DISCUSSION: Does the EMP missile pack a believable punch?

[Sidenti]

I love my Pike. Took her back outta the mothballs after mastering her to load her out with EMP missiles. Mastered 'em up to T5. Practiced with 'em extensively on mismatches so I could get my timing down, learn proper launch angles and distances, etc.

 

I am left with the impression that I wasted a pile of requisition.

 

The EMP missile is, first and foremost, a missile. Most missiles I've seen armed for war pack at least a little bit of an explosive wallop because, y'know, war. Stuff needs to blow up and be destroyed in war. It's kind of a staple.

 

On T5, I barely blow up 50% of the mines in a bomberball, and the drones they claim to disable don't seem to stay disabled for an appreciable amount of time. Hell, all my Sniper or Smuggler has to do is press a few hidden buttons on his wrist and either can completely mess up a complex droid for 60 seconds.

 

Otherwise, I feel there is a good balance to the fully-upgraded EMP missile. It's got acceptable range for a missile at 7700m. The area of effect really does help with bomberballs who like to cluster around chokepoints. But it doesn't seem like any of that matters if the missile itself doesn't do a whole helluva lot, and it really seems like the EMP missile should be more effective than it is.

 

What do you guys think about the EMP missile? -bp

[Armonddd]

Probably best used not on drones or mines but on enemy gunships so they can't barrel roll away from you.

 

Of course, any decent gunship will barrel roll before you launch the missile, so.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Armonddd

[Verain]

I love my Pike. Took her back outta the mothballs after mastering her to load her out with EMP missiles. Mastered 'em up to T5. Practiced with 'em extensively on mismatches so I could get my timing down, learn proper launch angles and distances, etc.

 

I am left with the impression that I wasted a pile of requisition.

 

I wouldn't say waste. They do have their roles.

 

 

The EMP missile is, first and foremost, a missile. Most missiles I've seen armed for war pack at least a little bit of an explosive wallop because, y'know, war. Stuff needs to blow up and be destroyed in war. It's kind of a staple.

 

The EMP missile does explode though. It hits everything in a range for about half of a proton torp.

 

On T5, I barely blow up 50% of the mines in a bomberball, and the drones they claim to disable don't seem to stay disabled for an appreciable amount of time. Hell, all my Sniper or Smuggler has to do is press a few hidden buttons on his wrist and either can completely mess up a complex droid for 60 seconds.

 

If you want to talk lore, note that your Sniper is within 30 meters, not 7000 meters.

 

But you are correct- none of the EMP blasts are effective against bombers, certainly not more than one bomber.

 

Otherwise, I feel there is a good balance to the fully-upgraded EMP missile. It's got acceptable range for a missile at 7700m. The area of effect really does help with bomberballs who like to cluster around chokepoints. But it doesn't seem like any of that matters if the missile itself doesn't do a whole helluva lot, and it really seems like the EMP missile should be more effective than it is.

 

What do you guys think about the EMP missile? -bp

 

 

I sort of like it. It's supposed to be niche. But I think that there should be two blasts on both EMPs- a blue one that has the effect on ships, and a red one that effects drones and mines. This could make the red one much larger, such that it can actually clear minefields (similar with the scout EMP).

 

 

The ability to lock down engine components is a pretty big deal, but being that you have to hit with a missile to hit with a missile, it doesn't share the same utility as the scout trick. I wouldn't recommend just targeting gunships with it (if you have the ability to hit a gunship with a missile, EMP is a fine call, but so is any other missile), but rather, anything that will actually take the blast especially if near enemies. Note that the Type 1 Gunships have two missile breaks.

[pzarr]

 

I sort of like it. It's supposed to be niche. But I think that there should be two blasts on both EMPs- a blue one that has the effect on ships, and a red one that effects drones and mines. This could make the red one much larger, such that it can actually clear minefields (similar with the scout EMP).

 

The thing that bothers me about EMP missiles is you're sacrificing one of the other missiles which imo are more useful. i ran them for awhile upgraded a few tiers and I feel they're TOO niche. I could run EMP and Cluster or Conc on the off-chance I a.) am in a KoTH match and b.) dealing with heavy bomber clusters, or run cluster/conc to quickly mow through opponents at close range and nail opponents at long range/win jousts.

[Delta_V]

Probably best used not on drones or mines but on enemy gunships so they can't barrel roll away from you.

 

Of course, any decent gunship will barrel roll before you launch the missile, so.

 

Against a single target, the engine lockdown is pretty useless, because EMP Missiles have the exact same lock-on characteristics as Concussion Missiles. That means that if a target doesn't evade the EMP, you could have just hit them with a Concussion instead, which does far more damage while also applying a slow. Since by the time I get a lock with Concussion Missiles I'm usually already hitting them with Heavy Lasers, if the Concussion Missile lands, they're pretty much dead. So why bother hitting them with an EMP first, if you could just hit them with another missile instead?

 

The only time I'd say the engine lockdown on EMP Missiles is particularly useful is when you can catch multiple enemies with it. EMP Field on the other hand, can't be evaded once you're in range, making it much more useful against a single target.

