2.7 Healing Changes discussion

[suicidalMan]

With the announcement of Surgical Precision now having a 6s internal CD, it's pretty much a sure thing op healers are going to have to live with come 2.7. With many PvE'ers feeling as though it would take away our "Oh Crap" heal I thought I'd list some possible augmentations or alternatives that I've seen that would still allow for BW to balance us for PvP situations like they are so intent on.

• Changes to PvE 4 piece set bonus
  
  • 
    swap PVE 4-piece from +5 energy to -3s reduction to SP internal Lockout
    OR
    
  • swap PVE 4-piece from +5 energy to +5% (or 10%) healing by SP to targets under 30%
    

[*]Changes to Skill Tree

• 
  Make Accomplished Doctor a 2 point talent (down from 3), increasing the surge bonus of KJ, KF, and RN by [15 / 30%]
  AND EITHER
  
• Make Surgical Precision a 2 point talent (up from 1), where 2 points in the talent reduces the internal CD by 3s
  OR
  
• Make Surgical Percision a 2 point talent (up from 1), each point in the talent increases healing done by SP by [2.5 /5% ] (or [5 / 10%] ) to targets under 30% max health
  

[*] Changes to KF

• Reduced Energy Cost, reduced CD, or applies armor Buff
  

If the dev's decided to change KF in the manner above, it would most certainly mean we would see its heal per cast reduced, a side effect some PvPers may find undesirable. If they elect to give it an armor buff, we would most likely see this as a Skill Tree talent rather than applying it directly to the base KF so as not to provide it to DPS builds in PvP.

 

We would be more likely to see changes to the 4-piece set bonus over changes to skill tree I listed above, as most healers in both PvP and PvE would end up grabbing them anyway. A change to the set bonus would mean PvPers would have to make a trade off of expertise to acquire it, though this may lead to a situation similar to the extra orbital tick even though you lost main stat, and the expertise loss here could potentially be offset by Bolster.

 

Thoughts anyone?

[sithBracer]

BW is not gonna do any of that. They are not even reading what you write.

[Yettofall]

they don't care for what you think or write, they are nerfing us. 2014 is the merc year

[GOLANX]

its inevitable the nerf hammer is gonna hit Surgical probe, but i don't think its bad to suggest a different nerf to theirs that could work better while still nerfing us. here is my idea: instead of the 6 sec CD on TA regrant, make it so that each time we use Surgical Probe in any situation will grant a debuff that will make the skill cost 5 (give or take) Energy, and it can stack maybe 3 or 4 times lasting for 8 seconds. this way er get to keep it for those oh crap moments, but we will expend energy while doing so, to the point where it is unsustainable. hopefullly as well this will mean we will start throwing in More DS to regenerate rather than Surgical probe.

 

perhaps they could buff DS too, its not as though high level Ops use it, to my knowledge, i'm only 54 with my op and she doesn't use DS anymore too weak of a heal not enough payoff, its like Merc's RS heal except it doesn't build charges of the Combat Support Cylinder.

[quirez]

I think the Operative/Scoundrel community is overreacting on this one. You dont have your emergency heal taken away. Since 2.7 you simply wont be able to spam that surgical probe into infinity - in my opinion its more of a PVP nerf that won't be that much noticable in PVE (it may be noticable in hardcore NIM content, but it will make OPs more similiar to other healers, not better as it was up till now, which is IMHO a good thing)

 

Why?

You will still be able to keep your target alive for a minimum of 4 GCDs - since its not a problem to have 3 TA stacked with all your probes running, the first surgical probe will re-grant TA + during that 4GCDs you have a big chance to proc another TA due to probes + after 1-2 seconds the proc to re-grant TA will be there again.

 

In PVE situation its ALOT of time for your co-healer to hit one or 2 heals thus effectively saving the target.

You won't be able to solo-heal the whole raid - but that is a good move that is taking OP healers into the same spot where sorcs and mercs are.

 

 

PVP is a different thing - this change will surely reduce your effectiveness, but guess what? You will still be the best healer for pvp content, no questions asked - it just shows how overpowered you were in it up till now. Bringing more balance to PVP healing IS good.

 

Personally i really like that changes - i mained an operative healer for quite some time (i play all 3 healers), and it was far easier to have the same or better effect with LESS effort, which is one of the main reasons why i abandoned that char.

 

they don't care for what you think or write, they are nerfing us. 2014 is the merc year

 

merc/commando are being brought closer to the level of other healers in terms of HPS, and for sure had their aoe healing improved, but they are still far, far away from being overpowered in PVE and they are probably still the worst healers for PVP (arguable). Also this class has the hardest energy management, while Ops energy management is almost non existant.

 

In fact the 2.6 + 2.7 changes make all 3 healers as close to being balanced as they have never been before.

 

+1 for the incoming changes.

[akabane_k]

1. if people are below 30% hp for more than a couple seconds, either you screwed up healing or someone messed up a mechanic.

2. if this is the case, you still shouldn't spam surgical probe. It has low hpct, its advantage it no cost. Its resource management, not burst healing.

 

Seriously, it will have almost no effect on pve.

