The REAL Most Powerful Revisited

[Selenial]

You take her seriously? Who until recently didn't even knew that Sith Emperor is an ancient Sith Lord? Says a lot.

 

LeGenD taking a quote out of context? Shocker

You said he knows force drain (as in the attack) simply because he's an ancient sith. I said he's not an ancient sith in that respect because he never trained at any academies before leaving for DK, and it's never shown in his Sith Empire. You completely ignored that because it made you look like an imbecile, not my problem.

 

 

You should keep your attitude under check, my tolerance have limits.

 

I am not going to respect you just because you are a girl. You need to be respectful to others to earn their respect.

 

Don't make Star Wars an obsession and basis to ridicule others. It is just Sci-Fi.

 

If I had posted that to annoy you, I'd have poked fun at your grammar, however I understand here, English is a second language for some, including myself, and I am not an ******e. The post was simply my observation of your admirable stubbornness, and what a waste of time it is to argue with you.

 

Also, sexist comments are not necessary. Besides, I neither need, nor want, your respect.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

Besides, I neither need, nor want, your respect.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Its out of context because Plagueis was not injured at that time.

Plagueis got injured in the battle during assassins and his powers didn't diminish due to those wounds. Later on, he gave Sidious a lecture about this matter.

 

When injured Plagueis was forced to divert his attention to keeping himself alive which would have demanded both physical attention and Force exertion - meaning his ability to attack with the Force would have been diminished.

He is an alien, not a human. Biological limitations of humans do not apply on him.

 

What the novel is saying here is that those injuries were not permanent, Plagueis recovered from his wounds and became more powerful than ever, refuting Sidious' assumption that it may have permanently weakened him.

I have read the novel, he was in the process of healing when he had this discussion with Sidious. Also, he didn't became more powerful then ever, he said that he would become more powerful in the near future (likely on the basis of his experiments).

 

All in all you have failed to understand (or deliberately overlooked) the difference between temporary and permanent effects, whether that is a cause for embarrassment is up to you to decide I suppose. Its certainly not a surprise.

No, you keep on thinking that your grasp of literature is always perfect. Do not try to think less of intellectuality of others, you are intellectually gifted but this doesn't means only you are. You are prone to making as much mistakes in your assessments like others are. I can post examples but I will leave this matter out of respect of personally respecting you.

 

LeGenD taking a quote out of context? Shocker

You said he knows force drain (as in the attack) simply because he's an ancient sith. I said he's not an ancient sith in that respect because he never trained at any academies before leaving for DK, and it's never shown in his Sith Empire. You completely ignored that because it made you look like an imbecile, not my problem.

Making stuff now? This is complete and utter BS.

 

You didn't even knew that Sith Emperor was an ancient Sith some days back and you try to pretend to be an expert in matters of Star Wars? Want me to dig up that quote of yours?

 

If I had posted that to annoy you, I'd have poked fun at your grammar, however I understand here, English is a second language for some, including myself, and I am not an ******e. The post was simply my observation of your admirable stubbornness, and what a waste of time it is to argue with you.

 

Also, sexist comments are not necessary. Besides, I neither need, nor want, your respect.

But you are trying to annoy me with rude remarks. Ever since I have posted in this forum, you have been showing attitude towards me. You better change your attitude or expect to be responded in kind from now own.

 

Don't like my views on matters of Star Wars? no problem. But I am not going to keep quiet if you choose to insult me or pass rude remarks about me.

 

I am not stubborn, I debate only on the matters that I find worth correcting. Lot of times, I do not even participate in these debates. But when I do, you better be civil with me or don't bother posting.

 

And don't give me that sexist BS either, I don't care if you are a girl or not. I will disrespect you, if you will disrespect me. Some people try to be lenient with girls and overlook their questionable attitude but I am not one of them.

Edited February 11, 2014 by S_W_LeGenD

[Aurbere]

And why should I drop it? Are you willing to overlook similar claims for other characters including your favorites? It is absolutely relevant interpretation of Emperor's power in the lore.

