Is SWTOR still canon?

[DarthDymond]

Exactly, SWTOR seems to present a unique challenge in this situation. And, if SWTOR is upheld as canon, then KOTOR must have been canon, so it's all very tricky. It's also worth pointing out that in other tweets, she said she didn't have much information on games. Hopefully someone will address these issues soon.

The nice thing about the notion of a "Legends" imprint is that it leaves open the possibility of developing into a full-blown Alternate Universe if they decide to go that route. (Her Tweets indicated that right now that is not LucasArts/Disney's intent for the Imprint, but she did placatingly mention "always in motion is the future.")

 

There's nothing inconsistent with a game or even book series actively being supported just because it is in the "Legends" line, that imprint just means nothing in there needs to be respected by the "Canon" line (the new movies, Rebels, etc.). SWTOR could very well continue to be produced and supported as a Legends title, fully respecting and consistent with the other Legends titles, like KOTOR, and at the same time being completely ignored or even contradicted by the "Canon" line of media.

 

Heck the ability to do just that seems like one of the two biggest virtues of creating an Imprint instead of just discontinuing the old EU. (The other virtue obviously being continued sales of the old products )

Edited April 26, 2014 by DarthDymond

[iankalo]

I dont think the Old Republic era is non canon. It happens long time ago and the story dont affect the movies.

Maybe Jedi Academy isnt cannon anymore , cuz the storyline including Luke , Chewbacca , etc. The Episode 7 story would be different from this game. Too bad for Kyle Katarn and Dessan

 

Of course, the company was going to be running into problems with Episode VII-IX as it wants to tell a different story than what is already established, so it has dropped the hammer declaring that everything that happens after the original trilogy never happened in a galaxy far, far away.

 

�In order to give maximum creative freedom to the filmmakers and also preserve an element of surprise and discovery for the audience, Star Wars Episodes VII-IX will not tell the same story told in the post-Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe.�

 

And all Star Wars stuff is fictional , after all. Canon - non-canon question is bullsith. You can believe in whatever you want. My Star Wars Universe is going that way - KOTOR games -> Drew Karpyshyn`s Revan -> SWTOR -> Darth Bane trilogy -> (some other stuff ) -> Star Wars Episode 1 , 2 -> The Clone Wars Series -> Star Wars Episode 3 -> The Force Unleashed -> Star Wars Episode 4 , 5 , 6 -> Jedi Academy

Edited April 26, 2014 by iankalo

[JediMasterAlex]

The nice thing about the notion of a "Legends" imprint is that it leaves open the possibility of developing into a full-blown Alternate Universe if they decide to go that route. (Her Tweets indicated that right now that is not LucasArts/Disney's intent for the Imprint, but she did placatingly mention "always in motion is the future.")

 

There's nothing inconsistent with a game or even book series actively being supported just because it is in the "Legends" line, that imprint just means nothing in there needs to be respected by the "Canon" line (the new movies, Rebels, etc.). SWTOR could very well continue to be produced and supported as a Legends title, fully respecting and consistent with the other Legends titles, like KOTOR, and at the same time being completely ignored or even contradicted by the "Canon" line of media.

 

Heck the ability to do just that seems like one of the two biggest virtues of creating an Imprint instead of just discontinuing the old EU. (The other virtue obviously being continued sales of the old products )

 

I see your point, but I disagree about it being a virtue. I understand their business perspective on the whole matter, but personally I would rather they totally got rid of all of it and started over, rather than leaving behind any murky, confusing residue. As I've stated, it matters to me what is a part of the official Star Wars Universe. A totally separate universe of Jedi, Sith, and the Force doesn't hold much attraction for me unfortunately.

Edited April 26, 2014 by JediMasterAlex

[DarthDymond]

I see your point, but I disagree about it being a virtue. I understand their business perspective on the whole matter, but personally I would rather they totally got rid of all of it and started over, rather than leaving behind any murky, confusing residue. As I've stated, it matters to me what is a part of the official Star Wars Universe. A totally separate universe of Jedi, Sith, and the Force doesn't hold much attraction for me unfortunately.

But therein lies the benefit of having both be actively supported.

 

I would be very happy to continue purchasing new products in the "Legends" imprint, without having to worry about the "Canon" universe*, whereas you would be able to enjoy the new "Canon" universe, without ever having to concern yourself with the "Legends" Universe.

