Get rid of Damage Overcharge Powerup!

[Sindariel]

This game breaking ability needs to finally go away.

 

Wins and losses of matches should be decided by the pilots capabilities and teamplay and NOT by some ridiculously overpowered "I win" buff.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Sindariel

[Kuciwalker]

The problem with damage overcharge isn't that it negates skill. The problem with damage overcharge is that it magnifies skill. Edited March 19, 2014 by Kuciwalker

[Armonddd]

The problem with damage overcharge isn't that it negates skill. The problem with damage overcharge is that it magnifies skill.

 

The other problem is that it encourages gameplay outside of what's intended and expected in a deathmatch.

[Kain_Turinbar]

The other problem is that it encourages gameplay outside of what's intended and expected in a deathmatch.

 

It is kind of funny when you pick it up and then everyone spends the next 30 seconds running from you .

[SammyGStatus]

I cannot stress this enough - I LOVEEEEEE THIS! Not game breaking, just don't let me get it. Problem solved.

[Sindariel]

The problem with damage overcharge isn't that it negates skill. The problem with damage overcharge is that it magnifies skill.

 

Both is true.

An average player with Damage Overcharge can easily turn the tables in a deathmatch, but DO in the hands of a skilled pilot is absolutely devastating and completely destroys any possible game balance.

 

It is kind of funny when you pick it up and then everyone spends the next 30 seconds running from you .

 

Or they all come at you to focus you down but end up getting one-shotted one by one.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Sindariel

[Verain]

I am a huge fan of damage overcharge. I really like the way it rewards a team who can respond properly, rewards situational awareness, rewards mobility, punishes clumping, and rewards good play.

 

 

Do not remove. Big fan!

[Altheran]

I have mixed feelings about Damage Overcharge. I think it's too powerful, yet I think it can have its place in the game.

 

Maybe if it only gave auto-crit instead of a 150% damage bonus, which can crit on top of that...

[Armonddd]

I am a huge fan of damage overcharge. I really like the way it rewards a team who can respond properly, rewards situational awareness, rewards mobility, punishes clumping, and rewards good play.

 

 

Do not remove. Big fan!

 

I'm somehow not surprised.

[Cekis]

Damage powerups are game changers... however... that's the point of them, isn't it? If you're savy enough to break off a pursuit in favor of getting one - good for you. If you're smart enough to shoot down the guy who has one instead of letting them run hog-wild shooting everything in the sky down - good for you.

 

If you're not... adjust and play the game for what it's worth. Same thing as domination. Gameplay completely differs between the two styles. That's one of the things I truly love about GSF.

 

Powerups (not just damage) need to stay. The damage powerup is a fun twist that magnifies skill. There's no possible way you can pit me up against a poor player (or even mediocre one) and tell me I'm going to lose simply because he got the red dot first. Give me a break. If you think this is true then you're mediocre as well. I'm not trying to offend, but if you've got skill, you can overcome - I do it everytime I get into a TDM and somebody else has the powerup. No sweat off my back to go up against them - more power to them.

[Verain]

Maybe if it only gave auto-crit instead of a 150% damage bonus, which can crit on top of that...

 

Why is it better if it stops working with HK-51's copilot ability and doesn't stack with crit talents?

 

 

It's fine the way it is IMO. I really like that it offers a change of pace by making someone very deadly temporarily.

[Armonddd]

If you're not... adjust and play the game for what it's worth.

 

But here's the problem: the damage overcharge is so good and its presence is such a huge gamechanger, especially against uninformed opponents (of which there are many, because wut's matchmaking), that you are almost guaranteed a better K/D ratio if you hunt out red dots for most of the match than if you hunt out enemy ships. And in a game match that is all about KDR, well, that's kind of a problem.

 

It's not fun for me to hunt out the red dots, so I don't. If I happen to see one while I'm chasing someone, you can bet your **** I'll break off to grab it. And that's fine, in my opinion -- I have to weigh the risks (taking a predictable flight path, which might get me shot down by a gunship or something, and losing my target, who might survive because I'm not pursuing him) against the rewards (getting the powerup!). But at the same time, I know I'm not performing as optimally as if I spent my time searching for powerups full time.

 

This is called a dominant strategy, and it's bad game design.

