The "BIG" Expansion is Getting Delayed to 2015 Isn't It?

[ivanhedgehog]

Nothing wrong with a rant every now and then, to let off some steam. But did you really have to "necro" such an old thread to do it, rather than simply start your own?

 

Your math is a bit off though. Dread fortress and Palace was released with patch 2.4, which came out october 2013 = 11 months ago (Hint: Americans put the month first, not the date, when writing in the xx/xx/xx date format (Unlike the european format))

 

Also I'm also rather puzzled as how people can continue this trend of "Bioware has not released the content I want, so they havn't released any content at all!" completely disregarding all the content they have actually released, simply becaurse they don't like it. As well as not providing any sort of coherent argument that SWToR hasn't been releasing content at a competitive rate with other MMOs.

 

But anyway, ranting is ranting, hope you got to let off some steam...

 

it doesnt matter if bioware puts out a metric ton of content if that content is either not wanted/will not be played for more than a week or unplayable, like housing. housing is nice but once you have stacked chairs 12 deep to the limit imposed, not much left to do. you have to compare the playability of the released content before you get a fair comparison. the ultimate test is how many subscribers(the people spending the most money) have you lost. we have no indications either way. last years data shows how they did last year. Im sure they have some pretty charts for their meetings but we arent invited. I am not judging either way. if BW can keep me interested in the game, they will continue to get my $. if not, ill be looking elsewhere, just like any other entertainment business.

[Lotharofxev]

housing is nice but once you have stacked chairs 12 deep to the limit imposed, not much left to do.

 

Well you could be like my mom and have her son (cough me cough) re-arrange her furniture every time he visits.

 

You also forgot to add the cluster that is conquest points / planets / patches. Are you a small guild? Don't bother.

 

Finally, as an aside, I'm surprised at the amount of attention infernixx is getting. I figured by now everyone would have him on ignore.

[well]

Well you could be like my mom and have her son (cough me cough) re-arrange her furniture every time he visits.

 

You also forgot to add the cluster that is conquest points / planets / patches. Are you a small guild? Don't bother.

 

Finally, as an aside, I'm surprised at the amount of attention infernixx is getting. I figured by now everyone would have him on ignore.

 

Nope don't have him but do have you. Have a nice day.

[Shevaresh]

it doesnt matter if bioware puts out a metric ton of content if that content is either not wanted/will not be played for more than a week or unplayable, like housing. housing is nice but once you have stacked chairs 12 deep to the limit imposed, not much left to do. you have to compare the playability of the released content before you get a fair comparison. the ultimate test is how many subscribers(the people spending the most money) have you lost. we have no indications either way. last years data shows how they did last year. Im sure they have some pretty charts for their meetings but we arent invited. I am not judging either way. if BW can keep me interested in the game, they will continue to get my $. if not, ill be looking elsewhere, just like any other entertainment business.

 

If you can't find anything more to do with housing than simply stack in chairs and find no reason to attempt to find more things to do than that, then that's really just your own fault. There is plenty of things to with this new content and simply becaurse you don't like to do those things, doesn't make it objectively "unplayable" by any means. Loads of people find plenty of enjoyable gameplay in decorating their stronghold and characters, as mirrored in the massive success of the Cartel Market, which predominately sells cosmetic items.

 

As for indications of how the game is going, it is true we have no directly varifyable data to go by, but we have plenty af indirect data that clearly shows that SWToR is by no means in bad shape financially. The "metric ton of content" is one such unambigously clear indication of the game doing very well indeed, as all businesses as to keep some parity between income and outcome. And creating so many different new features in the game over such a short period of time that Bioware has, will entail a massive expenditure in terms of development cost, meaning that they're most likely also recieving loads on income to finance those cost. Indeed some independant reports seems to suggest that SWToR is even the fourth highest grossing MMO on the market currently, only surpassed by WoW, plus Aion and Everquest(due to extreme popularity in Asia). And while even these reports also contains a fair amount of "guess-work", it's still a more reliable source to go by, than the usual forumposter trying to argue against a mountain of evidence to the contrary, that SWToR is "content-starved".

