Marauder damage problems

[Benirons]

Hey, so I have been doing some statistical testing on my marauder (my main) as I see numbers just not adding up when it comes to seeing numbers over enemy heads.

 

First off, annihilate ability. In full optimised dread forged gear the move's tolltip is like 7.4k-8.4k roughly (full class and 6 stack juyo form buff), but the ability itself would crit for the same range. I always found that wierd so decided to do some testing.

 

I went up against the operation dummy on my ship (35% damage reduction with zero armour pen, tested with force choke) and jotted down the first 10 non crit annihilate hits (just the MH hits, I did not have any relics on at all for consistency).

 

First I did it stanceless (juyo form turned off); here r the dmg numbers:

 

3515 3434 Tooltip dmg range: 5749-6566 (mean: 6157.50)

3337 3747

3470 3729 Average hit: 3590.90

3839 3295

3754 3789 Effective damage reduction: 41.68%

 

Then I did it in juyo stance, got the full 6 stacks, and did the same:

 

4727 3908 Tolltip dmg range: 7327-8351 (mean: 7839.00)

4136 3985

3946 4176 Average hit: 4143.30

3898 4143

4190 4324 Effective damage reduction: 47.15%

 

Its easy to see that there is something wrong with the tooltip range when juyo form is fully stacked: its a lot more than a 12% increase.

 

Fully stacked it should be: 6438.88-7353.92 (mean: 6896.40). Effective dmg reduction: 39.92%.

 

So with juyo form buff properly accounted for, annihilate for some reason faces a much higher damage reduction than the standard 35% without ANY armour penetration.

 

This is a HUGE problem folks. Should be looked into.

 

There is another damage problem I would like to highlight. It concerns smash in the rage tree.

 

For starters here is a perplexing video of my marauder getting every dmg buff possible (double relic proc, adrenal, bloodthrirst, berserk weaponmaster buff), getting a tripple shockwave powered smash tooltip of 9675-10062 (u can catch a glimpse of it around 8 seconds in the vid if u dont believe me). With 74.82% surge at the time the smash afterward only crit for 13699 (I had full armour pen going with gore; aka gore smash hybrid).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QnNVDHeVB4&feature=youtu.be

 

Quite clearly something is messed up here big time. I did some testing with skill tree and tooltip and this is what I found:

 

"As of right now, full rage mode my smash upper range is 3424 (take upper end only for simplicity, and again no relics on for consistency).

 

I specced such that I did not have decimate, after which my smash was 2867, a difference of 557 dmg.

 

Now here comes the interesting part. Full rage spec I went berserk and saw that my smash is only 6207, not even close to the dboule of 3424 with the shock wave buff.

 

Essentially the thing is, that the shockwave buff is applied to smash BEFORE decimate is applied, and then the original dmg buff by decimate is ADDED on top.

 

To give numberical example again for clarification: 3424 > shockwave > 2867 x2 > 5651 (shi cho messes with dmg a bit so not exactly double) > 557 dmg is added after for a total of 6207 (again some shi cho inconsistency).

 

So oddly enough, Decimate and shockwave are not both applied as multipliers (only latter), whilst decimate is merely added on top after shockwave is applied.

 

I suspect something similar is going on with the shicho form dmg buff as with decimate, it adding the original dmg buff AFTER shockwave is applied, hence the slight inconsistency in what is supposed to be double not being exactly double without decimate trained.

 

Any thoughts folks? 6207 instead of 6848 smash upper end with shockwave is a very significant loss, is this working as intended? Logically it does not make sense to me why decimate (and shi cho form dmg buff) is not applied as a multiplier in every single case."

 

Above quote was copied from another forum post of mine.

 

So there u have it, hopefully this will get some attention.

[XeniusX]

Hmm, sounds weird. I think the dmg range tooltip on your smash instantly changes when you specc into Decimate. Could it be thats the problem with your calc ? .. Maybe i read your text wrong tho.

[Benirons]

Hmm, sounds weird. I think the dmg range tooltip on your smash instantly changes when you specc into Decimate. Could it be thats the problem with your calc ? .. Maybe i read your text wrong tho.

 

Nope. You can go see for yourself. Look at ur smash tooltip dmg while fully specced in rage. Go berserk. U can see its not double, far less below it in fact.