Edited February 17, 2014 by akabane_k

[GOLANX]

1. if people are below 30% hp for more than a couple seconds, either you screwed up healing or someone messed up a mechanic.

2. if this is the case, you still shouldn't spam surgical probe. It has low hpct, its advantage it no cost. Its resource management, not burst healing.

 

Seriously, it will have almost no effect on pve.

 

if you have Kolto Probes up, and RN is not cutting the mustard, if you wait the 2 secs to cast, your target is dead. Surgical probe is for those times you don't have 2 seconds to stand and heal and if in PVE the circles start poping up around you, you really think its a good idea to stay in the circle and cast? its best not to die while healing allies

 

heck Surgical Probe is about the best heal we have in the game where you can kite around while using it that isn't a HOT or have a Cooldown.

 

as i stated before realizing that Bioware is going to nerf surgical probe i suggest an alternative nerf each time we use it it adds an energy cost making it hard to spam, while still giving us that option.

[JustBLaxin]

I think the Operative/Scoundrel community is overreacting on this one. You dont have your emergency heal taken away. Since 2.7 you simply wont be able to spam that surgical probe into infinity - in my opinion its more of a PVP nerf that won't be that much noticable in PVE (it may be noticable in hardcore NIM content, but it will make OPs more similiar to other healers, not better as it was up till now, which is IMHO a good thing)

 

Why?

You will still be able to keep your target alive for a minimum of 4 GCDs - since its not a problem to have 3 TA stacked with all your probes running, the first surgical probe will re-grant TA + during that 4GCDs you have a big chance to proc another TA due to probes + after 1-2 seconds the proc to re-grant TA will be there again.

 

In PVE situation its ALOT of time for your co-healer to hit one or 2 heals thus effectively saving the target.

You won't be able to solo-heal the whole raid - but that is a good move that is taking OP healers into the same spot where sorcs and mercs are.

 

 

PVP is a different thing - this change will surely reduce your effectiveness, but guess what? You will still be the best healer for pvp content, no questions asked - it just shows how overpowered you were in it up till now. Bringing more balance to PVP healing IS good.

 

Personally i really like that changes - i mained an operative healer for quite some time (i play all 3 healers), and it was far easier to have the same or better effect with LESS effort, which is one of the main reasons why i abandoned that char.

 

 

 

merc/commando are being brought closer to the level of other healers in terms of HPS, and for sure had their aoe healing improved, but they are still far, far away from being overpowered in PVE and they are probably still the worst healers for PVP (arguable). Also this class has the hardest energy management, while Ops energy management is almost non existant.

 

In fact the 2.6 + 2.7 changes make all 3 healers as close to being balanced as they have never been before.

 

+1 for the incoming changes.

 

Allow me to start off by saying, after reading the first paragraph of this, I'm assuming that you've never healed on an operative. Secondly, no, it does not make them on a level playing field with other healing classes. Ops do not have abilities that make them immune to interrupts like Mercs/Sorcs. So in a PvP world where instant casting is a huge benefit and seeing as with 2.7 Surgical Probe is being taken away as an instant cast without a CD, we have 1 being KP which does trash healing to begin with.

 

So, they have essentially gutted the healing which made Ops competitive in PvP and PvE. With the current changes and even with 2.6 live, its not at all difficult to get any speced Op to 30% without touching their resolve bar and then finishing them off. The community has asked repeatedly for better DCDs or just survivability in general, and the Devs have consistently refused to acknowledge these requests.

 

In the eyes of a vast majority of the Scoundrel/Operative community these changes are the backlash of a consistent QQ by players who do not know how to counter our class. Which, lets be honest, unless you're in healer spec, and really even then, is really not that hard to do. These changes to Surgical Probe, Jarring Strike and Exfiltrate, are by far the worst I have ever seen coming to Ops/Drels.

 

2.6 brought Mercs/Mandos to where they should've been healing wise, and if you're honestly saying that Ops/Drels will still be top dogs of healing come 2.7, you really need to check out how this will affect our EHPS. Mandos/Mercs recently hit the 2k+ mark, which is right behind Ops/Drels, and with the 2.7 changes to Sorcs/Sages, they will exceed us in EHPS. (seeing as Sorcs/Ops are nearly neck and neck in that respect already)

 

I can not tell you the countless times I have used Surgical Probe even on a target above 30% because its an instant cast, doesn't cost me energy, and Injection, which is quite an energy drain if you're low already, isn't viable. With the rest of my abilities on CD and I already have 2 stacks of KP on the target, and DS is just a trash ability in a pinch(or in general) and really should only be used for energy management. If you're saying that the Surgical Probe changes aren't huge, then you really are an idiot. It plays a vital importance in energy management just like Diagnostic Scan, cause you know, I pair the two together seeing as I'll get my TAs back from DS or my Kolto Probes and Surgical serves as my heal in place until I have my energy back to a reasonable level again.

 

So this whole argument that Surgical Probe is not as important an ability to healers as we're trying to make it sound, is a farce, to say the least. So please, if you want to talk about how healing Ops are so OP, maybe you should try rolling one and learn how important SP really is.

