Guardian Top 3 Questions - Answered

[Manweth]

It is the strongest snap tank threat skill. Reflect, that is. And on a one minute cooldown, so no one can cry " I will need it later on to survive!"

 

Because brother, if your healers can't keep you up for first minute of the fight, you should really replace them with better healers.

[tanerb]

I'd have to say, it's most powerful in a LOT of people's minds, including mine.

 

Threat generation is a matter of skill and strategy for Guardians, I've seen GRD tanks who never fail to lose it, and those who never Lose it. Same with the other two tank specs.

 

 

 

Serious question : Have you tried focused defense as a guardian tank? I did , so many times both PVP and PVE and I believe there is nothing OP about it. It does not help against burst and since you are not stacked power/strength as a dps, your healing is not huge.

 

Ok, you say threat generation is a skill, then I'd say knowing when to use your CDs is also skill. Other tanks get help on threat control (and I'd say on dps), we get help on CDs. On top, we are bad off-tanks and do not have ranged abilities.

Edited April 28, 2014 by tanerb

[GrandLordMenace]

Serious question : Have you tried focused defense as a guardian tank? I did , so many times both PVP and PVE and I believe there is nothing OP about it. It does not help against burst and since you are not stacked power/strength as a dps, your healing is not huge.

 

Ok, you say threat generation is a skill, then I'd say knowing when to use your CDs is also skill. Other tanks get help on threat control (and I'd say on dps), we get help on CDs. On top, we are bad off-tanks and do not have ranged abilities.

 

Except in PVE Focused Defense wasn't asked for because before we got FD for tanks we were still already the best tanks in the game. Adding FD just blasted another gapwidener, while not gigantic, the gap has definitely widened. With the shorter duration it becomes more balanced as the amount of defense guardians stack means that on lucky mass defend streaks we will gain less from FD but that's a different story.

[Manweth]

Serious question : Have you tried focused defense as a guardian tank? I did , so many times both PVP and PVE and I believe there is nothing OP about it. It does not help against burst and since you are not stacked power/strength as a dps, your healing is not huge.

 

Ok, you say threat generation is a skill, then I'd say knowing when to use your CDs is also skill. Other tanks get help on threat control (and I'd say on dps), we get help on CDs. On top, we are bad off-tanks and do not have ranged abilities.

 

Bad off tanks? Really? Dude, I want whatever you smoked.

 

And you are a goddamn Jedi Knight, did you expect to use blasters? Ofc you won't have many ranged abilities. It's intended.

[tanerb]

Bad off tanks? Really? Dude, I want whatever you smoked.

 

 

Yes, I say the guardian is the worst off tank class in the game. Yes we apply an armor reduction de-buff but we need to get damage regularly to generate focus, which hurts our rotation big time.

[KeyboardNinja]

It is the strongest snap tank threat skill. Reflect, that is. And on a one minute cooldown, so no one can cry " I will need it later on to survive!"

 

It modifies your threat by exactly the same amount as Force Pull. The main difference is that Saber Reflect cannot miss in this modifier. This actually makes the guardian tank opening more reliable than the shadow tank opener, even if you take the Strength talent.

 

Because brother, if your healers can't keep you up for first minute of the fight, you should really replace them with better healers.

 

I'd like to see fraps of your first few pulls on TfB Kephess NiM at level please. The only healers I know who didn't lose their tank in the first 10 seconds of the first pull were those who had advanced warning from someone else and/or habitually precast overheal on every fight. Oh, also Cartel Warlords NiM at level. Pre-fix first pull on Oasis NiM? The truth is that there are several fights which can kill you nearly instantly.

 

Yes, I say the guardian is the worst off tank class in the game. Yes we apply an armor reduction de-buff but we need to get damage regularly to generate focus, which hurts our rotation big time.

 

And how do you think that things work for the other tanks? Over 30% of a shadow tank's resource generation comes from shielding and defending! For the record, that's substantially higher than a guardian tank, even counting the focus-saving effects of the Courage proc.

 

Even without getting hit ever, there is still enough focus to use all of your 12 second abilities on cooldown in addition to the one forced Riposte, you just have to fill with a crudload of Strike. You know, just like both of the other tanks have to when not being hit. In fact, it's actually worse as a Shadow, since we don't have enough natural force generation to use all of our procs or even our heaviest-hitting abilities on cooldown (without force regen, you can use about one Shadow Strike per minute, you almost never get auto-crit Project, and you cannot Spinning Strike or 3-stack Telekinetic Throw on cooldown).

