DPS Meters...

[Grimshock]

I really hope they dont add a dmg meter, I been in online games a lot longer then they have been and its never been a problem or a big deal before they spawned into existent.

 

If you can do the content, thats what is important. I am all for someone wanting to improve there character. But this is where online games sink or swim to people.

 

I like playing my char how I injoy it and not forced into an optimal spec to raid. If dps meters was used properly it would be a great tool but its misused by dang near everyone. Like your raid wiped and check meters along with trying to develop a tactic to down the boss. So you can figure out what went wrong.

 

It used now more as a standard then a tool to help. If you cant do X amount of dmg or healing then your gone. Even if the boss is downed, even in some heroics you get kicked.

So I am forced to spec the most optimal way. Sure I can join another guild, but another guild would force u to spec the most optimal way as well, thats the thing for setting standards. Its not just a rare few people doing it, its everyone. Some are just a little less mean about it.

 

 

Ones everyone starts getting max and we start raiding if raids are so frustrating difficult and everyone doing piss poor dps and we are all getting wiped left and right with almost no chance of wining because no one knows how to output enough dps to own a boss they will add it and I will swear by dps meters from then on.

[banehammer]

Not quite. What -really- happens is people who love playing their spec and class are forced to change due to them not parsing high enough.

 

Guild A Runs with 4 weird specs, they down all content very quick and efficiently.

 

DPS meters come around. Guild A makes those 4 specs change because they see they're "being carried". Now, they still down the content but no longer play what they want.

 

If you want it for "personal growth" Equip item. Go fight mobs, watch how hard Ability A, B, and C hit for, and how much they crit.

 

Switch items. Repeat above. We had to do it in EQ1 without even a real combat log, and people still knew their class/rotation, and that was one of the hardest MMOs to date.

 

Well put.

I think damage meters can be fun but they can also ruin the game for many reasons including mentioned above.

[Maltuvion]

Epeen?

 

Whats wrong with a little friendly competition? When me and my friends play we love to compete at topping the dmg meter, its just damned good fun.

 

This too.

 

And btw, where is target of target? When I'm tanking I really like to have that option!

 

So. Much. This.

[Abye]

3/4 of the anti-damagemeter crowd will shut up once their group isn't able to beat a hardmode boss.

[Kenmuir]

For all of you against Damage Meters, can you answer the following questions without being a hypocrite?

 

Is it elitism when I kick the tank out of my group because he can't hold aggro very well?

 

Is it elitism when I kick the healer out of my group because he can't heal very well?

 

Is it elitism when I kick the idiot out of my group because he can't stop breaking CC's?

 

Is it elitism when I kick the person on interrupt duty because he isn't doing his part?

 

 

Why is it elitism when I kick a dps character for not being good at DPS?

 

Why is DPS the only class that should have his performance obfuscated from the rest of the Group? Without damage meters, the only person who can see the success of a DPS class is the person playing it. How is that fair to the tank, who if he can't hold aggro the mobs run around and it's on everyone's screen, or to the healer, who if he can't heal people start dieing and it's on everyone's screen, or the CC player, who if he can't CC properly it's on everyone's screen?

 

Why should DPS characters be the only people whose performance is impossible to evaluate by the rest of the group?

 

And before you say, "did the mob die" please remember that there are at least 4 people in the group, even the tank can deal damage. That's a bad metric because most fights can be done with three healers and a tank, even though it would take a while it's possible. That's like saying that a tank that can only keep aggro for 50%+1 of the time is okay because the boss spends most of his time on the tank. Or like saying a healer that can only keep 3 out of 4 people alive in an encounter is okay because he can keep most of the group alive.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Kenmuir

[Hyde_v]

I have NEVER seen anybody being kicked out of current-style cataclysm heroic because they were doing low dps, simply because the content is extremely easy.

 

You haven't? And what game were you playing at the time?

 

The Looking For Raid tool was introduced to WoW in patch 4.3. It allows players to access three endgame instances that have their difficulty set below normal. And within two weeks of it's release, there were already people complaining both in the game and on the forums about people with low DPS.