Edited February 26, 2014 by JustBLaxin

[JustBLaxin]

 

merc/commando are being brought closer to the level of other healers in terms of HPS, and for sure had their aoe healing improved, but they are still far, far away from being overpowered in PVE and they are probably still the worst healers for PVP (arguable). Also this class has the hardest energy management, while Ops energy management is almost non existant.

 

In fact the 2.6 + 2.7 changes make all 3 healers as close to being balanced as they have never been before.

 

+1 for the incoming changes.

 

If you really think Mercs/Mandos aren't at that level already you're an idiot. I've mained an Op for the last year, my first healer being a Merc, my Merc is currently on par or ahead of my Op depending on the fight. Learn your class.

[ArchangelLBC]

I can not tell you the countless times I have used Surgical Probe even on a target above 30% because its an instant cast, doesn't cost me energy, and Injection, which is quite an energy drain if you're low already, isn't viable. With the rest of my abilities on CD and I already have 2 stacks of KP on the target, and DS is just a trash ability in a pinch(or in general) and really should only be used for energy management. If you're saying that the Surgical Probe changes aren't huge, then you really are an idiot. It plays a vital importance in energy management just like Diagnostic Scan, cause you know, I pair the two together seeing as I'll get my TAs back from DS or my Kolto Probes and Surgical serves as my heal in place until I have my energy back to a reasonable level again.

 

You do realize they aren't removing surgical probe right? All they've done is make it so you can't endlessly spam SP on a target below 30%, which as mentioned, if your target is spending that long under 30% things have gone horribly wrong anyway. You'll still be able to get quite a bunch of the darn things off anyway since at any given time you can depend on having 3 TAs. From a start of 3 TAs you can do SP (get TA back) > SP > SP > Stim Boost> SP > Combat Stealth (full 3 TA now) > SP (get TA back) > SP > SP, and that's without getting any TA from HoTs. That's 7 GCDs or 10.5 seconds of absolutely nothing but SP spam. True it depends on having both of your CDs available, but even without those you can cast three SPs in a row without losing all your TAs, and you can do this every 6 seconds if the target starts under 30% HP. And if somewhere in that massive spam train the target stabalized over 30%, then you're exactly in the situation you are in right now.

 

It's a nerf, and it sucks, but saying that this change has gutted the healing which made operatives competitive in PVP and PVE is just ridiculous. You still have an energy neutral, spammable, HoT which grants you TA, you still have the easiset energy management of all three healers, and on and on and on. A nerf sure. Perhaps an overnerf? Well BW has been known to do that plenty of times. Operative healing isn't gutted by a long shot though.

[JustBLaxin]

You do realize they aren't removing surgical probe right? All they've done is make it so you can't endlessly spam SP on a target below 30%, which as mentioned, if your target is spending that long under 30% things have gone horribly wrong anyway. You'll still be able to get quite a bunch of the darn things off anyway since at any given time you can depend on having 3 TAs. From a start of 3 TAs you can do SP (get TA back) > SP > SP > Stim Boost> SP > Combat Stealth (full 3 TA now) > SP (get TA back) > SP > SP, and that's without getting any TA from HoTs. That's 7 GCDs or 10.5 seconds of absolutely nothing but SP spam. True it depends on having both of your CDs available, but even without those you can cast three SPs in a row without losing all your TAs, and you can do this every 6 seconds if the target starts under 30% HP. And if somewhere in that massive spam train the target stabalized over 30%, then you're exactly in the situation you are in right now.

 

It's a nerf, and it sucks, but saying that this change has gutted the healing which made operatives competitive in PVP and PVE is just ridiculous. You still have an energy neutral, spammable, HoT which grants you TA, you still have the easiset energy management of all three healers, and on and on and on. A nerf sure. Perhaps an overnerf? Well BW has been known to do that plenty of times. Operative healing isn't gutted by a long shot though.

 

Why would I waste my time using Surgical Probe like you're saying, waste a CD that I'll need in an intense healing phase all for the sake of spamming Surgical Probe? That's just idiotic to put it nicely. And have you ever healed HM Council? As in at all? Cause I'm fairly certain until you can get to Calphayus in phase 4, that people being under 30% happens quite frequently. Please shut up if you haven't run the class. I'm tired of people such as yourself who want to talk semantics over a class you've never run.

 

Surgical Probe is an energy management healing ability and the reason why its spammable to begin with, is because more often than not in those, "oh sh*t" situations, Surgical Probe serves as a fill in heal until Injection or Infusion can be gotten off to start getting the target to a reasonable level. Which, more often than not in those "oh sh*t" situations you're low on energy to begin with. So thank you for your invalid argument.

Edited February 26, 2014 by JustBLaxin

[ArchangelLBC]

Why would I waste my time using Surgical Probe like you're saying, waste a CD that I'll need in an intense healing phase all for the sake of spamming Surgical Probe? That's just idiotic to put it nicely. And have you ever healed HM Council? As in at all? Cause I'm fairly certain until you can get to Calphayus in phase 4, that people being under 30% happens quite frequently. Please shut up if you haven't run the class. I'm tired of people such as yourself who want to talk semantics over a class you've never run.

