tunewalker Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) I don't know where to begin. Underrated by every star wars fan or only those who actually know the lore? What counts as underrated? Someone who is strong but people say (s)he isn't? Or someone is strong but people don't even talk about him/her or acknowledge his/her feats (Like not even getting into BattleZone )? I think its either those who know the lore, or every star wars fan.... If its every star wars fan..... i have to say Luke. Those that know the lore know he is strong. Then there are most that dont know what he becomes and just him judge on the movies and conisder him weak, even though in the movies he was still one of the strongest of all time. Though I will say it right now. I dont think Dooku gets the credit he deserves in anything except his blade work. I feel he is actually more powerful then both Malgus and Traya, yet I can unfortunately not really prove it, especially since Traya's powers are so undefined, beyond force Drain. Though, Malgus and Traya are also candidates for this list, especially Traya as beyond the fans I doubt she gets much credit for what she DID do. I have certainly gained a larger respect for her speed and saber skill, though I think thats about all i have budged on. Edited April 21, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 I think its either those who know the lore, or every star wars fan.... If its every star wars fan..... i have to say Luke. Those that know the lore know he is strong. Then there are most that dont know what he becomes and just him judge on the movies and conisder him weak, even though in the movies he was still one of the strongest of all time. Though I will say it right now. I dont think Dooku gets the credit he deserves in anything except his blade work. I feel he is actually more powerful then both Malgus and Traya, yet I can unfortunately not really prove it, especially since Traya's powers are so undefined, beyond force Drain. Though, Malgus and Traya are also candidates for this list, especially Traya as beyond the fans I doubt she gets much credit for what she DID do. I have certainly gained a larger respect for her speed and saber skill, though I think thats about all i have budged on. I do agree that Dooku is more powerful than he is given credit for, but maybe not that powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) I do agree that Dooku is more powerful than he is given credit for, but maybe not that powerful. I read an enphasis on Maybe and I think thats my point. Maybe, its truly hard to dicern force user "power level" when every single individual power is unique to each force users affinity for and training in addition to connection with the force knowledge and understanding (knowledge and understanding are NOT the same thing when it comes to the Force) Edited April 21, 2014 by tunewalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 I read an enphasis on Maybe Maybe... Anyway, I think I'm going to nominate Coleman Trebor for #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Maybe... Anyway, I think I'm going to nominate Coleman Trebor for #1. Seconded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffrenBrek Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Revan. Sidious Luke That is all. Edited April 21, 2014 by JeffrenBrek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Revan. Sidious Luke That is all. Revan, maybe, Luke maybe... sidious I dont think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Maybe... Anyway, I think I'm going to nominate Coleman Trebor for #1. Idk if he could get #1 if look at the magnitude of the underrating. I mean yes he is underrated, but he wasn't much anyway . Even you and Beni said he made it into the council because of his diplomacy. I nominate Rahm Kota for...idk somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Idk if he could get #1 if look at the magnitude of the underrating. I mean yes he is underrated, but he wasn't much anyway . Even you and Beni said he made it into the council because of his diplomacy. I nominate Rahm Kota for...idk somewhere I elaborated further on him in a different thread. Basically, I think Trebor is one of the best Jedi in the Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Revan. Sidious Luke That is all. I find it unlikely that Revan will make it on this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) I elaborated further on him in a different thread. Basically, I think Trebor is one of the best Jedi in the Order. Do you mean this? I'm just going to ramble for a bit and hope it means something in this discussion. "Although I am a Jedi Battlemaster, I must stress that aggression is never the way of the Jedi. More fundamental than even Form I is Form Zero- finding a non-violent solution to any problem you encounter. In the words of the Tythonese Sky Judge Culoph, 'the best blades are kept in their sheathes.'"