 

And frankly, if the developers are not mindful of their own creation in knowing what class is doing the most DPS and which is not, then that is a problem on their end and the game is doomed to fail.

[Hyde_v]

For all of you against Damage Meters, can you answer the following questions without being a hypocrite?

 

Is it elitism when I kick the tank out of my group because he can't hold aggro very well?

 

Is it elitism when I kick the healer out of my group because he can't heal very well?

 

Is it elitism when I kick the idiot out of my group because he can't stop breaking CC's?

 

Is it elitism when I kick the person on interrupt duty because he isn't doing his part?

 

Why is it elitism when I kick a dps character for not being good at DPS?

 

Because DPS roles are somewhat variable while the role of the tank and the healer have very specific purposes.

 

I personally believe there is a difference between "enough DPS" and "maximum DPS." If a baseball player could not hit the ball even if he stood four feet from the pitcher but still caught every fly ball hit towards him, I'm not going to kick him off the team. I might suggest he work on his hitting game but I will not just write him off for low hit percentage.

 

Many people claim that low DPS "brings them down." It goes back to the "It took three minutes instead of two minutes forty-five seconds for the mob to die." Does that really make that much of a difference? The other problem is that many players set the bar too high. If the maximum DPS a class can do is 9000 and someone is doing 8400, too many players say "Your DPS is bad" and kick that player out. Someone doing 2000 DPS, in my opinion, would be "bad." But too many are not making that distinction. "My damage meter says you are not doing the same amount of DPS I am doing or what I think it should be so you are not good enough."

 

And what if the player is trying to learn? You can read all the internet theory crafting sites and guides you want. Until you get in there and actually PLAY THE GAME, you aren't going to be the best at anything. Hell, I know the rules of football. That doesn't mean I could try out for the Dallas Cowboys and be guarenteed a spot on the team.

 

If people in this game want a damage meter, then let it read ONLY your numbers. No one elses. Then, if your fellow players want to share their numbers with each other, let them. But believe me when I say that these addons will be abused and used to quickly put a divide in to the community. The next thing you know, Bioware will have to have meetings to discuss whether or not they can justify spending time and resources on designing content that only 10% or less of their player base will see.

[Kenmuir]

Because DPS roles are somewhat variable while the role of the tank and the healer have very specific purposes.

 

DPS roles aren't variable. Hence the Damage Per Second title to it. If you mean to say that CC is something that DPS also does, so can certain healers and tanks. I would assume you would have a problem with a healer that could CC well but couldn't keep the group alive.

 

I personally believe there is a difference between "enough DPS" and "maximum DPS." If a baseball player could not hit the ball even if he stood four feet from the pitcher but still caught every fly ball hit towards him, I'm not going to kick him off the team. I might suggest he work on his hitting game but I will not just write him off for low hit percentage.

 

Why should you be allowed to dictate how other players want to set up their own team? Because you would do it one way everyone else has to? What if I want to play with someone who can hit the ball and field well? What if everyone else on the team also wants that? Should we be forced to play by your rules?

 

 

Many people claim that low DPS "brings them down." It goes back to the "It took three minutes instead of two minutes forty-five seconds for the mob to die." Does that really make that much of a difference?

 

In some instances there's this thing called an enrage mechanic. So yes it can make a difference. Before you say enrage mechanics are a bad design, please tell me how you would create an encounter that demanded good play from a DPS class and only a DPS in such a way that the entire group can observe it.

 

Also, you have to extrapolate that 15 seconds to all of the fights in an instance. With low DPS you can go from a 30 minute instance to a 45 minute instance. Why should the other 3 players have to spend an extra 15 minutes doing an instance they could have done in a shorter amount of time because one of the players isn't conserned about doing his part to the best that the class can?

 

Does bad tanking "bring the team down"? Does bad healing "bring the team down"? Does bad CC management "bring the team down"? I would say yes to all of those questions, but for some reason you would say that bad DPS doesn't. So what separates the DPS role from the others?

