Strongholds Legacy Wide storage? Great? can we include Datacron's?

[Magnusheart]

updating the OP.

 

 

To unlock legacy wide datacron credit. (aka a megacron on your stronghold) You'd have to have the achivement and title Datacron Master showing you have collected them on both empire and republic side first. and be level 50. (going up to but not including the fleet datacrons) And can only be used by the owner of the stronghold.

 

You have already done the legwork, and having it at level 50. doesn't make it an unfair stat advantage.

[Kortio]

Seriously? No.

[funkiestj]

On a brighter note, did anyone like the idea about having a room in your stronghold where you could see the datacrons you've gotten (like in a display case, or shelves, or something)?

 

I love the idea. It would also be nice to know which datacrons give what stat (codex doesn't tell me this -- I have to go to gamespy or some such to map codex entries back).

 

Also, if DCs are not a legacy earn then we need a way to view a particular toon's DC. Perhaps we simply see the currently logged in toon's DCs.

 

In general, I love the idea of making a bunch of trophy rooms for achievements. I.e. a 3 dimensional codex but one we can arrange and tweak.

[Khevar]

I love the idea. It would also be nice to know which datacrons give what stat (codex doesn't tell me this -- I have to go to gamespy or some such to map codex entries back).

 

Also, if DCs are not a legacy earn then we need a way to view a particular toon's DC. Perhaps we simply see the currently logged in toon's DCs.

 

In general, I love the idea of making a bunch of trophy rooms for achievements. I.e. a 3 dimensional codex but one we can arrange and tweak.

Yisss.

 

Agreed. One thing I could see happening (for me at least) would be if the "In-Game Achievements" were somehow translated into visible things in your Stronghold, it would probably make me want to go back and finish stuff.

 

The fact that my achievement log isn't 100% doesn't bother me a bit. But if if there were an empty spot for (x trophy) on the wall, my OCD would start poking me with a spork until I went and got it.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Khevar

[Ratajack]

Oh please. They are ABSOLUTELY permanent buffs, because you can reapply them at any time.

 

And while the companion buffs may not be direct stat increases, they increase critical, health, accuracy, surge and healing received by flat percentage values, that today are far more powerful than the +40 main stat/+50 endurance you can get from datacrons.

 

The very fact that you have to reapply makes them TEMPORARY by definition.

 

If I get a tattoo, that is permanent. It's applied ONCE and it stays there forever, or until I decide to remove it. If my wife gets a henna tattoo, she can have it reapplied every other day and simulate permanency, but each application is still temporary.

 

And yet that other character still didn't "earn" them by your definition, because that character didn't go and do the operation.

 

A character earned a SINGLE piece of gear and can do what he wants with that SINGLE piece of gear. He can rip those mods out and send them to an alt, but there is still only ONE set of mods. You cannot transfer the datacron bonuses. If a player could earn a SINGLE stat bonus and "gift" that stat bonus to an alt, that would be like sending the mods from the SINGLE piece of gear to an alt, but it doesn't work that way.

 

Strawman argument. A gear drop is not the same as collecting a datacron. It isn't even similar.

 

Really? What is the difference between clicking on a security chest on the ground to get the loot drop and clicking on a datcron on the ground to get that stat bonus? What is the difference between clicking on a resource node on the ground and clicking on a datacron on the ground?

 

You don't get infinite copies of whatever loot was in that security chest, or whatever that resource node produced for each and every character on your account, present and future, do you? Why should anyone get INFINITE sets of stat bonuses just because ONE character clicked on a datacron?

[Ratajack]

It's a significant difference. Seriously. It is. Really. Seriously.

 

But, why do you object to legacy datacrons and not any of the other things I mentioned?

 

It might be because titles are COSMETIC and NOT permanent stat bonuses. It might be because reputation items are COSMETIC. It might be because with the sole exception of the +41 crystals and one of the speeders, the CM items that can be added to collections are COSMETIC, and NONE of those items are PERMANENT stat increases. Even the +41 stat crystals are NOT permanent stat bonuses, they can be unequipped at any time.

 

You cannot unequip a datacron stat bonus.

[NoFishing]

Really? What is the difference between clicking on a security chest on the ground to get the loot drop and clicking on a datcron on the ground to get that stat bonus?