 

Edit: make sure to click off ur weaponmaster set bonus buff from berserk, 4% does mess around with numbers XD.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Benirons

[znihilist]

The dummy have a 30% damage reduction. But I am looking at your numbers (will give another answer later).

 

What is your accuracy btw ?

You have to remember that the offhand might be missing. If you have combat logging enabled you can check how much the MH hit and how much the offhand hit.

 

 

Edit: Ah I missed the your comment on the MH, re-reading.

Edited March 21, 2014 by znihilist

[Benirons]

I explicitly tested with force choke to calculate the approximate dr of the operation dummy, since it always ticks for the same amount of dmg, so its very simple method.

 

I cannot remember the exact numbers but it was something like 1428 choke per tick (no juyo form stacks) and ticked on the dummy for soemthing like 890 or so (zero armour pen active).

 

Ill edit the numbers once I can reconfirm in game.

 

Edit: OKay so I took off my relics, stanceless force choke tooltip was 1331. With no armour pen at all, it ticked for 865 non crit. So effective dr of the operation dummy (I used the one on my ship btw) is 1-865/1331 = 35.0112697% to be exact. I assumed 35% cause dmg is always a whole number, never any integers.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Benirons

[znihilist]

I explicitly tested with force choke to calculte the approximate dr of the operation dummy, since it always ticks for the sam amount of dmg, so its very simple method.

 

I cannot remember the exact numbers but it was something like 1428 choke per tick (no juyo form stacks) and ticked on the dummy for soemthing like 890 or so (zero armour pen active).

 

Ill adit the numbers once I can reconfirm in game.

 

I am pretty sure it is 30%

 

Anyway here is my answer: You are making a slight comparison mistake. The tooltip damage includes the Offhand damage contribution, so what you are doing is comparing the total damage of the ability to only the MH contribution.

 

Edit: Re-checking in game myself as well.

 

You seem to be correct, it is 35%.

hmmmm

Edited March 21, 2014 by znihilist

[Benirons]

I am pretty sure it is 30% (But I will check it)

 

Anyway here is my answer: You are making a slight comparison mistake. The tooltip damage includes the Offhand damage contribution, so what you are doing is comparing the total damage of the ability to only the MH contribution.

 

Edit: Re-checking in game myself as well.

 

Well if its 30% dr after all then things r even worse.

 

Ill be frank with you, I never heard one way or the other if the OH dmg is included in the tooltip. (I do know that 30-66% of OH dmg rande is added to the MH dmg range). I sort of assumed that it is not XD, its rng based wheather it hits or not, so tooltip dmg would not be very informative like that being based on statistics. But honestly I got no clue.

[znihilist]

Well if its 30% dr after all then things r even worse.

 

Ill be frank with you, I never heard one way or the other if the OH dmg is included in the tooltip. (I do know that 30-66% of OH dmg rande is added to the MH dmg range). I sort of assumed that it is not XD, its rng based wheather it hits or not, so tooltip dmg would not be very informative like that being based on statistics. But honestly I got no clue.

 

I just did the test myself without Juyo, getting the numbers.

I will reply in a minute with the numbers.

[znihilist]

No buffs, no relics, no stances:

1) Offhand included in gear, tooltip is: 5042 - 5880

2) Offhand removed, tooltip is: 4110 - 4587 (I will explain in a minute why I did this)

 

MH hits:

 

 

2,948

2,856

3,072

2,859

3,019

2,876

2,866

3,095

3,107

2,949

2,976

2,866

2,941

2,905

 

 

 

Average is : 2952.5

Tooltip average with OH included: 5461 Ratio with OH included: 0.54

Tooltip average with OH excluded: 4348.5 Ratio with OH excluded: 0.67 <----

Excluding the OH and looking at the tooltip will give you something very close to the actual MH damage, it is not the same because of the extra str and power on the OH.

As you can see here the 0.67 ratio is very close to the expect 0.65.

Edited March 21, 2014 by znihilist

[Benirons]

No buffs, no relics, no stances:

1) Offhand included in gear, tooltip is: 5042 - 5880

2) Offhand removed, tooltip is: 4110 - 4587 (I will explain in a minute why I did this)

 

MH hits:

 

 

2,948

2,856

3,072

2,859

3,019

2,876

2,866

3,095

3,107

2,949

2,976

2,866

2,941

2,905

 

 

 

Average is : 2952.5

Tooltip average with OH included: 5461 Ratio with OH included: 0.54

Tooltip average with OH excluded: 4348.5 Ratio with OH excluded: 0.67 <----

Excluding the OH and looking at the tooltip will give you something very close to the actual MH damage, it is not the same because of the extra str and power on the OH.