- Jedi Battlemaster Skarch Vaunk Even Yoda recognizes this precept for what it is, and makes mention of this several times throughout the Clone Wars, lamenting the fact that the Jedi have to unsheathe their blades. The comic 'The Best Blades' focuses on Yoda's journey to Thustra, where he attempts to bring a peaceful end to the conflict there, despite everyone pushing for more fighting. It is a brilliant story for this topic because it focuses on Yoda doing everything in his power to avoid violence, even when his adversary (and friend) and allies push for continued fighting. It is a story that focuses on what the Jedi have become. Yoda also mentions Culoph during the story and elaborates on why a Jedi focuses on bringing violence to an end without violence. So why the story? Well, I feel it pertains to the discussion at hand, and my general point. A Jedi is not a warrior. Even the greatest of Jedi swordmasters recognize this. Coleman Trebor may not be the most skilled warrior, but this is not what makes a Jedi a Jedi. As I said before, we should focus on those who fail to dedicate themselves to the fundamental precepts of the Jedi Order. In doing this, we can see that Coleman Trebor is not the worst Jedi ever. /endrant It depends how is Coleman underrated. As a warrior? Then he can't make #1, even you said he is not a skilled warrior. Or a Jedi as a whole with every trait that comes with it? Maybe yes then. Also what do you think of Kota? Edited April 21, 2014 by cs_zoltan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I nominate Nomi Sunrider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Revan. I Lol'd. I really did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffrenBrek Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I Lol'd. I really did. I'm glad that someone understood my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMudkip Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I Lol'd. I really did. Glad I wasn't the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sell-dog Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Nomi Sunrider. Second this and nominate Thon as well. I feel they are often overlooked in their era because they lived in a time of Kun and Ulic. Beldorion and Tionne had very high opinions of them being among the greatest of all Jedi. I know these are more character statements but character statements are just as much of author's interpretation of the SW universe as the powers he/she gives that character. I feel this is especially true when the statement comes in a neutral setting and not in an exaggerated or manipulative manner. Sunrider and Thon have Force feats to boost the claim of the character statements. I also have another interesting nomination, Ahsoka Tano. As the goal (I think) of this list is to rank an character's true/displayed Force Power against the average fan perception of character, Ahsoka fits the bill. I feel most people look at her as a Padawan and nothing more then assuming she's a scrub. To be honest in terms of her combat feats while watching TCW, there's no way she's the stereotypical level of "Padawan" in this regard. She held her own against Grevious and Ventress well using impressive TK feats on both along with having enough lightsaber skill to hold them off. We've seen people acquiring the rank of Jedi Knight (or higher) not being able to do this and thus the label of Padawan certainly does not apply to Tano in terms of combat. I think she is under-rated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Second this and nominate Thon as well.Thon is a dinosaur with no skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sell-dog Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Thon is a dinosaur with no skills. ^^ backs my nomination for him as under-rated Abilities/Titles include: -telepathy -TK/Force Waves -Force Speed -Battle Meditation -Jedi Weapons Master -Able to take the planet Ambria from being a haven for the Dark Side/Sith Spirits to confining them to the bottom of a single lake. Pretty impressive. Thon is a man among boys which is why Thon is the only Jedi Master that Kun sent multiple Sith Acolytes to destroy during the Great Sith War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) ^^ backs my nomination for him as under-rated Abilities/Titles include: -telepathy -TK/Force Waves -Force Speed -Battle Meditation -Jedi Weapons Master -Able to take the planet Ambria from being a haven for the Dark Side/Sith Spirits to confining them to the bottom of a single lake. Pretty impressive. Thon is a man among boys which is why Thon is the only Jedi Master that Kun sent multiple Sith Acolytes to destroy during the Great Sith War.I know I know, but the temptation to troll is just too great. I agree though, I wouldn't put him too high up however because I think it is in part due to a lack of information. For the record I also nominate Dooku. I am unsure as to who deserves #1. I think first we should create a pool of candidates. Edited April 21, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sell-dog Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I know I know, but the temptation to troll is just too great. I agree though, I wouldn't put him too high up however because I think it is in part due to a lack of information. For the record I also nominate Dooku. I am unsure as to who deserves #1. I think first we should create a pool of candidates. I also agree with Dooku. I feel that among the general fan population since he is not as cool/bada** as Maul paired with the fact that Sidious viewed him as a useful place holder until Vader, people view him as some interim scrub. Heck before I started getting into the EU/Lore I had a similar mentality. My nominations for the general pool (for now) are: N. Sunrider, Thon, A Tano, and Dooku. I still like having Plagueis #1 or at least in