Surgical Probe is an energy management healing ability and the reason why its spammable to begin with, is because more often than not in those, "oh sh*t" situations, Surgical Probe serves as a fill in heal until Injection or Infusion can be gotten off to start getting the target to a reasonable level. Which, more often than not in those "oh sh*t" situations you're low on energy to begin with. So thank you for your invalid argument.

 

And I'm tired of people such as yourself who can't learn to read. The only thing that's changed, the ONLY THING THAT'S CHANGED, is that now you only get one refunded TA on a target below 30% health every 6 seconds. (1.xx of which is spent on the GCD you used to actually cast the thing). It STILL serves as a fill in heal, and an energy management heal. They haven't added a cooldown to it, they haven't added an energy cost to it. They added a lockout to the TA regrant.

 

None of the things you've cited which make SP useful have been affected in the slightest. ALL that has changed is your ability to use spam SP on targets that stabilize under 30%, in that now you only get one every 6 seconds without giving up any TAs at all.

 

Admittedly, the entire notion of just spamming SP is patently ridiculous, so serious question: in a given situation, like soft enrage on council, how many times on average would you say you're using SP in a row in these emergency situations? As you say, tons of SP spam is kind of idiotic just from a time spent perspective. If it's no more than 2 in a row on a low HP target, then absolutely nothing has changed :SP > SP > Injection results in no net change, and now you actually get something out of the TA granted by Injection, and SP > SP > Infusion still leaves you with one TA left assuming no procs gained from KP/RN. SP > SP > Infusion > SP did take a nerf (the third SP is still inside the lockout, and you only had 1 TA left after the Infusion). Is that really your bread and butter panic move?

 

Please educate me, because while I can see how this is annoying, I'm just not seeing how this has gutted PVE healing for operatives. All the benefits you've listed for using SP aren't going away.

[quirez]

Allow me to start off by saying, after reading the first paragraph of this, I'm assuming that you've never healed on an operative.

 

I've been maining an operative healer and running HM TFB and HM SnV on her. Left her before DF and DP appeared.

 

Secondly, no, it does not make them on a level playing field with other healing classes. Ops do not have abilities that make them immune to interrupts like Mercs/Sorcs. So in a PvP world where instant casting is a huge benefit and seeing as with 2.7 Surgical Probe is being taken away as an instant cast without a CD, we have 1 being KP which does trash healing to begin with.

 

Surgical Probe IS NOT BEING TAKEN AWAY. It will have reduced effectiveness AFTER the 4th cast of that skill - that still gives you 4gcd of spamming SP in PVE with a chance of gaining more TA in the meantime due to hots. I know that in PVP having stacked TA is almost non-existant, and thats why i said its a PVP nerf. Still it can happen and can allow you to save some1 for 2-4 gcds even in PVP, where it is a lot of time.

Also, an operative qqing about Mercs/sorcs interrupt immunity. Please...

 

So, they have essentially gutted the healing which made Ops competitive in PvP and PvE. With the current changes and even with 2.6 live, its not at all difficult to get any speced Op to 30% without touching their resolve bar and then finishing them off. The community has asked repeatedly for better DCDs or just survivability in general, and the Devs have consistently refused to acknowledge these requests.

 

I simply dont agree with anyone saying Operative Healers have low survability. Especially in comparison with other healers in PVP. In any scenario - be it, solo/unguarded, or with a pet-tank/guarded operative is harder to kill than merc/sorc. That will change in 2.7 for sure, but we dont yet know to what extent. Operatives will still be able (at least most of the time) to stealth out, Sorcs will usually have the chance to speed away LOS, H2F and Make Them Pay , and mercs - well will need to hit reactive shield+hydraulic overrides and hope they can soak up the dmg.

 

In the eyes of a vast majority of the Scoundrel/Operative community these changes are the backlash of a consistent QQ by players who do not know how to counter our class. Which, lets be honest, unless you're in healer spec, and really even then, is really not that hard to do. These changes to Surgical Probe, Jarring Strike and Exfiltrate, are by far the worst I have ever seen coming to Ops/Drels.

 

Changes to Jarring Strike are bad, totally bad. Changes to Surgical Probe and Exfiltrate in my opinion are good.

 

2.6 brought Mercs/Mandos to where they should've been healing wise, and if you're honestly saying that Ops/Drels will still be top dogs of healing come 2.7, you really need to check out how this will affect our EHPS. Mandos/Mercs recently hit the 2k+ mark, which is right behind Ops/Drels, and with the 2.7 changes to Sorcs/Sages, they will exceed us in EHPS. (seeing as Sorcs/Ops are nearly neck and neck in that respect already)

 

So we can agree that the healers will be more balanced after the changes, yes? Good. Also EHPS is important, but its not the most important thing. Merc may be topping EHPS now, especially in 16m, due to the spammed kolto shell, but it doesnt help against any burst dmg, it just mitigates low to medium raidwide dmg. We still need to cast alot in order to keep anyone alive.

 

I can not tell you the countless times I have used Surgical Probe even on a target above 30% because its an instant cast, doesn't cost me energy, and Injection, which is quite an energy drain if you're low already, isn't viable. With the rest of my abilities on CD and I already have 2 stacks of KP on the target, and DS is just a trash ability in a pinch(or in general) and really should only be used for energy management. If you're saying that the Surgical Probe changes aren't huge, then you really are an idiot. It plays a vital importance in energy management just like Diagnostic Scan, cause you know, I pair the two together seeing as I'll get my TAs back from DS or my Kolto Probes and Surgical serves as my heal in place until I have my energy back to a reasonable level again.