 

*Truth be told, I'd really end up actively following both, but for the sake of argument I'd still have that option.

[kobiofe]

I did a job with Lucasbooks back in the mid '90's. I asked the guy I was working with from LB about the validity of the EU stuff and even back then he said "If George didn't write, shoot, direct or produce it - its just fan fiction."

There have always been guidelines the EU writers had to stick to - certain topics or situations that could not be covered. Simply because they would be stepping on the canon's toes. Thats a pretty clear line drawing in the sand right there.

I never assumed SWTOR was canon. It is speculative fiction about the origins of other fictitious worlds and events. It doesn't hamper my enjoyment of it.

To me the whole situation is like the Star Trek novels - no-one ever assumed they were canonical to that universe. Its not really any different here. Except of course that many SW fans grew up on the EU novels. And I guess that is where the sense of betrayal comes from. As one who saw the first movie in '77 as a 12 year old I personally always looked at the EU as 'parallel universe' stuff.

(The LB project I worked on was a re-telling of Episode 4 using screen-caps - kind of like the old photonovels).

[JediMasterAlex]

It is speculative fiction about the origins of other fictitious worlds and events.

 

If that is what SWTOR truly is, just an elaborate fan fiction, and you can enjoy it, good for you. However, if that is the case, I want no part of it. As for the sense of betrayal, I'd like to remind people that that isn't the important issue. I care about the Star Wars Universe as a whole, and if SWTOR doesn't fit into that in any meaningful way, I will no longer enjoy playing it like I once did. The debates about canonicity are really subsidiary to my (and the thread's) primary concern. They've decided how things will be going forward, and what many of us want to know is how SWTOR fits into the new system.

 

In other words, imagine if some child in the new movies asked his parents, "what was happening in the galaxy thousands of years ago?" If the parents would respond with the events of the Old Republic era as we know it, it's official canon, but if the answer would come back with something completely different, then this game has been rendered totally non-canon.

Edited April 26, 2014 by JediMasterAlex

[Trixdope]

If the old republic gets retconned I'll be completely turned off Star Wars as a whole.

 

I think the OG characters are complete trash tbh. Only ppl from the new republic I like would be Maul and Windu.

 

Everything I love about Star Wars is in the old republic. If that's no longer canon then I'm done completely.

[iankalo]

If the old republic gets retconned I'll be completely turned off Star Wars as a whole.

 

I think the OG characters are complete trash tbh. Only ppl from the new republic I like would be Maul and Windu.

 

Everything I love about Star Wars is in the old republic. If that's no longer canon then I'm done completely.

Me too. Im playing SWTOR and buying some fancy toys like Lightsabers , only because Im inspired by the Old Republic era. The storyline in KOTOR and SWTOR is way better than the Lucas`s movies.

Korriban , powerful siths like Marka Ragnos , Ludo Kreshh , Tulak Hord , Malak , Revan , Bastilla , Mission Vao , etc.

 

When I watched Star Wars movies as kid , I though the SW Universe is HUGE. But now , after I played and read some Old Republic stuff over the years , I though the movies are just like 1 empty boring short youtube video. If they erase the whole OR era , Star Wars will look dull and depressing. I wont like it anymore.

Edited April 26, 2014 by iankalo

[Beniboybling]

I've made a thread about this to help clear up this issue, you might find it helpful.

 

But to answer your question:

 

Legends and the new canon are not separate universes, they are all part of the same continuity unless retconned. Only difference is that canon is gospel truth that cannot be changed, and Legends are more hazy, not so accurate stories that can be changed. Just like the definitions of canon and legends in the real world, I suggest you look them up.

[JediMasterAlex]

Legends and the new canon are not separate universes, they are all part of the same continuity unless retconned. Only difference is that canon is gospel truth that cannot be changed, and Legends are more hazy, not so accurate stories that can be changed. Just like the definitions of canon and legends in the real world, I suggest you look them up.

 

Please provide evidence to back up your claims. The fact that a significant portion of these Legends will be totally overridden seems to suggest that you're incorrect.

[Beniboybling]

Please provide evidence to back up your claims. The fact that a significant portion of these Legends will be totally overridden seems to suggest that you're incorrect.