 

I already answered this once, but here we go again. Because one unlocks a codex entry. The other gives you a physical piece of gear. One is also part of end-game gear progression, and will be obsolete in 8-12 months.

 

Do you also object to legacy titles? Shared reputation? The collections system? Companion affection stat bonuses?

 

And a hypothetical question: When legacy launched way back in 1.2, if Bioware had made codex entries legacy wide at that time, with a side effect that they applied their affect across the entire legacy, would you have objected then?

[Ratajack]

I love the idea. It would also be nice to know which datacrons give what stat (codex doesn't tell me this -- I have to go to gamespy or some such to map codex entries back).

 

Also, if DCs are not a legacy earn then we need a way to view a particular toon's DC. Perhaps we simply see the currently logged in toon's DCs.

 

In general, I love the idea of making a bunch of trophy rooms for achievements. I.e. a 3 dimensional codex but one we can arrange and tweak.

 

I am in favor of legacy datacron CODEX ENTRIES, but not legacy stat bonuses. I'd love to be able to look at a datacron codex entry and be able to see which characters have found that datacron, the planet on which it was found and the attribute increased.

 

I would also like to see them set up those legacy codex entries in such a way that they can be sorted by various methods. Sort them by datacrons found by each character, by attribute increased, by location, etc.

[NoFishing]

It might be because titles are COSMETIC and NOT permanent stat bonuses. It might be because reputation items are COSMETIC. It might be because with the sole exception of the +41 crystals and one of the speeders, the CM items that can be added to collections are COSMETIC, and NONE of those items are PERMANENT stat increases. Even the +41 stat crystals are NOT permanent stat bonuses, they can be unequipped at any time.

 

You cannot unequip a datacron stat bonus.

 

Lol, sorry, no. Both the legacy buffs and the +41 crystals can be maintained with 100% uptime, in every environment, without a consumable item. They are NOT temporary. Unless you think people are choosing not to buff or to remove a +41 crystal from their gear.

[Ratajack]

I already answered this once, but here we go again. Because one unlocks a codex entry. The other gives you a physical piece of gear. One is also part of end-game gear progression, and will be obsolete in 8-12 months.

 

You just gave another reason for NOT allowing legacy codex entries. As you said, a piece of gear will be obsolete and replace, but the stat bonuses will NEVER be obsolete and replaced. They will be viable for the life of the game. This would make it even more appropriate that they be awarded PER CHARACTER.

 

I've also already explained that a legacy CODEX ENTRY for datacrons is something that I favor. The codex entry is NOT the same as the stat bonus, however. The stat bonus should be kept per character, IMO.

 

I can tell you about a great book I read, but until you read that book yourself, you will not truly understand. Having been fortunate enough to see the Mona Lisa, I can tell you that even though I saw many pictures of it beforehand, nothing could have prepared me for the beauty of the actual painting.

 

Do you also object to legacy titles? Shared reputation? The collections system? Companion affection stat bonuses?

 

Legacy titles are COSMETIC.

 

Reputation allows the purchase of COSMETIC items.

 

The collection system, with few exceptions, is COSMETIC. Even those exceptions are NOT permanent stat increases, as they must be equipped to grant the stat increase and they can be unequipped.

 

The presence bonus only affects your COMPANION"S performance and NOT your character's. Can you take a companion into a WZ? No. The presence bonus is useless there, while the datacron bonuses would not be useless. Can you take a companion into an OPS? No. The presence bonus is useless there, while the datacron bonuses would not be useless.

 

 

And a hypothetical question: When legacy launched way back in 1.2, if Bioware had made codex entries legacy wide at that time, with a side effect that they applied their affect across the entire legacy, would you have objected then?

 

As I said, legacy codex entries are something I favor, but ONLY the codex entries. The actual reward earned should be kept on a per character basis, whether that be datacron stat bonuses or CC's or anything else.

[Ratajack]

Lol, sorry, no. Both the legacy buffs and the +41 crystals can be maintained with 100% uptime, in every environment, without a consumable item. They are NOT temporary. Unless you think people are choosing not to buff or to remove a +41 crystal from their gear.

 

Temporary---lasting, existing, serving, or effective for a time only

 

 

By definition, they are TEMPORARY. They CAN be maintained, but they ARE not permanent. The constant reapplication of a buff or the continued equipping of an item does NOT make it permanent. That can only provide the appearance of permanency.