 

My favorite character doesn't need quotes. He has some decent ones, sure, but I don't rely on them to make a point.

 

Your premise is flawed unfortunately. A character's strength(s) are not just identified on the basis of his own feats but also how he stacks up in comparison to his surroundings. Sith Emperor became more powerful then many iconic characters in the mythos including Tulak Hord, Marka Ragnos, Exar Kun, Darth Traya, Darth Sion, Darth Nihilus, Revan..........the list is so big. Emperor's own apprentice have very impressive feats to her name which in turn positively reflects on the capabilities and power of the Emperor himself, he can do BETTER. In this manner, we have a another reasonable "measuring stick" for Emperor's capabilities to consider.

 

I deal only in what characters have done. This prevents me from making stretches in logic in any argument. (I tend to do that, given the chance)

 

Sith Emperor "all but atomized" heavily armored T3-M4 droid with his telekinetic abilities. In addition, Scourge saw visions of his termination at the hands of Emperor in every conceivable way which covers the possibility of his atomization at the hands of Sith Emperor from his powers. Clear enough?

 

Non-comparable. Plagueis did his feat when on the verge of death. Unless the Emperor had his throat cut open when he did that, I don't see a comparison to be made in your favor.

 

You mean chapter 28?

 

No, I've been re-reading the Revan novel and I'm struggling to find a reason to continue reading after Chapter 3's epic fail.

 

“You can’t defeat all three of us,” Revan said. “United, we are stronger than even you.”

“That remains to be seen,” the Emperor replied.

 

For Scourge, the universe suddenly seemed frozen in place, as if time itself had stopped. He realized he was at a crux in history; fate and destiny would be forever altered in the next few moments.

 

The Force washed over him in a wave, and a million possible futures flickered through his mind simultaneously. In some the Emperor was no more; in others he had transformed the entire galaxy into an empty wasteland. He saw both Revan’s triumph and defeat in the throne room; he saw variations of his own life and death played out over and over in every conceivable way, shape, and form.

 

He had to choose, but there was no way to know which was the most likely outcome, or what actions of his would lead to which results. Revan had said visions could guide the Jedi, but for Scourge they brought nothing but confusion. The moment passed and the universe began to move again, though everything seemed to be happening in slow motion. Revan and Meetra stepped forward, ready to initiate the final confrontation. Scourge knew he had to act now; he had to make his choice.

 

Vague quote. Even in its proper context. Let me guess, one of those ways was the Emperor devouring Revan's lightsaber and spitting plasma bolts. (Beni, think back to where I picked that from )

 

Actually I see a connection between that revelation and the events that took place during Plagueis's battle with assassins. Plaguies's powers didn't diminish by the wounds inflicted upon him by the assassins and this is why he was able to "all but atomize" them. No rocket science here.

 

That quote was a very long time after the attack and had nothing to do with the attack in its context.

 

I am not going to end up embarrassed because I can connect the dots better then you.

 

You made up your own dots to make a huge leap in logic.

 

You take her seriously? Who until recently didn't even knew that Sith Emperor is an ancient Sith Lord? Says a lot.

 

I took her at her word. She's very knowledgeable and I happen to trust her. I'm sure the feeling is mutual.

[Beniboybling]

No, you keep on thinking that your grasp of literature is always perfect. Do not try to think less of intellectuality of others, you are intellectually gifted but this doesn't means only you are. You are prone to making as much mistakes in your assessments like others are. I can post examples but I will leave this matter out of respect of personally respecting you.

I admit that was uncalled for, I apologise if I caused offence.

 

But to address your points.

 

1. This is not what the novel is implying, look closely at the following:

 

“Do you think that Malak’s powers were weakened by Revan’s lightsaber? Bane by being encrusted in orbalisks? Do you think Gravid’s young apprentice was hindered by the prosthesis she was forced to wear after fighting him?”

