Sentinel Love, what can Bioware do to keep other players interested in our class?

[Projawa]

As long as sentinels/marauders are balanced, I don't care how much or little interest other players have in the class. There are too many sents as it is. Less interest could be a good thing as sunshine-chasers flock to another class.

 

Bugs aside, sents/maras are in a good place PVE-wise atm.

Edited May 1, 2014 by Projawa

[TheCourier-]

Watchman spec needs rebuke to be added to zealous ward, and a 1500 damage dot added to merciless slash. That would increase watchman spec's DPS by about 250, and rebuke being added to zealous ward would increase watchman spec's survivability. Those two buffs would make watchman spec PVP viable. Seriously, guardian's focused defense's healing is currently WAY better than watchman spec's healing, and watchman spec's healing is considered to be one of its strengths.

[KarethRiker]

Watchman just buffed on the PTS. We'll have to see how much the damage increase is

[Vodrin]

whaddya want to be an RDPS?

 

Jokes aside, I really think these changes are pretty insanely dumb. What do you want to be a guardian?

 

Sents just need Watchman to be fixed and Focus to be more fun and less about derpsmashing since the nerf to the spec. They are a fun class and at very few points in the game's history have they been severely needing a buff. For the most part they are in a viable place, just not the ultimate FOTM, which at any rate is overrated.

 

Have you seen the Watchman changes in the PTS patch notes for 2.8? It's not quite what I would have wanted, but is not terrible. They are making Merciless slash hit harder and cost 4 focus now, and they are making the cauterize cooldown reset a flat cooldown reduction instead. They are also making watchman DoT's uncleansable (although they can still be purged).

 

I will probably give Watchman a bit of playtime again once this hits just to see how it plays.

[Ramtar]

whaddya want to be an RDPS?

 

Jokes aside, I really think these changes are pretty insanely dumb. What do you want to be a guardian?

 

Sents just need Watchman to be fixed and Focus to be more fun and less about derpsmashing since the nerf to the spec. They are a fun class and at very few points in the game's history have they been severely needing a buff. For the most part they are in a viable place, just not the ultimate FOTM, which at any rate is overrated.

 

Force Push, IMO, should have been a Knight/Warrior ability and not just Guardian/Juggernaut. Darth Maul used Force Push.

 

How are we going to have fun when our CDs are longer than similar abilities for the other classes? Let me know which class has an longer ability CD than Inspiration's 5 min.

 

Tell me why I have to spend half of my health to use GbtF and Shadow's Resilience cost no health and shorter cd?

 

Tell me why a Shadow can increase their armor rating to be equal to Heavy Armor and Sentinel's can't?

 

Tell me why Sentinel's initial Focus bar is 0 and 6 other advance classes initial Power Cell/Energy/Force bar is full when starting a war zone/operation/flash point?

 

5% Melee Parry and Range Deflection for a Sentinel is a joke. It should be 15-20% due to the offhand lightsaber acting a shield.

 

Devs just need to drop the trees, keep the abilities in their current tier locations and allow players to choose what abilities appeal to them with the 46 points.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Ramtar

[Atlanis]

Just give us a selfpurge on Force Cammo.

 

And give us some better CDs,

 

How about reducing the CD from Saberward by 50% on the next PTS and let us see how that works. That Skill only gives us 50% Evasion and 25% Reduction on Yellow Damage, so the CD is too long when i look at the Snipers Shield Probe (50% UPTIME Absorbs a lot of Damage). How about changing Rebuke back to original state where it also applied to yellow damage an dots?

 

Just give us some stuff to test on the pts atm you hardly see any sents outside four ranked groups;-)

[Eastiano]

Just give us a selfpurge on Force Cammo.

 

This guy talks sense, been saying this for ages!

 

The buff recently was nice but sorcs still destroy us & I've noticed crushing darkness dots seem to ignore gbtf in pvp...

[Tonev]

Yep. Sentinel and Marauder are now the most useless ACs in this game.

 

I love the class, but because of how much more difficult it is to play than EVERY other class, it serves no point.

