To the people running HM Ops.

[ObscureKnight]

I have a question to those of you who are consistently running the HM ops.

 

1. When / if you take a guildie on a HM run do you guys require that they are min / maxed out in gear and augments?

2. Do you require their gear be a certain spec, for example a sorc heals with no alacrity (again not min maxed here) and stacked on nothing but power? Or is there a spot where as long as they are in 78's they can come along?

3. Must they have all set pieces, or is partial set okay?

4. How much knowledge of fights (You can watch vids all day, but one has to learn some time first hand).

 

I understand the importance of being as high geared as possible and as specced appropriately, but I ask this since I am seeing several in game variances, all depending upon the group. I got told the other day that my main hand wasn't good enough (not all mods were to "spec" of raid leader) and I had one piece of gear not to the raid leaders liking. The main hand ticked me off some since most pugs I get into are 16 man, and every guild run they take all the mats so it prevents having said mats on hand to have a mod crafted.

 

I expect some sarcastic answers here, but I really am looking for a genuine input so as to get a feel of the server in terms of where one must be in order to be "good enough" to play such content.

[Brat-a-tat-]

1. When / if you take a guildie on a HM run do you guys require that they are min / maxed out in gear and augments?

For DF and DP HM, even guildies need to be augmented and know thier class well enough to know what gear they SHOULD have on. They don't need to be min/maxed par se, but they need to be able to pull their own weight.

 

2. Do you require their gear be a certain spec, for example a sorc heals with no alacrity (again not min maxed here) and stacked on nothing but power? Or is there a spot where as long as they are in 78's they can come along?

I don't require a certain spec, as long as you can pull the numbers I don't care what spec you are. Now that being said we have specific strats that work for us. If a certain class or spec won't work with our strats, I am not going to reorganize the whole raid I'll just find someone else.

 

3. Must they have all set pieces, or is partial set okay?

Depends on the class some need the 4 piece. Some just need a 2 piece. But I will take someone that knows the fights in unoptimized 78's over someone with a 4 piece bonus.

 

4. How much knowledge of fights (You can watch vids all day, but one has to learn some time first hand).

It depends on how much time I want to spend talking. If the raid just wants to get in and plow through stuff, I'll take experienced first, but if we are teaching a new raiding, or gearing up alts, then anyone that is capable can come.

 

I have been called an elitist on the forums and in game before because I expect people to know their class. I will give anyone a chance to show me I'm wrong, but it won't be on a raid day where 6-7 other people are expecting me to run a raid that isn't fail.

[DuEldrvarya]

The above isn't bad. For all the current content bar hateful, there is absolutely no reason in the world a player in full 72s can't clear.

 

That being say the most important thing is knowing your class... and having raid awareness.

 

I know quite a few healers to clear hm dp/df with no alacrity and full acc. (their heals cant miss woot!) and I know one or two dps to pull 2700+ on hm df/dp (on certain bosses) in healer gear without any acc.

 

Honestly, I would always take a player that knows their class and knows basic raid mechanics but is in inferior gear than a min/max'd player that doesn't pull his weight.

[Mefistofles]

I am going to assume you are a sorc healer, and since I play a sorc healer in HM ops alt runs and have lead groups from time to time, I'll answer it from that perspective:

 

1. When / if you take a guildie on a HM run do you guys require that they are min / maxed out in gear and augments?

Augments yes, it shows you have put in the time/effort into gearing your character on your own.

Min/maxed no, although it helps if you ask a group to run you through HM S&V/TFB to get as many min-maxed 72s as possible. As a sorc, you can also min/max your mods on your own through Ultimate comms gear.

 

2. Do you require their gear be a certain spec, for example a sorc heals with no alacrity (again not min maxed here) and stacked on nothing but power? Or is there a spot where as long as they are in 78's they can come along?

First question - pretty sure a sorc heals wants alacrity and doesn't want to stack only power (at least not on augments). We do want to see demonstrated knowledge of class and spec. With gear, if you can tell the raid leader what gear you need and from where, you have helpful knowledge.

Second question - that depends on player skill, although we can carry players. If you are in unaugmented 78s at this point, we are more likely to believe you are an alt (sent gear through legacy) or lazy or new/unexperienced, so that can prejudice skill evaluations.

3. Must they have all set pieces, or is partial set okay?

For sorc healers, set pieces are important, although not strictly mandatory if you can be carried. Little reason that you shouldn't have at least 69 set armorings at this point because of SM raiding, unless you are new. In many cases, 69 set pieces have better enhancements than 78 Oriconian. Personally, I'd rather take a sorc healer with 4 69 set armorings over one with all 78 Oriconian armorings.

 

4. How much knowledge of fights (You can watch vids all day, but one has to learn some time first hand).

An earnest player coming into HM DF/DP at this point has watched fight videos, read fight guides, and knows what to look out for prior to entering the fight. Learning by doing is a small complementary piece for a good player, except for fights with multiple mechanics.

 

The main hand ticked me off some since most pugs I get into are 16 man, and every guild run they take all the mats so it prevents having said mats on hand to have a mod crafted.