 

If you don't like the content, then that is entirely fair and something you're entitled to feel, by all means. But there really isn't a need(or purpose) to try and "validate" such feelings with, more or less subtle, "doomsday" narratives of the game failling or your feelings mirroring the majority of players or anything to that effect. Simply stating "why" -you- don't like it is valid and constructive feedback in of itself. Trying to paint a ghastly picture of a "sinking ship" to justify your desire to leave doesn't really add anything worthwhile to a debate in general.

[Knorlac]

Well, no one can actually produce anything because nothing was actually said. It's just an angry attempt to smear me because I point things out and say things that upset them.

 

While you have a point in most cases from a logical standpoint, you do have a way of wording your responses in a needlessly aggressive, rude or dismissive way IMO. There are much more polite ways of pointing things out IMO. No idea if that is your intention or not.

 

That said, making a direct connection, even in your head, between Infernixx's views and real world racism in a gaming forum is just way over the top IMO.

[Elfa]

Stop being silly, I never did that.

 

Dude, in Berg's defense, you always do that. You play too much passive aggressive gaming crap, lighten up.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Elfa

[ivanhedgehog]

If you can't find anything more to do with housing than simply stack in chairs and find no reason to attempt to find more things to do than that, then that's really just your own fault.

massive snip

. Simply stating "why" -you- don't like it is valid and constructive feedback in of itself. Trying to paint a ghastly picture of a "sinking ship" to justify your desire to leave doesn't really add anything worthwhile to a debate in general.

 

Calling me a doomsayer is no me constructive than calling you a biodrone..it doesnt help the conversation. no, housing is not playable. there will never be a group finder mission "lets get 16 people to watch darth mover rearrange his chairs". just making a lot of content, any content is not the answer. they could make a world where everyones character changes into a my little pony when in world..that would be content, just not good content. the problem with BW's business model is that(yes, they did say it) subscribers are the biggest purchasers of cartel coins. while they have made good money in the past, if you lose those subscribers, their purchases go with them. Free to play doesnt pay the bills. so a sudden crash of subscribers would have a large effect. thats why the "no one on fleet !!DOOOOM" and the "fleet is crowded YAAAY" crowds dont mean much. when they were alll subscribers that was $15 each per month. now population in and of itself doesnt mean much. I think(opinion here) that bioware has NOT had a lot of money pushed back in to develop with. I think they have done a great job with a small budget, but there is only so much they can do. EA needs to kick it up a notch to keep the game moving. again my opinion there. it doesnt matter how much money swtor brings in if some of it isnt plowed back in to development.

[MisterBlackJack]

Seriously???? They just said 2 days ago that the expansion is coming THIS YEAR. If this is related to James Ohlens comments then he's referring to post 3.0

[LyraineAlei]

Seriously???? They just said 2 days ago that the expansion is coming THIS YEAR. If this is related to James Ohlens comments then he's referring to post 3.0

 

This thread predates that one, and did you even read more than the last page?

 

Sorry, you likely did, but your post made it sound like you didn't. People here are talking about it being delayed (likely in my opinion because that's what happens with other things) and how just a few things may or may not count as a major expansion.

 

And whether or not one poster is being exceedingly rude and dismissive towards people who do not utilize his/her play style.

 

To the rest of the thread, yes, I did just use a passive aggressive insult. And yes the "know your place" comment was beyond rude. After all, a woman's place is not on a forum, but in the kitchen, isn't it? </sarcasm>

[Shevaresh]

no, housing is not playable. there will never be a group finder mission "lets get 16 people to watch darth mover rearrange his chairs".

 

Some people do like to arrange the design and look of their strongholds as well as their character. And again, going by the succes of the cartel market, this probably isn't an insignificant amount of the playing population. Just becaurse it isn't group content (in the traditional sense) doesn't mean that it isn't content. What people do in the game, as meaningful things to do for -them-, IS content, whether you like the specific content or not.

