So ... Bomber builds

[Brewski]

As I'm sure several others have done, I've been hoarding Fleet reqs and Daily/Weekly reward certs so I can unlock bombers and at least some upgrades as soon as I log in tomorrow. Nowhere near mastered, obviously, but enough to unlock both bomber types and a few upgrades for each. So my question is, what's everyone think the best components and upgrades will be for bombers?

 

Looking at the mine layer, I'm thinking the default setup seems pretty solid. I like the concussion/seismic mine combo for weaponry, so I'll probably leave it with that. For the drone carrier I'm thinking the Railgun looks better than the default Missile drone, but it's close. They seem a lot more balanced than the original drones in the closed beta.

 

Defense wise I'm thinking I like the support skills better than active defenses. The repair drone and shield restorer look more useful than the counterparts.

 

I'm not really sure with armor, though, as I think evasion is going to be of little use to a bomber. I'd say damage reduction would be better, but there are way too many armor ignores, so I'm guessing Reinforced is about the only way to go, especially with the repair drone option selected.

 

Thoughts? Anyone play heavily on the PTS with the latest iteration and have some insight?

[Nemarus]

As I'm sure several others have done, I've been hoarding Fleet reqs and Daily/Weekly reward certs so I can unlock bombers and at least some upgrades as soon as I log in tomorrow. Nowhere near mastered, obviously, but enough to unlock both bomber types and a few upgrades for each. So my question is, what's everyone think the best components and upgrades will be for bombers?

 

Looking at the mine layer, I'm thinking the default setup seems pretty solid. I like the concussion/seismic mine combo for weaponry, so I'll probably leave it with that. For the drone carrier I'm thinking the Railgun looks better than the default Missile drone, but it's close. They seem a lot more balanced than the original drones in the closed beta.

 

Defense wise I'm thinking I like the support skills better than active defenses. The repair drone and shield restorer look more useful than the counterparts.

 

I'm not really sure with armor, though, as I think evasion is going to be of little use to a bomber. I'd say damage reduction would be better, but there are way too many armor ignores, so I'm guessing Reinforced is about the only way to go, especially with the repair drone option selected.

 

Thoughts? Anyone play heavily on the PTS with the latest iteration and have some insight?

 

If you're going to take Reinforced Hull on anything, take it on a Bomber. Bomber has the highest base hull, thus benefits most of all classes from Reinforced Hull. Plus, at 2400 Hull, it would take three proton torpedoes to take you out--important to keep in mind since you have no missile-breaking ability.

 

I have some builds in mind, but I'm actually not going to talk much about them here Last time I made a post about a Gunship build/style, the next day everyone was using it (not claiming I invented it... just that I spread the word).

[DEATHICIDE]

I only managed to get in a few buggy matches, though I transferred a toon over a few different times with a nice stack of fleet req in his bank to try mastering a couple tiers on the carrier.

 

I tried the Railgun, and I tried the healing drone most.

 

The healing drone, well when you think about it, it is best used when dropped directly on top of a contested satellite in the middle of heavy action as the further away from this scenario you place it, the more redundant it became as players would regen for the most part on their way over to the thing, reaping increasingly less benefit.

 

The railgun seemed the most useful for catching weak opponents off guard, but the reaction on these things did not seem the best, and I would not say they are the most reliable choice vs say a proximity mine that the pilot can use directly.

 

The drones were also paper thin, and weaker than a standard satellite turret in the matches I played.

 

So my conclusion based on limited experience, and amidst many bugs at that, would be to not toss all your chips at the apparent winners right off the bat, being the railgun+heal drones as I think you will find them underwhelming after spending the requisition on them that could have been used on something which is not automated.

 

This is me being really picky here and assuming the match is elites vs elites as well, and I am being as critical as I can here, so I favor direct weapons, hands down.

 

What could multiple bombers do in a death match for example, with say a string of railgun bots deployed?

 

These types of things are yet to be seen by these eyes, but I am sure that in any 2vs2 encounter, user controlled options will win against deploy-able bot options.

 

I really wish the PTS was more active during testing so we could have had some REAL testing done, but unfortunately, this is the best I could do with what little time we had to work with.

 

I hate to end with this, but after the limited testing, I think the best feedback I can give is choose the loadout you think you will have the most fun using, and lose the fantasy of raildrones and heal drones being totally awesome, because they pop faster than they get laid down vs any half witted opposition so will have to be strategically deployed at the time you want their benefit, expecting them to be in play for only several seconds as such.