This is Lucasfilm policy, the EU is part of continuity and this announcement does not change that.

 

EDIT: Basically, SWTOR was never considered canon anyway and could be retconned at any time. But its still here.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Fantazm]

canon schmanon.

 

I'll carry on for as long as I'm enjoying it. It wouldn't bother me if there was an official video of that Chee bloke taking a literal dump on a copy of the game.

 

What other people choose to class it as is irrelevant to me.

[iankalo]

I just wondering , was he(George Lucas) involved in KOTOR / SWTOR storyline? Does he wrote some scripts for these games or its just Drew Karpyshyn`s story + some other guys? Does he even know who Revan is ?

[Khevar]

If that is what SWTOR truly is, just an elaborate fan fiction, and you can enjoy it, good for you.

If you've ever watched a historically-inspired HBO drama, like Deadwood, or Rome, etc. you have writers telling stories in a sandbox of actual history.

 

The farther back you go, the easier it is to take liberties.

 

TOR takes place 3600 years earlier than TPM. The fact that we're playing the equivalent of an HBO dramatization of history helps me gloss over plot holes and sillyness like seeing a Sith pureblood Jedi Barsen'thor, or "killing" Karagga for the Republic AND the Empire.

 

Earth history is subject to "the truth is written by the victor" and historians debate what happened merely 500 years ago. 3600 years before today is a mix of legend and archaeology. Why get hung up on what is the EXACT truth of the past history of Star Wars (from the viewpoint of the time period the movies take place)?

Edited April 26, 2014 by Khevar

[Beniboybling]

I just wondering , was he(George Lucas) involved in KOTOR / SWTOR storyline? Does he wrote some scripts for these games or its just Drew Karpyshyn`s story + some other guys? Does he even know who Revan is ?

I don't think so, however given that Dave (a fan of KOTOR) proposed to include Revan in TCW and given that Lucas does keep himself up to date with the EU through Encyclopedias and given how the TOR series is the flagship product of LucasArts - a company founded by him - I expect he does. But he ain't in charge anymore.

[JattaGin]

If that is what SWTOR truly is, just an elaborate fan fiction, and you can enjoy it, good for you. However, if that is the case, I want no part of it. As for the sense of betrayal, I'd like to remind people that that isn't the important issue. I care about the Star Wars Universe as a whole, and if SWTOR doesn't fit into that in any meaningful way, I will no longer enjoy playing it like I once did. (...)

 

^^This. (Is also my sentiment.) And this:

 

If the old republic gets retconned I'll be completely turned off Star Wars as a whole.

(...)

Everything I love about Star Wars is in the old republic. If that's no longer canon then I'm done completely.

[Andrellma]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/lucasfilm-confirms-all-future-star-wars-content-to-be-canon-including-the-games/1100-6419225/

 

Then prepare to be done.

 

The recent delay of the latest expansion for another EA title, Star Wars: The Old Republic, is unrelated to today's announcement. The Lucasfilm rep told GameSpot, "[A]s far as The Old Republic MMO is concerned, nothing is going to change. [TOR] has always been a part of the Expanded Universe, and that's not going to change."

 

And as we've already learned, the EU is not canon, though elements from it can be drawn upon for projects moving forward.

[Edzew]

How is the money spent on EU stuff "worth nothing"?

 

Used books usually have little to no value anyway and only you can decide if the money spent was worth it in terms of enjoyment received from spending it.

 

no there are a few rare books that are worth some money.. well they were worth some money who knows now.. the Lando books in hard back fetch around $100 each and there are 3 of them. there are other books that are worth around 50 up to 80 dollars. so who knows what they will be worth now that their stories have been trashed

 

 

That same clip had plenty of footage showing off The Force Unleashed II, Dark Empire, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Han Solo at Star's End, and Heir to the Empire too. I really wouldn't read too much into that.

 

this! ^^^

 

also there are plenty of EU stuff that is pre RTJ that i doubt will stay cannon i don't know why a lot of you think anything before RTJ is safe, its all gone from ktor on up to fate of the jedi its all gone. they will pick and choose bits they think will be good and trash the rest and call it "legend"

[Genuine]

It isnt just Post-ROTJ. The darth plagueis novel and Darth Bane novel are also considered "legends" by a senior LFL employee. The old republic era IS NOT SAFE.