 

The other problem is that many players set the bar too high. If the maximum DPS a class can do is 9000 and someone is doing 8400, too many players say "Your DPS is bad" and kick that player out. Someone doing 2000 DPS, in my opinion, would be "bad."

 

 

Why should everyone else be forced to play the way you want? Why is it a problem that a group of players sets the bar high? Why can't a group of players come together and decide that they only want to play with people who meet a certain standard?

 

But too many are not making that distinction. "My damage meter says you are not doing the same amount of DPS I am doing or what I think it should be so you are not good enough."

 

What's the problem? People kick tanks from a group that fail to hold aggro. People kick healers from a group that fail to keep the group alive. People kick players who fail at CC management. Why should DPS characters not be held to the same standards?

 

And what if the player is trying to learn?

 

Why is he doing it with the time that other players are putting into the game? What if someone doesn't want to play with someone who is learning the Game? Why should they be forced to play with a newbie?

 

 

You can read all the internet theory crafting sites and guides you want. Until you get in there and actually PLAY THE GAME, you aren't going to be the best at anything. Hell, I know the rules of football. That doesn't mean I could try out for the Dallas Cowboys and be guarenteed a spot on the team.

 

Then don't try and join a group that has very high standards for a DPS class if you can't do it. But then again you probably don't see the hypocrisy in this post.

 

If people in this game want a damage meter, then let it read ONLY your numbers. No one elses.

 

Why should it be private? Is the tank's ability to hold aggro private? Is the healer's ability to keep the group alive private? Is CC management private? Why is DPS the only role that should have their performance obfuscated from the rest of the group and how is that fair to the other players?

 

 

Then, if your fellow players want to share their numbers with each other, let them. But believe me when I say that these addons will be abused and used to quickly put a divide in to the community.

 

Assertion of fact without evidence. The chat is also abused every minute of the game in some place, yet no one is saying it should be removed.

 

Would the divide be as great as the difference between hardcore guilds that set up out of game combat parsers than casual guilds that don't? I think it would be less, by preventing the ease of use of a manageable combat log(AKA Damage Meters) the difference between Hardcore and casual would become even greater. And IMO you would force the player base into cliques, because you might be less likely to invite someone you don't know especially if you have no way of seeing how well they perform(But only DPS classes if you don't allow Damage Meters, with the other roles in the group I can observe on my screen how well they perform).

 

So again I'll ask: what separates the DPS role from the rest of the roles in the game?

 

The next thing you know, Bioware will have to have meetings to discuss whether or not they can justify spending time and resources on designing content that only 10% or less of their player base will see.

 

Assertion of fact without evidence. What do addons have to do with people seeing content? There are multiple modes of difficulty for each instance. If you want to do the harder instances you should be expected to perform better than in the easier instances.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Kenmuir

[Anuga]

"N3RD Alert"!

 

I've been monitering the data flow while in combat, and like someone pointed out in the beginning of the thread, there is no "Combat Log" (WoW Reference)

 

However, since you can specify that you want your damage, healing etc. to popup everywhere on the screen during combat, that's a big indicator that Combat Log will be available shortly.

 

Also, if you monitor the Memory Cache / Process, there are also references to what is needed to make a parser to create a DPS Meter out of game.

(Damage and Healing Numbers are shown in the Memory Cache / Process of SWTOR)

 

I'm already cooking up a site for dps/healing/kills etc, much like Worldoflogs.com. Only Better!

 

Enough N3RD'ness. Happy Gaming 2012!

[Ryvirath]

There's absolutely no reason aside from laziness that you can't just math out the max DPS builds and rotations if min/max is your thing. The game already gives you the numbers and percentages. For outliers you'd just need a few baseline results. It's really not that complicated; there's maybe 10 variables and none of them extend beyond your basic arithmetic functions. It's an argument of convenience, not personal growth. If it was personal growth you'd find the numbers and figure it out yourself rather then wait for someone to make a mod or the devs to include a combat log. I think I could care less either way, but to argue it provides some otherwise impossible to achieve data and thus the only way to achieve growth as a dps class is absurd.

