Verain Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Concussion Missles do not have a 7.7km range in a Scout. I have to be 5.1 before I can lock on. Cluster missiles is what you are thinking of, and your number is off a bit. In order: Thermite Torpedo: This does mostly hull damage, and crap to shields. Firing Arc: NARROW (12 degrees) Range LONG (10k) Lockon LONG (3.4 buffed) Ships: Type 1 Scout (Novadive) Proton Torpedo This ignores shields and armor and does moderate damage. Firing Arc: NARROW (12 degrees) Range LONG (10k) Lockon LONG (3.4 buffed) Ships: All strikes, type 2 gunship, all bombers. Concussion Missile: This does the highest damage without special conditions present, and can snare a target. Firing arc: MODERATE (20 degrees) Range MEDIUM (7k) Lockon MEDIUM (2.6 buffed) Ships: All strikes, drone bomber Ion Missile: This does the highest shield damage and debuffs, but almost nothing versus hull. When you can shoot a concussion, you could instead have shot an ion. Firing Arc: MODERATE (20 degrees) Range MEDIUM (7k) Lockon MEDIUM (2.6 buffed) Ships: Type 2 Strike EMP Missile: This does aoe damage and is intended to attack mines and drones. The damage is less than half a proton to the primary target, ignoring shields and armor just as the proton does. The aoe is half the primary. When you can shoot a concussion, you could instead have shot an emp. Firing Arc: MODERATE (20 degrees) Range MEDIUM (7k) Lockon MEDIUM (2.6 buffed) Ships: Type 2 Strike Cluster Missile: This does the lowest damage, but can put some damage through missile breaks and locks on fast. Firing arc: LARGE (24 degrees) Range SHORT (5k) Lockon SHORT (1.3 buffed) Ships: Type 2 Scout, All Strikes So combining these we get: Sab Probe: This disables the enemy ship pretty harshly. Firing arc: HUGE (28 degrees) Range: SHORT (5k) Lockon MEDIUM (2.7 seconds) Ships: All scouts Edited February 10, 2014 by Verain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuciwalker Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Which "both" ? "Concussion and Sabotage" or "Cluster and Sabotage" ? "Concussion with short range" and "cluster with long lockon" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 "Concussion with short range" and "cluster with long lockon" The point is that these are different- out of all the stats that make it hard or easy to attack with such missile, sab probe is much closer to cluster than concussion, due to the very generous firing arc. Anyone who is likening it to a concussion hasn't played with it enough to notice the very generous firing arc, but everyone knows how hard it can be to land a concussion at short range. Of the three stats, distance (longer is easier), lockon time (shorter is easier) and firing arc (bigger is easier), sab probe is the same or better than cluster at two of them- only the lockon stands out. Meanwhile, it only has the lockon in common with concussion, which isn't very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Streven- Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I prefer sabos when dogfighting in my nova. For flashfire I go with clusters. I think clusters get the win for overall damage output and kill/death ratio over the span of an entire match but sabos are far from useless and more fun imo. They do take skill to land but when landed they are very effective. Someone asked about how fast do they travel. Anecdotally I'd say they are on par with concusion missiles and yes engine maneuvers break the lock before or after firing. I will often obtain lock right before passing an enemy in a turning fight and so it might make it seem to the enemy he couldn't evade it. In those cases though I have the annoying problem of having to turn around and go catch my prey again before dishing out the beat down but that's the tough life of a sabo probe user I guess. Another tough aspect of probes is the enemy still has some very viable options for getting away after being hit but that's part of the fun. Giving sabos a shorter lock on would have people up in arms. They are extremely annoying even if not as deadly as some other missiles so I'm sure people would cry nerf if they were easier to land. Having said that I could go for a slight damage boost as a reward for the difficulty of landing one. As it stands hydro spanner essentially mitigates the damage the probe does on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Yea, that's another good point. It's not like you pick a secondary in a vacuum. If you have a novadive, your choices are thermite torpedo, rocket pods, and sabotage probe. None of these are general purpose, all have some sharp restrictions- the torpedo has a long lock on time plus a tiny target circle AND does balls damage to shields, the rocket pods have a wild tracking penalty and all the disadvantages of blasters, plus ammo, and the sab probe has a long lock on plus short range and deals essentially no damage directly. Meanwhile, on the flashfire, you trade thermite torpedo for cluster missiles, which ARE pretty much general purpose, and are very good for getting damage in. I don't see many flashfire pilots with cluster missiles, but I do see novadive pilots with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 They are extremely annoying even if not as deadly as some other missiles so I'm sure people would cry nerf if they were easier to land. Having said that I could go for a slight damage boost as a reward for the difficulty of landing one. As it stands hydro spanner essentially mitigates the damage the probe does on its own. My kill rate when I land a sabo probe (mastered probe) is around 80% on my Sting. The 20% is made up of the following general scenarios: I am being shot at by a few of the sabo victim's team mates. I stupidly ran out of blaster power before the sabo probe landed. My Targeting Telemetry is on CD. I Koiogran Turn into something