Edited April 28, 2014 by KeyboardNinja

[prodigyqnz]

that enraged defense nerf is way too big imo. 15 sec I'd say is fair but 10 is just too much. granted I didn't think the nerf was necessary to begin as there's nothing wrong I thought having some survivability. I think the change made us finally feel like our class. for the sake of pvp I could maybe see the need for it (but personally never heard many complaints) but in terms of pve I didn't see the issue.

 

 

This is a dangerous trend they give something and almost immediately take it away. FD/ED was already nerfed when they increased the cool down to 2 minutes. Yes it was given a nice change but now it comes around a few times a game tops. Taking this new ability as it is down to 10 seconds means that while its up someone can CC you stop all damage while you float and then kill you after its over. 10/120 seconds leaves you with 110 seconds of trouble where as before it was either 10/45 (old) 35 second down time for d/r and slight healing and current 30/120 (new) which essentially 90 seconds downtime with an almost second life to recover from the ridiculous onslaught of dots that befall us all these days.

 

If FD/ED is going to be brought down to 10 seconds from 30 the overall cooldown needs to be adjusted as well. 10/90 or 20/110 Keeping the coverage vs usage ratio as it is at present which is not much.

[tanerb]

 

And how do you think that things work for the other tanks? Over 30% of a shadow tank's resource generation comes from shielding and defending! For the record, that's substantially higher than a guardian tank, even counting the focus-saving effects of the Courage proc.

 

Come on man. Shadow tanks have tons of utilities. Force speed, stealth and especially force cloak, stealth rez , phase walk etc...

[OMGITSJAD]

The fact that if a skill miss / resists in the opener is a problem for all tank specs, not just GRDs. Personally, I'd keep it that way.

I never said that tanks should get 100% accuracy. Just a 2%-3% increase only because the other tanks have access to it. If Powertechs and Assassins(and many other advanced classes, but primarily those two) didn't pretty much get that 3% accuracy increase standard because it's a part of other skills they use, I wouldn't even consider suggesting it.

Oil Slick is stationary, and a 30% defense buff. Nice against add packs, not as much against the bosses themselves. It's more of a mitigation device than a defensive cooldown.

 

However, while Guardian threat gen isn't quite as good as the other tanks, a skilled player can quite easily make up the gap. Opening with Saber Reflect gives you more opening threat than a Shadow gets from Force Pull, and is, unless I'm mistaken, the highest snap threat tank ability currently in the game. If you hit with all your high threat generation moves, you're doing just fine, and missing one is as bad as any other tank missing high threat gen moves. Guardian threat gen is nowhere near as bad as it was pre 2.0, and I think a lot of people overstate how bad it is now. I've tanked a bit at 55, and I've never had trouble holding aggro, as long as I had my taunts at the beginning of a pull, and usually even without them.

Yeah, but if you can use it on a boss that is generally more likely to do more damage than most add packs, or the boss doesn't have any add packs in the first place, nothing's stopping you from using it unless the target is moving constantly.

 

I never said that I have too much of an issue holding threat on my Juggernaut, and i'm only asking for the 3% talent to be merged so that the accuracy is in line with other tanks, not over it. It's just that snap threat at the start of a fight, or when something new spawns in and I can't instantly wail on it for whatever reason that I have issues with sometimes. Fights where you can't taunt in your opening rotation, your threat generation is also very much lowered, especially when some of your moves get resisted. That's pretty much only Draxus, though, and not being able to use taunt in your opening rotation being a threat loss is no different than for any of the other tanks. I am not asking for Juggernaut threat generation to be increased(edit: though that would be nice if Bioware thinks we're too far behind the other tanks in that respect...). Just a QoL increase by merging the Accuracy talent.

 

Sometimes you can start with Saber Reflect, sometimes you can't. You can almost always start with Force Pull. Saber Reflect is(in my opinion as a Juggernaut-main raiding at NiM-level) more helpful in it's mitigation and additional DPS more often than it's high threat generation.

Edited April 28, 2014 by OMGITSJAD

[KeyboardNinja]

Come on man. Shadow tanks have tons of utilities. Force speed, stealth and especially force cloak, stealth rez , phase walk etc...