 

just making a lot of content, any content is not the answer. they could make a world where everyones character changes into a my little pony when in world..that would be content, just not good content.

 

And who gets to decide what good or bad content is then? If people wants to turn themselves into little ponies and would happily pay Bioware to do that, how would that ever be "not good content" then? Housing is a popular feature in several MMOs on the market currently, so Biowares decision to add it here aswell is simply a logical one.

 

the problem with BW's business model is that(yes, they did say it) subscribers are the biggest purchasers of cartel coins. while they have made good money in the past, if you lose those subscribers, their purchases go with them. Free to play doesnt pay the bills. so a sudden crash of subscribers would have a large effect. thats why the "no one on fleet !!DOOOOM" and the "fleet is crowded YAAAY" crowds dont mean much. when they were alll subscribers that was $15 each per month. now population in and of itself doesnt mean much. I think(opinion here) that bioware has NOT had a lot of money pushed back in to develop with-

 

Firstly: What exactly are you basing the premise of Bioware losing subscribers on? Losing subscribers would be a sad thing indeed, no arguements there, but where's the evidence that they are losing them?

 

Secondly: You claim Bioware has not put allot of money back into development. What do you base that arguement on? Simply that you don't like the content they have released with Strongholds or what?

 

Creating entirely new features in the game, that relies on alternative mechanics, such as space-pvp and stronghold-editor, isn't something you just do in an afternoons worth of programming. It's something that requires allot of man-hours and a significant investment into the product, even on relatively similar additions to the standard game mechanics, even more so on mechanics that require, more or less, complete reworkings of the game mechanics available.

 

I think they have done a great job with a small budget, but there is only so much they can do. EA needs to kick it up a notch to keep the game moving. again my opinion there. it doesnt matter how much money swtor brings in if some of it isnt plowed back in to development.

 

A small budget? And ofc, you have something to back up this claim, such as a comparative analysis of the content-releases and budgets commonly used in the MMO-industry or anything to that effect? Or are you simply grasping at straws based on a assumption that Bioware isn't using the money they make to further develop the game while still maintaining costs and wages, just like any business would do to survive a competitive market?

 

The MMO-industry is a highly competitive market with allot of "fickle" customers (if you base it on forum opinions atleast) so withholding investments would be a poor idea for any developer, if they wish to retain their customers. But where is the evidence that Bioware, more than any other company, is not investing their profits into further developing the game. They are continuing to implement new features and content in the game at a very competitive rate with the other MMOs, so what exactly do you base this opinion, that Bioware isn't investing in the game, on?

[MandFlurry]

EDIT.......................EDIT .................................EDIT

 

THIS THREAD WAS MADE IN MAY 2014

 

Make a Different Thread........

Edited September 2, 2014 by MandFlurry

[LyraineAlei]

EDIT.......................EDIT .................................EDIT

 

THIS THREAD WAS MADE IN MAY 2014

 

Make a Different Thread........

 

I believe the OP brought it back from the dead.

[Dawginole]

I believe the OP brought it back from the dead.

 

I did nothing of the sort.

[Darth_Wicked]

I believe the OP brought it back from the dead.

 

First post in this thread since May was NOT done by the OP.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7646438&postcount=87

[Dawginole]

First post in this thread since May was NOT done by the OP.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7646438&postcount=87

 

Darth_Wicked uses Intercede. He receives +10 Charisma.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Dawginole

[LyraineAlei]

I did nothing of the sort.

 

Ah, thank you for the correction then.

[CyberneticDucks]

And by then, I'm fairly sure whatever interest by the game I had may have waned...

 

No increase in character slots per server, class stories are a thing of the past, eight(!) freaking months without a new operation, a full year(!!!) without any Holy Trinity flashpoints, let alone an HM version of the ones we got in recent months, space missions have pretty much been abandoned and GSF has been shelved - for now - in favor of something we know nothing of.

 

Again, unless Bioware somehow manages to squeeze...