So this whole argument that Surgical Probe is not as important an ability to healers as we're trying to make it sound, is a farce, to say the least. So please, if you want to talk about how healing Ops are so OP, maybe you should try rolling one and learn how important SP really is.

 

Please show me where i said that SP is not an important skill. I healed on OP as well and i know how convenient this skill is, not only as an *oh sheet* spam button. Its overall a great skill, and one of the core mechanics for healing/energy management for operatives. Thing is, it was overpowered when you could spam it endlessly on targets below 30% - especially in pvp. It wasnt as overpowered in PVE - but it was something that other healers definitely couldnt do. @ eneregy management issues - you have, and after the changes you still will have the easiest energy management from all healers.

 

 

I still think you are overreacting - SP does not dissapear from your skillbar. You still have it, and you can still use it in the same way as before - you just cant do it until the seas dry out anymore - which is a good thing in my eyes.

 

I'm gonna shamelessly repeat myself - the 2.6 + 2.7 changes are the best healing balance changes i've seen in swtor.

Edited February 26, 2014 by quirez

[JustBLaxin]

I still think you are overreacting - SP does not dissapear from your skillbar. You still have it, and you can still use it in the same way as before - you just cant do it until the seas dry out anymore - which is a good thing in my eyes.

 

I'm gonna shamelessly repeat myself - the 2.6 + 2.7 changes are the best healing balance changes i've seen in swtor.

 

So name an ability that Ops have with an added on ability that would allow any sort of cast to not be interrupted in PvP from a healing perspective. If they really are as worried about class "balancing" as they so claim then why even touch SP? They're bringing Sorcs and Mercs up to par with Ops, as they are now, why even touch the class at all?

If people are really saying that being able to spam SP, which respects the GCD, is unfair to the other healing classes, when it doesn't heal for that much to begin with, as I've said before its a filler heal till you can get something else off, why not bring them up to where Ops are? (Oh wait they are) As I said previously, this is the backlash of a numerous amount of QQ all over the forums for people who don't know how to counter the class.

 

To put it in perspective for you, even in full BiS 78 gear, Surgical Probe heals at a low level maybe 3.5k with a crit anywhere up to 6.5k. And the basis for this nerf, which is what it is, that they're bringing on is a balance for PvP. So tell me, what DPS can not hit more than 3.5k on any part of their rotation, no crit, and not hit more than 6.5k with a crit? I get it, other healing classes have QQed up and down the forums about this ability being spammable because they feel that because they don't have something similar its "unfair". Last I checked, Operatives/Scoundrels don't have an ability that makes them completely immune to interrupts or for that matter gives them a free heal.

 

So as I've said, again, why touch Surgical Probe when its a part of a class that relies on instant casting to make up for the lack of an immune to interrupts button or a FREE self heal. And please don't even mention our DCDs because they're garbage.

Edited February 26, 2014 by JustBLaxin

[JustBLaxin]

And I'm tired of people such as yourself who can't learn to read. The only thing that's changed, the ONLY THING THAT'S CHANGED, is that now you only get one refunded TA on a target below 30% health every 6 seconds. (1.xx of which is spent on the GCD you used to actually cast the thing). It STILL serves as a fill in heal, and an energy management heal. They haven't added a cooldown to it, they haven't added an energy cost to it. They added a lockout to the TA regrant.

 

None of the things you've cited which make SP useful have been affected in the slightest. ALL that has changed is your ability to use spam SP on targets that stabilize under 30%, in that now you only get one every 6 seconds without giving up any TAs at all.

 

Admittedly, the entire notion of just spamming SP is patently ridiculous, so serious question: in a given situation, like soft enrage on council, how many times on average would you say you're using SP in a row in these emergency situations? As you say, tons of SP spam is kind of idiotic just from a time spent perspective. If it's no more than 2 in a row on a low HP target, then absolutely nothing has changed :SP > SP > Injection results in no net change, and now you actually get something out of the TA granted by Injection, and SP > SP > Infusion still leaves you with one TA left assuming no procs gained from KP/RN. SP > SP > Infusion > SP did take a nerf (the third SP is still inside the lockout, and you only had 1 TA left after the Infusion). Is that really your bread and butter panic move?

 

Please educate me, because while I can see how this is annoying, I'm just not seeing how this has gutted PVE healing for operatives. All the benefits you've listed for using SP aren't going away.

 

I ran this change last night in our raid, and asked specifically for our group to bring on a tank that was geared at the right gear level for the content we were doing, I will be shelving my Op for NiM content if these changes go live.

 

Edit: I'll also implore you to read my above comment about why Surgical Probe should be left alone. No immune to interrupts button, free heal, or free self heal. (in case you can't read) But I guess for one such as yourself who knows the class you'd understand that's why Ops are mostly instant cast, because we don't have an immune to interrupts button.