As you can see here the 0.67 ratio is very close to the expect 0.65.

 

Sorry had raid night tonight, so couldnt respond till now ....

 

Well ill be damned, this really shows that OH hit is included in the tooltip for maras, which I find rather odd, but it is what it is. Good find, should do one with offhand equipped as well, and keep track of OH hits too on the dummy and compare MH+OH hit ratio with tooltip, for ****z and giggles.

 

Albeit I think I stand corrected. However, one thing I still dont understand: why is it that the tooltip with full juyo stack is apparently so off? (a boost of more than 12%)

 

Also, what r ur thoughts about the smash dmg part of the OP?

[Benirons]

bumpppp

[znihilist]

I am out of town and could not reply right away, sorry!

With juyo stacks I was getting normal damage as well. As for the smash I will do more testing tomorrow when I am back.

Stay tuned.

[oofalong]

I do not believe the tooltips are currently bugged for the abilities you are analyzing.

 

Let's look at Annihilate. There are 4 values that go into the tooltip damage - you can read more about them here.

 

The coefficients are:

 

Hilt Modifier for MH & OH is 0.9

Damage Bonus Coefficient is 2.85

Std Health % is 0.285

 

Thus, given 78 hilts and Damage Bonus of 1,000, which is close to BiS for current gear. (Please not this ignores all class buffs.) The tooltip should have a range of:

 

Min:

(1.9 * 575 + 1,000 * 2.85 + 0.285 *2,685) + (0.66 * 1.9 * 575)

 

MH Total: 4,585

OH Total: 721

Total Min: 5,306

 

Max:

(1.9 * 863 + 1,000 * 2.85 + 0.285 *2,685) + (0.66 * 1.9 * 863)

 

MH Total: 5,132

OH Total: 1082

Total Min: 6,214

 

Next, the Combat dummy has armor which will reduce the damage by ~35%. Thus, the expected damage for a MH Only hit would range from 2980 - 3336.

 

Can you restate your information, but either focus on the entire ability or just the MH damage? For simplicity sake, you may want to use the entire ability as the tooltip does not differentiate between MH & OH.

 

Also, Force Choke has four ticks of equal damage. This damage is mitigate by armor as well.

 

Also post a combat log not a video we can be sure to look at the same data.

Edited March 23, 2014 by oofalong

[Benirons]

There was nothing about force choke I just used it to verify the ops dummy dr (since its constant dmg per tick).

 

Odd: my hilts have a range of 590-849 (I saw pic in ur link of urs which are 575-863). Though this should not be a dramatic difference.

 

I did the tests in the OP without relics on, rest full df, so my bonus dmg was 1095.8. With the coefficients u have given, this gives the following ranges:

 

MIN: 5009 MH, 740 OH (5749)

MAX: 5501 MH, 1065 OH (total: 6566)

 

The above totals basically r just what I posted in the OP. 65% of the MH mean is 3415.75 which is somewhat below my stancesless avg of 3590.90 and surprisingly above the 0.65*5501 (3575.65) MAX MH hit. I am not sure whats going on here, maybe recording MH hits visually is not the most accurate way to go, ill redo my test again and get the numbers from the combat log.

 

However, its naturally beyond question that OH hits are indeed included in the tooltip. What continues to puzzle me is the annihilate tooltip with 6 stacks of juyo form. Mathematically it should be a direct 12% boost to MIN and MAX annihilate tooltip range, but in practice the tooltip dmg range goes up by 27.1% roughly. Ill do a more detailed combat log test on this as well (i.e 6 stacks of juyo). Do u have any insight on this though? I am at a loss personally XD.

 

(Will edit this post as I contemplate ur reply and do more digging around on my character).

 

Stanceless (* means crit)

 

 

MH OH

3318 0

3372 983*

3488 527

3547 0

3327 0 combat log: http://www.torparse.com/a/627070 (took the first 10 non crit MH hits)

3439 0

3291 1176*

3398 0

3267 928*

3559 648

 

Avg MH hit: 3400.6

 

 

 

All of the above conforms to the expected MIN and MAX MH range subject to 35% dr (3256-3576).