[oblongship]

are we ever getting them atleast?

 

no no no no no no no no no

 

please for the love of all that is good no!

[SlickDevlan]

There's absolutely no reason aside from laziness that you can't just math out the max DPS builds and rotations if min/max is your thing. The game already gives you the numbers and percentages. For outliers you'd just need a few baseline results. It's really not that complicated; there's maybe 10 variables and none of them extend beyond your basic arithmetic functions. It's an argument of convenience, not personal growth. If it was personal growth you'd find the numbers and figure it out yourself rather then wait for someone to make a mod or the devs to include a combat log. I think I could care less either way, but to argue it provides some otherwise impossible to achieve data and thus the only way to achieve growth as a dps class is absurd.

 

That's like saying we shouldn't use computers to run astrophysics simulations...

 

There is no reason not to have a dps meter. If you are so terrified of playing with *GASP* "elitist" players, guess what, you can simply choose not to play with them.

[Hyde_v]

Good grief, Kenmuir. Do you even realize how hostile and negetive you come off?

 

DPS roles aren't variable. Hence the Damage Per Second title to it. If you mean to say that CC is something that DPS also does, so can certain healers and tanks. I would assume you would have a problem with a healer that could CC well but couldn't keep the group alive.

DPS is variable. Not every player or every class is going to do the same amount of DPS. It could be the player, it could be the mechanics of the class, it's variable. Tanks have to hold aggro. Healers have to heal. Tanks and healers have no leeway in their roles. DPS is there to do damage. They might do a whole lot of damage or they might do less damage.

 

 

Why should you be allowed to dictate how other players want to set up their own team? Because you would do it one way everyone else has to? What if I want to play with someone who can hit the ball and field well? What if everyone else on the team also wants that? Should we be forced to play by your rules?

Where did I say that people had to play the game by my rules? In fact, you ask me that several times in your post. Quote where I said that. Show me where I said that. And you really should not tell me what I mean by assuming.

 

 

In some instances there's this thing called an enrage mechanic. So yes it can make a difference. Before you say enrage mechanics are a bad design, please tell me how you would create an encounter that demanded good play from a DPS class and only a DPS in such a way that the entire group can observe it.

In this case, I will agree. I failed to mention enrage mechanics. In that case, yes, DPS is needed to kill the boss before it reaches it's enrage timer and kills the entire party. If a boss does not have an enrage timer, the amount of time it takes to kill the boss isn't really a factor unless it becomes ridiculously long. Usually, only someone who is trying to be disruptive will play in that manner.

 

Also, you have to extrapolate that 15 seconds to all of the fights in an instance. With low DPS you can go from a 30 minute instance to a 45 minute instance. Why should the other 3 players have to spend an extra 15 minutes doing an instance they could have done in a shorter amount of time because one of the players isn't conserned about doing his part to the best that the class can?

Only if someone is playing with the intention of being disruptive does this situation come about under normal circumstances.

 

Why should everyone else be forced to play the way you want? Why is it a problem that a group of players sets the bar high? Why can't a group of players come together and decide that they only want to play with people who meet a certain standard?

And thus the divide begins.

 

Then don't try and join a group that has very high standards for a DPS class if you can't do it. But then again you probably don't see the hypocrisy in this post.

Because then only those folk who demand high standards see content. This is EXACTLY how it was during the Burning Crusade expansion on WoW. "We do not THINK you are good enough so you can't go." It was not the developers telling me I could not play the Black Temple. IT. WAS. THE. PLAYERS. SAYING. THAT. And by golly, since I could not run Black Temple by myself, I could not go. And you know what? When I finally was able to run Black Temple some months later, I found that I absolutely could have run that instance and played just fine once I had learned the encounters. But because some "holier-than-thou" player said I could not go, I could not go.

 

I had started to reply to the other portions of your post. But frankly, it would be futile. You appear to be dead set on judging your fellow players and kicking them out if they do not perform up to your expectations. It does not appear you play on my server so I won't have to play the game with you. Enjoy your time in Star Wars.