 

Ziost, Bothawui and Sleheyron

 

In 3.0 and have the guts to even talk about it by August, I'm done with this game quite honestly. Forged Alliances was supposed to be a story-arc which would span multiple updates. I'm honestly confused about the word "multiple" and what it means to Bioware... More than two, three perhaps?

 

/rant

 

the first part of forged alliances is just a pair of tac FPs, despite being named a "story arc". i don't know about you, but i don't think that FPs and OPS count as story. group content is usually ran through pretty quick, then repeated endlessly for loot and comms until everyone hates it. with everyone using GF, no one even sees the intro until their fourth or fifth time and they bother to check it out.

 

FPs and ops have some kind of story to them, early FPs in particular, but they are extremely simplified in comparison to class stories and some of the longer endgame world stories like ilum and makeb, which are all lined up perfectly. even with ops and FPs, the story is not the main focus, the focus is to get goodies and provide short-time entertainment so bioware can pump out another expansion before everyone quits.

 

as for tac FPs, they only have 2-3 rounds of conversation in the whole thing, so i wouldn't even consider them story based at all. the tac FPs are the "economical" version of the normal FPs. they have very little talk and no story in it so BW doesn't have to spend a ton of money on plot writers and voice actors.

 

another thing i don't like is that BW can get away with releasing expansions before they are even done. they announce an expansion super early to make everyone anxious and give early access to the unfinished product based on their account grade (sub, preferred, F2P). it is also a good way to span the expansion over the course of half a year without making it very big. just think for a second:

 

GSF is just a flight simulator, the KDY tac FP, and some adjustments to the CM and whatnot.

 

GSH is just some housing, an intro mission, and adjustments to the CM, fleet, and so forth.

 

however RotHC was an entire planet, storyline, level cap with 4 new abilities, and a new ops comm system. RotHC was so big, and veteran level 50 players who had hit their peak long ago were fighting to perfect themselves again now that their equipment was no longer the best in the game. everyone had so much to do that everyone was entertained until GSF came out, but now BW has found a way to spread out a small amount of content over a long amount of time.

[Heat-Wave]

the first part of forged alliances is just a pair of tac FPs, despite being named a "story arc". i don't know about you, but i don't think that FPs and OPS count as story. group content is usually ran through pretty quick, then repeated endlessly for loot and comms until everyone hates it. with everyone using GF, no one even sees the intro until their fourth or fifth time and they bother to check it out.

 

FPs and ops have some kind of story to them, early FPs in particular, but they are extremely simplified in comparison to class stories and some of the longer endgame world stories like ilum and makeb, which are all lined up perfectly. even with ops and FPs, the story is not the main focus, the focus is to get goodies and provide short-time entertainment so bioware can pump out another expansion before everyone quits.

 

as for tac FPs, they only have 2-3 rounds of conversation in the whole thing, so i wouldn't even consider them story based at all. the tac FPs are the "economical" version of the normal FPs. they have very little talk and no story in it so BW doesn't have to spend a ton of money on plot writers and voice actors.

 

^ This, all of this... 100% this...

[netslayer]

i've stopped holding my breath, I took like a 6 month break, came back and they had DF/DP worked up to doing NM and too many people leaving losing interest whatever it may be, but I have gotten bored not alot has changed in that time I was gone or having been added, they waited way to long to introduce content at a steady rate or a level increase. the minute I realized all I had left was to level alts and then whats left to level now? so I started to work on achievements and rediculously low dropped rate items I wont even mention I knew I was burned out and it was time to throw in the towel, I hope they can pull something fast.

[arunav]

the first part of forged alliances is just a pair of tac FPs, despite being named a "story arc". i don't know about you, but i don't think that FPs and OPS count as story. group content is usually ran through pretty quick, then repeated endlessly for loot and comms until everyone hates it. with everyone using GF, no one even sees the intro until their fourth or fifth time and they bother to check it out.

