SgS-41b Comet Breaker + Team Death Match

[IWantOffLineGame]

This ship is trash! Why? Because of Proten Torpedoes.

 

1) Increase its 10,000 range to 15,000

 

2) 11 seconds reload time & a 4 second lock on time? I know the lock on time can be reduced by 14% and depending on your companions, reload reduced by a little, but that's hardly enough. IMO either have a long lock on time or reload, not both.

 

3) 10 ammo + the option to have 4 more ammo or 15% increased range? Ammo should be unlimited.

 

4) I'm not sure if this would be a good idea until I can do it, but what about being able to use your telescope to fire misslies? It would make it easier to transition from slug/plasma to torpedoes.

 

As for Team Death Match, make the capital ship turrets fire aagin. The devs must play GSF on an RP-PVE server, as that doesn't work on the Bastion.

 

Premade IMP scum will just sit on a capital ship and still half the team will spawn there, and as all the IMPs are there, you then have to fly there and then get focused down.

 

Even if only 2-4 ships spawn there, they are still feeding kills, and guess what? The premade IMPs can just go to the next spawn point and so forth.

 

In the update it says they "went on strike." Well in a time of war there is no strike. Either they get their asses back to work or they get shot.

[Armonddd]

The type 2 gunships have more problems than just proton torpedoes, and buffing torps to make the gunships viable would make other ships overpowered.

[Zharik]

In the update it says they "went on strike." Well in a time of war there is no strike. Either they get their asses back to work or they get shot.

 

That's funny... this is how I feel about ships fleeing a battle back to the NPC gunners.

[Kuciwalker]

The best and simplest way to give type 2 gunships a reason to exist would be to trade their sensor slot for a thruster slot.

[Altheran]

The best and simplest way to give type 2 gunships a reason to exist would be to trade their sensor slot for a thruster slot.

 

Or to give them an exclusive weapon that meshes better with Proton Torpedoes, so that it has its proper gameplay and niche, instead of trying to make it a kind of strange hybrid.

 

Proton Torpedoes are fundamentally incompatible with traditional Railguns. Both are weapons that you do not want to use at close range, yet they can't be used together from long range. Torpedoes make you enter a range you don't to be in to use Railguns, and when Railguns become ineffective, it becomes to short to use Torpedoes.

 

Or maybe if Railguns weren't this potent, maybe using Torpedoes would be judged "worth sacrificing a Railgun even though they don't mesh together"

Edited March 20, 2014 by Altheran

[Llama-Eight]

That's funny... this is how I feel about ships fleeing a battle back to the NPC gunners.

 

A simple tactical retreat to a better defended position to safeguard the lives of your pilots, rather than get all General Hague on them & make them march (slowly) through barbed wire into well dug in machine guns... Is it much different to trying to evade an opponent's fire?

[Kuciwalker]

Or to give them an exclusive weapon that meshes better with Proton Torpedoes, so that it has its proper gameplay and niche, instead of trying to make it a kind of strange hybrid.

 

Nope, that doesn't fall under "best" and "simplest". Give it a thruster component. This also gives it more "dogfighting" ability, which was their design goal.

 

That said, it should have concussion missiles as an option.

[Fractalsponge]

This ship was a massive disappointment when I saw the actual component selections. The "dogfighting" premise goes out the window since it doesn't have any good close-in weapons for self defense or close-up offensive work.

 

I agree it should have similar secondaries as a Rycer. That would be a good start, since you could equip clusters or concussion for self defense/furballing, while having a single (non-ion) railgun option available. Though without thrusters, getting locks may be much more of a pain. You could make it so that they get one railgun slot in compensation, though running slug+plasma is a bit silly anyway.

 

The tricky bit of redesigning this ship is that if you make it *too* similar to a strike in dogfighting potential, you'll invalidate all the strikes, since it'll basically become a strike with a railgun. As it is it is strictly worse weapons wise than a Mangler/Quarrel at all ranges, close in or not, and its ability to maneuver doesn't really allow it to dogfight much in return.