[PinnyFox]

No.

 

There's more to the game than stroking your e-ego over how much damage you did. Don't you get enough of it from PVP and all your "OH YEAH I DID 250k TOTAL DAMAGE X CLASS ISN'T UNDERPOWERED AT ALL!" rants?

[Arkulin]

.....the game's lead combat designer Georg Zoeller in which he suggested that some new features will be coming to the game post-launch for those who want to ensure they're getting the most out of their character builds. During the talk, Zoeller claimed that combat log parsing and other such performance analysis features were "very high on [bioWare's] priority list.:D:D

[Kenmuir]

DPS is variable. Not every player or every class is going to do the same amount of DPS. It could be the player, it could be the mechanics of the class, it's variable.

 

Tanking is variable. Not every player or every class is going to hold the same amount of aggro. It could be the player, it could be the mechanics of the class, it's variable.

 

Healing is variable. Not every player or every class is going to heal the same amount of damage. It could be the player, it could be the mechanics of the class, it's variable.

 

Tanks have to hold aggro. Healers have to heal. Tanks and healers have no leeway in their roles.

 

DPS players have to deal damage, they have no leeway in their roles.

 

 

DPS is there to do damage. They might do a whole lot of damage or they might do less damage.

 

Tanks are there to hold aggro, they might hold a lot or a little.

 

Healers are there to heal damage, they might heal a lot or a little.

 

 

Where did I say that people had to play the game by my rules? In fact, you ask me that several times in your post. Quote where I said that. Show me where I said that. And you really should not tell me what I mean by assuming.

 

The part where you don't want damage meters because of "these addons will be abused and used to quickly put a divide in to the community." Or when you complain about people being "unfairly" kicked from groups.

 

 

In this case, I will agree. I failed to mention enrage mechanics. In that case, yes, DPS is needed to kill the boss before it reaches it's enrage timer and kills the entire party. If a boss does not have an enrage timer, the amount of time it takes to kill the boss isn't really a factor unless it becomes ridiculously long. Usually, only someone who is trying to be disruptive will play in that manner.

 

The time other people spend in the game doesn't matter? Are you really that selfish or did you not remember that all instances are done with a group, meaning your performance does impact other people.

 

If the time it takes to kill a boss doesn't matter(the job of the DPS player), does who the boss hits with his damage matter(the job of the Tank player), does the amount of life the group has matter(the job of the Healer)? Why is the DPS different from the other two?

 

 

Only if someone is playing with the intention of being disruptive does this situation come about under normal circumstances.

 

I would argue that most people who deal low dps aren't doing it to be disruptive, especially if they have no way of accurately monitoring they own performance.

 

And thus the divide begins.

 

What's the problem? Why shouldn't people be allowed to do that?

 

 

Because then only those folk who demand high standards see content. This is EXACTLY how it was during the Burning Crusade expansion on WoW. "We do not THINK you are good enough so you can't go." It was not the developers telling me I could not play the Black Temple. IT. WAS. THE. PLAYERS. SAYING. THAT. And by golly, since I could not run Black Temple by myself, I could not go. And you know what? When I finally was able to run Black Temple some months later, I found that I absolutely could have run that instance and played just fine once I had learned the encounters. But because some "holier-than-thou" player said I could not go, I could not go.

 

It's the damage meter's fault that you couldn't find a group to run an instance with? But then again, how would you have proved that you could actually do what they were asking you to do without a DPS meter? Pinkie-Promise that you deal 95% of possible damage?

 

So what if some players don't want to play with you? Why is that a bad thing? Should they have been forced to take you in their group?

 

 

I had started to reply to the other portions of your post. But frankly, it would be futile. You appear to be dead set on judging your fellow players and kicking them out if they do not perform up to your expectations. It does not appear you play on my server so I won't have to play the game with you. Enjoy your time in Star Wars.

 

I can guarantee that you also judge players all of the time but don't realize it. Why shouldn't I be allowed to choose who I associate with, based on any standards I can come up with?

[DarthValkari]

Why do you want DPS meters ? Is it for Epeen ?

