Kaggath Tournament: The Dark Imperium vs the Alliance of Worlds

[Wolfninjajedi]

Not the computers... seriously, they don't use Rakata computers on the Harrowers or the OCF and they don't use Rakata communication systems. At the very least he knows everything they're doing by hacking their communication networks and OCF command ships which would be far easier to hack anyway and contain the DI's naval plans. The DI at the start has no idea about IG-88 so they won't suspect a droid hacking them like this.

Sel, Rakata tech is cool and Traya is powerful but some of these claims are stretching reason.

 

For instance, you use Traya's rather random prediction about an event extremely far in the future to support your claim her foresight is pinpoint accurate and detailed. Not even Sidious could do that. I'm not making the claim she can't foresee at all, but I highly doubt it is as effective, detailed, and controlled (for instance giving the exact information she wants) as you make it out to be. She can foresee, but I don't think she;d be able to foresee every attack, every play the AoW does. No SW character has ever been shown to be capable of that, I don't think she is.

 

Also, Rakata tech is not understood by the Empire or Republic and they say so plenty of times. It is reversed engineered to the best of their ability. It isn't as effective as pure Rakata tech and the Stealth Fleet (the ONLY users of Rakata tech in this match) only has bolstered effectiveness for their normal weapons with it, but they are still Sith Empire ships with the same computers, freshers, turbolifts, and hanger bays as always. The shields are better, the weapons are better... it isn't a trump card whenever someone poses an opposing theory.

 

Now, my real point here... IG-88 can hack the Stealth Fleet through the OCF since they'd have to be designed to send and receive data from one another. He can hack an OCF and from there weasel his way into the Stealth Fleet. We're talking about a droid that hacked and uploaded himself into the deadliest weapon in the galaxy.

 

Well he actually made a false computer core identical to the DS 2 computer core from the plans he got, so he didn't really so much hack into the DS 2, he just placed himself proper to take control of the entire station.

 

It still is a great feat, considering that he thought of the plan and a way to get into the 2nd DS, but he didn't really hack into it.

 

Still his hacking is on a planetary scale anyhow.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Yes because the security is really going to be as lax as it was then, totally won't be expecting him or have the data he is looking for in any old database.

 

Oh and just to point this out.... the DI could easily plant false information into the Database to throw the AoW off, most easy thing to do is falsify the location of the MSF, problem solved.

 

He can still hack it doesnt matter how good the security is, he has hacked the most sophisticated systems from the safety of his ship.

 

Oh yes give the OCF false info about the in combat Movements of the MSF so they can run into the MSF both revealing its location and destroying 2 or more ships in the process that will go well.

 

A stealth fleet needs to be in communication with a visible one. The information needs to be accurate or they run into each other. Encryption is easily broken by IG-88 so that wont help either.

[tunewalker]

^ did it on Mechis. Hence why I'm so taken with his abilities.

 

You know what all yours and wolfs for now, you guys know he can "hack it" .

[LadyKulvax]

He can still hack it doesnt matter how good the security is, he has hacked the most sophisticated systems from the safety of his ship.

 

Oh yes give the OCF false info about the in combat Movements of the MSF so they can run into the MSF both revealing its location and destroying 2 or more ships in the process that will go well.

 

A stealth fleet needs to be in communication with a visible one. The information needs to be accurate or they run into each other. Encryption is easily broken by IG-88 so that wont help either.

 

Actually, you missed that entire point, as I said before, the only person who needs to know all of this is Trench, literally that is it, he is planning all of this and he is in command, so he can use an extreme secure line to give the MSF the orders required and let them do the rest themselves.

 

Also, by planting false information, I mean leave it there for him to find, none of the crew needs to bother with it, Trench knows the true, he'll just have Hk-47 plant the information himself, as part of his trap.

 

As soon as Hk sees this information being download, he traces the source of the download, fires up an interdiction field, blasts the ship on the spot with any number of Heavy SPHA Turbolaser Cannons, GG for the IG.