[Khevar]

@Ratajack, do you object to this for practical concerns, such as:

 

"The stat bonuses can give an advantage in PvP."

"The stat bonuses make a new level 1 player overpowered."

 

or philosophical ones, such as:

 

"It is giving someone free stuff they didn't earn."

[Magnusheart]

Jeeze so much rage, even with all the datacron stats its just slightly stronger than having one +41 stat crystal.

 

Whats the negative side effect of doing legacy wide datacrons? they did the work. twice. (pub and imp to get the achivement) if you put a level cap before being able to use it, it doesn't affect leveling. and if it did it would be nothing compared to the 600 presence a player can get at lvl 1 with companions maxed where they can kill gold mobs 6 levels higher than you.

 

 

Whats the drawback from having it? They don't deserve it? the way I suggested it already required you to have gotten all of them on both sides first. Unfair advantage while leveling? like I said, make it require 50. and its only the datacrons up to illum. they have higher stats than you? well thats because you never got datacrons before so why is their business your fault? All it does it makes it easier for altholics who can devote hour or two playing a different alt. but not hours on end just to get about 30 points of bonus damage.

 

Whats the negative drawback besides nan nanner poo do I don't want it so neither can you?

[Ratajack]

@Ratajack, do you object to this for practical concerns, such as:

 

"The stat bonuses can give an advantage in PvP."

"The stat bonuses make a new level 1 player overpowered."

 

or philosophical ones, such as:

 

"It is giving someone free stuff they didn't earn."

 

Both reasons, actually.

 

That said, I have already explained in other threads that if BW ever implements legacy datacron bonuses I hope they do it in a manner such as:

 

Unlocks are faction specific and ALL datacrons available to specific faction must be found by a single character before the unlock for that faction can be granted.

 

Stat bonuses are NOT "gifted" until a character reaches max level. If a player wants the bonus from a particular datacron for a specific character prior to that character reaching max level, then they can find that particular datacron with that character.

 

There should also be a hefty credit cost for this unlock. CC's should not be an option, IMO, as real money should not be able to purchase stat bonuses for characters.

 

If they wanted to tie it to legacy, I think a legacy level of 25 or 30 would be reasonable.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Ratajack

[Khevar]

Groovy, thanks for the clarification.

 

Did you mean to say that "CC's should NOT be an option" as opposed to "CC's should be an option"?

[Ratajack]

Jeeze so much rage, even with all the datacron stats its just slightly stronger than having one +41 stat crystal.

 

Whats the negative side effect of doing legacy wide datacrons? they did the work. twice. (pub and imp to get the achivement) if you put a level cap before being able to use it, it doesn't affect leveling. and if it did it would be nothing compared to the 600 presence a player can get at lvl 1 with companions maxed where they can kill gold mobs 6 levels higher than you.

 

 

Whats the drawback from having it? They don't deserve it? the way I suggested it already required you to have gotten all of them on both sides first. Unfair advantage while leveling? like I said, make it require 50. and its only the datacrons up to illum. they have higher stats than you? well thats because you never got datacrons before so why is their business your fault? All it does it makes it easier for altholics who can devote hour or two playing a different alt. but not hours on end just to get about 30 points of bonus damage.

 

Whats the negative drawback besides nan nanner poo do I don't want it so neither can you?

 

If the bonuses are so negligible, then it will not hurt players not to have those bonuses on their alts if they do not want to actually find the datacrons with those alts.

[Ratajack]

Groovy, thanks for the clarification.

 

Did you mean to say that "CC's should NOT be an option" as opposed to "CC's should be an option"?

 

Yes, I did. Thanks for catching that. Correction made.

[Khevar]

If the bonuses are so negligible, then it will not hurt players not to have those bonuses on their alts if they do not want to actually find the datacrons with those alts.

Let me first say that I don't really care if Legacy datacrons are implemented. I'm not lobbying on their behalf. But the argument about how valuable they are comes up periodically, and I'd like to speak to that.

 

My main toon is a Commando dps, which I use running raids through HM DF/DP and NM TfB/SnV. I have yet to get even 10% of available datacrons, because in my mind, the effort vs reward just isn't there. And I'm 100% okay with this. It hasn't affected my ability to support my group in any way, so no complaints whatsoever.