 

 

 

The EMP missile does explode though. It hits everything in a range for about half of a proton torp.

 

What? EMP Missiles hit the primary target for 362, compared to 872 for a ProTorp. However, the AOE only does 50% damage, or about 181, to everything else. It's not even close to half a ProTorp. Basically, against everything except mines, the damage from the AOE is insignificant.

[Zharik]

If you are using EMP missiles against fighters (other than bombers), you are doing it wrong. If you use it to force the other ship types to make them "waste" a missile evasion maneuver, then ok. EMP missiles are NOT meant to do massive damage. But in a huge cluster of mines/drones, they do end up with massive numbers.

 

They work wonders attacking a satellite, especially when defended with bomber(s). I recommend pairing them with concussion missiles on the Pike/Quell, but I really would shy away from using them on a T1 Striker.

 

Target something that cannot evade from 7200 (ish) meters, and use cover to protect yourself. They hit all turrets around a satellite if you target one of those and stop them from firing at you for quite a while (long enough to take out 3 turrets if there are no other defenders).

[QuinMantha]

I think for the time it takes to lock on, it should have a little more 'oomph'.

 

Then again, I run EMPs and Clusters on my Pike, so, I either go with 'really short lock-on funness' or 'drool-inducing, brain-vaporizingly long lock-on awfulness', and I don't give up the latter because I hate really good Bomber pilots.

[Morgrid]

If you are using EMP missiles against fighters (other than bombers), you are doing it wrong. If you use it to force the other ship types to make them "waste" a missile evasion maneuver, then ok. EMP missiles are NOT meant to do massive damage. But in a huge cluster of mines/drones, they do end up with massive numbers.

 

They work wonders attacking a satellite, especially when defended with bomber(s). I recommend pairing them with concussion missiles on the Pike/Quell, but I really would shy away from using them on a T1 Striker.

 

Target something that cannot evade from 7200 (ish) meters, and use cover to protect yourself. They hit all turrets around a satellite if you target one of those and stop them from firing at you for quite a while (long enough to take out 3 turrets if there are no other defenders).

 

I love using them on scouts. No system abilities. No engine abilities.

 

Nothing but a free kill for those on my team.

[Delta_V]

I love using them on scouts. No system abilities. No engine abilities.

 

Nothing but a free kill for those on my team.

 

Yeah, but if you *somehow* hit a Scout w/ an EMP missile, you could have hit them with a Concussion Missile instead, and a Scout that gets hit w/ a Conc Missile is as good as dead.

[Zharik]

Yeah, but if you *somehow* hit a Scout w/ an EMP missile, you could have hit them with a Concussion Missile instead, and a Scout that gets hit w/ a Conc Missile is as good as dead.

 

Quit thinking *inside* the box... maybe you hit the bomber, or turret, or etc with the EMP and the scout was in the blast radius.

 

Will a good scout/strike/gunship pilot ever get hit by an EMP missile? YES! When they are the scout/strike/gunship using the bomber's drones/mines for cover they will, if you are smart...

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I think for the time it takes to lock on, it should have a little more 'oomph'.

 

at least enough to destroy both mines and drones. Their inability to clear a dronefield is the one thing that bothers me about EMPs.

[Zharik]

at least enough to destroy both mines and drones. Their inability to clear a dronefield is the one thing that bothers me about EMPs.

 

So that doesn't seem OP to you?!? 1 thing that can counter an unlimited number of drones/mines in a large AOE (like an entire satellite area large).

 

Why not ask for the scout's EMP pulse to do 500 hull damage too, while you are at it.

[Zharik]

I think for the time it takes to lock on, it should have a little more 'oomph'.

 

Well I'd rather see a reduction in its lock on time, than to boost its (100% shield piercing) damage...

[Sidenti]

So that doesn't seem OP to you?!? 1 thing that can counter an unlimited number of drones/mines in a large AOE (like an entire satellite area large).

 

Why not ask for the scout's EMP pulse to do 500 hull damage too, while you are at it.

 

Keeping in mind, of course, that the blast radius isn't all that wide. It would only affect densely-packed minefields, which would force an adaptation of tactics. It would no longer be so simple as packing a chokepoint with several drones and mines in TDM to back a flotilla of gunships as soon as a lead is established.

 

I get the impression that's what the EMP abilities are there to attempt to prevent, but they're just not effective at doing so at the ranges provided in my personal experience. Hence the discussion topic. -bp

[Anderofindel]

So that doesn't seem OP to you?!? 1 thing that can counter an unlimited number of drones/mines in a large AOE (like an entire satellite area large).

 

Why not ask for the scout's EMP pulse to do 500 hull damage too, while you are at it.

 

Found the bomber pilot.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Anderofindel

[Morgrid]

Found the bomber pilot.

 

Actually, I'm the bomber pilot here, and while I have zero problems with the current EMP weapons killing mines flat out and almost killing off drones, the missiles would be overpowered if they could destroy drones in one hit as well as disabling the engine and system abilities of anyone caught in the blast.

 

That and being able to destroy minute long cooldowns with a missile that can be fired every ~15 seconds and effects everything in a large radius would indeed be some serious BS.