unforgiving when I whip around to kill the target with my quads. When I fly Imperial with a bunch of noobies vs a lot of vets, I still usually end up with a positive K/D ratio. I can credit the sabo probe with this a LOT of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I stupidly ran out of blaster power before the sabo probe landed. My Targeting Telemetry is on CD. Would just like to point out that overcharge would both improve your burst and regen your power faster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Streven- Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 My kill rate when I land a sabo probe (mastered probe) is around 80% on my Sting. The 20% is made up of the following general scenarios: I am being shot at by a few of the sabo victim's team mates. I stupidly ran out of blaster power before the sabo probe landed. My Targeting Telemetry is on CD. I Koiogran Turn into something unforgiving when I whip around to kill the target with my quads. That sounds about right though I'd say my ratio is more like 70% kill rate due to my different selection in components and having zero offensive cooldowns. I like barrel roll and hydro spanner for survivability. I rarely miss the kill for reasons other than his teammates helping out. Occasionally when trying to stick my nose up his tailpipe for max dps I overshoot my target. I believe most sabo probe enthusiasts can relate there but maybe its just me. When I fly Imperial with a bunch of noobies vs a lot of vets, I still usually end up with a positive K/D ratio. I can credit the sabo probe with this a LOT of the time. Agreed, I have no problem getting positive kdr using sabo probes. They are very capable for dogfighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Would just like to point out that overcharge would both improve your burst and regen your power faster! TT was the much better counter to evasion scout builds (which rarely took the 2nd missile break over 3 more seconds of 116% evasion total). I like it's burst as well, as it does not affect my energy consumption at all (BOC eats it faster than the regen boosts it) and the crits are beautiful. Oh yeah and I use quads so I try to keep them at 2000-2500m, avoid the overshoot. They have a reduced engine speed, so even if they boost they are going to get caught. Before they pulled the shields from the shipyards C, I loved fighting over that spot... straight line? Oh noes blue wall! Edited February 10, 2014 by Zharik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I like [telemetry]'s burst as well, as it does not affect my energy consumption at all (BOC eats it faster than the regen boosts it) and the crits are beautiful. My bad. Not burst as in burst lasers, burst as in compressed/spike/burst damage. Then again, I wasn't taking distortion field into account (which I should have, because that's the first button I look for when I get probed). I was also thinking that if you find yourself at zero weapon power, you can pop overcharge, wait without firing, and quickly build up enough power for a kill. Not worth it with distortion field around, though. Also, definitely agree with beautiful crits. At some point in here I need to see how much damage I can do with telemetry + burst cannons + damage overcharge. Before they pulled the shields from the shipyards C, I loved fighting over that spot... straight line? Oh noes blue wall! Always hilarious. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 My bad. Not burst as in burst lasers, burst as in compressed/spike/burst damage. I know what you meant. Then again, I wasn't taking distortion field into account (which I should have, because that's the first button I look for when I get probed). I really don't want to hear about you getting probed... I was also thinking that if you find yourself at zero weapon power, you can pop overcharge, wait without firing, and quickly build up enough power for a kill. Not worth it with distortion field around, though. Yeah that whole "find myself at low weapon power", is still my fault though. With that secondary, you need weapon power... and I know this. It's just... he's in range, and the circle is red! B-b-b-ut-tt-t I must n-n-no-t-t-t f-f-f-i-r-r-e!?! Also, definitely agree with beautiful crits. At some point in here I need to see how much damage I can do with telemetry + burst cannons + damage overcharge. I've seen 1600 something with quads at more than 500m range... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davionix Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Sabotage probe is the answer to all those threads crying about gunships running away to their capital ships Specially with engine disable emp field Even if you may not succesfully "probe" your target all the times it takes just 1 succesful probing session to make them afraid of leaving surroundings or capital ship, focus on you all the time or be trigger happy with their engine component Edited February 10, 2014 by Davionix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Streven- Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Sabotage probe is the answer to all those threads crying about gunships running away to their capital ships Specially with engine disable emp field Even if you may not succesfully "probe" your target all the times it takes just 1 succesful probing session to make them afraid of leaving surroundings or capital ship, focus on you all the time or be trigger happy with their engine component You just gave me more motivation to use emp field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldcrush Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 To the OP. I was gathering footage for a sabotage probe video on "The Basion". Hope you weren't collateral damamge. I'll just leave here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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