 

They don't have any heals (and no, *********** Watchman dots do NOT count), no stealth (a 4 second stealth on nearly a minute CD also does not count), no way to instantly kill an opponent (they are the only class with neither a pull nor a push ability), almost every ability is "direction specific," (if you've not played other ACs, did you even know that many of their abilities can be triggered without even having your character pointed in the direction of your target?) limited range, terrible resistance to damage (Guarded by the Force is a joke. It was nerfed because it was "too effective in team play," but that's now just left solo players with a useless ability. You want to pop it at 1% health so it doesn't eat up half of your health, but you can no longer immediately use a health pack when you pop it, so you just usually die the instant it goes down. Meanwhile, Sages and Sorcerers now get a *********** bubble that offers better damage resistance, heals them [if they're specced for it], and does NOT take up HALF of their *********** health to use. Oh, and it lasts WAY longer than 4 seconds. Double, oh, it's also getting a buff in 2.7. What a *********** joke), if you play a spec that is DOT reliant, then most of them can be wiped by the Sage/Sorcerer ability to remove TWO *********** DOTs at once which is on a TWO second cool down, and just so... so many other reasons not to play them.

 

There's no shortage of players playing Sent/Mara though, because it's play style appeals to people with ADHD and people that play alone.

 

It's fine to have a class that's more difficult to play, but it has to have a corresponding benefit. Previously, Sents and Maras just did the most damage and/or killed players the most. Now that is not the case. After 2.7, if the proposed changes go through, they'll be even worse.

 

Sadly, BioWare underestimated the number of psychologically stunted, pathetic digital bullies that decided to play their game and all made Sorcerers. So, anytime any class other than Sorcs get something the Sorcs don't, or when Sorcs get nerfed, a HUGE contingent of the SWTOR fan base cries and/or leaves.

 

BioWare knows where their money is. Just play a Sage or a Sorcerer. Or, if you prefer an even easier time, play a Scoundrel or Operative and enjoy the fun of killing every single equally or lesser geared opponent you ever choose to engage in combat, and never, ever, die.

 

 

Hey man, a lot of these people on here are referring to PvE and not PvP, so yeah, they will think that everything is okay and cool with the class "if that's all they do".

 

Now for me it's been awhile since I have played my Sentinel (I think my Shadow, Sage and Vanguard is in a WAAY better spot then they are in PvP), I do think the frustration of me playing solo ranked and regs put me off of the class "even though" it's super cool to have two sabers in each hand.

 

I think in order to fix the upfront burst of this class they should have the off hand swing do as much damage as the main hand weapon, if I remember correctly, I think the off hand gets a 25-30% penalty on damage and crits?

 

No other dps class in the game has this for PvP and as someone once told me when I first started PvPing Burst is everything in PvP especially for a "DO or DIE" class, which is what Sentinels and Marauders are.

[Ardarell_Solo]

it's super cool to have two sabers in each hand.

 

Now THAT would indeed be really cool! ^^

[mastervalkar]

Man.... Dotsmash gets the nerfbat and dies a horrific death, and Assault Spec Vanguards become the Flavor of the Month, and every Sentinel thinks the sky is falling.

 

It will be okay. Watchmen is in a good place right, and Combat still has by far the best burst in the game. Sent still have great defensive CDs, and due to Inspiration, you will never not be needed in Endgame content.

 

So what all this crying about? Quit embarrassing yourselves and man up.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Man.... Dotsmash gets the nerfbat and dies a horrific death, and Assault Spec Vanguards become the Flavor of the Month, and every Sentinel thinks the sky is falling.

 

It will be okay. Watchmen is in a good place right, and Combat still has by far the best burst in the game. Sent still have great defensive CDs, and due to Inspiration, you will never not be needed in Endgame content.

 

So what all this crying about? Quit embarrassing yourselves and man up.

 

We are talking purely for PvP. Sentnel DCD's are a joke compared to Kolto Overload, and even the gimped version of Enraged Defence! we have these as are arsenal.

 

30 seconds of 20% less damage and ~500 damage back to the attacker

4 seconds of 50% defence and a bit more movespeed (6 seconds if Watchman)

4 seconds of OH CRAP I WILL DIE IF I DONT USE THIS BUT IF I DO I WILL STILL DIE! (aka GbtF)

10 seconds of 20% Ranged and Melee defence, /yawn

 

That's crap compared to lets say the Juggernaut's arsenal which is this.

