Is it ethically right to play SwTOR?

[Kourage]

I still don't understand what the complaint is. OP doesn't understand what the word "ethical" means?

[ikinai]

I still don't understand what the complaint is. OP doesn't understand what the word "ethical" means?

 

Well, it wouldn't be ethical of any of us to correct the OP, as we humans tend to learn better by making a mistake than reading about others mistakes.

[Iyxeriu]

it's a way for them to make even more money

 

It's business, and in business there's no place for ethics I'm afraid.

 

Do i trust EA? hell no, it's in part thanks to their greed that this mmo didn't live up to its potential.

 

But the simple solution would be not to use the cartel market, or just use the coins you get for being a sub.

 

This is not something new, in other mmos you can purchase specialty items for real money, what EA/Bioware did is make them tradeable, and add more of the 'specialty items'.

 

Result? People buy more packs, with the hope of getting that super rare item, and sell the rest on the GTN for millions of credits.

 

The cartel market is there for 1 reason and 1 reason only, to make money, and considering that 5500 cartel coins cost around 39$ and you need 6900 to buy 1 interplanetary pack, if you do the math and consider the large amount of items on the GTN well, it would result that the Cartel Market actually brings in more money than actual subs.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Iyxeriu

[DarthTHC]

it's a way for them to make even more money

 

It's business, and in business there's no place for ethics I'm afraid.

 

Do i trust EA? hell no, it's in part thanks to their greed that this mmo didn't live up to its potential.

 

But the simple solution would be not to use the cartel market, or just use the coins you get for being a sub.

 

This is not something new, in other mmos you can purchase specialty items for real money, what EA/Bioware did is make them tradeable, and add more of the 'specialty items'.

 

Result? People buy more packs, with the hope of getting that super rare item, and sell the rest on the GTN for millions of credits.

 

The cartel market is there for 1 reason and 1 reason only, to make money, and considering that 5500 cartel coins cost around 39$ and you need 6900 to buy 1 interplanetary pack, if you do the math and consider the large amount of items on the GTN well, it would result that the Cartel Market actually brings in more money than actual subs.

 

Businesses have to attempt to make a profit. Those that fail to make a profit close and leave a bunch of people unemployed. Doing that would be unethical.

 

In some nations, publicly traded companies are required to put forth reasonable effort to be profitable. EA is a publicly traded company. There is nothing unethical about pursuing profit, pursuing a profit is both ethical and sometimes a legal requirement.

 

The people looking for big credits out of cartel packs aren't opening them. At least not if they've put even the slightest bit of research into it. They're posting them unopened to GTN.

 

Some people also buy cartel packs to support the game. They have the disposable income to do that, and they're happy to do it. They open the packs, enjoy the things they get, give some things to friends and guild mates, and sell others for a miserable cash-to-credit exchange rate. There's nothing unethical about that, either.

 

The reason the Cartel Market exists is to provide a way for people who want to pay more for the game to do so and get a little something back in return. In doing this, those very people effectively fund the "subscriptions" for all the F2P players and the portion of Premium players whose expenditures don't come close to $15 per month. There's nothing unethical about that, either.

 

The Cartel Market may well bring in more money than subscriptions. There's nothing unethical about that, either.

Edited March 26, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Iyxeriu]

Businesses have to attempt to make a profit. Those that fail to make a profit close and leave a bunch of people unemployed. Doing that would be unethical.

 

In some nations, publicly traded companies are required to put forth reasonable effort to be profitable. EA is a publicly traded company. There is nothing unethical about pursuing profit, pursuing a profit is both ethical and sometimes a legal requirement.

 

The people looking for big credits out of cartel packs aren't opening them. At least not if they've put even the slightest bit of research into it. They're posting them unopened to GTN.

 

Some people also buy cartel packs to support the game. They have the disposable income to do that, and they're happy to do it. They open the packs, enjoy the things they get, give some things to friends and guild mates, and sell others for a miserable cash-to-credit exchange rate. There's nothing unethical about that, either.

 

The reason the Cartel Market exists is to provide a way for people who want to pay more for the game to do so and get a little something back in return. In doing this, those very people effectively fund the "subscriptions" for all the F2P players and the portion of Premium players whose expenditures don't come close to $15 per month. There's nothing unethical about that, either.

 

The Cartel Market may well bring in more money than subscriptions. There's nothing unethical about that, either.

 

 

alot of valid points, but the reason the Cartel Market was invented was to provide a new money maker since the subs alone didnt do it.

 

A person such as myself can live without the 'speciality' items you get from the cartel market, because the prices are just too much, 1 month's worth of subscription for 5500 cartel coins which aren't enough to buy 1 interplanetary pack is way too much, for me anyway, others that can afford it are free to burn their money away.