 

FPs and ops have some kind of story to them, early FPs in particular, but they are extremely simplified in comparison to class stories and some of the longer endgame world stories like ilum and makeb, which are all lined up perfectly. even with ops and FPs, the story is not the main focus, the focus is to get goodies and provide short-time entertainment so bioware can pump out another expansion before everyone quits.

 

as for tac FPs, they only have 2-3 rounds of conversation in the whole thing, so i wouldn't even consider them story based at all. the tac FPs are the "economical" version of the normal FPs. they have very little talk and no story in it so BW doesn't have to spend a ton of money on plot writers and voice actors.

 

another thing i don't like is that BW can get away with releasing expansions before they are even done. they announce an expansion super early to make everyone anxious and give early access to the unfinished product based on their account grade (sub, preferred, F2P). it is also a good way to span the expansion over the course of half a year without making it very big. just think for a second:

 

GSF is just a flight simulator, the KDY tac FP, and some adjustments to the CM and whatnot.

 

GSH is just some housing, an intro mission, and adjustments to the CM, fleet, and so forth.

 

however RotHC was an entire planet, storyline, level cap with 4 new abilities, and a new ops comm system. RotHC was so big, and veteran level 50 players who had hit their peak long ago were fighting to perfect themselves again now that their equipment was no longer the best in the game. everyone had so much to do that everyone was entertained until GSF came out, but now BW has found a way to spread out a small amount of content over a long amount of time.

 

Yep. 3.0 will be cool I'm sure, but what you have described is BW's content model for this game. What will follow will be more of the same. For long-term subs, I think it's best to unsubscribe and come back if anything of interest arrives.

Edited September 3, 2014 by arunav

[arunav]

265 millions play soccer (according to fifa in 2007)

209 eligible nations

32 finalists

1 winner

 

Should the world cup final not being hosted ?

 

Your example makes absolutely no sense.

 

Everyone in your eligible population would like to win the World Cup, as long as their host country has a national team.

 

In short, the population wants to be 1 winner.

 

In SWTOR, a tiny fraction of players want to play through NIM raids (win? a funny concept). On the other hand, most of the game's population plays other types of content regularly.

 

I suspect these other players aren't catered to as much because it costs more to produce said updates than add a few new mechanics to an existing operation, perhaps some extra HPs.

Edited September 3, 2014 by arunav

[MisterBlackJack]

the first part of forged alliances is just a pair of tac FPs, despite being named a "story arc". i don't know about you, but i don't think that FPs and OPS count as story. group content is usually ran through pretty quick, then repeated endlessly for loot and comms until everyone hates it. with everyone using GF, no one even sees the intro until their fourth or fifth time and they bother to check it out.

 

FPs and ops have some kind of story to them, early FPs in particular, but they are extremely simplified in comparison to class stories and some of the longer endgame world stories like ilum and makeb, which are all lined up perfectly. even with ops and FPs, the story is not the main focus, the focus is to get goodies and provide short-time entertainment so bioware can pump out another expansion before everyone quits.

 

as for tac FPs, they only have 2-3 rounds of conversation in the whole thing, so i wouldn't even consider them story based at all. the tac FPs are the "economical" version of the normal FPs. they have very little talk and no story in it so BW doesn't have to spend a ton of money on plot writers and voice actors.

 

another thing i don't like is that BW can get away with releasing expansions before they are even done. they announce an expansion super early to make everyone anxious and give early access to the unfinished product based on their account grade (sub, preferred, F2P). it is also a good way to span the expansion over the course of half a year without making it very big. just think for a second:

 

GSF is just a flight simulator, the KDY tac FP, and some adjustments to the CM and whatnot.

 

GSH is just some housing, an intro mission, and adjustments to the CM, fleet, and so forth.

 

however RotHC was an entire planet, storyline, level cap with 4 new abilities, and a new ops comm system. RotHC was so big, and veteran level 50 players who had hit their peak long ago were fighting to perfect themselves again now that their equipment was no longer the best in the game. everyone had so much to do that everyone was entertained until GSF came out, but now BW has found a way to spread out a small amount of content over a long amount of time.