 

A shame really, since an actual dogfighting gunship would be epic to fly. (I'm thinking slightly less agile than a type I striker, but with a railgun option).

Edited March 20, 2014 by Fractalsponge

[Altheran]

Nope, that doesn't fall under "best" and "simplest". Give it a thruster component. This also gives it more "dogfighting" ability, which was their design goal.

 

That said, it should have concussion missiles as an option.

 

That still won't do. Thrusters alone don't make a ship a dogfighter.

For that you have to be proposed a coherent set of primary and secondary weapons. Although Concussive Missiles are unarguably better than Proton Torpedo in a dogfight, they're still not dogfight suited. And their primary choices aren't much more dogfight suited.

In the end, they'll be a mix of a Pike, and a Quarrel, taking both worse aspects, and hardly the best ones.

 

A Pike can use shorter, more suited for dogfight weapons in case dogfights happen (inevitable). They can also use a Proton/Bypassing weapon combo to get rid of ennemies regardless of shields. A Cometbreaker won't since he will use his Rail before instead of after likea Pike would, or if he choose the same weaponery than a Pike with Concussion, he'll be inferior in mobility and hull/shield strength.

And comparing to the Quarrel... At most he can do the same thing, with less Rails choices, and worse emergency tools.

Whatever choices you'd have with Concussion and a Thruster, that ship would still be vastly inferior.

 

The Cometbreaker really needs her own playstyle. Even if it's not the "simplest" solution.

Otherwise she can only try to mimic other ships and is bound to be either worse or better than the one she's mimicking.

[Kuciwalker]

That still won't do. Thrusters alone don't make a ship a dogfighter.

For that you have to be proposed a coherent set of primary and secondary weapons. Although Concussive Missiles are unarguably better than Proton Torpedo in a dogfight, they're still not dogfight suited. And their primary choices aren't much more dogfight suited.

In the end, they'll be a mix of a Pike, and a Quarrel, taking both worse aspects, and hardly the best ones.

 

Look, I hate the Comet Breaker with a passion. I think it's an insult to gunships. I get that the railgun-for-missile trade is terrible. But thrusters really are a great component, and sensors really are pretty crappy. Trading one for the other is a huge buff and at least gives the Comet Breaker something it can do that the Quarrel can't.

[Altheran]

Look, I hate the Comet Breaker with a passion. I think it's an insult to gunships. I get that the railgun-for-missile trade is terrible. But thrusters really are a great component, and sensors really are pretty crappy. Trading one for the other is a huge buff and at least gives the Comet Breaker something it can do that the Quarrel can't.

 

Two ships of the same class have to be given the possibility to choose inherently different abilities and purposes. If they differ by a mere stat given by a secondary component, it's not even worth to be called "different ship" : they'd still do the same thing.

 

Example : NovaDive and Flashfire can seem alike. Yet they are clearly different. Flashfire focuses on firepower (Clusters/Blaster overcharge) and NovaDive focuses on sabotage (Sabotage Probe/EMP Field).

You can judge one of them "better" when they use their common components, but each other will be able to do "something" the other one can't even dream of.

 

Quarrel is given the "Sniper role" Cometbreaker is given the "half-baked Sniper role with something else that don't work with the sniper role". That's were it failed, and where work has to be done.

With Thrusters the Cometbreaker will just be "better runner, worse sniper". While technically it can work, it's not what I think is ideal.

 

(And that's also why I think they should still work on the Spearpoint and Clarion and not release them in their current state... but that's another story.)

Edited March 20, 2014 by Altheran

[NotThatOne]

People that hate the comet breaker do not know how to fly the comet breaker.

 

Hint: It's a Strike Fighter with a rail gun.

[Altheran]

Hint: It's a Strike Fighter with a rail gun.