 

Edit: Also infusion doesn't heal for much after the cast, which you know is why using Surgical Probe (at least a couple times) after Infusion to get off Injection, and if you were to use your rotation as mentioned with the 2.7 changes, say bye bye to whatever Tank or DPS you're healing. Cause you'll either end up using Injection and having to spam DS to try and use another Injection, which by then, I doubt will keep the target alive, or you're going back through that rotation in the hopes it'll be enough to keep them alive, assuming you even have any TAs left and can get one from SP again. Six seconds is a long time in PvE and PvP and for an ability that doesn't heal for much to begin with... Good luck.

Edited February 26, 2014 by JustBLaxin

[Qaoz]

Allow me to start off by saying, after reading the first paragraph of this, I'm assuming that you've never healed on an operative. Secondly, no, it does not make them on a level playing field with other healing classes. Ops do not have abilities that make them immune to interrupts like Mercs/Sorcs. So in a PvP world where instant casting is a huge benefit and seeing as with 2.7 Surgical Probe is being taken away as an instant cast without a CD, we have 1 being KP which does trash healing to begin with.

So, they have essentially gutted the healing which made Ops competitive in PvP and PvE. With the current changes and even with 2.6 live, its not at all difficult to get any speced Op to 30% without touching their resolve bar and then finishing them off. The community has asked repeatedly for better DCDs or just survivability in general, and the Devs have consistently refused to acknowledge these requests.

In the eyes of a vast majority of the Scoundrel/Operative community these changes are the backlash of a consistent QQ by players who do not know how to counter our class. Which, lets be honest, unless you're in healer spec, and really even then, is really not that hard to do. These changes to Surgical Probe, Jarring Strike and Exfiltrate, are by far the worst I have ever seen coming to Ops/Drels.

2.6 brought Mercs/Mandos to where they should've been healing wise, and if you're honestly saying that Ops/Drels will still be top dogs of healing come 2.7, you really need to check out how this will affect our EHPS. Mandos/Mercs recently hit the 2k+ mark, which is right behind Ops/Drels, and with the 2.7 changes to Sorcs/Sages, they will exceed us in EHPS. (seeing as Sorcs/Ops are nearly neck and neck in that respect already)

I can not tell you the countless times I have used Surgical Probe even on a target above 30% because its an instant cast, doesn't cost me energy, and Injection, which is quite an energy drain if you're low already, isn't viable. With the rest of my abilities on CD and I already have 2 stacks of KP on the target, and DS is just a trash ability in a pinch(or in general) and really should only be used for energy management. If you're saying that the Surgical Probe changes aren't huge, then you really are an idiot. It plays a vital importance in energy management just like Diagnostic Scan, cause you know, I pair the two together seeing as I'll get my TAs back from DS or my Kolto Probes and Surgical serves as my heal in place until I have my energy back to a reasonable level again.

So this whole argument that Surgical Probe is not as important an ability to healers as we're trying to make it sound, is a farce, to say the least. So please, if you want to talk about how healing Ops are so OP, maybe you should try rolling one and learn how important SP really is.

 

Double line breaks, please.

 

I'm sure you have interesting things to say, but the above is called a wall of text, and it does not work on the internet. Hit Enter twice whenever you finish a paragraph.

[JustBLaxin]

Double line breaks, please.

 

I'm sure you have interesting things to say, but the above is called a wall of text, and it does not work on the internet. Hit Enter twice whenever you finish a paragraph.

Yeah sorry. Good point.

[ArchangelLBC]

I ran this change last night in our raid, and asked specifically for our group to bring on a tank that was geared at the right gear level for the content we were doing, I will be shelving my Op for NiM content if these changes go live.

 

Edit: I'll also implore you to read my above comment about why Surgical Probe should be left alone. No immune to interrupts button, free heal, or free self heal. (in case you can't read) But I guess for one such as yourself who knows the class you'd understand that's why Ops are mostly instant cast, because we don't have an immune to interrupts button.

 

Edit: Also infusion doesn't heal for much after the cast, which you know is why using Surgical Probe (at least a couple times) after Infusion to get off Injection, and if you were to use your rotation as mentioned with the 2.7 changes, say bye bye to whatever Tank or DPS you're healing. Cause you'll either end up using Injection and having to spam DS to try and use another Injection, which by then, I doubt will keep the target alive, or you're going back through that rotation in the hopes it'll be enough to keep them alive, assuming you even have any TAs left and can get one from SP again. Six seconds is a long time in PvE and PvP and for an ability that doesn't heal for much to begin with... Good luck.

 

So far you have yet to give a good reason why this change has "gutted" operative PVE healing. Your reasons are complete non-reasons. At this point I have to assume you're trolling me because there's literally no way you can run with the changes. You can impose an even harsher nerf on yourself by not taking the talent at all, giving up the 15% boost in healing to SP as well as the third TA, and getting no TA regrant whatsoever, but you can't test the actual changes as they will actually exist.

 

Ok so you need an instant full heal that doesn't cost any energy. You have Surgical Probe. Which you can use several times in a row without giving up your TAs. You also have two incredibly powerful HoTs for DPS to try to compete against, and perhaps the best interrupt juke in the game (sup DS).

 

Sages have one instant true heal which is more of a half instant/half hot, and then their AoE (essentially AoE HoT) which itself requires 3 crits from their channeled ability. They also have their bubble, which has a lockout attached so they can't spam it on themselves.