 

Fps and ops are huge engame story lines. Malgus storyline and the dread master storyline was expanded beyond planet stoylines and were mostly in flashpoints

[FalmeseReb]

Fps and ops are huge engame story lines. Malgus storyline and the dread master storyline was expanded beyond planet stoylines and were mostly in flashpoints

 

The malgus storyline shipped 100% complete with the game in 2011.

[CyberneticDucks]

Fps and ops are huge engame story lines. Malgus storyline and the dread master storyline was expanded beyond planet stoylines and were mostly in flashpoints

 

yes, they are connected to the events in the game and the class's personal storylines. problem is that they have to be shared among a group, which makes it feel less real because not everyone takes their time to enjoy it. when in a group, especially a group of 8 or 16, everyone has to talk and coordinate. with everyone focusing on chat and team coordination the whole feeling of the story and star wars universe gets drowned out. doing an op is extremely quick, often times faster than a FP because there are so many people they just cut down the bosses and mobs and the deaths of a couple teammates has a much smaller effect than in a 4 person group.

 

i really don't like that players are forced to do group content just to see what happens in the storyline. not everyone is a raider, some people like me just like to be solitary and enjoy the game on my own except when i feel like an op every once in a while. i do think that guilds, PvP, raids, and other group content are a major and essential part in this game.

 

i think what makes SWTOR such a good game, up until recent times, is that you can choose to do what you like best. some people craft, while others may never craft in their life because they find it absolutely boring. the people who hate crafting may find that they love to do PvP so that is what they do. unfortunately with the whole prefab kit system going on, the majority of decorations have to be crafted or bought at the GTN for a high price. now players who might rather blow their brains out than craft are forced to craft to get decorations or advanced 30-35 mods.

 

the same thing happens with the whole "raids are story" thing with players like me.

[DimmuJanKaarl]

yes, they are connected to the events in the game and the class's personal storylines. problem is that they have to be shared among a group, which makes it feel less real because not everyone takes their time to enjoy it. when in a group, especially a group of 8 or 16, everyone has to talk and coordinate. with everyone focusing on chat and team coordination the whole feeling of the story and star wars universe gets drowned out. doing an op is extremely quick, often times faster than a FP because there are so many people they just cut down the bosses and mobs and the deaths of a couple teammates has a much smaller effect than in a 4 person group.

 

i really don't like that players are forced to do group content just to see what happens in the storyline. not everyone is a raider, some people like me just like to be solitary and enjoy the game on my own except when i feel like an op every once in a while. i do think that guilds, PvP, raids, and other group content are a major and essential part in this game.

 

i think what makes SWTOR such a good game, up until recent times, is that you can choose to do what you like best. some people craft, while others may never craft in their life because they find it absolutely boring. the people who hate crafting may find that they love to do PvP so that is what they do. unfortunately with the whole prefab kit system going on, the majority of decorations have to be crafted or bought at the GTN for a high price. now players who might rather blow their brains out than craft are forced to craft to get decorations or advanced 30-35 mods.

 

the same thing happens with the whole "raids are story" thing with players like me.

 

 

^^^ THIS times infinity billion. I realize it's an MMO, but just because lots of people play it doesn't mean everyone should have to play together. Personally I have no patience for anything that prevents me from playing the way I personally want to play, and from playing the content I want to play. Space on rails was the first big offense, and the insults kept coming from there. In my opinion there is no reason that every flashpoint, op, heroic, warzone, gsf game, etc. can't be played in a single-player mode. I'll take the vitriol and sophomorism of gen chat any day over the same in group/ops chat. The fact that we are *forced* to run things as a group to clear certain content drives me bonkers. I'm not saying get rid of group content, I'm just saying let bygones be bygones: those who like the group activities, more power to them; those of us who have no desire to run content with another living person, give that to us. They put all that "effort" into nightmare mode ops that only appeal to and can even be attempted by a select group of players tells me that it is well within the devs' capability to mod the ops, etc. the other way.

 

/endrant