 

With some looking around for the same price of 5500 cartel coins you can buy actual credits from a third party and go buy the item directly from the GTN, instead of just throwing real cash at the Cartel Market hoping to find that item in a pack, for us the consumer is more cost effective.

 

But ye, as a business looking just to make profits, the Cartel Market is a very good system, some businesses look to make both profits without ripping off the few customers they have when compared to other similar businesses in the market, EA is clearly not one of them (and i don't base this JUST from swtor, I base it on most of their other games)

[DarthTHC]

alot of valid points, but the reason the Cartel Market was invented was to provide a new money maker since the subs alone didnt do it.

 

A person such as myself can live without the 'speciality' items you get from the cartel market, because the prices are just too much, 1 month's worth of subscription for 5500 cartel coins which aren't enough to buy 1 interplanetary pack is way too much, for me anyway, others that can afford it are free to burn their money away.

 

With some looking around for the same price of 5500 cartel coins you can buy actual credits from a third party and go buy the item directly from the GTN, instead of just throwing real cash at the Cartel Market hoping to find that item in a pack, for us the consumer is more cost effective.

 

But ye, as a business looking just to make profits, the Cartel Market is a very good system, some businesses look to make both profits without ripping off the few customers they have when compared to other similar businesses in the market, EA is clearly not one of them (and i don't base this JUST from swtor, I base it on most of their other games)

 

Oh, one look at the changes to Madden over the past few years shows you that EA can be lazy and unimaginative.

 

But I don't think the BioWare team developing SWTOR are anything like that. They've put so many new features into this game that aren't CM fluff. One only has to go as far as the patch notes page, road map page, and the recent announcement of strongholds (especially guild flagships) to see that.

 

I don't think they're ripping off anyone with CM. A rip-off would require deception. We all know the prices. We all know the chances of getting something worth a massive amount of credits is exceedingly rare if we open the packs. There is no deception.

[Iyxeriu]

Oh, one look at the changes to Madden over the past few years shows you that EA can be lazy and unimaginative.

 

But I don't think the BioWare team developing SWTOR are anything like that. They've put so many new features into this game that aren't CM fluff. One only has to go as far as the patch notes page, road map page, and the recent announcement of strongholds (especially guild flagships) to see that.

 

I don't think they're ripping off anyone with CM. A rip-off would require deception. We all know the prices. We all know the chances of getting something worth a massive amount of credits is exceedingly rare if we open the packs. There is no deception.

 

 

I guess we can agree to disagree regarding this topic but in a polite manner.

 

I still believe that the prices are exceedingly expensive, especially for someone that already pays a monthly subscription fee, but like you said, it is their choice, as it is my choice not to support it.

[DarthTHC]

I guess we can agree to disagree regarding this topic but in a polite manner.

 

I still believe that the prices are exceedingly expensive, especially for someone that already pays a monthly subscription fee, but like you said, it is their choice, as it is my choice not to support it.

 

If "expensive" is unethical... is Lamborghini unethical? Tiffany's?

[TUXs]

Well, it wouldn't be ethical of any of us to correct the OP, as we humans tend to learn better by making a mistake than reading about others mistakes.

If we truly learned from our mistakes, I'd be Einstein by now

[ikinai]

...Tiffany's?

 

Yes, have you seen some of the objet d'art they consider fashionable? That's unethical.

[Khevar]

Yes, have you seen some of the objet d'art they consider fashionable? That's unethical.

My friend's 4-year-old got kicked out of the store for unremitting giggling at some of their art.

 

Edit: Oohhh. That sounds like a great level 57 ability for the next expansion: "Unremitting Giggling" It angers your opponent causing a 15% accuracy debuff, but a 3% rage damage increase.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Khevar

[ikinai]

My friend's 4-year-old got kicked out of the store for unremitting giggling at some of their art.

 

See, even a 4-year old knows better

[Nydus]

Yes. And now lets close this thread please .

[tharbison]

With some looking around for the same price of 5500 cartel coins you can buy actual credits from a third party and go buy the item directly from the GTN, instead of just throwing real cash at the Cartel Market hoping to find that item in a pack, for us the consumer is more cost effective.

 

Hmm isn't this unethical?! And break the terms of the EULA?

[Thoronmir]

I'm going back to (my paraphrasing of) this thread's original premise: That BW controls the ebb and flow of "desirable" Cartel items in an effort to artificially inflate GTN prices, thus encouraging players to try to acquire these "desirable" items via the CM rather than the GTN, thus boosting BW's CM sales revenue. The OP accepts this baseless premise and then questions whether supporting this franchise is "ethical." The OP seems to want a direct response with little or no analysis, so here it is: Yes, playing SWTOR is completely ethical. See how easy that is? I hope the OP can sleep better now. I note that the key trigger word in the quote relied upon by the OP is "desired" ... not "necessary" ... not "required" ... not "gotta-have-it-or-the-game-won't-work" ... but "desired" dye colors. DYES! How did this thread last so many pages?