the top 3. Caedus could also be considered for under-rated as well. The regular viewers know all too well how many threads have been made/necroed about comparing *you-know-who* to Sidious. What is often lost and even harder to argue is that *you-know-who* is also below Caedus as well. This along with the silly argument that Post ROTJ EU is uncertain at the moment have people not giving much thought to him. So I guess my nomination for the general pool (for now ) are: Sunrider, Thon, Tano, Dooku, and Caedus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Honorary number 1 for Coleman Trebor. He's so under-rated nobody cares enough to put him in this list. EDIT: Also, never quite understood - under-rated how? By the fans in general, the people in this forum or by what is given us in the lore (and not backed up accordingly, see Trebor being on the Council and dying like a scrub). Because it's a different pool. I mean, there are several threads, some of them 100 pages long, talking about Vitiate being more powerful than Darth Sidious. Does that mean we need to include Sidious here? Edited April 21, 2014 by Darkelefantos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Let me say again, under-rated in our context means that characters that are powerful/skilled, but don't get that recognition because of some reason (way they died, etc.). Think Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin, and Kit Fisto. Those three are master swordsmen renowned as three of the best in the Jedi Order, yet few actually think that because of the way they died. Other means of under-rating can be characters that are overshadowed by others (IE. Malak stands in Revan's shadow). So basically, if you know a character is powerful and/or skilled, but many others do not think the same, then they are probably under-rated. This is a hard topic, of course, because we have to study a widespread opinion, not just the current ones. Anyway, the current pool of candidates are: Darth Vader Darth Malak Darth Traya Darth Sion Asajj Ventress Shaak Ti Kit Fisto Agen Kolar Saesee Tiin Coleman Trebor Count Dooku Rahm Kota Nomi Sunrider Thon Ahsoka Tano Darth Caedus So let's focus on one step at a time. Do we want to keep Darth Plagueis where he is, or is someone more deserving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 (edited) Shaak Ti is more overrated tbh Aurbere, Trebor hasn't shown anything to warrant him being there, he was a diplomat, him being on the council doesn't mean he is powerful or skilled, it's clearly shown that he was put on the council because of his diplomacy skill. Edited April 21, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Let me say again, under-rated in our context means that characters that are powerful/skilled, but don't get that recognition because of some reason (way they died, etc.). Think Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin, and Kit Fisto. Those three are master swordsmen renowned as three of the best in the Jedi Order, yet few actually think that because of the way they died. Other means of under-rating can be characters that are overshadowed by others (IE. Malak stands in Revan's shadow). So basically, if you know a character is powerful and/or skilled, but many others do not think the same, then they are probably under-rated. This is a hard topic, of course, because we have to study a widespread opinion, not just the current ones. Anyway, the current pool of candidates are: Darth Vader Darth Malak Darth Traya Darth Sion Asajj Ventress Shaak Ti Kit Fisto Agen Kolar Saesee Tiin Coleman Trebor Count Dooku Rahm Kota Nomi Sunrider Thon Ahsoka Tano Darth Caedus So let's focus on one step at a time. Do we want to keep Darth Plagueis where he is, or is someone more deserving?So in-lore reasons I suppose right? Well this is how I would order them currently. Darth Malak Darth Sion Count Dooku Thon Darth Plagueis Darth Caedus Nomi Sunrider Darth Traya Shaak Ti Rahm Kota This is how I would order them, cutting off at the #10 mark. I think I'm still set on Malak for #1. The man is considered a chump and in the BattleZone he lost against Nyriss when in fact evidence suggests that he's considerably more powerful than Nyriss (fairing much, much better again Revan) and he has a wealth of impressive feats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sell-dog Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I really like this thread. I propose the following method moving forward subject to OP/posters' thoughts. Possibly instead of listing names we should pick one of our nominations and argue why they should be #1. In the construction of our arguments, we could state the misconceptions/under-valuing of that character either by citing some blogs/sites, quote fellow posters, or just stating a general idea. Then the argument would address why this under-valuing is not true and explain why the way they died, overshadowed, etc is not a statement against their power (ie Fisto dying quickly is a statement to Sidious' power not a statement to Fisto's lack of power). Then proceed in the usual manner of listing feats that show just how powerful said character is in comparison to the under-valuing that takes place. Take note I also think Plagueis should also be included in the pool. Maybe even Sidious as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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