[Selenial]

He can still hack it doesnt matter how good the security is, he has hacked the most sophisticated systems from the safety of his ship.

 

Oh yes give the OCF false info about the in combat Movements of the MSF so they can run into the MSF both revealing its location and destroying 2 or more ships in the process that will go well.

 

A stealth fleet needs to be in communication with a visible one. The information needs to be accurate or they run into each other. Encryption is easily broken by IG-88 so that wont help either.

 

I don't know how big you think Space is... But no.

 

They'll be on the opposite sides of the battlefield.

[Wolfninjajedi]

You know what all yours and wolfs for now, you guys know he can "hack it" .

 

I'm good, just chiming in whenever, don't leave your own faction Tune!

[Aurbere]

Here's a thought, Sel:

 

"All warfare is deception. We lead our opponent in the wrong direction in order to gain victory. It's called 'strategy.'"

 

I'm sure you know what to do, but here's my plan.

 

Let Wedge Antilles conquer a few worlds, play the role of Supreme Commander. It matters not. Trench can play defense while we work in the shadows to undermine the Alliance.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Here's a thought, Sel:

 

"All warfare is deception. We lead our opponent in the wrong direction in order to gain victory. It's called 'strategy.'"

 

I'm sure you know what to do, but here's my plan.

 

Let Wedge Antilles conquer a few worlds, play the role of Supreme Commander. It matters not. Trench can play defense while we work in the shadows to undermine the Alliance.

 

That seems something like the Alliance would do too Aurbere considering that's what they pretty much did against the GE. The deception/shadows thing I mean.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Actually, you missed that entire point, as I said before, the only person who needs to know all of this is Trench, literally that is it, he is planning all of this and he is in command, so he can use an extreme secure line to give the MSF the orders required and let them do the rest themselves.

 

Also, by planting false information, I mean leave it there for him to find, none of the crew needs to bother with it, Trench knows the true, he'll just have Hk-47 plant the information himself, as part of his trap.

 

As soon as Hk sees this information being download, he traces the source of the download, fires up an interdiction field, blasts the ship on the spot with any number of Heavy SPHA Turbolaser Cannons, GG for the IG.

 

IG-88 isnt hidden he is taking part in the battle, just like every one else dodging enemy fire as he has done while doing this before. Also there is no such thing as a secure line with 88, you also dont know he is there, to even defend against this because, if i recall correctly, the only one the factions know about are the leader and second in command.

 

Traya's visions arent that accurate she didnt know the name of the mandalorian nor did she know the jedi nor did she know the circumstance as to which he was slain, because if she did she may not have said to easily. Again much of her speech was in riddile and it was all done on her death bed in the most clear moment of her life never before or since duplicated. Its not clear that she can duplicate it herself, and the accuracies already in question any way.

[tunewalker]

Here's a thought, Sel:

 

"All warfare is deception. We lead our opponent in the wrong direction in order to gain victory. It's called 'strategy.'"

 

I'm sure you know what to do, but here's my plan.

 

Let Wedge Antilles conquer a few worlds, play the role of Supreme Commander. It matters not. Trench can play defense while we work in the shadows to undermine the Alliance.

 

Wedge only needs 1.... take out Seinar's ability to produce and wipe out the few intradictions they made and he controls movement on the battle feild. He can choose when and where a fight takes place and for how long.

[Aurbere]

That seems something like the Alliance would do too Aurbere considering that's what they pretty much did against the GE. The deception/shadows thing I mean.

 

The stealth and subterfuge is most effective for the Imperium because of its stealth fleet. In this case, the Imperium is afforded the ability to wage stateless warfare with the advantage afforded to them through stealth. No doubt the Alliance can wage this type of war, but not nearly as effectively. I've argued that, because of their experience with this tactic, Wedge and co. can find some way to deal with that tactic.

 

However, the fact remains that stealth makes this type of tactic easier.