 

Oh, we're talking about utilities! You said focus generation…

 

• Armor debuff
  
• ARMOR DEBUFF
  
• Armor friggin debuff
  
• Accuracy debuff in rotation (shadow tanks have to consciously maintain it "shatter shot style")
  
• Two 4 second hard stuns
  
• Longest single-target knockback in the game
  
• AoE mez
  
• AoE slow
  
• Double leap
  
• Friendly leap (agro dump and armor buff!)
  
• AoE bubble
  

 

I really don't think that the tanks are unbalanced in terms of utility. Shadow tanks do have good utility, but some of it is very situational and/or extremely hard to use (Phase Walk depends on the fight and can be very hard to refresh, and stealth rezing as a tank is an art form).

 

Oh, and yeah…armor debuff. Guardians are the only class in the game which is viable for a sustained single-target PvE fight who apply the armor debuff in rotation. That's huge. That's enormously huge.

[Aelanis]

Come on man. Shadow tanks have tons of utilities. Force speed, stealth and especially force cloak, stealth rez , phase walk etc...

 

And you have Force Leap, a raid-wide damage bubble on your AOE taunt and Guardian Leap (which can be used to great effect while off tanking, or while kiting a boss). If you really think Phase Walk is that amazing, I encourage you to go read KBN's analysis of literally every single use it has in PVE, then come back and tell me it's a truly amazing ability. Now, we get 1 stealth rez every 15 minutes, and on top of that, we have to find a full 6 second window with no incoming damage whatsoever. Now yeah, Stealth is nice, but it's not super-amazing. You're really, really under-valuaing your abilities and over-valuing ours.

[GrandLordMenace]

Oh, we're talking about utilities! You said focus generation…

 

• Armor debuff
  
• ARMOR DEBUFF
  
• Armor friggin debuff
  
• Accuracy debuff in rotation (shadow tanks have to consciously maintain it "shatter shot style")
  
• Two 4 second hard stuns
  
• Longest single-target knockback in the game
  
• AoE mez
  
• AoE slow
  
• Double leap
  
• Friendly leap (agro dump and armor buff!)
  
• AoE bubble
  

 

I really don't think that the tanks are unbalanced in terms of utility. Shadow tanks do have good utility, but some of it is very situational and/or extremely hard to use (Phase Walk depends on the fight and can be very hard to refresh, and stealth rezing as a tank is an art form).

 

Oh, and yeah…armor debuff. Guardians are the only class in the game which is viable for a sustained single-target PvE fight who apply the armor debuff in rotation. That's huge. That's enormously huge.

 

also Guardian leap isn't just an aggro drop. Drop implies it puts a minor crater into your threat graph. No guardian leap literally puts a Grand Canyon in your threat graph.

 

Tank Guards have nothing, absolutely nothing to complain about.

 

Also if we're going down the highlighting the armor debuff trend, here goes my version!

 

Armor Debuff!

 

Armor Debuff that gives Focus!

 

Armor Debuff that is potentially Free!

 

AOE armor debuff that ALSO supplies accuracy debuff!

 

Another advantage of Guardian is the fact that there is literally a noncomplicated rotation LOL. It's literally keep everything on CD with select caveats as far as delaying certain abilities goes right after the opener.

 

Couple everything KBN mentioned, with a slight addition in that said AOE slow has NO CD and NO RESOURCE cost and you end up with one hell of a spec and class.

Edited April 28, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[KeyboardNinja]

If you really think Phase Walk is that amazing, I encourage you to go read KBN's analysis of literally every single use it has in PVE, then come back and tell me it's a truly amazing ability.

 

For the record…

 

• Teleport into position when pulling Dash'roode (1 time use; tank only)
  
• Teleport back to boss when rounding up Titan Launch adds (tank only)
  
• Teleport to center of Launch radius to avoid need for a rock (dps only; usable every time)
  
• Healing buff on Thrasher (tank only)
  
• Teleport to ground for faster return after double knockup (tank and dps; 1 time use)
  
• Healing buff on Oasis (tank only)
  
• Healing buff on Olok with 100% uptime (tank only)
  
• Second stunbreak from Stabbing Spree (dps only; 1 time use; very risky due to potential restab out of group)
  
• Healing buff on Warlords (tank only; limited uptime)
  
• Healing buff on Styrak (tank only)
  
• Teleport out of nightmare (dps and tank; 1 time use only; only useful if reincarnated dragon is out)
  