 

Games are, at their heart, all about problem solving. When we play GSF, we're solving a bunch of problems -- what's the optimal set of components for my playstyle? What strategies and tactics can I employ to kill my enemies? What strategies and tactics can I employ to win the match? Once these problems are solved, we start to "burn out". (I'm sure you've all seen similar in ops and in other games -- someone plays the game too much, gets too used to doing the same thing, and stops playing. They've solved all the problems, and they get no more enjoyment from going through the motions.) I could expand on this, but Jesse Schell has literally written a book on the subject, so I'll simply recommend his The Art of Game Design for anyone interested.

 

This is why we as players are so eager for new content. And when the content is just rehashed versions of what we've already done with few changes, well, it's simply not as interesting.

 

Flying in space PvP is generally interesting because you're never sure what the other team is going to do. Each combination of enemy pilots and enemy ships provides a different challenge, and there's often different solutions. That's why I love PvP; no two fights (against skilled opponents) are alike, and I have to adjust my tactics on the fly if I want to win. It's challenging and interesting.

 

But when the dominant strategy is found, matches become predictable -- and when gameplay is predictable, it becomes stale and boring. No new challenges are presented, no new problems need to be solved, and players lose interest. There's no challenge or surprise in picking up a blackbolt and zooming around the map looking for damage overcharge, then turning my lasers on whichever poor saps happen to be closest. The same thing happens every time: I fly along this path, I pick up the big red dot, I hit tab, I boost to the nearest enemy, and I click on him twice. Continue tabbing until DO runs out, then go back to searching for red dots. Hell, a bot could do that -- why should I?

 

I also strongly disagree with the concept of powerups, especially in a story-based game like SWTOR. Why do they exist? Why do they defy gravity? Why are they so powerful? Where the hell were they on the Death Star runs? I agree that there needs to be some element preventing people from forming killballs and rolling across the map, but I think shiny powerup balls were the wrong answer... and when they're so powerful as to form a dominant strategy, well, the whole system is just bad and needs to be reworked.

 

*Not liable for asses lost as a result of foolish bets placed with parties including but not limited to Satan.

[Verain]

But here's the problem: the damage overcharge is so good and its presence is such a huge gamechanger, especially against uninformed opponents (of which there are many, because wut's matchmaking), that you are almost guaranteed a better K/D ratio if you hunt out red dots for most of the match than if you hunt out enemy ships. And in a game match that is all about KDR, well, that's kind of a problem.

 

Actually the game is more about kill racing, not the ratio. But as you say, without DO buff, there would be no reason to do anything but roll around in a death ball, and as such, the powerup is very good.

 

But at the same time, I know I'm not performing as optimally as if I spent my time searching for powerups full time.

 

This is called a dominant strategy, and it's bad game design.

 

It is 100% not a dominant strategy. You can do fine not searching for red dots, and instead turning on those who pick them up. You also take a huge chance by searching that you will not find one. Change your strategy to DO seeking and note how you abandon your team with no guarantee of payoff, and you'll see what I mean. The correct strategy is not to ignore the powerups, but also not to ignore the rest of the game.

 

 

 

 

I can see your realism argument, however. I think that could be solved while keeping them, though. As placed, there's no lore justifying them at all and they are very gamist.

[Armonddd]

Actually the game is more about kill racing, not the ratio. But as you say, without DO buff, there would be no reason to do anything but roll around in a death ball, and as such, the powerup is very good.

 

The two don't follow. Powerups encourage players to spread out; that's a good thing. Powerups also are excessively powerful; that's a bad thing.

 

It's like gunships: being sniped out of the air by someone you didn't know existed is a bad thing, as is being 100% shut down by 25% taps, but the encouragement to leave the point and the resulting expanded battlefield are both good things.

 

Are both completely fine as is? Should either be removed entirely? I think not -- the middle ground is applying adjustments to the current implementation.

 

It is 100% not a dominant strategy. You can do fine not searching for red dots, and instead turning on those who pick them up. You also take a huge chance by searching that you will not find one. Change your strategy to DO seeking and note how you abandon your team with no guarantee of payoff, and you'll see what I mean. The correct strategy is not to ignore the powerups, but also not to ignore the rest of the game.

 

I've done it, and so have a ton of players on my server. I found it boring and predictable, and lead to easy wins, so I stopped. A lot of otherwise mediocre players on my server are now more dangerous than they were before they learned where to look for powerups. The risks you speak of are simply vastly outweighed by the benefits of one-, two-, or three-shotting a whole bunch of people in that small time frame.