 

Now I fully stacked up juyo to 6 stacks, then did the same:

 

 

 

 

MH OH

4002 1078*

3656 697

3816 0

3793 1030*

3833 0

3684 0

3704 664 combat log: http://www.torparse.com/a/627070

3812 633

3708 0

3724 661

 

Average MH hit: 3773.4 (10.96% above stanceless avg)

Tooltip: 7327-8351

 

 

 

Take 4002. If we factor out 35% dr, MH dmg "MAX" hit is roughly 6157. Adding OH upper range on top (1065*1.12) makes it 7350 overall tooltip upper end (roughly). Ways short of the 8351 tooltip upper end with fully stacked juyo. I dunno whats going on here? I guess juyo dmg buff is not applied linearly to overall tooltip dmg? (note 12% on top of stanceless upper end tooltip wold be 6566*1.12 = 7354, very close to what we just got). So full juyo stacked tooltip continues to puzzle me greatly.

 

 

As for the smash dmg (decimate and triple shockwave): Decimate is indeed a direct 20% dmg boost on its own on the tolltip. Without decimate specced into, tripe shockwave is indeed a x2 boost to the smash tooltip (I dropped stance after berserk and clicked off weaponmaster buff while verifying). So when the two r put together, I fail to understand why the smash tooltip is not x*1.2*2, but instead x*2+(0.2*x).

 

Thoughts?

 

P.S: I have recreated the gore smash demonstrated in the video that I linked. Utilised reusable might stim, reusable attack adrenal, weaponmaster buff, bloodthirst and double relic proc. 74.82% surge at the time, did not manage to catch a glimpse of the smash tooltip just b4 the smash (I imagine it would have been right around 10k tooltip).

 

Here is the combat log for this one: http://www.torparse.com/a/627077.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Benirons

[oofalong]

There was nothing about force choke I just used it to verify the ops dummy dr (since its constant dmg per tick).

 

Odd: my hilts have a range of 590-849 (I saw pic in ur link of urs which are 575-863). Though this should not be a dramatic difference.

 

I did the tests in the OP without relics on, rest full df, so my bonus dmg was 1095.8. With the coefficients u have given, this gives the following ranges:

 

MIN: 5009 MH, 740 OH (5749)

MAX: 5501 MH, 1065 OH (total: 6566)

...

Here is the combat log for this one: http://www.torparse.com/a/627077.

 

So your tooltip values here are without 6 stacks of Juyo form, right? When I look at this parse from your log link, I see a total of 20 MH non-critical hits for Annihilate. After adjusting for armor - by taking the combat log value and dividing by 0.65 - the MH ranges from 5,611 to 6,157.

 

When I take your tooltip range and adjust for 6 Juyo stacks - by multiplying by 1.12 - I get a tooltip range of 5,610 and 6,161. You can see this data here.

 

Thus, your observed values are within the expected range. So we can conclude that Annihilate and Juyo are working fine. Agreed? By the way, tooltips are occasionally bugged. I don't spend a lot of time looking at the instantaneous tooltip values because of this.

 

I can't specifically cite what you are doing wrong here as I haven't been able to follow your math. Incidentally for now I am only focusing on this ability as it is simpler than your Smash question.

Edited March 24, 2014 by oofalong

[Benirons]

The first set of statistics in my previous post I have done stanceless, so it was the natural standing tooltip of 5749-6566.

 

The second set of statistics (the combat log for which u gave the link in ur last reply) was done with full stacks of juyo (i.e. assault till 6 stacks, then started the series of annihilate). Fully stacked juyo tooltip was 7327-8351.

 

(ill take the upper end from now on for simplicity). So when we multiply the stanceless tolltop by 1.12 to adjust for juyo, we get 7354, ways short of the 8351 which is the full juyo tooltip upper end.

 

The highest hit on the dummy with full juyo was 4002, MH only. Adjusting for dr its 6157. Adding the OH upper end hit to it (also adjusted for juyo) we get: 6157 + 1.9*0.66*849*1.12= 7350. Which is very close to the MAX upper end for MH AND OH hit with full juyo (7354 we got in the above paragraph).

 

Therefore I am beyond cerntainty that the full juyo annihilate tooltip is bugged and does not show the true values, not even close. I dont know why that is, just as u said its not working properly for some reason and so u dont look at instantaneous tooltips.

 

So all in all, it is beyond question after all this number crunching that annihilate is indeed working properly. Thank you for that, and I stand corrected

 

Now just need to figure out whats going on with smash....