[Morgrid]

Actually, I'm the bomber pilot here, and while I have zero problems with the current EMP weapons killing mines flat out and almost killing off drones, the missiles would be overpowered if they could destroy drones in one hit as well as disabling the engine and system abilities of anyone caught in the blast.

 

That and being able to destroy minute long cooldowns with a missile that can be fired every ~15 seconds and effects everything in a large radius would indeed be some serious BS.

 

Edit: Add another kilometer to the range of the EMP missiles please. That, or rename them EMP torpedoes and give them a range of 10k.

[Zharik]

Found the bomber pilot.

 

I've mastered both types of scouts (5 total ships across 3 characters that fly), both types of strike fighters (3 total), the T1 gunship, but no bombers yet. So I consider myself a pilot.

 

I'm just realistic about the balance and oh yeah, all 3 of my Pikes/Quells use T5 EMP Missiles... Because they are quite useful now... make them 1 shot an entire minefield and they'd be ridiculous.

 

Not every ability that you use should be about direct damage; some are about support, control, and/or defense.

[Armonddd]

So that doesn't seem OP to you?!? 1 thing that can counter an unlimited number of drones/mines in a large AOE (like an entire satellite area large).

 

Why not ask for the scout's EMP pulse to do 500 hull damage too, while you are at it.

 

I... eh, I dunno. The current AoE is kind of... mediocre? Especially given that you're sitting almost dead still for three seconds to get that lock.

 

I agree that the best course is probably to reduce the lock-on time, but I kind of feel like the devs want three seconds to be the "default" lock-on time, so I don't know if we'll get that.

 

Actually, what I'd really like is if they were dead-fire like rocket pods and automatically exploded at max range or when they get within, say, 100 meters of a target, with a significantly reduced effect if they don't actually hit something. Give them a fifteen second cooldown to compensate for the lack of lock-on time, but also give them something like 300% accuracy and zero tracking penalties so you don't have to worry about evasion screwing things up. Playtesting might show that you also need to reduce the firing arc to 15 degrees or so, I dunno.

 

That way, they're easier to learn to use, but require more skill to use properly, especially if you don't use them against mines and drones.

 

I also like Verain's idea of a red explosion to go with the current blue one. The red explosion would be bigger and would only affect mines and drones (which have simpler electronics and fewer ECCM systems installed, justifying the increased radius), while the blue one would affect player ships only and do the whole systems disabling thing.

 

I could see combining the two ideas, if a missed shot had no blue explosion and a smaller red explosion.

[Zharik]

Agreed that the current AOE is "meh" but making EMP Missiles hit like a pro torp *should* hit (a small AOE at least, perhaps damage would scale lower as you reach its edges) is not the answer.

 

EMP missiles are a control "weapon", like the ion railgun is.

[Pilgrim_Grey]

Agreed that the current AOE is "meh" but making EMP Missiles hit like a pro torp *should* hit (a small AOE at least, perhaps damage would scale lower as you reach its edges) is not the answer.

 

EMP missiles are a control "weapon", like the ion railgun is.

 

Did I miss where someone was suggesting it hits like a ProTorp (I just skimmed again, sorry if I did). If you mean EMP reliably taking out drones, that's not on ProTorp levels. That's actually making the EMP worht it. If I knew that whatever mines and drones it hit would be destroyed, all its drawbacks are worth it. Because it's not a dogfighting weapon, and it needs something to make it worthwhile.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

So that doesn't seem OP to you?!? 1 thing that can counter an unlimited number of drones/mines in a large AOE (like an entire satellite area large).

 

Why not ask for the scout's EMP pulse to do 500 hull damage too, while you are at it.

 

it strikes me as powerful and allowing the EMP to do what it was designed for, not OP. Ideally it would implemented through a multiplier than only applied the extra damage to drones/mines but otherwise it would maintain the current damage it does to fighters. No one is forcing the bomber to pack everything as close together as possible and it would act as a hard counter to bombers locking down a sat by deploying as many mines/drones in as small a space as humanly possible. If necessary for balance shrink the AOE by 500 meters or so. Also this:

 

Keeping in mind, of course, that the blast radius isn't all that wide. It would only affect densely-packed minefields, which would force an adaptation of tactics. It would no longer be so simple as packing a chokepoint with several drones and mines in TDM to back a flotilla of gunships as soon as a lead is established.

 

I get the impression that's what the EMP abilities are there to attempt to prevent, but they're just not effective at doing so at the ranges provided in my personal experience. Hence the discussion topic. -bp

Edited March 29, 2014 by Gavin_Kelvar

[Degarmo]

Flying my Pike, I tend to use EMPs more for the engine-killing ability, but during Domination matches, I will throw them in there to mined-up satellites. Really though, that is only useful if you've got a couple folks willing to get in there and make a quick strafing run while I stay out at range and try to get a proton lock on the bomber.

 

The EMP missiles could pack a bit more punch, but you don't want to give them too much utility. I'd think the punch I'd prefer would be more reliable drone lockdown. It doesn't have to be a huge amount of time, perhaps an accuracy debuff, or, something.