 

If your overall performance picks up because you're spending a lot of time searching for powerups, you have suddenly found the dominant strategy.

 

I can see your realism argument, however. I think that could be solved while keeping them, though. As placed, there's no lore justifying them at all and they are very gamist.

 

I would be much happier on that front if they were pit stop stations or something of the like. Quite honestly, a large part of the reason I'd rather see powerups removed instead of simply reduced in power is because they make no cinematic sense. Going for a pit stop and getting my fuel injectors cleaned, or taking a power jolt from some jawas that totally know what they're doing? That I can definitely get behind.

 

And, y'know, as I said earlier, realism and power scale are two separate problems. You're definitely right that they can be addressed separately. Maybe I'm just bitter, but I'd rather BioWare take the easy way out and spend their resources on a different game mode or a new ship class.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Armonddd

[zaskar]

Very simple fix, truly randomize the power ups. Make it so you don't know what you get until you pick it up, this will stop the TDM strategy of whoever owns the ravine with the weapon node, wins the game. This way it is super easy to tweak the odds per power up so the damage are rare. They will still be powerful but they won't be game changing as they are now.

[Verain]

Damage overcharge doesn't always spawn in the same place.

[RiVaN_]

Instead of one of my usual walls of text I think that I will simply state my point this time.

 

Remove all power ups because I can never remember to pick them up.

 

In all seriousness the power ups just add a different dimension to the game, they aren't really an issue. But if all of them went away I wouldn't have a problem with that. Lately I forget to pick them up, unless I see that big, bright red one glowing somewhere that I can get to it fast.

[mattycutts]

ok heres a example,

 

other night, we get a pop, its TDM, my team is made of me and one other decent player, rest all were two ships, be unskilled or new etc but me and this other guy only experienced guys, and im good but the other team consisted of 10 people with 5 ships, one guy with 4, and one guy with 2, pritty much certain death.

 

Me and this guy did our best to direct our team etc, at one point score was 40 to them, and 10 to us, i was running my scout for this, and went for the damage overcharge, and pulled a massive chunk back on score to something like 50-41, was it over powered? hell no, i used some damn skill ducking and weaving hit and run each gunship, having every one target me, did i kill them all? nope they watched me that close didnt see my other experienced mate picking them off 1 by 1 lol damage overcharge has its place and uses and not all time to actually kill people just get some attention, throw people off balence.

[Altheran]

Why is it better if it stops working with HK-51's copilot ability and doesn't stack with crit talents?

 

 

It's fine the way it is IMO. I really like that it offers a change of pace by making someone very deadly temporarily.

To make sure the damage don't attain the realm of madness. In its current form I only need two shots to take down my ennemies, three for bombers. I don't even have to use my missiles (and don't even have the time for that). If I'd were to use HK ability, it will be even more crazy than it already is.

[TRFWesVos]

But here's the problem: the damage overcharge is so good and its presence is such a huge gamechanger, especially against uninformed opponents (of which there are many, because wut's matchmaking), that you are almost guaranteed a better K/D ratio if you hunt out red dots for most of the match than if you hunt out enemy ships. And in a game match that is all about KDR, well, that's kind of a problem.

 

It's not fun for me to hunt out the red dots, so I don't. If I happen to see one while I'm chasing someone, you can bet your **** I'll break off to grab it. And that's fine, in my opinion -- I have to weigh the risks (taking a predictable flight path, which might get me shot down by a gunship or something, and losing my target, who might survive because I'm not pursuing him) against the rewards (getting the powerup!). But at the same time, I know I'm not performing as optimally as if I spent my time searching for powerups full time.

 

This is called a dominant strategy, and it's bad game design.

 

Games are, at their heart, all about problem solving. When we play GSF, we're solving a bunch of problems -- what's the optimal set of components for my playstyle? What strategies and tactics can I employ to kill my enemies? What strategies and tactics can I employ to win the match? Once these problems are solved, we start to "burn out". (I'm sure you've all seen similar in ops and in other games -- someone plays the game too much, gets too used to doing the same thing, and stops playing. They've solved all the problems, and they get no more enjoyment from going through the motions.) I could expand on this, but Jesse Schell has literally written a book on the subject, so I'll simply recommend his The Art of Game Design for anyone interested.

 

This is why we as players are so eager for new content. And when the content is just rehashed versions of what we've already done with few changes, well, it's simply not as interesting.