[oofalong]

Now just need to figure out whats going on with smash....

 

 

Cool, I will go back and read that now.

[oofalong]

*snip*

 

For starters here is a perplexing video of my marauder getting every dmg buff possible (double relic proc, adrenal, bloodthrirst, berserk weaponmaster buff), getting a tripple shockwave powered smash tooltip of 9675-10062 (u can catch a glimpse of it around 8 seconds in the vid if u dont believe me). With 74.82% surge at the time the smash afterward only crit for 13699 (I had full armour pen going with gore; aka gore smash hybrid).

*snip*

 

 

Can you clarify on what is messed up: the tooltip or the actual damage done?

 

I believe the actual damage done is pretty close to where it should be. Let's review the Smash inputs:

 

Damage Bonus Coefficient: 1.35

Std Heath Min: 0.115

Std Health Max: 0.155

 

With all class buffs, ~BiS 78 gear, adrenal and both relic buffs, I estimate your Force Damage Bonus will be around 2,206. Based on this the expected damage for a 3-stack Shockwave-powered, Dominate-boosted, Gore-window Smash is 13,746 to 14,195. Your observed value of 13,699 is really close to this range. I suspect any variance can be attributed to slight gear differences or lack of datacrons.

 

Let me outline how I arrived at the range. I am only going to walkthru the high-end, but the math would be the same for the low-end. (You also estimated the high-end so it seems like a fair comparison.)

 

Base high-end damage = 1.35 * 2,206 + 0.155 * 2,685 = 3,394 (again close to your reported value)

 

The buffs from Decimate (20%), Shockwave (100%), Weaponmasters (4%), and Bloodthrist (15%) are all additive so the total value we get is +139%.

 

Thus, our base damage is now 8,112 (239% * 3,394 = 8,112). Next, we apply the surge and get 14,195 (175% * 8,112 = 14,195) Since this hit occurs in the Gore-window we do not need to adjust for the target's armor.

 

Based on this, I believe Smash - and all of your various buffs - are working as they should. I think it is a case of your tooltips not updating correctly/fast enough. I have noticed that when you hover over the tooltip it sometimes can't refresh based on all of the latest buffs.

Edited March 24, 2014 by oofalong

[Benirons]

Can you clarify on what is messed up: the tooltip or the actual damage done?

 

I believe the actual damage done is pretty close to where it should be. Let's review the Smash inputs:

 

Damage Bonus Coefficient: 1.35

Std Heath Min: 0.115

Std Health Max: 0.155

 

With all class buffs, ~BiS 78 gear, adrenal and both relic buffs, I estimate your Force Damage Bonus will be around 2,206. Based on this the expected damage for a 3-stack Shockwave-powered, Dominate-boosted, Gore-window Smash is 13,746 to 14,195. Your observed value of 13,699 is really close to this range. I suspect any variance can be attributed to slight gear differences or lack of datacrons.

 

Let me outline how I arrived at the range. I am only going to walkthru the high-end, but the math would be the same for the low-end. (You also estimated the high-end so it seems like a fair comparison.)

 

Base high-end damage = 1.35 * 2,206 + 0.155 * 2,685 = 3,394 (again close to your reported value)

 

The buffs from Decimate (20%), Shockwave (100%), Weaponmasters (4%), and Bloodthrist (15%) are all additive so the total value we get is +139%.

 

Thus, our base damage is now 8,112 (239% * 3,394 = 8,112). Next, we apply the surge and get 14,195 (175% * 8,112 = 14,195) Since this hit occurs in the Gore-window we do not need to adjust for the target's armor.

 

Based on this, I believe Smash - and all of your various buffs - are working as they should. I think it is a case of your tooltips not updating correctly/fast enough. I have noticed that when you hover over the tooltip it sometimes can't refresh based on all of the latest buffs.

 

I have all the datacrons on that one toon XD. Th slight difference is due to when the vid was made, I was not yet fully 78 BiS.

 

I am stunned that the percentage buffs r all additive, makes zero mathematical sense to me. In practice it is x*(1.2+0.15+1.0+0.04) = 2.39*x as u posted above. Whereas I would expect it to be x*(1.2*1.15*2*1.04) = 2.8704*x.

 

Other than that, ur analysis makes perfect sense. I did not know/consider the possibility of the % buffs being additive instead of multiplicative.