[Armonddd]

I'm gonna pick up the minelayer with heavy lasers (ignore armor/shield penetration), seeker mines (increased speed/additional active mine), hyperspace beacon (hyperspace slingshot), interdiction mine (additional active mine/hull resonance), shield projector (initial boost), dampening sensors, large reactor, reinforced armor, and munitions capacity extender. Idea is to find a choke point and make the other guys work for it or stop using it entirely.

 

Why seeker over seismic? Because you can drop three at a node or choke point and only another bomber is going to get out of there without some hull damage, and scouts aren't going to get out of there at all. Seismics are amazing at making people not want to sit on the node, but you only get one of them, and they don't really do too much damage (comparatively!). I would use them if they had significant support or utility aspects, but they only get one piddly debuff that comes at the cost of increased radius. Crew is Blizz/C2-N2, MZ-12/B-3G9 (copilot for hydro spanner, which Bowdaar doesn't get for some reason), Treek, and Doc/Writch Hurley.

 

Concussion mines look like a... trap. Three concussion mines will blow things up, but two concussion mines will do more guaranteed hull damage and set the guy up for aft penetration. And shield piercing on a node is hugely important; I can't tell you how many times I've hugged a node for a minute or so because I had enough time for my shields to regen after each hit. Ion mines continue the tradition of ion banning people from the game, but 50% movement speed and 330 hull damage go a long way towards a kill, which is the ultimate intent of banning someone with ion.

 

I have some builds in mind, but I'm actually not going to talk much about them here Last time I made a post about a Gunship build/style, the next day everyone was using it (not claiming I invented it... just that I spread the word).

 

I think you overestimate the delta between when you figure out a build on your own and when the rest of the world figures it out on their own.

 

Also, on Pot5 at the least, good gunships have always used that build because gunships don't have much in the way of viable options.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Armonddd

[Suzina]

Builds and strats that are posted now are always speculation. Not only were we unable to get matches on the PTS this time to test out the new versions of the bomber, we don't know how the meta-game of the community will react.

 

I'm thinking for the Minelayer, the hyperspace beacon is one of the main reasons to get the thing instead of the Legion. There are just too many gameplay implications of the Hyperspace Beacon, and it's removal from the Legion is noticeable. I probably wouldn't want to bring out my Legion unless there was a Hyperspace Beacon because it takes sooo long to get anywhere when I last played the old bomber in closed beta.

 

I predict a lot of name calling and gnashing of teeth once the Bomber comes out. I don't expect any guides actually based on experience until after people have had a couple of weeks to learn strategys for the bomber and the community has had a chance to develop counter strats.

[Brewski]

You can have two seekers, but each only targets a single ship, whereas the Seismic is AoE damage. I'm thinking the combination of a Seismic and a set of Concussions sitting on a node are going to take to a whole new level, and scout pilots (like me) are going to learn quick that diving into a node and hugging the walls will be a quick way to die. I think fighting is going to move away from the node, and I think that's a good thing. I also think that is going to make strikers more important as they have more ability to hit mines, drones and bombers from outside the detonation range.

 

I'm curious about dampening sensors. Are they really going to be effective on a bomber? Gunships absolutely need them, since their whole design is built around not being seen. Bombers, though, are always going to be in the same places. Either at a nod, traveling between nodes, or traveling to one from their spawn point. Given how slow and ponderous they are, hiding out somewhere is not really going to be an option. I'm leaning towards communication sensors myself to let my team know how many people are currently at the mode I'm working.

 

Also you mention using the munitions capacity extender. Does this affect mines or drone at all? If not, and you don't plan to take missiles, I think power pool might be better.

[Brewski]

Builds and strats that are posted now are always speculation. Not only were we unable to get matches on the PTS this time to test out the new versions of the bomber, we don't know how the meta-game of the community will react.

 

I'm thinking for the Minelayer, the hyperspace beacon is one of the main reasons to get the thing instead of the Legion. There are just too many gameplay implications of the Hyperspace Beacon, and it's removal from the Legion is noticeable. I probably wouldn't want to bring out my Legion unless there was a Hyperspace Beacon because it takes sooo long to get anywhere when I last played the old bomber in closed beta.

 

I predict a lot of name calling and gnashing of teeth once the Bomber comes out. I don't expect any guides actually based on experience until after people have had a couple of weeks to learn strategys for the bomber and the community has had a chance to develop counter strats.

 

Ah, but speculation is fun. (Which is really the point of this thread.)

 

I agree there will be a lot of bomber/OP threads here for a while. However, I think gunships are going to be the main anti-bomber weapons of choice, since a bomber really has no effective strategy against one.