• Healing buff on Writhing Horror (tank only)
  
• Healing buff on Dread Guard (tank only; 1 time use)
  
• Teleport to corner for Lightning Field (dps only; 1 time use)
  
• Healing buff on Operator IX (tank only; first phase only)
  
• Avoiding birthed adds in terror (dps or tank; very useful)
  
• Healing buff in second phase terror (tank only; limited uptime)
  
• Healing buff in Nefra (tank only; 1 time use)
  
• Healing buff in Draxus (tank only)
  
• Healing buff in Grob'thok (tank only; 1 time use in NiM)
  
• Healing buff in Corrupter Zero (tank only; limited uptime)
  
• Teleport with mine in Corrupter Zero (dps or tank; limited use)
  
• Healing buff in Bestia (tank only; 1 time use)
  
• Healing buff in Calphayus (tank only; limited uptime)
  
• Super-fast holocron carrying in Calphayus (1 time use)
  
• Healing buff in Raptus (tank only; limited uptime)
  
• Fast return from getting lost (dps only; refresh during force execution)
  
• Healing buff in Dread Masters (tank only)
  

 

Not updated for NiM DF, where I use it to LoS the CZ adds and to gap close to the first hand killed in the final Brontes phase, but I also cannot get even a single use out of it on Grob due to the need for a consistent magnet starting point. Otherwise, this is basically everything.

Edited April 28, 2014 by KeyboardNinja

[OMGITSJAD]

Not updated for NiM DF, where I use it to LoS the CZ adds and to gap close to the first hand killed in the final Brontes phase, but I also cannot get even a single use out of it on Grob due to the need for a consistent magnet starting point. Otherwise, this is basically everything.

 

One thing I noticed you didn't have is that you can avoid a Strong Swipe from a(or both) Dismantlers with a phase walk teleport during their cast.

[KeyboardNinja]

One thing I noticed you didn't have is that you can avoid a Strong Swipe from a(or both) Dismantlers with a phase walk teleport during their cast.

 

Is your Resilience on CD? Also, it's a 1 second cast, and they're almost always out of sync, meaning that you can avoid one Strong Swipe, but not reliably both (unless you're doing something crazy like AoEing their spawn point before they appear to avoid a target swap). If you only have one of the Dismantlers (and thus only need to avoid one swipe), then you are probably able to tank swap at that point. Though, I guess it might be interesting for more unconventional Phase 6 strategies when running with two tanks…

Edited April 28, 2014 by KeyboardNinja

[tanerb]

Alright guys, this is my last post in this topic.

 

I am not as knowledgeable as some of you guys, I admit however I have been playing with a guardian tank extensively for a while now both PVE and PVP.

 

I am not saying guardian tank is bad in pve at all ( and I still believe guardian tanks have huge issues in pvp and opinion holders want to blend it through general pvp tanking issues which is wrong imho). I am saying it is a bad off-tank. I still believe shadow is the best off-tank class. I think it is the hardest to play well but gives the most utility of all the tank classes, and makes a better off tank than the other two.

 

And finally to fellow guardian tanks, as long as you have main shadow tanks and vigilance guardians as your reps/forum leaders/opinion holders, do not expect anything good to happen.

 

signing off...

[Kain_Turinbar]

Alright guys, this is my last post in this topic.

 

I am not as knowledgeable as some of you guys, I admit however I have been playing with a guardian tank extensively for a while now both PVE and PVP.

 

I am not saying guardian tank is bad in pve at all ( and I still believe guardian tanks have huge issues in pvp and opinion holders want to blend it through general pvp tanking issues which is wrong imho). I am saying it is a bad off-tank. I still believe shadow is the best off-tank class. I think it is the hardest to play well but gives the most utility of all the tank classes, and makes a better off tank than the other two.

 

And finally to fellow guardian tanks, as long as you have main shadow tanks and vigilance guardians as your reps/forum leaders/opinion holders, do not expect anything good to happen.

 

signing off...

 

What exactly do you want to happen? Like everyone has said in this thread so far Guardian Tanks are in a great place right now.

 

The developers admit that the tank role as a whole in PVP isn't as critical as they'd like and it is something they are looking into.