[ikinai]

... How did this thread last so many pages?

 

Bored office workers.

[Iyxeriu]

Hmm isn't this unethical?! And break the terms of the EULA?

 

 

why would it be unethical for someone to save their own money?

 

I'm not arguing the ethics of this, because at the end of the day so called 'ethics' are subject to interpretation and what seems ethical to you and me would not be ethical for someone else.

 

What i said in this thread is simply pointing out that the cartel market is a money maker, even more so than subs, from my point of view it is a rip off, yes, I enjoy other things in the game so it doesn't affect me as much, might be why it was simple for me to just not use it, but I simply wanted to point out that for 5500 cartel coins (and than some) for Pack 1 that contains item X you can just go and buy credits (which would be cheaper) and buy item X from the GTN.

 

Unless of course you're super lucky and managed to find the desired item right away.

 

Like I discussed earlier with another user, from a business point of view, the cartel market is genius, because you're getting money from both sub'ers and f2p'ers, and people who can afford it can chose to burn their money away at the cartel packs until they get the desired item they're after, it's their choice and they're free to do it.

 

So no i don't believe it's unethical that the cartel market exists, because it's a choice, you either use it or you don't, I still maintain it to be a rip off and expensive, but this is the EA way, as shown with their other games.

 

What does bother me though, is the whole cartel coins system, being a sub myself I expect to have full access to all the features in the game without having to spend anything extra, when I returned to swtor i was excited when I found out they had introduced a barber, but very disappointed to find out that you needed cartel coins instead of credits to use it., similar to needed cartel coins to convert ship requisition to fleet requisition, all systems designed to try to get you to buy coins,another example of the EA/Bioware rip off system.

 

It's frustrating, but thankfully still a choice, so even though the above mentioned things frustrate me i still chose not to waste money and buy coins, if my toon needs a haircut he/she will have to wait till the end of the month for the 'free' cartel coins (they're not free since i'm sub'ing)

[tharbison]

why would it be unethical for someone to save their own money?

 

 

Oh I thought you were talking about buying credits from gold farmers. That's what I thought might break the EULA. Not sure though. Nevermind!

[Trigon]

Well over 2 million subs thought it wasn't ethical and decided to unsub... just something to think about.

That is totally incorrect. F2P and the Cartel Market were created in response to the mass exodus of subscribers.

[Darth_Wicked]

Bored office workers.

 

This is so accurate.

[DarthTHC]

That is totally incorrect. F2P and the Cartel Market were created in response to the mass exodus of subscribers.

 

He wasn't going for accuracy. That never seems to be a goal in the about a dozen posts he gets in each day before getting his daily account banned.

[MWidowmaker]

Hi Everyone,

 

We understand that discussions can wonder from time to time, however, please remember that due to the volatile nature of real world political discussions, they are considered inappropriate on the forums.

 

Thanks,

 

 

i was hoping you would lock this useless and banal thread

[AlrikFassbauer]

i was hoping you would lock this useless and banal thread

 

Why do you believe it to be so ?

[Manweth]

Why do you believe it to be so ?

 

Because asking if playing a game is ethical FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER is redundant and idiotic.

 

It's a game. If ethics is your worry, work for Amnesty International.

 

Goddamit, somewhere in 'murica people are getting executed by inhumane drugs and procedures, WHILE PEOPLE ARE WATCHING, and you are worrying about the ethics implications of a FRIGGIN game.

 

Wake up. You disgust me.

[Jorgoman]

Because asking if playing a game is ethical FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER is redundant and idiotic.

 

It's a game. If ethics is your worry, work for Amnesty International.

 

Goddamit, somewhere in 'murica people are getting executed by inhumane drugs and procedures, WHILE PEOPLE ARE WATCHING, and you are worrying about the ethics implications of a FRIGGIN game.

 

Wake up. You disgust me.

 

I think this basically sums it up entirely for me. Asking if it's ethically right to play SWTOR is completely redundant, and it's moronic for people to create these "hate" threads (if you'll allow me to use such a broad and extreme term) when what they write-- the content of the thread is just that. Hate, or dislike, based on subjective opinion instead of looking at it objectively. This game is great; that's what I think. That's my opinion. If you don't like it, don't play it. There is no reason to incite dissent for a game, or attempt to rally people to dislike a game when most of what people type here is mainly based on opinions. Another thing that I really dislike is that whenever someone complains about the game, they use the term "we", as if they represent the entire community, or a large part of it. The majority of the community likes this game, which is something one cannot argue, considering that they still play the game.

 

It really is very simple:

If you don't like the game, don't play it.

If you like the game, play it.

 

We don't need to hear you start to question the moral compass of those who play this game (which, quite frankly sounds even more ridiculous the more I read the title.)