 

4 seconds of Snipers? Heh, they cant do anything to me (aka Saber Reflect)

10 Seconds of I WILL NOT DIE! (aka Enraged Defence)

AOE taunt

Intercede

STT (Single Target Taunt)

Off Guard (if Vigilance)

and a free 30% extra HP + 15% Overall defence boost

 

Our arsenal is pretty puny compared to that. IMO we need GbtF to be un-nerfed it was a stupid nerf and now no smart Sentinel will ever use it. for Watchman we need our 2% HP from DoT's back, Madness has it why cant we? Focus needs something like this

 

Leaping Defence: After Force Leap or Zealous Leap you gain 1 stack of Leaping Defence which lasts 15 seconds and stacks up to 3 times, each stack gives 1.5%/3% Force and Tech defence.

 

This would make their second leap more useful though 9% F/T defence may be a bit strong. so it could be scaled back to 6%. Combat needs some sort of fix to their Focus regen and it's *********** RNG needs tuning, I would play Combat if it's RNG would be tuned to be less inhibiting.

[mastervalkar]

We are talking purely for PvP. Sentnel DCD's are a joke compared to Kolto Overload, and even the gimped version of Enraged Defence! we have these as are arsenal.

 

30 seconds of 20% less damage and ~500 damage back to the attacker

4 seconds of 50% defence and a bit more movespeed (6 seconds if Watchman)

4 seconds of OH CRAP I WILL DIE IF I DONT USE THIS BUT IF I DO I WILL STILL DIE! (aka GbtF)

10 seconds of 20% Ranged and Melee defence, /yawn

 

That's crap compared to lets say the Juggernaut's arsenal which is this.

 

4 seconds of Snipers? Heh, they cant do anything to me (aka Saber Reflect)

10 Seconds of I WILL NOT DIE! (aka Enraged Defence)

AOE taunt

Intercede

STT (Single Target Taunt)

Off Guard (if Vigilance)

and a free 30% extra HP + 15% Overall defence boost

 

Our arsenal is pretty puny compared to that. IMO we need GbtF to be un-nerfed it was a stupid nerf and now no smart Sentinel will ever use it. for Watchman we need our 2% HP from DoT's back, Madness has it why cant we? Focus needs something like this

 

Leaping Defence: After Force Leap or Zealous Leap you gain 1 stack of Leaping Defence which lasts 15 seconds and stacks up to 3 times, each stack gives 1.5%/3% Force and Tech defence.

 

This would make their second leap more useful though 9% F/T defence may be a bit strong. so it could be scaled back to 6%. Combat needs some sort of fix to their Focus regen and it's *********** RNG needs tuning, I would play Combat if it's RNG would be tuned to be less inhibiting.

 

See, My main is a Guardian, so I get this. Then again, I hardly ever PvP with my Knights because all I know is a die a lot. I prefer if I PvP to be on my any of my Ranged characters.

 

I will not comment on your skill tree ideas, as they seem built for PvP, and as I said, I don't PvP much (at least at 55).

 

I will say the Guardian has better Defensive built into their trees, and Saber Reflect is the Sniper killer (if you time it right, which is quite hard ; most of the time you reflect Snipe damage instead of Ambush or Series of Shots damage)

[Vodrin]

See, My main is a Guardian, so I get this. Then again, I hardly ever PvP with my Knights because all I know is a die a lot. I prefer if I PvP to be on my any of my Ranged characters.

 

I will not comment on your skill tree ideas, as they seem built for PvP, and as I said, I don't PvP much (at least at 55).

 

I will say the Guardian has better Defensive built into their trees, and Saber Reflect is the Sniper killer (if you time it right, which is quite hard ; most of the time you reflect Snipe damage instead of Ambush or Series of Shots damage)

 

You do realize that until the ED buff came along it was universally agreed that DPS jugs/guards were not viable in ranked PvP due to sent/mara defensive cooldowns being so much better. Only thing sents really need is for GBTF to be reworked into a more usable state. I think it should just have it's duration slightly reduced and make it only usable under 30% health. Then remove all of the penalties associated with it. That would work wonders for the class (which is only slightly below other melee DPS right now by the way, and is still quite viable in all forms of PvP, and is stronger than many with a coordinated group).

[Ramtar]

You do realize that until the ED buff came along it was universally agreed that DPS jugs/guards were not viable in ranked PvP due to sent/mara defensive cooldowns being so much better. Only thing sents really need is for GBTF to be reworked into a more usable state. I think it should just have it's duration slightly reduced and make it only usable under 30% health. Then remove all of the penalties associated with it. That would work wonders for the class (which is only slightly below other melee DPS right now by the way, and is still quite viable in all forms of PvP, and is stronger than many with a coordinated group).