 

As long as it doesn't have the same stats (hull/shields/turning rate/speed) and/or more Strike-like component choices (Quick Charge Shields, Concussive Missile, Koiogran Turn...), it is and will remain "a Gunship with a Torpedo".

Edited March 20, 2014 by Altheran

[NotThatOne]

As long as it doesn't have the same stats (hull/shields/turning rate/speed) and/or more Strike-like component choices (Quick Charge Shields, Concussive Missile, Koiogran Turn...), it is and will remain "a Gunship with a Torpedo".

 

Do you fly the Star Guard in the same manner you fly the Pike? What about the Novadive, you fly it like a Flashfire?

 

Of course not: That would be stupid.

 

So why on earth would you fly the Comet-Breaker like you would the Quarrel

 

I've had nothing but sucess with my CBreaker, Because I recognize it's strengths along with it's weaknesses. No it is not as manueverable as a Strike, but it is a fine jouster when needs be, the Feedback shield, Heavy Lasers and Protorps are more than enough to drop most enemy craft on a head to head run.

 

The Cbreaker also evades as well as the Quarrel, with the available Barrel roll.

 

It is not uncommon for me to record multiple kills with each weapon system (Feedback Shield, Protorps, HLasers, and Plasma Rail) when I take my Breaker out. (And yes, I realize the shield ability isn't technically a weapon system, but I use it like one, so I include it.)

 

The CBreaker wasn't intended to be a Quarrel reskin, so stop expecting it to be.

[Altheran]

Do you fly the Star Guard in the same manner you fly the Pike? What about the Novadive, you fly it like a Flashfire?

 

Of course not: That would be stupid.

It's stupid, yet you can if you want to. Because they're both Scouts or Strike, you can give them components with very similar purpose.

 

So why on earth would you fly the Comet-Breaker like you would the Quarrel

I don't want to, so that's why I want a unique weapon for the Comet Breaker. So that she can have her "real" own fly style, and not act like a Quarrel at times, because I have no choice but to use Quarrel-fitting weapon. This ship doesn't really have her own style. One time it's a Strike, one time it's a Quarrel. Nothing that say "can't do that on your ship, heh ?"

 

I've had nothing but sucess with my CBreaker, Because I recognize it's strengths along with it's weaknesses. No it is not as manueverable as a Strike, but it is a fine jouster when needs be, the Feedback shield, Heavy Lasers and Protorps are more than enough to drop most enemy craft on a head to head run.

 

The Cbreaker also evades as well as the Quarrel, with the available Barrel roll.

 

It is not uncommon for me to record multiple kills with each weapon system (Feedback Shield, Protorps, HLasers, and Plasma Rail) when I take my Breaker out. (And yes, I realize the shield ability isn't technically a weapon system, but I use it like one, so I include it.)

Good for you. But that's a generic fly style that could be achieved with either a Strike or a Bomber. Both of them can fly with Heavy/Proton as their main source of damage.

 

The CBreaker wasn't intended to be a Quarrel reskin, so stop expecting it to be.

Explain how someone who is complaining about the Comet Breaker being too similar to the Quarrel, is actually "expecting" her to be similar. That's because I'm not expecting her to be a reskin that I'm bothered with her current condition.

 

I am not asking the Comet Breaker to be another good sniper.

 

---

 

Now that misunderstanding as been cleared, will you listen to how I want the Comet Breaker to be ?

 

I want her to be a "mobile artillery" ship. A ship that can use both of her secondary weapons depending on the situation, instead of a ship that will sometime act as sniper, sometimes as a striker.

Ideally, I want her to fight pretty well in the 7 000 - 10 000m range (where a Pike can only lay a Torpedo, but not fight from there), without having to use snipe mode that will tunnel vision me and root me like a Quarrel (which her and her weapons are rather fitting the 10 000 - 15 000m range)

That's the niche I want my Comet Breaker to fit in, and it's a range that no ship masters. The Pike can somewhat step this "area" but he remains mostly a < 7 000m fighter.