 

As long as the enemies die whats the problem ?

O.o

 

Ya know I have been playing MMOs since 1996 and I specialize in killing things exceptionally efficient, and maximizing my output. I have been the leading DPS in 4 different guilds one being a top 5 guild in WoW and a top 5 guild in EQ.

 

Sure its nice to be able to actually type what i just did and mean it without making up a single lie, that is one reason to have them as you suggest epeen, but the honest reason why you need them, is so people know what they are doing, sot hey know how to adjust their performance in order to get better results.

 

Some people require more then just what ever gets you past go, and some guilds absolutely require it, especially if content is going to push players to the very limits of what a character can do.

 

Have you ever heard the term, football is a game of inches? Well in MMOs the character that covers the most details wins.

[Hyde_v]

I can guarantee that you also judge players all of the time but don't realize it. Why shouldn't I be allowed to choose who I associate with, based on any standards I can come up with?

 

You make a lot of assumptions about someone you don't know. And I don't like people who do that.

 

I'm no longer replying to your posts. Stew in your anger.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Hyde_v

[Creep]

As much as you all say add-ons are for personal growth and getting the most out of your character, sorry but it rarely happens like that. You may use it that way, but most do not.

 

The elitists will always use it to berate the casual player to make themselves feel better. "You did 10 DPS less than me, you suck!!" Don't kid yourself and deny that it happens.

 

This next part is gonna make you some of you rage, but I'm going to say it anyway. Add-ons are a crutch. You need to download something extra to compete? Maybe you might be the bad player. Think about that.

 

Seriously, a mod that holds your hand and tells you when the boss is going to do bad things to you? That was a required one for raiding guilds in WoW. Never used add-ons in WoW and did fine, don't need them or the type of people that use them here.

 

I wouldn't be this way if DPS meters didn't go hand in hand with horrible attitudes, but that's all I have ever seen. Heck, I might be all for them if people didn't act like stupid kids, but this is the internet after all.

 

But then again, I'm an older gamer who remembers when we played games for fun, not like they were second jobs. You kids get off my lawn! hehe

 

I need meters so I can keep people like you out my raids.

[Kenmuir]

You make a lot of assumptions about someone you don't know. And I don't like people who do that.

 

One assumption is not the same as a lot. Especially when it's an assumption that you are a human who uses a brain with pattern recognition.

 

I'm no longer replying to your posts.

 

Oh boy, i definitely didn't see this one coming. Where does you argument fall under the levels of good debating?

 

I think it falls under the "ad hominem" or "responding to the tone." It's most certainly not "refuting the central point." Hence it could be say that you are making a bad agrument.

 

Stew in your anger.

 

Do you see the hypocrisy of refusing to debate with someone because he made an assumption about you, in this case it was simply that you were human, and then leaving a debate with a one-liner that's an assumption?

 

But in case you were really concerned, I'm not mad.

[Vetiver]

TLDR: If you think meters aren't a useful tool you're being complacent and selfish. You're right, they do change the social dynamic of MMOs: I'm here to explain why I think this change is a good thing.

 

Damage meters are not harmful for an MMO community. If anything, they reinforce an ability to play with like-minded players and increase the pace of game update cycles to make sure the product being delivered to the playership is the best possible experience the dev team has to offer. They also expose balance flaws that many not be visible without them.

 

Several of you have expressed fears that DPS/TPS/HPS meters will pigeonhole you into specific class roles - to this I ask, have you ever played another MMO? In World of Warcraft 1.X When Molten Core and Onyxia were the be all, end all of raiding, you're right; there was absolutely no specialization. However, this issue was rectified by Blizzard as they continuously updated classes with massive overhauls (Remember how bad Warlocks were pre-revamp?) In the Onyxia days, you didn't get into raids as a shadow priest, tank paladin, or non-combat rogue; You DEFINITELY didn't get invites as a feral druid, arcane mage, or retribution paladin. Be mindful, though - this wasn't because a sinister elitist "1%" of Hardcore gamers believed you to be a worthless, untrainable raider; it was because the classes were BROKEN. As these specs were brought into line with the others, more options opened up. As a player who enjoyed WoW through its awkward adolescence into maturity as an MMO, I was extremely relieved that by Wrath I could play a bear druid tank and as long as I was good, people would play with me.