[Sangrar]

I think that 10 seconds is overkill, 15 would be more sensible but I ain't a dev so I don't know, either way I usually jsut use it when I am using all my tank abilities to hold off 5 or 6 enemy-team members trying to kill me to keep them distracted long enough that the other members of my team have a few extra seconds to take a node from them. Edited April 28, 2014 by Sangrar

[Aelanis]

Alright guys, this is my last post in this topic.

 

I am not as knowledgeable as some of you guys, I admit however I have been playing with a guardian tank extensively for a while now both PVE and PVP.

 

I am not saying guardian tank is bad in pve at all ( and I still believe guardian tanks have huge issues in pvp and opinion holders want to blend it through general pvp tanking issues which is wrong imho). I am saying it is a bad off-tank. I still believe shadow is the best off-tank class. I think it is the hardest to play well but gives the most utility of all the tank classes, and makes a better off tank than the other two.

 

And finally to fellow guardian tanks, as long as you have main shadow tanks and vigilance guardians as your reps/forum leaders/opinion holders, do not expect anything good to happen.

 

signing off...

 

So... let me get this straight. We're the bad guys for bringing outside opinions in here, and hard experience from the rest of the balance spectrum, but you're not bad for not researching how other tanks perform?

 

No tank makes a truly good offtank (in terms of rotation) except maybe Vanguards, who have a rotation change of using slightly less Stock Strike and Ion Pulse. Shadows suffer massively from not being hit, and can barely hold a rotation without having to saber strike basically 2 out of 3 moves. Guardians have to spam saber strike a bit, yes, but they have a lot of other things they can do as well. KBN already covered it (and totally ninja'd my other post), so I'm not going to elaborate again. Sure, Shadows can do some unique things that the others can't, but they're unique, and not always the best for certain situations.

 

As for PVP, all tanks are in the same boat, and Shadows have it worse than Guardians, and I don't think anyone wants to hear how Guardians are underperforming as tanks in PVP. It's not that they're bad in PVP, it really is that tanks are just not that useful. If you want to stand by your point of it not being general to all tanks, you need to provide some hard evidence that Guardians have a problem that other tanks don't.

 

Your posts are full of "I think" and "I feel," with no real substance. Don't expect to be able to walk into an ongoing conversation and provide nothing constructive if you want your opinions to be taken seriously.

[OMGITSJAD]

Is your Resilience on CD? Also, it's a 1 second cast, and they're almost always out of sync, meaning that you can avoid one Strong Swipe, but not reliably both (unless you're doing something crazy like AoEing their spawn point before they appear to avoid a target swap). If you only have one of the Dismantlers (and thus only need to avoid one swipe), then you are probably able to tank swap at that point. Though, I guess it might be interesting for more unconventional Phase 6 strategies when running with two tanks…

 

If you need to eat a few Strong Swipes, you can Resilience one, Phase Walk the next, and Force Speed out of range(then I assume kite a bit so they don't get close and activate again) for the next. All you have to do is be out of their range when the cast goes off for it to stop, which is why force speed and phase walk work. They may attempt to start casting again soon after if they catch up, though. The Assassin I know who does it I haven't been able to run with even though it was my suggestion that got him to try it out, so I don't know how he does it exactly, I just know it's possible. If anything, someone else could eat the first swipes and then you AOE taunt and do the resilience->phase walk->force speed trick on each swipe that comes at you, and then even stealth out if you happen to get another. While this happens the DPS should have plenty of time to finish them off that you probably shouldn't need to stealth though.

[Sangrar]

As for PVP, all tanks are in the same boat, and Shadows have it worse than Guardians, and I don't think anyone wants to hear how Guardians are underperforming as tanks in PVP. It's not that they're bad in PVP, it really is that tanks are just not that useful. If you want to stand by your point of it not being general to all tanks, you need to provide some hard evidence that Guardians have a problem that other tanks don't.

 

yeah the one main use for tanks right now is guard on healers in pvp which in arenas especially is a very desirable ability to have and a lifesaver ( at times literally), that and the taunts that reduce damage by 30 percent for a few seconds, so its not like tanks don't have dome good stuff going for pvp either.