 

In addition, I have a Pike using Heavy/Proton and a Quarrel, so I have no need for such a Comet Breaker in her current state. She does nothing that my other ships don't. Hence why I want an additionnal new weapon.

If anyone want to fly her like you're currently doing, fine. I don't want to unallow that. It's just that if I'd want to joust people with Proton Torpedoes, I'd choose my Pike which I esteem to be more befitting.

 

The other reason I want that, is because I think that the key for succes for a ship switching weapons, is having at least two of the three weapons that are used in similar conditions. At the moment, unless we choose the two rails, which you'll probably agree is a silly choice, none of the three weapons are meshing well together. That's what disturbs me. Soon the Comet Breaker will have Thermite Torpedo as well, which is used like Proton Torpedo. But that's still not what I'm expecting.

 

So the idea is to add "Light Rail", a Rail that does not snipe, but can be loaded on the move. Numbers could be something like that :

 

Range : 500 - 5 000 - 10 000m

Damage : 1055 (can be lower if too much)

Weapon Accuracy : 110% - 100% - 95%

Charge up Time : 3s

Shield Piercing : 20%

Armor Piercing : 0%

Firing Arc : 20%

Tracking Penalty : 5%

The energy cost would be lower than regular Rails so that there's still some energy left if a need for a use of primaries occur.

 

The intended purpose of such weapon, is to keep the Gunship iconic behavior of firing Rails, while creating a real synergy with Torpedoes, and allowing a fighting style is different from any other ships : having an ideal fighting range bigger than Strikes, yet shorter than a Quarrel, with a mobility that is between the Strikes and the Quarrel's, without having to contantly stepping in and out the battlefield.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Altheran

[Verain]

People that hate the comet breaker do not know how to fly the comet breaker.

 

Hint: It's a Strike Fighter with a rail gun.

 

Well, not really. It lacks the hull, the shield, the baseline maneuverability, the baseline speed, the thruster component, and the ability to to switch in a generically good weapon such as concussions or clusters. While heavies are a solid choice, laser cannon is almost strictly worse than quads.

 

I do like the ship, but I feel it was meant to split the difference a bit, but not only do the secondaries not really back that up, the primaries don't either, and the inability to deviant from baseline to make something a bit more or less maneuverable is odd.

[NotThatOne]

Well, not really. It lacks the hull, the shield, the baseline maneuverability, the baseline speed, the thruster component, and the ability to to switch in a generically good weapon such as concussions or clusters. While heavies are a solid choice, laser cannon is almost strictly worse than quads.

 

I do like the ship, but I feel it was meant to split the difference a bit, but not only do the secondaries not really back that up, the primaries don't either, and the inability to deviant from baseline to make something a bit more or less maneuverable is odd.

 

Effective CBreaker Kill methodology:

 

1. Set target on fire, with Plasma Rail.

target will A: Run, B: Attack, C: Explode

 

If target runs, attack Plasma rail again, or retarget. Rinse, Repeat until C

 

2. If Target B: Attacks, switch to protrops, and go for lock, maintain position if target and his allies remain out of their weapon range, or Joust, with Heavy Lasers while locking on. Fire protorp and target with likely C: Explode.

 

3. If Target survives the joust with a heavy laser, plasma burn, and torpedo hit, activate feedback shield, and reset, or simply wait for the wounded duck to peck your feedback shield, at which point, he will likely C: Explode.

 

Maybe it's just because I mastered the Quarrel first and the Pike second, That I'm able to see and use the benefits of the Cbreaker platform.

 

Either way, if you've made up your mind, I'm not going to be able to change it.

 

But for those having trouble with it, My way works, for me and I'm happy to help anyone wanting to use this platform to it's fullest.

[Verain]

While I do agree that you will often have to threaten a missile lock with the Type 2 gunship, I don't think that plan really handles enemies who charge you. Charging is not going to shut down a strike fighter, but it sure does shut down a gunship- the Type 1 far less than the Type 2, with BLC in the mix.