venture a guess and say you have no evidence, just your own personal opinion based on your personal experience. Which means **** all for the overall figures.

 

And yes, statistics can be misinterpreted easily but there's little interpretation needed for measuring how often and how long people play this game and how much people spend on certain items in the gtn and CM.

 

Case in point: Assuming you PvP, have you ever gotten a streak of the same WZ or Arena? (Other than Queshball between 2.7 and 2.7.1 IIRC). One dev stated outright that their metrics showed that all maps were popping at the same rate. They were looking for streakiness in map selection but what they failed to measure was streakiness by character. Direct play experience would have told them their celebrated metrics were wrong.

 

This example has nothing to do with the topic, but even just looking at your example it is clear your reasoning is flawed as it is. You fail to understand how randomised things work. Your personal experience may not show that wz's pop at the same rate but that doesn't mean that overall they don't either. You may experience that you get a lot of warzone A and B. And I might experience getting a lot of warzone C and D. But put together, they all pop, just not for each individual in the same measure.

 

So before you start accusing people of misinterpreting things, make sure you don't make a fool out of yourself with flawed examples.

 

My entire point was that BW is the only one who has factual data. None of us here do. So people should stop using their opinions as facts. Whether it's about what people like or about whether or not the game is dying, we have no proof or facts. The minute someone actually comes with something sensible I'll be happy to agree with it, but so far it's just feelings and opinions and you have offered nothing more...nor could you. But don't act like you know the truth when you have no evidence or at least correct reasoning to support your opinions.