 

Commandos have Kolto Bomb on a 6 second cooldown (which is AoE admittedly), concussion charge on a 30s CD (which is also their main gap creator to get breathing room, though also AoE if a little low on the actual healing side), and then Bacta Infusion which is on an 18s CD

 

So yes, most of Operative heals are instant to combat their lack of an interrupt cooldown. I have yet to see how any of that has really changed outside of, again, not having super spammable SP while you stay under 30%.

 

I noticed that you didn't actually answer my question. In general how many SP's in a row do you find yourself using in a typical boss fight (break it down by boss if you want)? For a target under 30% you can do SP > SP > Injection (back to 3 TA) > SP (2TA) > SP (ICD has finished and regrants you a TA if they're still below 30%, and if the aren't then you weren't gonna get back your TA anyway). And you still have two TA, so you can cast another SP or an Infusion or Injection again to get back to 3 TA, and that's in the worst case scenario that you didn't once get another TA from your HoTs.

 

Seriously, show me a typical raid parse which absolutely depends on the ability to spam SP on targets below 30% health.

Edited February 27, 2014 by ArchangelLBC

[JustBLaxin]

I noticed that you didn't actually answer my question. In general how many SP's in a row do you find yourself using in a typical boss fight (break it down by boss if you want)? For a target under 30% you can do SP > SP > Injection (back to 3 TA) > SP (2TA) > SP (ICD has finished and regrants you a TA if they're still below 30%, and if the aren't then you weren't gonna get back your TA anyway). And you still have two TA, so you can cast another SP or an Infusion or Injection again to get back to 3 TA, and that's in the worst case scenario that you didn't once get another TA from your HoTs.

 

Seriously, show me a typical raid parse which absolutely depends on the ability to spam SP on targets below 30% health.

Is this even serious? Why are you including Injection when afore mentioned I've said specifically in energy management situations?

 

But just to entertain you my little drone, lets go over your said rotation and we'll assume that you're sitting at a comfortable 25 energy on a target below 30%, which at the end of HM Council does happen, and your adrenaline probe is on CD for the next 1min 30s. So to start, KP being put out on anyone and everyone you can get it on, which in the long run does cost you energy(granted not much but it does even with appropriate alac %), so SP > (get TA back) > SP (2 TAs) > Injection > (TA back energy now depleted) > SP (2 TA) > SP (1 TA) (KP grants you one) > SP (get TA back) > Infusion > SP (energy depleted and you're out of TAs) > SB (target is close to death) > SP > SP (get TA back)(KP falls off) > Infusion (cause its a much quicker cast energy now depleted) spam DS in the hope it gets you enough energy to get off an Injection or Infusion before the target dies, and this all for the sake of one target... So sure you're said rotation will maybe keep one person alive but how about 4 or 5 with the 2.7 changes? Or even for that matter 2 other people, seeing as the whole basis for this change is a PvP "balance".

 

Hence why I said your rotation is absolutely ridiculous. You're basing this on the premise that its one target below 30%. HM Council Phase 4, its never just one, and with NiM content coming out when its bound to be more than 1 even with proper gear, good luck buddy. So as I said, when NiM content comes out I will be shelving my Op if these changes go live. OH! Btw, when I said I tried out the changes in our raid, its not exactly complicated to count up the number of TAs you have when a target hits 30% or below and then use the changes as Bioware has posted them.

[JustBLaxin]

 

Ok so you need an instant full heal that doesn't cost any energy. You have Surgical Probe. Which you can use several times in a row without giving up your TAs. You also have two incredibly powerful HoTs for DPS to try to compete against, and perhaps the best interrupt juke in the game (sup DS).

 

What is this powerful HoT you speak of? Are you talking about Infusion that's front end loaded and then really doesn't HoT for anything? KP which unless you're pairing it with Infusion and/or RN is just about as useless? RN which is about as much an energy drain as Injection, when its up, and in BiS 78 gear has a chance to crit at 2.9k, and that was with Dread Forged FR and SA running? So really what are you even talking about? Unless you're talking about rolling all three of those HoTs together on multiple targets, which aside from KP and RN, just isn't at all possible.

 

Your comments thus far are my evidence to the contrary that you even know what you're talking about. All I see before me is a drone who thinks he knows his sh*t, when really he can't even tell his d*ck from his elbow. And more so sounds like a QQer who can't even understand how "powerful" a class' HoTs are. Get off the thread when you don't know the class.

Edited February 28, 2014 by JustBLaxin

[Darkwords]

they don't care for what you think or write, they are nerfing us. 2014 is the merc year

 

 

I just got settled at 55 and pretty much have my OP healing down where it's comfy and fun and now a nerf? Well, I have been beta testing Wild Star so it's just another nail in Biofail's coffin...I can hardly wait!

[akabane_k]

What is this powerful HoT you speak of? Are you talking about Infusion that's front end loaded and then really doesn't HoT for anything? KP which unless you're pairing it with Infusion and/or RN is just about as useless? RN which is about as much an energy drain as Injection, when its up, and in BiS 78 gear has a chance to crit at 2.9k, and that was with Dread Forged FR and SA running? So really what are you even talking about? Unless you're talking about rolling all three of those HoTs together on multiple targets, which aside from KP and RN, just isn't at all possible.