[Vid-szhite]

EDIT: Never mind. Edited April 28, 2014 by Vid-szhite

[KeyboardNinja]

If you need to eat a few Strong Swipes, you can Resilience one, Phase Walk the next, and Force Speed out of range(then I assume kite a bit so they don't get close and activate again) for the next. All you have to do is be out of their range when the cast goes off for it to stop, which is why force speed and phase walk work. They may attempt to start casting again soon after if they catch up, though. The Assassin I know who does it I haven't been able to run with even though it was my suggestion that got him to try it out, so I don't know how he does it exactly, I just know it's possible. If anything, someone else could eat the first swipes and then you AOE taunt and do the resilience->phase walk->force speed trick on each swipe that comes at you, and then even stealth out if you happen to get another. While this happens the DPS should have plenty of time to finish them off that you probably shouldn't need to stealth though.

 

That makes sense, and it never hurts to have another tool in your back pocket. My guild does this phase by sending the off tank to the right dismantler for the first swipe and our sentinel left. I AoE taunt after the swipe and then use Deflection (I still have Draxus since we prefer to clean up the Dispatchers in Phase 5 rather than pushing the boss). I then anticipate the timing on Strong Swipe and use Resilience. If I get swiped again, I would probably be dead just due to the damage, but my cotank is standing by with his AoE taunt. We have enough AoE DPS that we can nuke both Dismantlers and simultaneously push the boss before the third swipe, even if the Despoiler was flubbed somehow (though it's painfully close when that happens).

[Vaidinah]

We actually feel that Guardian/Juggernaut survivability is a bit too good right now. In fact, we are currently planning to reduce the duration of Focused/Enraged Defense down to 10 seconds (currently, 30 seconds) in the 2.8 update.

 

If you are doing this, I would certainly hope you are increasing the speed at which you gain stacks or something else to ensure that players who are being attacked constantly (like tanks) have a high chance at actually making full use of all the stacks. As Enraged Defense currently stands, you nerfed it for the few actually good Guardian/Jugg tanks in the game in the last major patch that none of us tanks asked for or wanted. If you are lowering the duration of it for PvP reasons, there need to be some compensation for the rest of us who already got screwed with the changes to Enraged Defense.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Vaidinah

[Vaidinah]

Most of the discussions here are just disgusting. It's amazing that so many people feel the need to talk about Guardians when they are just clueless.

 

I really don't get your complaints about guardian tanking in PVE. The spec is THE most well off right now with more DCDs than you can count with great nonspiky passive survivability. Literally it's only problem is range constriction, and due to the scaling of it's defenses to gear, with self healing CDs and absorb shields, the gap will continue to widen.

 

The other tanks definitely need to be brought up to par with some kind of DCD. Obviously this isn't the thread to discuss that, but it needs to be discussed.

 

No, in fact, it's not. In the current PvE endgame (i.e. NiM DF), Assassin tanks are by far the best tanks. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply clueless or not an end-game raider. Assassins (especially hybrid ones) are incredibly good on Brontes (by far the most important fight in NiM DF) and other bosses with the only boss that Guardian/Jugg tanks being best at is Draxus and probably Corrupter Zero, both of which are already among the easiest bosses to tank. When NiM DP comes, it is likely Assassins will be the best tank for that operation as well based on the current HM version of it.

 

As for survivability, the number of defensive cooldowns for Guardian/Jugg tanks has not changed a bit since 2.0 started for any of the good Guardians/Juggernaughts. They have always had the most DCDs because that's how the class was designed. The average or below ones gained one that is easy to use, but in return, the cooldown length was extended to 2 minutes of the 45 seconds it had before to compensate. As for spikiness, there are exactly zero "spiky" tanks in the game since they removed the self-heals from Assassins and gave them DR in return. Saying Juggs aren't "spiky" doesn't mean anything when no other tank is "spiky" either.

 

It's not the 3% accuracy that increases survivability. It's the fact that most tanks took that (more reliable threat generation + damage (and probably more)) over the strength bonus. Being able to take both, though, would increase the usefulness of Enraged Defense, thus indirectly increasing survivability. Also, 3% accuracy is pretty big. There's a reason literally every dps ever is jealous of Combat Sentinels for their 3% bonus accuracy from their stance + the 3% from their tree. And if you don't believe the 3% accuracy is significant, I can compare it to the 6% Strength talent for you.

 

Any DPS that is jealous of Combat Sentinels right now due to the 3% Accuracy boost does not understand the numbers given the massive diminishing returns people are hitting in current gear. I can see people being envious at the beginning of 2.0, but beyond that timeframe, the bonuses you get from extra Surge at this point gives a incredibly small boost in overall damage. 3% Accuracy from skill trees is much better for tanks if they could get them since they have far more important stats they have to increase in their gear.