Question for the Secondary SF pilots - What 2 missiles do you use?

[bmharrison]

Bombers have changed the game for everyone, obviously, but especially for my secondary striker- now I have to rethink which missiles I choose.

 

Now, I'll start by saying I'm not that great when it comes to keeping a lock on another ship, so lock-on times have had a significant effect on my choices. Also, I'm considering primarily domination matches, as I prefer to fly scouts in the deathmatch. Also, I fly the SF mainly imp side, and am almost always on a pug that goes up against a premade with fully upgraded gs/bombers/scouts etc., so if that affects which missiles I should use, please let me know. Now onto the specifics:

 

Before bombers:

Pretty simple, really. I used cluster missiles for close-in dogfighting- the short lock-on times really work to my advantage and provide a decent trade-off for lower damage. For longer range targets (gunships and turrets), I used concussion missles - slightly longer lock-on, but longer range and much more damage. While I realize the proton torpedoes provide even longer range, the significant lock-on time made me reluctant to use them.

 

After bombers:

Now things are complicated. Target types are many- dogfighters (scouts/sf), snipers (gunships), tanks (bombers- slow and easy to hit but able to take a beating), and of course the mines, drones, and turrets. I'd like to load up four different missiles to deal with all of these, but of course can only have two. So I guess it comes down to these:

 

For drones/mines (and occasionally bombers and gunships): Do I go with emp missile because it's designed to take out mines/drones, and has an aoe effect (I think?)?

Disadvantages -

1. range is shorter than the missile/railgun drones, so you're taking a beating while you're locking on.

2. if you do end up using them for ships, you do little damage (though the engine drain effect is nifty).

 

Or do I go with proton torpedoes to get full range benefit, even though they aren't designed for the drones and are probably overkill? These would also be viable against long range targets like gunships.

 

For dogfighting, do I stay with cluster missles b/c that is what works for me? Or do I switch to concussion missles to try and get a little more damage/range, even though the lock-on time will give me a harder time?

 

So basically, the combos I'm looking at are:

1. cluster/emp

2. cluster/proton torpedoes

3. concussion/emp

4. concussion/proton torpedoes

 

Any suggestions/stories/experiences would be appreciated. And, if you feel the need to tell me to l2play, by all means go ahead- but please add a suggestion or two in your rhetoric, if it isn't too much trouble.

[Verain]

My classic is cluster/proton.

 

I've been trying out concussion/proton, and that is actually good for always having a threat you can pull out- but it's just so bad at locking on at close.

 

I haven't played much with EMP or the improved Ion though.

[Zharik]

I've been trying out concussion/proton, and that is actually good for always having a threat you can pull out- but it's just so bad at locking on at close.

 

That's why with those two missile types you hang back and focus on the ones who are dogfighting another player. Also, lockdown is a wonderful tool to help one land, drop a -40 points engine power on a guy who just boosted to the fight and he won't have engine to evade.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Zharik

[AMightyKnight]

I fly a nearly maxed Pike when I feel like it, mostly Scouts before 2.6 though.

Pre 2.6 I used my Pike as a long range interceptor with Proton Torpedos, Concussion Missiles and Heavy Lasers. About as not being a Scout as can be with a Strike Fighter. Worked quite well too, after a little practice the lock on times aren’t so bad. Just avoid close in dogfighting and don’t try to play it as Dogfighter. You got range, use it.

Anyways, with 2.6 the role of my Pike had to change. In my view the Pike is pretty much the only single ship capable of doing anything against heavily fortified satellites (meaning more than one Bomber fortifying the place). One Gunships sniping stuff takes too long and with the evasion nerf, a NovaDive will die before it gets anything done.

So my Pike got its fully upgraded EMP missiles and is now a special access enabler for Domination matches if the situation requires one. Unfortunately the EMP Missile is next to useless in regular combat IMO, but when it comes to butchering my long range missile platform and losing matches its not a difficult choice.

I’m a huge fan of maxed proton torpedos (range and all) so I’m kinda torn between them and Concussion Missiles. Either way, no Clusters. You are not a dogfighter, so don’t pretend to be one.

[PavSalco]

Wait...are you actually telling me that instead of having two different types of lasers, I can get two different kinds of missiles?

 

I haven't know that! When I come back to home, I need to check it

[steyates]

Yeah the Pike/Quell has two secondary weapons instead of two primary.

 

As for missiles I normally go with Clusters and Concussions. Continuous missile lock can be very effective. I keep on meaning to try Ions and Concussions which should be a good combo but I'm always worried about the length of time required to get off that combo. Not had any need yet for emp's as I haven't had to clear out a mined sat yet and I find protons are only really useful against bombers and turrets as anything else can outrun them.

[Lendul]

Pre 2.6 I used Cluster/Proton

 

Now I am running with EMP/Proton.

[Kain_Turinbar]

I've been maining a maxed pike for a long time now with the long range build.