[tunewalker]

The stealth and subterfuge is most effective for the Imperium because of its stealth fleet. In this case, the Imperium is afforded the ability to wage stateless warfare with the advantage afforded to them through stealth. No doubt the Alliance can wage this type of war, but not nearly as effectively. I've argued that, because of their experience with this tactic, Wedge and co. can find some way to deal with that tactic.

 

However, the fact remains that stealth makes this type of tactic easier.

 

Agreed on all accounts. I just feel its rough for them to try to do this because the moment they lose the producer of their intradictors and their vunerable intradictors this becomes infinitely more difficult for them, but ultimately agreed.

[Aurbere]

Wedge only needs 1.... take out Seinar's ability to produce and wipe out the few intradictions they made and he controls movement on the battle feild. He can choose when and where a fight takes place and for how long.

 

All the while a powerful fleet of invisible warships harasses your worlds and an invisible foe is striking down your soldiers and destroying your infrastructure.

 

Wedge can't choose where the fight takes place unless he finds a way to mitigate the effectiveness of stealth tactics.

[LadyKulvax]

IG-88 isnt hidden he is taking part in the battle, just like every one else dodging enemy fire as he has done while doing this before. Also there is no such thing as a secure line with 88, you also dont know he is there, to even defend against this because, if i recall correctly, the only one the factions know about are the leader and second in command.

 

Good-luck surviving 10,000 incoming fighters then, also Hk-47 could quite easily just plant a virus with the falsified information and render IG inert, safeguarding the intelligence of the fleet.

 

Traya's visions arent that accurate she didnt know the name of the mandalorian nor did she know the jedi nor did she know the circumstance as to which he was slain, because if she did she may not have said to easily. Again much of her speech was in riddile and it was all done on her death bed in the most clear moment of her life never before or since duplicated. Its not clear that she can duplicate it herself, and the accuracies already in question any way.

 

She also had most of her Force Connection severed at that point, you also assume that all of her foresight came at that moment in the Trayus Core, yet she clearly tells the Exile, on the Ebon Hawk, that she knows how the Galactic Republic is taken down by words and an Empire raised in it's place, just one of many times she shows that her foresight isn't restricted to her dying moments and the effects of the Trayus Core, your assumption is quite clearly wrong.

[Aurbere]

Agreed on all accounts. I just feel its rough for them to try to do this because the moment they lose the producer of their intradictors and their vunerable intradictors this becomes infinitely more difficult for them, but ultimately agreed.

 

You know more about your leaders than I do, can they find a way to limit the effectiveness of stateless warfare of this type?

[Aurbere]

Good-luck surviving 10,000 incoming fighters then, also Hk-47 could quite easily just plant a virus with the falsified information and render IG inert, safeguarding the intelligence of the fleet.

 

I thought factions were only aware of the leader and second-in-command...

[Wolfninjajedi]

The stealth and subterfuge is most effective for the Imperium because of its stealth fleet. In this case, the Imperium is afforded the ability to wage stateless warfare with the advantage afforded to them through stealth. No doubt the Alliance can wage this type of war, but not nearly as effectively. I've argued that, because of their experience with this tactic, Wedge and co. can find some way to deal with that tactic.

 

However, the fact remains that stealth makes this type of tactic easier.

 

True, but that doesn't mean it'll be 100%.. Hm, hm...you know what I just remember though? This is completely off topic btw...well not really.

 

But Wedge is a boss pilot, just him in an A-wing he took out 2 squadrons of TIE Hunters.

[StarSquirrel]

Actually, you missed that entire point, as I said before, the only person who needs to know all of this is Trench, literally that is it, he is planning all of this and he is in command, so he can use an extreme secure line to give the MSF the orders required and let them do the rest themselves.

 

Also, by planting false information, I mean leave it there for him to find, none of the crew needs to bother with it, Trench knows the true, he'll just have Hk-47 plant the information himself, as part of his trap.