 

One thing though, I think u forgot about the shi cho stance damage buff (so did I XD)? It is said to be 3% dmg buff on the stance tooltip. Stanceless, zero skill points spent, smash upper end is 2715 for me (1703.2 force bonus dmg). With shi cho, its 2894. Which is a 6.6% inscrease. Thoughts? Or do you think that this static buff behaves irratically with regard to the actual real time tooltip, just like juyo stacks?

[oofalong]

I am stunned that the percentage buffs r all additive, makes zero mathematical sense to me. In practice it is x*(1.2+0.15+1.0+0.04) = 2.39*x as u posted above. Whereas I would expect it to be x*(1.2*1.15*2*1.04) = 2.8704*x.

 

As a rule, all buffs are applied in the least advantageous way for the player. In this case they are additive not multiplicative. On the other hand, damage reduction is multiplicative not additive. I don't mean this as an indictment of the game's design just a useful way to think about buffs.

 

One thing though, I think u forgot about the shi cho stance damage buff (so did I XD)? It is said to be 3% dmg buff on the stance tooltip. Stanceless, zero skill points spent, smash upper end is 2715 for me (1703.2 force bonus dmg). With shi cho, its 2894. Which is a 6.6% inscrease. Thoughts? Or do you think that this static buff behaves irratically with regard to the actual real time tooltip, just like juyo stacks?

 

Good point re: Shii-Cho, in my example the extra 3% would bring it up to 242%. Still, close enough in my book for what you observed.

 

Given the current tooltip of 2715, I would expect activating Shii-Cho form to increase the amount to 2,873. (2,715 / 1.2 * 1.23 = 2,783.) Again because the buffs are additive, we need to adjust to get to our true base damage for Smash net of Decimate. Thus, I believe what you observed was another timing error on the tooltip or some change in other stats. I will play around with this a bit tonight.

[Benirons]

Given the current tooltip of 2715, I would expect activating Shii-Cho form to increase the amount to 2,873. (2,715 / 1.2 * 1.23 = 2,783.) Again because the buffs are additive, we need to adjust to get to our true base damage for Smash net of Decimate. Thus, I believe what you observed was another timing error on the tooltip or some change in other stats. I will play around with this a bit tonight.

 

U got a point wrong. I had ZERO skill points spent, i.e. no decimate 20% buff to smash. That 2715 tooltip upper end is the plain raw smash tooltip upper end out of combat, stanceless.

 

Still in the same state, I put on shi cho stance and then got the 2894 upper end. So still no decimate active whatsoever, just raw smash upper end with shi cho form buff. Hence my confusion.

 

P.S: Thanks for taking the trouble and responding to my posts in great meticulous detail! I have learnt a fair bit about tolltip calculations, how buffs and items affect tooltip dmg etc. In all very good insight. Much appreciated

Edited March 24, 2014 by Benirons

[oofalong]

U got a point wrong. I had ZERO skill points spent, i.e. no decimate 20% buff to smash. That 2715 tooltip upper end is the plain raw smash tooltip upper end out of combat, stanceless.

 

Still in the same state, I put on shi cho stance and then got the 2894 upper end. So still no decimate active whatsoever, just raw smash upper end with shi cho form buff. Hence my confusion.

 

Yeah, this is really odd. Did your stim wear off by chance? I will definitely look into this more tonight.

 

P.S: Thanks for taking the trouble and responding to my posts in great meticulous detail! I have learnt a fair bit about tolltip calculations, how buffs and items affect tooltip dmg etc. In all very good insight. Much appreciated

 

No problem, it can definitely be confusing. I am amazed at how many times I still find minors errors in my work. One of the reasons I publish my work and engage on these forums and others is to have my stuff reviewed by more people. This helps ensure I have made the right assumptions and done things correctly.

[Benirons]

Right on! I bet u know things better than the devs even hehe.

 

Now back on topic.

 

Nope, I use reusable might stim all the time (except for serious stuff). In this case it was most assuredly on.

[oofalong]

Right on! I bet u know things better than the devs even hehe.

 

Now back on topic.

 

Nope, I use reusable might stim all the time (except for serious stuff). In this case it was most assuredly on.

 

So the good news is I got ~6% boost to Smash when entering Shii-Cho form according to the tooltip. Unfortunately, I did not have time to test the actual damage. Based on the game files as described in Torhead, I believe it is only providing a 3% buff. I will look into this more, but it will be several days before I can exhaustively.