 

Heavy Lasers, Concussions, Proton Torpedoes. I honestly don't have much difficulty with getting locks with Concussions and frequently use them so much I run out. Target engines is a great ability, I love landing that and then finishing them off with a Proton Torpedo or heavy lasers.

 

I maxed out the EMP missile after 2.6 but have yet to change my loadout because I just can't give up Concussions or PTs, I like both so much. Nothing as satisfying as that PT crit and initiating locks as far out as 11500 lets you make the first move and become the aggressor.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Kain_Turinbar

[wishihadaname]

Honestly, for screwing up bombers in particular I would suggest flying a StarGuard with protorps, ion guns, quads, and a directional shield. To take out the bomber you put power to shields, shields double front as you approach, and double back as you retreat. On the approach you use ion guns to strip his shields and sap his engines. You don't need to land very many hits to do this. After stripping his shields you fly out of the hot zone and take your sweet time locking on a PT. A good crit from that is fatal, if not rinse and repeat.

[Kain_Turinbar]

Honestly, for screwing up bombers in particular I would suggest flying a StarGuard with protorps, ion guns, quads, and a directional shield. To take out the bomber you put power to shields, shields double front as you approach, and double back as you retreat. On the approach you use ion guns to strip his shields and sap his engines. You don't need to land very many hits to do this. After stripping his shields you fly out of the hot zone and take your sweet time locking on a PT. A good crit from that is fatal, if not rinse and repeat.

 

Why waste time stripping shields first when the whole idea behind PTs is they ignore shields and armor completely?

[Nemarus]

It also depends if you mean for your Pike/Quell to be able to do either gametype or just focus on one.

 

If you're just going to use it in Domination, EMP Missile is probably good. If you're just going to use it in Deathmatch, EMP Missile is probably not so good (though disabling someone's engine abilities is always useful as it prevents the target from fleeing with Barrel Roll)

 

I think Cluster Missiles will always be worth taking. They are simply some of the most dependable damage you can get, and the constant lock-on warning frustrates/confuses/distracts enemies.

 

Concussion Missiles are neat if fully upgraded, but otherwise their longer lock-on time and, more importantly, longer cooldown, make them a bit difficult to use effectively. Still they work well with range-enhanced HLC's, and they are a nice backup weapon if you run out of Cluster Missiles.

 

Ion Missiles deserve another look, now that their range is 7000m. *looks* Okay, they are basically just somewhat less damaging versions of Concussion Missiles. The might drain more energy, but they have twice the cooldown and don't offer much of a tactical advantage.

 

At first, Proton Torpedoes might seem great against Bombers... after all, a Bomber has no way to evade a PT once it is fired. The problem is that most Bombers have 2400 hull, meaning it will take three PT's to destroy one. Four if the Bomber uses Hydrospanner or a Repair Drone. Considering a PT has a cooldown of 11 seconds (and lock-on time of 3.4 seconds), that means to kill a Bomber would take 32 seconds ... 46 if the Bomber heals. It would take a Gunship far less time to kill the same Bomber using Ion Ion Slug Slug.

 

So really none of the choices are all that great. I wish Pike's and Quells could take Rocket Pods, honestly, to enhance their capacity for burst damage.

[Nemarus]

Honestly, for screwing up bombers in particular I would suggest flying a StarGuard with protorps, ion guns, quads, and a directional shield. To take out the bomber you put power to shields, shields double front as you approach, and double back as you retreat. On the approach you use ion guns to strip his shields and sap his engines. You don't need to land very many hits to do this. After stripping his shields you fly out of the hot zone and take your sweet time locking on a PT. A good crit from that is fatal, if not rinse and repeat.

 

A good crit from a Proton Torpedo (for which there is only a 10% chance) does 1308 damage. A Bomber with 2400 hull will still take 3 PT's to destroy, even if one crits.

[Armonddd]

A good crit from a Proton Torpedo (for which there is only a 10% chance) does 1308 damage. A Bomber with 2400 hull will still take 3 PT's to destroy, even if one crits.

 

1% chance to two-shot a bomber. Yeah, I think protorps need to be looked at again. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they did over a thousand damage non-crit - in lore, a torp hit kills snubfighters, period.

 

Also, would like to point out that while an EMP missile can be used to negate engine abilities, they'll generally be used to prevent the missile from landing, meaning it's usually a moot point. (I know you probably realize that, Nemarus, but I'm not so sure the readers will.)

[Nemarus]

1% chance to two-shot a bomber. Yeah, I think protorps need to be looked at again. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if they did over a thousand damage non-crit - in lore, a torp hit kills snubfighters, period.

 

Also, would like to point out that while an EMP missile can be used to negate engine abilities, they'll generally be used to prevent the missile from landing, meaning it's usually a moot point. (I know you probably realize that, Nemarus, but I'm not so sure the readers will.)