[Kaivers]

Ah, but speculation is fun. (Which is really the point of this thread.)

 

I agree there will be a lot of bomber/OP threads here for a while. However, I think gunships are going to be the main anti-bomber weapons of choice, since a bomber really has no effective strategy against one.

 

I'm going to set up a repair center in the bowels of my Cap Ship. A location where the turrets can protect me and Gunships don't have LOS.

[Nemarus]

Ah, but speculation is fun. (Which is really the point of this thread.)

 

I agree there will be a lot of bomber/OP threads here for a while. However, I think gunships are going to be the main anti-bomber weapons of choice, since a bomber really has no effective strategy against one.

 

I agree that Gunships are likely the best anti-Bomber weapons. And in truth, I think Ion Railgun will be even more important against Bombers than it is now, given how immensely huge Bomber shields can get, and given the AOE of the Ion Railgun taking out mines and drones (presumably).

 

At first when I came to this conclusion, I was disappointed--do Gunship need yet another target they are strong against? But the more I think about it, the more this may be a good thing for Scouts and Strikes. If a Bomber is present on a node, a Gunship really should be focusing on it, which should hopefully free up Scouts and Strikes a bit more.

 

We'll see how it all plays out.

 

As for Miner vs. Droner ... it's hard to say.

 

Miner gets exclusive access to Hyperspace Beacon, but I'm not convinced HB is going to be all that much of a game-changer. They can be destroyed just like any drone, and they go away if the parent Bomber dies. Plus, taking it means you give up some big survivability or mobility options.

 

Droner gets exclusive access to Repair Drone, which I think is a bit bigger deal. It's really one of the first useful team utility abilities we've seen, which I think will fill a playstyle niche that a lot of people are looking for. Plus its base function--repairing hull damage--could really change up the current meta around shield-piercing weapons.

 

Other than those two components, the biggest difference between the two is the behavior of mines vs. drones. Mines do their damage once--but against multiple targets. Drones do sustained damage over time until destroyed and can influence a much larger area. Mines have a shorter cooldown but also have a much smaller scope of influence.

 

I think a Droner can do a lot more damage if not properly countered, but can be shut down for long durations if its drones are destroyed. Whereas a Miner's effectiveness is more in its pilot's control. If a mine is destroyed, it's not too long until another one can be deployed.

 

I think a Miner and a Droner working together might be the most devastating way for Bombers to work--each one complements the other.

[Brewski]

I think a Miner and a Droner working together might be the most devastating way for Bombers to work--each one complements the other.

 

This.

 

If I have a concern for bomber release it's that it will likely increase the gap between organized teams and pugs. A four man team with a mine layer and bomber to hold a node and a couple of scouts or strikers to cover them will be a hard not to crack. Killing the bombers from range will be difficult with guards, and killing off the guards will not be all that effective, since they can respawn on the node and can also be repaired and rearmed on the fly. Taking a node from an organized team could be near impossible without another organized team.

[DroidDreamer]

Great discussion! Keep it rolling! I googled bombers and 2.6 and found very few places where they are being discussed so it's nice to spark it up here.

 

I'm also curious about whether the munitions increase effects mines. Anyone know the answer?

 

One thing I want to note about the hyperspace beacon is that unlike a lot of engine abilities that look similar, this ability gives the minelayer a HUGE engine "butt." I mean that thing is sorely obvious. So everyone will know who has the ability to spawn the thing.

 

I am very excited that mines, drones, etc. are going to make hitting the x-button a lot less useful. Of course, an x-hitting bomber surrounded by mines and drones is going to be hard to dislodge but, hey, area denial is more their playstyle.

[Nemarus]

Great discussion! Keep it rolling! I googled bombers and 2.6 and found very few places where they are being discussed so it's nice to spark it up here.

 

I'm also curious about whether the munitions increase effects mines. Anyone know the answer?

 

One thing I want to note about the hyperspace beacon is that unlike a lot of engine abilities that look similar, this ability gives the minelayer a HUGE engine "butt." I mean that thing is sorely obvious. So everyone will know who has the ability to spawn the thing.

 

I am very excited that mines, drones, etc. are going to make hitting the x-button a lot less useful. Of course, an x-hitting bomber surrounded by mines and drones is going to be hard to dislodge but, hey, area denial is more their playstyle.

 

Not sure about on the PTS, but in closed beta mines and drones had infinite ammo.