 

As soon as Hk sees this information being download, he traces the source of the download, fires up an interdiction field, blasts the ship on the spot with any number of Heavy SPHA Turbolaser Cannons, GG for the IG.

 

Trench doesn't know though... that's the point. I was under the impression that allies are unknown at the start, IG-88 could literally infest the systems and plant viruses through the systems and then in a single blow bring the entire thing down (all comps on all ships). Or he could rig the nav system to make a bad jump... any number of things that would eliminate Trench and/or the entire navy in a single swipe. Then what? At that point IG-88 is already into the system and/or won the naval battle.

 

Btw, if HK-47 can be hacked like

I'm pretty sure IG-88 could easily bring him into the fold.

[tunewalker]

All the while a powerful fleet of invisible warships harasses your worlds and an invisible foe is striking down your soldiers and destroying your infrastructure.

 

Wedge can't choose where the fight takes place unless he finds a way to mitigate the effectiveness of stealth tactics.

 

Which worlds are they going to be hitting and how? A blockade is set up on the most direct root. if they go through their the stealth will mean for not as they are pulled out of hyperspace uncloaked. If they go around it will take them a very long time to get there by which time Wedge will have captured the one planet he needed to and interogated the suppliers potentially finding out about this and may be back by the time they get around.

 

Many of the Rebel scanners are good enough to pick up stealthed People and soldiers with life scanners and thermal scanners and electromagnetic scanners and the like, and they to have invisible soldiers both infiltrators and several Hapan Royal gaurd. Stealth counter measures as well as stealth tactics of their own. You know this.

[Aurbere]

True, but that doesn't mean it'll be 100%.. Hm, hm...you know what I just remember though? This is completely off topic btw...well not really.

 

But Wedge is a boss pilot, just him in an A-wing he took out 2 squadrons of TIE Hunters.

 

He's one of the best of all time.

[tunewalker]

True, but that doesn't mean it'll be 100%.. Hm, hm...you know what I just remember though? This is completely off topic btw...well not really.

 

But Wedge is a boss pilot, just him in an A-wing he took out 2 squadrons of TIE Hunters.

 

Ya and he has gone and piloted while commanding before I believe once in the Vong war... were i think he did the same thing with a gimped x-wing at the time.

[Aurbere]

Which worlds are they going to be hitting and how? A blockade is set up on the most direct root. if they go through their the stealth will mean for not as they are pulled out of hyperspace uncloaked. If they go around it will take them a very long time to get there by which time Wedge will have captured the one planet he needed to and interogated the suppliers potentially finding out about this and may be back by the time they get around.

 

Many of the Rebel scanners are good enough to pick up stealthed People and soldiers with life scanners and thermal scanners and electromagnetic scanners and the like, and they to have invisible soldiers both infiltrators and several Hapan Royal gaurd. Stealth counter measures as well as stealth tactics of their own. You know this.

 

You have interdictors?

[tunewalker]

Good-luck surviving 10,000 incoming fighters then, also Hk-47 could quite easily just plant a virus with the falsified information and render IG inert, safeguarding the intelligence of the fleet.

 

 

 

She also had most of her Force Connection severed at that point, you also assume that all of her foresight came at that moment in the Trayus Core, yet she clearly tells the Exile, on the Ebon Hawk, that she knows how the Galactic Republic is taken down by words and an Empire raised in it's place, just one of many times she shows that her foresight isn't restricted to her dying moments and the effects of the Trayus Core, your assumption is quite clearly wrong.

 

dont worry 5,000 rebel pilots a larger number of capital ships and a few hundred if not thousand freighters such as http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/YT-2400 have his back.

[LadyKulvax]

So apparently Traya's foresight is worthless right now, cus reasons...

 

Sel, you want to crack out the KotOR CG with me and have some fun?

[tunewalker]

You have interdictors?

 

Yes the picket ships when working in unison could act as an intredictor and better yet every Hapan battle dragon was equiped with Intridictor mines, and of course these dragons were both apart of my fleet and apart of my suppliers fleet so i can create them at either site.