It is a positive that you are doing 16 person pugs - for more ultimate comms. Already went over mods. I assume your hilt is at least 72; if not, do work and get one crafted. Itemized enhancements are tougher to come by. I'd let those slide if you came in to a raid I was running, but I might ask what effort you made to get itemized 69/72 enhancements.

[DuEldrvarya]

So funny enough the players from the better guilds have less gear requirements than the players from the weaker guilds... This may seem backwards, but in reality it makes sense.

 

The best guilds on this server expect you to understand fundamentally your spec to an extent that gearing issues become a secondary or tertiary concern.

(also better guilds tend to have bigger backpacks for carrying).

 

Again, while it should be uber straight-forward to gear a toon with the proper type (even if not the bis ones) of enhancements, I have done and seen done full clears of hm df/dp with healers with 100/110 acc and dps with 104% acc and 470 Alacrity.

[AAntan]

So funny enough the players from the better guilds have less gear requirements than the players from the weaker guilds... This may seem backwards, but in reality it makes sense.

 

This is because anyone can go do the weeklies on 16m SM get a lot of Ultimate comms and get crappy 78 (Well not that crappy actually, only the enhancements suck), not to mention that people still think you need full 72 to run HM TFB/SV or have at least half Oricronian for HM DF/DP. And last but not least, people thinking high endurance means better gear and therefore more skill/experience (which is ridiculous).

Edited February 21, 2014 by AAntan

[DuEldrvarya]

Not gonna disagree with you there Lorm! Still laugh at 3 healing df and dp 16m sm with one healer being lvl 50.

[Lotharofxev]

Ya know, once you learn * BASIC * mechanics and target priority, HM isn't that H.

[ObscureKnight]

Thanks for the responses. I know the guild names you guys represent and give weight to your input.

 

How I wish to have crossed paths with some of you in game. To answer a previous question, I actually have one of each version of the AC's out there, but main is a sage (heals), also have an operative heals, Sorc DPS, and a jug tank. Yeah I do not have a 72 hilt yet for the sage, still lacking in the MMG's to get one crafted, but in the works of trying to get them. I do however have the Operative with a 72 main hand.

 

I have run with a specific group on the imperial side and have seen how those who know the fight and order of importance versus the endurance qualifier pugs. I do not by any means claim to be a kick *** player of my class, but I can pull my own weight, with some carrying every now and then, depending on which of my toons I am on.

 

Again I was just curious, been running with groups that I have know for a good while and it feels like no matter how much I put into one toon, there is always a "dis-qualifier" as to not going on HM runs.

[countpopeula]

I require daily foot rubs and mouth hugs from everyone who raids in my guild.

 

Gear doesn't matter, player skill does. I've tanked HM DF/DP with a 58 barrel without an issue.

Edited February 21, 2014 by countpopeula

[Rehneu]

1. When / if you take a guildie on a HM run do you guys require that they are min / maxed out in gear and augments?

 

Not at all.

2. Do you require their gear be a certain spec, for example a sorc heals with no alacrity (again not min maxed here) and stacked on nothing but power? Or is there a spot where as long as they are in 78's they can come along?

 

This is your game so you spec the way you find the most enjoyable. We may make some suggestions if we see that you need assistance but, it is no place of ours to dictate to anyone how they spec their character, what class they play in a role nor how they gear out. We will inspect at times and again, make suggestions.

3. Must they have all set pieces, or is partial set okay?

 

Not at all and partial is fine.

4. How much knowledge of fights (You can watch vids all day, but one has to learn some time first hand).

 

We encourage you to do some research if you have never been in a certain raid before however, we will also go over the fights if need be. Mistakes happen by everyone and it is a learning experience. It is also how guides are made in the first place. Trial and error. A good team will be able to adapt and over come and move forward.

I understand the importance of being as high geared as possible and as specced appropriately, but I ask this since I am seeing several in game variances, all depending upon the group. I got told the other day that my main hand wasn't good enough (not all mods were to "spec" of raid leader) and I had one piece of gear not to the raid leaders liking. The main hand ticked me off some since most pugs I get into are 16 man, and every guild run they take all the mats so it prevents having said mats on hand to have a mod crafted.

 

I personally disagree with this loot practice when pugs are part of the scenario. My guild allows for everyone to roll on mats and make it a greed roll. We make sure that the people that have never run with us before are aware of this and the rest of our loot rules.

I expect some sarcastic answers here, but I really am looking for a genuine input so as to get a feel of the server in terms of where one must be in order to be "good enough" to play such content.

 

 

We have always had this mindset and it provides for a relaxed atmosphere while moving forward in the content. At that, we have 3 raid teams currently, a fourth in the making, and will not include our republic side raid group that is also getting some solid time in. We go out there to have fun and try to make sure that everyone walks away with something they may have needed. Of course, we can't guarantee that but we try.