 

GBTF should be fixed to work just like Assassin's Force Shroud. This would be a start along with decrease all our abilities cd by 1/4-1/2. How many 10-30m attack abilities does a Sorcerer have that are on a 6-9 sec CD? Why is Assassin's Deflection on 120 sec CD and Jedi Knight's Saber Ward on 180 sec CD? Sentinel's Rebuke should be work just like Sorcerer's Static Barrier including the same CD. Why doesn't Sentinel's have 3 Saber throws: Twin Saber (30m, which we do have), 30m Main Hand Saber (6 sec CD) and 10m Offhand Saber (6 sec CD)?

 

Why isn't Bonus Melee Damage not figured in on Sentinel's Offhand Saber damage? Sentinel should have a Right and Left Hand Saber not Main and Offhand Saber. I'm ambidextrous, but the Devs didn't allow me to determine what hand was my main or offhand. The devs assumed all players are, mainly, right handed.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Ramtar

[Vodrin]

GBTF should be fixed to work just like Assassin's Force Shroud. This would be a start along with decrease all our abilities cd by 1/4-1/2. How many 10-30m attack abilities does a Sorcerer have that are on a 6-9 sec CD? Why is Assassin's Deflection on 120 sec CD and Jedi Knight's Saber Ward on 180 sec CD? Sentinel's Rebuke should be work just like Sorcerer's Static Barrier including the same CD. Why doesn't Sentinel's have 3 Saber throws: Twin Saber (30m, which we do have), 30m Main Hand Saber (6 sec CD) and 10m Offhand Saber (6 sec CD)?

 

Why isn't Bonus Melee Damage not figured in on Sentinel's Offhand Saber damage? Sentinel should have a Right and Left Hand Saber not Main and Offhand Saber. I'm ambidextrous, but the Devs didn't allow me to determine what hand was my main or offhand. The devs assumed all players are, mainly, right handed.

 

All of the things you are suggesting would make the class wildly overpowered. Shroud is inherently less powerful than GBTF as GTBF grants near immunity to all incoming damage, not just force damage. It needs an additional restriction so as not to be overpowered. I suggested limiting it's use to when you are under 30% health.

 

Saber ward is considerably stronger than the sin version due to also reducing incoming force damage. And the sin/sorc has no abilities that hit as hard as merciless slash, a buffed blade storm, or a buffed force sweep. They may have range and shorter cooldowns, but if a sent reaches them (at least one that knows how to play), the sorc is toast in a 1v1.

 

Sents only appear weak right now when they are saddled with a garbage group. Melee will always have issues compared to ranged when the supporting group is crap. You just can't make sentinels perform well when played by an average player in a weak group, without making them wildly overpowered when played by a strong player in a coordinated and geared group.

[AngusFTW]

Yes sentinel relys alot more on group. Its not really an ideal solo queueing class.. Though its not just a meelee issue i'd put snipers in the same boat they need a bit more help from the team to perform well but when they get it they are strong. Infact a sniper is worse...

 

The main QQ is the smash getting nerfed and then jugs getting this healing trance cd xD but in actual team play outside of zomg 1v1 or bad group comps i would say carnage or anni is better dmg than veng. Veng is kinda like a weird stepchild of the 2.. while the cc immunity, utility and cds are nice it lacks the burst of carnage, (veng burst medicore at its best) and its dots are too rubbish for it to be a dot spec really..

Edited June 20, 2014 by AngusFTW

[MasterFeign]

 

Sents only appear weak right now when they are saddled with a garbage group. Melee will always have issues compared to ranged when the supporting group is crap. You just can't make sentinels perform well when played by an average player in a weak group, without making them wildly overpowered when played by a strong player in a coordinated and geared group.

 

So much this!

 

I've jumped as much as 400k dps when the group I am with is competent. And I'm not just talking about having a healer on the team (that's not always the case).

 

As soon as rage was nerfed, there was an exodus to other fotm classes, and those that remained on their sents/maras went to other specs. But the skill level compared with Carnage/combat and annihilation/watchmen is so much more higher than rage/focus... So this is where I figure all the complaints are coming from. Yes, fighting ranged classes is a bit more difficult now, but that's the point, so you have to adapt.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Yes sentinel relys alot more on group. Its not really an ideal solo queueing class.. Though its not just a meelee issue i'd put snipers in the same boat they need a bit more help from the team to perform well but when they get it they are strong. Infact a sniper is worse...