 

I'm not selfish for wanting to be the best I can be. I'm not selfish for having an unending desire to experiment with my class and contribute to the public knowledge base about what works and what doesn't. I can do these things without meters, but they sure do help. By advocating against damage meters and the like, it is you who are being selfish. You are saying to the rest of us that care about our performance, "I am good enough." I'm here telling you that you aren't. There isn't a ceiling on skill in MMOs, for PVP or PVE. Stop being complacent. Keep getting better. Casual gamers are the bread and butter of every MMO - there simply isn't enough time in a day to play WoW or TOR or any MMO at the bleeding edge of content and also function in real life. That being said, I consider myself pretty casual compared to my past WoW raiding days; however, my time is no less limited now than it was then. I don't have time to play with you if you can't keep up with me, so why make me?

 

The back and forth on this thread alone should hearten you that you are not alone in desiring a meter-free experience for TOR. Fortunately, Addons are exactly that: ADD ONS. They enhance the game experience - not for all, but for those who willfully install them and enjoy their use. They aren't mandatory, and never were. If you don't want to use them, don't; all we are asking for is the option to do so.

 

The early life of an MMO is important to its success - no beta test can properly predict the interesting and complicated balance, server load, and social problems that arise when you populate a virtual world with thousands upon thousands of people. By adding meters, we are making the game more transparent and making it easier to provide feedback on the already outstanding game that Bioware had delivered to us.

 

I'm not going to pout if we don't get damage meters or addons; I don't need them. No one does, and no one did. Even without them, I'll probably still be better than you. I'm not worried about finding players who are like-minded and driven to not suck - play an MMO for long enough and you get an eye for these things.

 

If it makes me an elitist to have low tolerance for people who make the same mistake over and over, then I sure as hell am an elitist. Damn proud to be one too. I don't expect you to want to play with me if you don't feel the same way, and guess what? I don't want to play with you either. Lets make this easier for both of us and make our differences of opinion more transparent.

 

 

EDIT: I suppose I should have signed -

Sincerely,

 

An experienced hardcore (World 14th Vanilla Naxx) and casual (everything after, raiding once a week max) MMO player of SWG pre-NGE/CU, EQ, and of course WoW

Edited January 2, 2012 by Vetiver

[Warjak]

Fraps is a good dps meter.

[Kenmuir]

Fraps is a good dps meter.

 

What if I already have bad FPS in this game, and running Fraps makes it almost unplayable?

 

Why should only people who can run fraps without having it impact their game be able to have a dps meter? How is it fair to segregate the community based on the hardware on their computer?

[Kelticfury]

What if I already have bad FPS in this game, and running Fraps makes it almost unplayable?

 

Why should only people who can run fraps without having it impact their game be able to have a dps meter? How is it fair to segregate the community based on the hardware on their computer?

 

Why should a dps meter segregate the community into so called bads and leets?

 

Besides, this isn't wow, you can be dps and heals, so where does that leave you? Gonna kick your healer because he isn't dpsing enough? You can see who is slacking off just by paying attention, there is no auto attack in swtor, so if you can't spot someone not pulling their weight, you need new glasses.

 

Get over your dependence on wow crutches.

[Ursleye]

I am kinda on the fence with this one, yes a dps meter would be nice to perfect rotations etc, but I can see people having to re-spec out of utility/different role because of lower dps (even if they are a min/max'er) it's just the spec that cant pull as much deeps.

 

I would rarther a target droid on the fleet (or home world) which would give you a damage reading when you hit it, but nothing in grps*

 

*damage reading not dps so you can run a few rotations and see how much damage you have done, change a few things and run the same amount of rotations, granted RNG etc. etc. but it would give you an idea on how hard you are hitting.

 

plus a target droid kinda fits with the lore