 

Yup. I haven't gotten my EMP upgraded yet, but I was pondering this tactic: use a Cluster to draw out the Barrel Roll (which puts the enemy some distance from me), then follow up with the EMP Missile. Its engine-block lasts for 15 seconds, so I'll definitely be getting some utility out of it (plus 362 hull damage ain't bad). I can then follow up with sustained fire from HLC's and Clusters, both of which do further hull damage.

[Zharik]

A good crit from a Proton Torpedo (for which there is only a 10% chance) does 1308 damage. A Bomber with 2400 hull will still take 3 PT's to destroy, even if one crits.

 

This is the equivalent of saying that ions are terrible because they do no damage to the hull.

 

Anyone who waits for proton torpedoes to reload as their sole source of damage is a fool. But you knew that, so I am really wondering what the reasoning behind your post actually was?

 

 

-Gerrik/Brèn/Jordinn

[Armonddd]

This is the equivalent of saying that ions are terrible because they do no damage to the hull.

 

Anyone who waits for proton torpedoes to reload as their sole source of damage is a fool. But you knew that, so I am really wondering what the reasoning behind your post actually was?

 

 

-Gerrik/Brèn/Jordinn

 

Some of us communicate with our buddies and choose focus targets.

[Nemarus]

This is the equivalent of saying that ions are terrible because they do no damage to the hull.

 

Anyone who waits for proton torpedoes to reload as their sole source of damage is a fool. But you knew that, so I am really wondering what the reasoning behind your post actually was?

 

 

-Gerrik/Brèn/Jordinn

 

The problem is that Protons don't do damage to the shields... so sure you're doing hull damage, but you've still got 2500+ shields to get through. I'm not saying their worthless... just that PT's are not the perfect anti-bomber weapons some thought they might be.

[Zharik]

The problem is that Protons don't do damage to the shields... so sure you're doing hull damage, but you've still got 2500+ shields to get through. I'm not saying their worthless... just that PT's are not the perfect anti-bomber weapons some thought they might be.

 

But 1/3 or 1/2 a hull destroyed with one hit? They are not going to make a proton torp more powerful than it already is. It is a game balance issue more than a lore issue.

 

-Gerrik/Brèn/Jordinn

[Tenacity]

I mostly fly primary strike fighters, but I've been considering trying out a pike with clusters, concussion missiles, and ion cannons. On my starguard/enforcer I dont have much of a problem even getting concussion locks at close range, I've had a ton of practice with them, so getting a lock at close range with clusters should be easy enough for me, and the ion cannons can zap away shields in a couple of hits.

[Zharik]

I mostly fly primary strike fighters, but I've been considering trying out a pike with clusters, concussion missiles, and ion cannons. On my starguard/enforcer I dont have much of a problem even getting concussion locks at close range, I've had a ton of practice with them, so getting a lock at close range with clusters should be easy enough for me, and the ion cannons can zap away shields in a couple of hits.

 

They cannot use Ion cannons.

[elthenar]

They cannot use Ion cannons.

 

CCCCCCCCCOMBO BREAKER

 

 

On a more serious note, if you want to molest bombers, get a gunship. Ion rail makes them cry like babes, and after a hit from the Ion, slug tears them right up. Not to mention that ion chains clear out bomber deployables effortlessly.

 

 

For my missiles, I am in the same boat as many others. I will likely have all of them maxxed out and still be undecided, changing my loaded out frequently. The one thing that IS set in stone is protons on the Quell. There is just no reason not to.

[Tenacity]

They cannot use Ion cannons.

 

Oh, well that's a shame, thanks for saving me the requisition =P

 

I'll stick to my enforcer then.

[Altheran]

Honestly, for screwing up bombers in particular I would suggest flying a StarGuard with protorps, ion guns, quads, and a directional shield. To take out the bomber you put power to shields, shields double front as you approach, and double back as you retreat. On the approach you use ion guns to strip his shields and sap his engines. You don't need to land very many hits to do this. After stripping his shields you fly out of the hot zone and take your sweet time locking on a PT. A good crit from that is fatal, if not rinse and repeat.

 

Equipping a Starguard with both Ion Cannons and Proton Torpedoes don't make much sense. These weapons have the worst synergy ever. Range and damage capacity, anything oppose them.

 

Starguard may be the versatility ship, but by trying to do everything, you'll only be capable of assisting other ships in their tasks, and unable to stand on your own.

It's a waste in my opinion.

[Ramalina]

Proton and concussion. My favorite nasty trick is to start protons' lock at 11.5 km so it's easy to keep the target in the circle, and see if they blow evasion moves or boost. Assuming I get the lock, instead of firing right away I boost in, ideally to about 5km or so and then release. Drastically reduces flight time, and often surprises good pilots that expected to have time to pop a defensive cooldown. Followed by a concussion it is often fatal.

 

Another key for the longer range missiles is to hang out at about 13 to 10 km from potential targets. When you see them blow a defensive CD on someone else's missile lock boost to max torpedo range and start your lock.

 

At times it can even be worth loosing a missile to force someone to blow a CD.