 

The main QQ is the smash getting nerfed and then jugs getting this healing trance cd xD but in actual team play outside of zomg 1v1 or bad comps i would say carnage or anni is better dmg..

 

I doubt that Anni or Carnage is better DPS than Vigilance for PvP.

[AngusFTW]

Numberswise in pve it is.. lol veng is falling behind again after all the other specs got buffed. For pure dmg the sent specs are better. Edited June 20, 2014 by AngusFTW

[Vodrin]

Yes sentinel relys alot more on group. Its not really an ideal solo queueing class.. Though its not just a meelee issue i'd put snipers in the same boat they need a bit more help from the team to perform well but when they get it they are strong. Infact a sniper is worse...

 

The main QQ is the smash getting nerfed and then jugs getting this healing trance cd xD but in actual team play outside of zomg 1v1 or bad group comps i would say carnage or anni is better dmg than veng. Veng is kinda like a weird stepchild of the 2.. while the cc immunity, utility and cds are nice it lacks the burst of carnage, (veng burst medicore at its best) and its dots are too rubbish for it to be a dot spec really..

 

Agreed. Take away the CC immunity and defensive cooldowns and vengeance is an inferior dot spec to annihilation and an inferior DD/burst spec to carnage.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Vodrin

[MasterFeign]

I doubt that Anni or Carnage is better DPS than Vigilance for PvP.

 

Yes, vigilance will get uninterrupted DPS quite often, but anni dots add up, as well as alacrity buffed carnage maras.

 

As a carnage mara, I've watched vigilance guardians lose to sents. And this isn't an issue of skill, so far as I know, it was use of CDs and procs.

 

For a mara, you force camo their first use of force charge, 2nd you use obfuscate (the 90% accuracy debuff) and you time the melee attacks with saber ward since force scream is their hard hitter that can't really be avoided.

[Vodrin]

Yes, vigilance will get uninterrupted DPS quite often, but anni dots add up, as well as alacrity buffed carnage maras.

 

As a carnage mara, I've watched vigilance guardians lose to sents. And this isn't an issue of skill, so far as I know, it was use of CDs and procs.

 

For a mara, you force camo their first use of force charge, 2nd you use obfuscate (the 90% accuracy debuff) and you time the melee attacks with saber ward since force scream is their hard hitter that can't really be avoided.

 

That and use awe as soon as you realize ED is up. ED really is a big issue for the 1v1 matchup. Unless you can avoid having to hit them for 6-8 seconds of the ED duration they are difficult to beat due to the strength of that one cooldown. If you reverted that one ability back to its old (and nearly useless) form, mara/sent would own jug/guardian in any spec assuming equal skill. As it is now jugg/guardian has a bit of an advantage despite lower damage output.

[MasterFeign]

That and use awe as soon as you realize ED is up. ED really is a big issue for the 1v1 matchup. Unless you can avoid having to hit them for 6-8 seconds of the ED duration they are difficult to beat due to the strength of that one cooldown. If you reverted that one ability back to its old (and nearly useless) form, mara/sent would own jug/guardian in any spec assuming equal skill. As it is now jugg/guardian has a bit of an advantage despite lower damage output.

 

Indeed. The other way you can hope is that for example your massacres crit, and their heals do not, out damaging their self heals.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

That and use awe as soon as you realize ED is up. ED really is a big issue for the 1v1 matchup. Unless you can avoid having to hit them for 6-8 seconds of the ED duration they are difficult to beat due to the strength of that one cooldown. If you reverted that one ability back to its old (and nearly useless) form, mara/sent would own jug/guardian in any spec assuming equal skill. As it is now jugg/guardian has a bit of an advantage despite lower damage output.

 

Though if you are playing Watchman/Anni your DoT's already out damage the healing of Enraged Defence/Focused Defence.

[Tonev]

For PvP some what PvE, What would make me go back to maining my Sentinel is seeing them give us back our 2% heals and a self purge that last just as long as Shadow's and Assasins on the same "exact cool down".

 

This would be a big step in the right direction for PVP survivability.

 

Oh yeah forgot to mention, get rid of "guarded by the Forces" 50% penalty.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Tonev