[Brat-a-tat-]

As a side note, on all guild runs (at least 6 guildies, and one of use is leading it) we do take all mats for the bank, but we tell people up front. The catch is people can buy them back from the bank at half market value. We offer that option to everyone in the raid first, Pugs included. If multiple people want to buy them they roll off. On complete pug runs, everyone just needs.

[Zalindae]

I recall taking a sorc healer one time to a HM DF raid, looking at his gear, and telling him to put on his PvP Obroan gear. He did perfectly fine having NEVER been in there before healing in 67's. Skill trumps gear.

 

However, with that being said, if I were to take someone that I did not know and had no measure of their skill level beforehand. I would prefer to take someone that had a higher gear level and min/maxed gear with augments. Most of the people that take the time to min/max and augment their gear show that they care for that character and most likely have a higher skill level with that class. This is not always 100% true, but who takes the time to gear their characters in full 78 min/maxed augmented gear that suck at playing them besides me? I'm running out of places to put this gear wtb NiM content.

 

And as to some guilds having higher or lower standards than others, some guilds have different levels of "carry". This is not to knock other guilds that have higher requirements. Everyone sets their own standards.

[ObscureKnight]

As a side note, on all guild runs (at least 6 guildies, and one of use is leading it) we do take all mats for the bank, but we tell people up front. The catch is people can buy them back from the bank at half market value. We offer that option to everyone in the raid first, Pugs included. If multiple people want to buy them they roll off. On complete pug runs, everyone just needs.

 

Not everyone does this. And when I pug a run in attempt to get mats I am normally out numbered on the rolls. I have only won a couple so far.

[Typeslice]

We very rarely pug, but as far as non-normal rotation guildies go - we don't really have any requirements of them gear or fight knowledge wise (as long as its not current progression).

[Levram]

So funny enough the players from the better guilds have less gear requirements than the players from the weaker guilds.

 

This is quite true. I know that for our guild runs, anyone can bring any character they personally would like to run. We know they have the skill to clear the content, and the player will use their judgement on how much of a "carry burden" they will be without preventing a clear.

 

When we invite players from outside our guild into runs to fill spots, we try to invite from a known pool of players first. These are people we've run with in the past and we're confident that they have the skill to clear the content. No gear requirements are imposed. As an example, we ran a DP (HM/8m) alt run this weekend with a majority PUG drawn from my friend's list and the PUG operative healer had a 66 main and off hand and I think some 58s mixed into his gear (i.e. no where close to what he "should" have had.) I didn't even notice what the state of his gear was until Raptus, and I only noticed then because someone in voice chat made a joke about it. We still cleared in a one-shot, so *shrug.* I suppose, looking back, his 33k HP should have been a tip off, but I knew he was skilled so HP didn't even register with me.

 

For a "pure" PUG player (i.e. being pulled out of general Fleet chat) I will specify some basics to help filter out the truly under-geared who don't even know it. Also, we have no idea about the quality of the player we're taking so we're trying to find someone who cares/knows enough to at least gear correctly. For DP (HM/8m) a message like "Please be in augmented 72/78 with appropriate set-bonus" is the most I would say. When they join I don't even bother to inspect them. I just trust that they met the requirement. I'll usually take a glance at their legacy achievements for the operation we're running, but even that is only to help me determine how detailed my explanations and raid calls need to be.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Levram

[Dage]

1. When / if you take a guildie on a HM run do you guys require that they are min / maxed out in gear and augments?

It depends on the content. If we're talking NiM progression runs, the best players with the best gear and skill will make it in with priority. If we're talking about old content/non-progression content, then pretty much anyone is welcome. All the 16-man HMs available are doable with less than 16-man for the moment your core group can handle it. From there you can carry people that have very bad gear or are new to the mechanics. Having people fully min/maxed is nice as it makes everything faster but we usually do without to get earpieces, relics and implants to everyone's alts. As stated before, a player's gear isn't the end all and be all, skill has a large impact on performance.

 

2. Do you require their gear be a certain spec, for example a sorc heals with no alacrity (again not min maxed here) and stacked on nothing but power? Or is there a spot where as long as they are in 78's they can come along?

We require our players to be smart, that's all. If you told me stacking alacrity (Hello ubber fast Master Strike ) on my sentinel would give me the best dps gear can buy, I would do it. I expect that all players willing to do progression are always trying to get better. That sometimes means changing specs or gear to do so. It's not always necessary, but it does happen. I used to be a main Watchman Sent, then Combat Sent, and now, when required, DotSmash or just Smash. Again, there is always room for carry in most content if people just love a subpar spec or class to a fault

 

3. Must they have all set pieces, or is partial set okay?

Again depends on the content and on how easy you want your experience to be.

 

4. How much knowledge of fights (You can watch vids all day, but one has to learn some time first hand).

No prior knowledge required. It sure helps and saves time, but we all had to learn at one point. Also, as mentioned before, most fights leave room for carrying someone new to the mechanics.

 

And as to some guilds having higher or lower standards than others, some guilds have different levels of "carry". This is not to knock other guilds that have higher requirements. Everyone sets their own standards.

 

Put a paper bag over their face and all players look fine to me. Good from far but far from good