 

Your comments thus far are my evidence to the contrary that you even know what you're talking about. All I see before me is a drone who thinks he knows his sh*t, when really he can't even tell his d*ck from his elbow. And more so sounds like a QQer who can't even understand how "powerful" a class' HoTs are. Get off the thread when you don't know the class.

 

yea, those are powerful compared to almost every other hot in the game. What more do you want, 3k noncrit heal every second over the entire raid?

[JustBLaxin]

yea, those are powerful compared to almost every other hot in the game. What more do you want, 3k noncrit heal every second over the entire raid?

 

Last I checked, I don't have a channeled healing ability or for that matter an AoE that affects more than 4 people. And you're really comparing Ops, which are a HoT based healing class, to two classes that aren't? My injection does not crit as high as Dark Infusion or Rapid Scan. My AoE, as I just said, affects only 4 people. My Surgical Probe does not heal for as much as Emergency Scan/Innervate, and I also don't have an armor buff on any single one of my heals nor for that matter the 5/6% crit bonus that Mercs/Mandos and Sorcs/Sages get, which means I have to put crit somewhere in my gear which lowers the "OP" healing that those HoTs do.

 

If you're relying on your HoTs as a Sorc/Sage or a Merc/Mando, you need to find something to do other than healing cause its not your gift. The only reason they should EVER use their HoTs is because of the fact it has an armor buff on it. It is not something to be used in an emergency situation, although I think Healing Scan, which applies the buff, does get used a lot for no good reason because of Super Charged Gas. And even then you should be using it in tandem with Rapid Scan to lower its heat cost. I wish I had something that lowered the energy costs of my abilities. But then there would be more people such as yourself QQing on the forums about how OP Ops are.

 

Ops rely on their HoTs because we have to. We can't sit their and spam Injection or RN or even Infusion because energy wise its absolutely unviable. So now I have two idiots on here who want to talk about a class they don't play and you want compare it to two classes who aren't even similar in methods of healing? If there is anything I will give Bioware credit for, which doesn't happen often, its the fact that every AC in this game is different. The way they work, the abilities they have, what situations they're better in. Healers being good or bad in this game, and trust me I've played with a lot of bad Op healers tanking in ops, is all about the person behind the keyboard. It has zero to do with the classes as they stand, although I will say the Merc/Mando changes in 2.6 and the coming Sorc/Sage changes in 2.7 are long overdue and I would even go as far to say, for Sorcs/Sages, not enough in terms of survivability.

 

Pre 2.6 I never had any issues healing current content on my Merc, but I switched to an Op because my raid wanted me to. Post 2.6 it has only gotten easier to heal on my Merc and in cases I would even say easier than healing on the Op. Better survivability, better AoE, Kolto Shell on everyone in raid, which allowed me to watch my EHPS soar. So just like I told the other guy, if you don't know the class shut up. And you obviously don't.

[Elyx]

This change floors me. speechless. can't tell you how many times being able to spam that ability saved my PuG groups. inexperienced tanks + inexperienced DPS = healing nightmare. I've healed on all 3 classes since the game went live, in solo, PuG, and raid environments. This single change will relly gut the Op/Scoundrels emergency healing capacity.

 

On my merc I always had sheer burst healing capacity to bring up low health players (supercharge, Dr shield, armor buff, fast cast heal, all on extremely low CD's). on my sage, bubble/AoE bomb/prestigious use of Conveyance brought them up in no time.

 

my Scoundrel has none of those. EE was the scoundrels answer. All of our Ho'ts are based on stacking, and do not have real up front burst, so being able to spam EM ENERGY FREE and burn our extra UA procs closed that gap (energy free is the key....our energy recvovery CD is long one, and our energy fluctuates far faster then my merc or sage does). so what do we do now? they'd better buff Emergency medpacks healing by a ton, or provide us with a "shield" ability to absorb damage now....or a armor buff with EM. So, you know...we can be just like the other healing classes..

 

Sigh...the inevitability astounds me. I knew that once they actually decided to focus on competitive PvP, that it would slowly choke the PvE game into a blended mess of homogenization and mediocrity, just like every other MMO before it. It's sad to see my prediction come true...even though I knew it would, I always have a hope that they'd change direction. Guess they're not. so long unique and individual PvE classes. welcome to WoW world

Edited March 2, 2014 by Elyx

[Balduvar]

I adjusted my healing style to account for this as soon as I saw it mentioned in PTR patch notes about a month ago and so far it doesn't seem like it's going to be that big of a deal for PvE. Mostly it just means I can't screw around and DPS as much.

 

Keep in mind that even with the 6 second ICD, if you have 3 stacks of TA, you can still drop 4 Surgical Probes in a row on someone before needing to cast something else. That is still a LOT of instant cast healing available. You can hit Stim Boost for another TA to make it 5 in a row. By this point the ICD should be refreshed so make that 6 in a row. If you have HoTs ticking, you almost certainly will have gained another TA from them during this time, that's 7 in a row. How many do you really need?