[Luneward]

I have about 30k requisition saved up in my storage, so I'm going to mostly spend matches experimenting with components. I'm probably going to build my drone as a pure utility build and my minelayer as a sat clearing device. The most annoying part of any match is trying to dislodge a skilled sat orbiter. While I was thinking of going for pure hull damage in my mines, Armondd had some more specific information about the number of mines, so I'm probably going to keep that in mind as I experiment.

[DroidDreamer]

Not sure about on the PTS, but in closed beta mines and drones had infinite ammo.

 

That's what I recall about the closed beta and the one buggy-as-hell que pop I got on the PTS recently: That mines work more like ability cool downs than missiles with actual ammo counts. Seems number of mines is determined by talents. Anyone with contrary knowledge should correct us.

[Davionix]

This.

 

If I have a concern for bomber release it's that it will likely increase the gap between organized teams and pugs. A four man team with a mine layer and bomber to hold a node and a couple of scouts or strikers to cover them will be a hard not to crack. Killing the bombers from range will be difficult with guards, and killing off the guards will not be all that effective, since they can respawn on the node and can also be repaired and rearmed on the fly. Taking a node from an organized team could be near impossible without another organized team.

 

This is where I think pikes will serve a great role with emp missile.

 

Pike has the shield & hull points to absorb a few missiles it may get during emp missile locking and unlike novadive system does not have to get into detonation radius to disable.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Davionix

[Kaizersan]

I only managed to get in a few buggy matches, though I transferred a toon over a few different times with a nice stack of fleet req in his bank to try mastering a couple tiers on the carrier.

 

I tried the Railgun, and I tried the healing drone most.

 

The healing drone, well when you think about it, it is best used when dropped directly on top of a contested satellite in the middle of heavy action as the further away from this scenario you place it, the more redundant it became as players would regen for the most part on their way over to the thing, reaping increasingly less benefit.

 

The railgun seemed the most useful for catching weak opponents off guard, but the reaction on these things did not seem the best, and I would not say they are the most reliable choice vs say a proximity mine that the pilot can use directly.

 

The drones were also paper thin, and weaker than a standard satellite turret in the matches I played.

 

So my conclusion based on limited experience, and amidst many bugs at that, would be to not toss all your chips at the apparent winners right off the bat, being the railgun+heal drones as I think you will find them underwhelming after spending the requisition on them that could have been used on something which is not automated.

 

This is me being really picky here and assuming the match is elites vs elites as well, and I am being as critical as I can here, so I favor direct weapons, hands down.

 

What could multiple bombers do in a death match for example, with say a string of railgun bots deployed?

 

These types of things are yet to be seen by these eyes, but I am sure that in any 2vs2 encounter, user controlled options will win against deploy-able bot options.

 

I really wish the PTS was more active during testing so we could have had some REAL testing done, but unfortunately, this is the best I could do with what little time we had to work with.

 

I hate to end with this, but after the limited testing, I think the best feedback I can give is choose the loadout you think you will have the most fun using, and lose the fantasy of raildrones and heal drones being totally awesome, because they pop faster than they get laid down vs any half witted opposition so will have to be strategically deployed at the time you want their benefit, expecting them to be in play for only several seconds as such.

 

I can tell you from testing this I had 4 rail gun drones and 4 healer drones around me in a death match and the other team was not able to kill me due to fast death from my missiles and the drones and the healing from 4 healer drones and they were dying so much that they just avoided coming near my camp point.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Kaizersan

[MystbladeWA]

Now that Bombers have been out a bit. What are pilots liking as far as set ups?

[Onodrain]

I prefer damage over debuffs. And do not like missiles on my bombers. So go with seeker mines rather than the proton/concussion torpedoes.

 

I prefer the missile sentry drone on the carrier. Though the blaster/missile have shorter reach than the railgun drone, I prefer the rate of fire. I also use repair done and shield power converter. For repair drone, I repair shields rather than fill up missiles. Everybody has shields. Much fewer people need missiles reloaded.

 

For crew I maximize shields, lower the cost of using engine and blasters, and use the accuracy debuff for my crew skill (suppression).

 

I use heavy lasers on Imp side and light lasers on republic. Light much better when not fully upgraded. I expect heavy lasers to come into their own when I can afford the 100% armor upgrade.

 

For the mining bomber I make it a close range dogfighter with seeker mines, concussion mines, shield projector and shield power converter.

[Applejacxs]

trying ion mines ill try a few more upgrades on them but there not that impressive so far

[MystbladeWA]

I'm also curious about whether the munitions increase effects mines. Anyone know the answer?

 

Anyone have a definitive answer regarding this? Does it for eg, allow you to place 2 seismic mines rather than one when fully upgraded?