 

Flying in space PvP is generally interesting because you're never sure what the other team is going to do. Each combination of enemy pilots and enemy ships provides a different challenge, and there's often different solutions. That's why I love PvP; no two fights (against skilled opponents) are alike, and I have to adjust my tactics on the fly if I want to win. It's challenging and interesting.

 

But when the dominant strategy is found, matches become predictable -- and when gameplay is predictable, it becomes stale and boring. No new challenges are presented, no new problems need to be solved, and players lose interest. There's no challenge or surprise in picking up a blackbolt and zooming around the map looking for damage overcharge, then turning my lasers on whichever poor saps happen to be closest. The same thing happens every time: I fly along this path, I pick up the big red dot, I hit tab, I boost to the nearest enemy, and I click on him twice. Continue tabbing until DO runs out, then go back to searching for red dots. Hell, a bot could do that -- why should I?

 

I also strongly disagree with the concept of powerups, especially in a story-based game like SWTOR. Why do they exist? Why do they defy gravity? Why are they so powerful? Where the hell were they on the Death Star runs? I agree that there needs to be some element preventing people from forming killballs and rolling across the map, but I think shiny powerup balls were the wrong answer... and when they're so powerful as to form a dominant strategy, well, the whole system is just bad and needs to be reworked.

 

*Not liable for asses lost as a result of foolish bets placed with parties including but not limited to Satan.

 

This. So much this. Bombers and gunships I can deal with. I think they need to be modified to better fit their niche role, but I can accept them. Powerups, though, have no place in this game unless there is a justifiable story reason for them to be there. Otherwise I'm just playing an arcade game, which is not why I'm paying Bioware every month.

[SammyGStatus]

But this isn't a new game - it's a enw game mode. Does Huttball sense? No, but we play it anyway. It's fun to alter your strategy, and having the powerups allow new players to take out the vets (even on a new GS, damage overcharge can still 1 shot).

[TRFWesVos]

But this isn't a new game - it's a enw game mode. Does Huttball sense? No, but we play it anyway. It's fun to alter your strategy, and having the powerups allow new players to take out the vets (even on a new GS, damage overcharge can still 1 shot).

 

Actually, I don't play Huttball.

 

Even so, Huttball at least has lore behind it. There's a story point to it, even if the story point is silly (which, IMO, it is). Powerups don't.

 

In addition to the previous point, what's wrong with a killball? Whenever I see a killball, it's frustrating to me as a solo player (I have no mic, so I'm out of luck when it comes to fighting with or against a well-organized voice-chat pre-made squadron), but that is the heart of this game. The purpose is to form and use squadron tactics, not just solo dogfighting. Whenever I come up against a killball, I tip my cap and try to stay to the outside and pick off the ones who aren't part of it. That tells me they're using good tactics. Powerups, and damage overcharge in particular, are defeating the purpose of good squadron tactics.

[Itkovian]

The other problem is that it encourages gameplay outside of what's intended and expected in a deathmatch.

 

Pretty much this. Ultimately it means the best way to win TDM is to load a zippy little thing and hunt all the power ups, then turn and fight the moment you get DO, grab a few quick kills, and run away and grab more power ups once its done.

 

There's no real counter to this, except doing the same thing to prevent the other side from getting the DO. The logical conclusion is a mode intended to be a fun starfighter combat mosh pit turns into a game of chase-the-red-ball. Even the bomber ball meta is more enjoyable than this.

 

I'd suggest nerfing it so it is more in line with the other power ups: a nice-to-have bonus that does not turn you into a murder machine. That way it's something good to pick up when you see it, but it isn't so powerful that you'd be better off doing nothing but running around to find it so you could get a bunch of kills in a few seconds.

 

Power ups are there to add some zest to the gameplay, not to completely re-define it like DO does right now.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Itkovian

[SammyGStatus]

Pretty much this. Ultimately it means the best way to win TDM is to load a zippy little thing and hunt all the power ups, then turn and fight the moment you get DO, grab a few quick kills, and run away and grab more power ups once its done.

 

There's no real counter to this, except doing the same thing to prevent the other side from getting the DO.

 

Assuming that the person with damage over charge can't be one shotted by a GS... But 90% of the time if you're a scout and I see you going for a damage overcharge, you're either sniped outta the sky approaching it, or getting sniped right after it's picked up. Damage doesn't increase evasion, so they're ability to be shot at isn't diminished. Kill them before they kill you (hence the purpose of TDM)

[Verain]

Threads like this are just such a waste.