 

On the other hand, I have 15 alts. Quite a number of the legacy perks were attractive to obtain, as they would affect all of my characters. If Legacy datacrons were added to the game, the time vs reward measurement goes wayyyy up in my mind. Because it's a minor stat boost x 16 characters.

 

 

So it's possible for the datacron stat boosts to have a low value, BUT get a higher value if it applied to multiple toons.

[NoFishing]

The presence bonus only affects your COMPANION"S performance and NOT your character's.

 

And what about the +1% accuracy, +1% crit, +1% surge, +1% endurance, and +2% healing received bonuses that are permanent, legacy wide, and useful everywhere?

Edited March 21, 2014 by NoFishing

[Suromir]

1) Earn Armor : Earn Datacrons

 

2) Share Armor : Share Datacrons

 

Once I earn a set of armor and use legacy armor to transfer the sets, any of my characters can use it as long as they meet the level requirement. Considering that all the datacrons combined pale in comparison to one piece of end game gear...

 

Oh, I earned a class buff with one character and now all my characters have it. Isn't that the same type of shared power you are protesting?

 

not it's not the same. not even close. datacron stat bonuses are permanent. That ability you got from legacy (say orbital strike) can only be used during a certain circumstance, hits..and you have to wait for things to refresh before you can use it again.

 

Those mods in that legacy armor..yah try sending your fully geared tank set to your sniper...see how that helps ya.

 

it's not even close to the same. But it is always funny to see people come up with completely stupid reasoning to back their arguments.

 

Datacrons should never be legacy wide. and all your comparisons to what people are saying as to why don't even relate

[NoFishing]

That said, I have already explained in other threads that if BW ever implements legacy datacron bonuses I hope they do it in a manner such as:

 

All of which seems fine to me if Bioware becomes concerned about the datacron stats unbalancing the game for low-level toons.

 

In any case, I'm probably done in this thread. Everything that can be said has been said. I fully expect Bioware will implement legacy-wide datacrons at some point. I just hope I'm still around to enjoy the "Congrats Carebears, Bioware caved to your QQ and now the game sucks" posts.

[Ratajack]

And what about the +1% accuracy, +1% crit, +1% surge, +1% endurance, and +2% healing received bonuses that are permanent, legacy wide, and useful everywhere?

 

 

Should we all be lobbying the devs to set this game up so that we only EVER have to do something ONCE with ONE of our characters in order to be able to receive INFINITE copies of the reward for ALL of our characters, present and future? It's just a waste of time to have to do something on every character when you already did it on ONE character, after all. We can even claim that it has nothing to do with laziness because after all, we already did it ONCE and that proves we're not lazy, right?

[NoFishing]

Should we all be lobbying the devs to set this game up so that we only EVER have to do something ONCE with ONE of our characters in order to be able to receive INFINITE copies of the reward for ALL of our characters, present and future? It's just a waste of time to have to do something on every character when you already did it on ONE character, after all. We can even claim that it has nothing to do with laziness because after all, we already did it ONCE and that proves we're not lazy, right?

 

You didn't answer my question. Do you object to those stats as well?

[Magnusheart]

If the bonuses are so negligible, then it will not hurt players not to have those bonuses on their alts if they do not want to actually find the datacrons with those alts.

 

How is that even a defendable argument.

[Duniss]

That's the part you want to ignore.

 

Earn ONE set of armor : share ONE set of armor

 

Earn ONE set of datacron bonuses : give MULTIPLE sets of bonuses, one set to each and every character, present and future

 

They are NOT the same thing at all. You are not talking about "sharing" a single set of datacron bonuses like a single set of armor would be shared. You want infinite sets of bonuses (one for each and every character, present and future) for only earning ONE set of bonuses.

 

That class buff you earned? It's NOT a PERMANENT stat increase, is it? It is a timed buff that has to be applied and then reapplied, over and over.

well you get all datacrons on one char but fact is that your sentinel wont get boost from aim or cuning datacrons but you still picked those... I would get why you guys against shared datacrons if datacrons would realy take some sort of skill to gather but now duliest part of the game that dosent change at all. Nomater what class your play they all jump same. So your heal tank or dps is same thing over and over again. And what can be more fun then same jumping chalanges over and over again. I got all datacrons on 3 of my chars so Im all set for nims on those and i can live whit idea not doing nim on my other alts. BW makes legacy wide datacrons I gona come on forums to said big thanks they wont well it wasnt ment to be no big deal either way