 

Darth Bane: Path of Destruction 1003 BBY to 1000 BBY.

 

Darth Bane: Rule of Two 1000 BBY–990 BBY

 

Darth Bane Dynasty of Evil 980 BBY

 

Darth Plagueis Novel 67-65 BBY (Part 1) 54-52 BBY (Part 2) 34-32 BBY (Part 3)

 

The Rise of the Empire era, sometimes referred to as the Prequel era, takes place between 1000 BBY (the Seventh Battle of Ruusan) and 0 BBY (the Battle of Toprawa)

 

only Darth Bane: Path of Destruction is in old republic era

 

getting back to the cannon in my head its all canon i don't care if Chewbacca him self appeared to me in a force vision and told me it was not i would still say UP YOURS CHEW!

Edited April 26, 2014 by Genuine

[Oneirophrenia]

I love my "Canon" t4i, especially when paired with my "Canon" 24-105mm F/4.0 lens but not so much with my "Canon" 50mm F/1.8 lens. Oh wait, we're not talking about cameras here? Oopsie.

 

Who cares, it's all fiction in the end. Of all the issues people could possibly concern themselves with in the non-fictional universe.... eeesh.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Oneirophrenia

[Frybert]

Does it really matter what Disney/LucasFilm/George Lucas/JJ Abrams/Santa Claus say is canon? Lucas himself said years ago he only considered what was in the movies as canon, did that stop anyone else from enjoying the EU? No one is going to come arrest you because you like whatever happens in a book/video game/comic over a movie that came out years later. There are many things that were once considered canon that have since been retconned officially. Your Star Wars experience is whatever you want it to be. Edited April 26, 2014 by Frybert

[DarthDymond]

There seem to be (at least) two main lines of thinking on what the Legends imprint means:

 

1) Everything in the EU is now subject to being overwritten by new works, but until they are actually contradicted/overwritten by future "Canon" works, the existing EU works still count as part of the Universe. (This is the theory as to why SWTOR is safe, because it is so far removed from the movies that it is not likely to be overwritten.)

 

2) Everything in the EU has now been relegated to an Alternate Universe, only things that are actively imported by future "Canon" works will count as part of that Universe. (This is the Theory that until a Canon novel, show or movie actively says "there was a war between the Sith and Republic 3600 years before the Battle of Yavin" no such conflict actually exists in the Universe.)

 

From reading the press release and twitter messages, I'm pretty sure Theory #2 is correct.

 

The Marvel Cinematic Universe is another example of a property where one writers "have full access to the rich content" of previous lore: the Marvel Comics. What that means is that a lot of times we see everything from a quick "nod and a wink" to the Comics Universe (like telling SHIELD that Thor's name is 'Donald Blake') to lifting full storylines from it (like Captain America's origin).

 

But the Cinematic Universe canon does not assume that things from the comics happened until they are contradicted. Just because nothing has said Hawkeye wasn't a member of the Circus of Crime as a kid, doesn't mean that it's part of his backstory in the movies.

 

Pretty sure the Legends are as much a part of the new Canon as the Marvel Comics stories are a part of the Marvel Movies.

Edited April 26, 2014 by DarthDymond

[Chrisweaver]

No. I spent my money for official continuation of Star Wars Saga. SWTOR was official backstory for Star Wars Saga and used a lot from the EU. Now, since they stated everything that was published before "A New Dawn" is non-canon, why should I bother? I want official statement about SWTOR because I don't want to play a game that is irrelevant.

 

This is irrelevant this game will change no lives and is purely here for entertainment and to make money.

[HoloTweed]

It isnt just Post-ROTJ. The darth plagueis novel and Darth Bane novel are also considered "legends" by a senior LFL employee. The old republic era IS NOT SAFE.

 

Source? I have not read anything that talks about pre-ROTJ material (or "all" EU) becoming "Legendary"

[Infernixx]

Source? I have not read anything that talks about pre-ROTJ material (or "all" EU) becoming "Legendary"

 

Yeah, as far as I've read, their only issue has been to remove the post-Endor crap to make room for the movies. They haven't even bothered to look at the pre-Skywalker stuff in regard to pruning. Nor should they since the movies are all about the same time era as the original movies.