Malak was defeated when Revan cut off his jaw with a lightsaber. If Malak had not suffered any temporary weakness, the duel would have continued. Bane was almost dead when the orbalisks on his body were removed, he was temporarily weakened. Gravid cleaved off his apprentice's left arm, shoulder, face, and torso, which severely crippled her - she was temporarily weakened. The fact that Plagueis reels off a long list of Sith who suffered injury in battle, were weakened by it, but recovered to become as a strong as before implies Plagueis underwent the same experience.

 

Nowhere is it stated that Plagueis was not temporarily weakened.

 

This is only proof that he was not permanently weakened, and you will find yourself unable to refer to a specific passage or sentence that even suggests otherwise. So I suggest you concede this point.

 

2. Muuns are no more physically durable than humans. They have three hearts yes, but they are still capable of feeling the effects of grievous injury, which Plagueis did, to quote the novel in a more relevant context:

Plagueis knew that he had lost a great deal of blood, and that one of his subsidiary hearts was in fibrillation. Sith techniques had helped him perform chemical cardioversions on his other two hearts, but one of them was working so hard to compensate that it, too, was in danger of becoming arrhythmic.

 

...

 

The wait lasted only until Plagueis attempted to unleash lightning. His second subsidiary heart failed, paralyzing him with pain and nearly plunging him into unconsciousness. The assassins wasted not a moment, throwing themselves at him in groups, though in a vain attempt to penetrate the Force shield he raised. Again he rallied, this time with a ragged sound dredged from deep inside that erupted from him like a sonic weapon, shattering the eardrums of those within ten meters and compelling the rest to bring their hands to their ears.

 

In blinding motion his hands and feet smashed skulls and windpipes. He stopped once to conjure a Force wave that all but atomized the bodies of six Maladians. He spun through a turn, dragging the wave halfway around the room to kill half a dozen more.

Noting that Plagueis also unleashes a powerful Force shout despite having a severed trachea, which we should also be aware would have prevented Plagueis from breathing, at all, Muuns need oxygen to survive.

 

3. But was no longer experiencing gross blood loss, heart failure, a complete lack of oxygen and the indescribable pain that comes from having half of your face severed off. As you can imagine he'd be feeling quite different.

 

And in regards to that I was referring to this quote:

Seen through the Force, he was a nuclear oval of mottled light, a rotating orb of terrifying energy. If the Maladian attack had weakened him physically, it had also helped to shape his etheric body into a vessel sufficiently strong to contain the full power of the dark side. Determined never again to be caught off guard, he had trained himself to go without sleep, and had devoted two standard decades to day-and-night experimentation with midi-chlorian manipulation and attempts to wrest a few last secrets from the Force, so that he—and presumably his human apprentice—might live forever. His inward turn had enabled him to master the equally powerful energies of order and disorder, creation and entropy, life and death.

This did not happen immediately, but eventually Plagueis grew stronger than before. He also discovered how to become immortal, which is something you have overlooked in your assessment of the Sith Emperor.

[Selenial]

Making stuff now? This is complete and utter BS.

 

You didn't even knew that Sith Emperor was an ancient Sith some days back and you try to pretend to be an expert in matters of Star Wars? Want me to dig up that quote of yours?

 

 

But you are trying to annoy me with rude remarks. Ever since I have posted in this forum, you have been showing attitude towards me. You better change your attitude or expect to be responded in kind from now own.

 

Don't like my views on matters of Star Wars? no problem. But I am not going to keep quiet if you choose to insult me or pass rude remarks about me.

 

I am not stubborn, I debate only on the matters that I find worth correcting. Lot of times, I do not even participate in these debates. But when I do, you better be civil with me or don't bother posting.

 

And don't give me that sexist BS either, I don't care if you are a girl or not. I will disrespect you, if you will disrespect me. Some people try to be lenient with girls and overlook their questionable attitude but I am not one of them.

I assume you mean making stuff up.

 

Go ahead, find the quote, then I'll promptly show you my reply to that, which clears up what I meant.

 

Oh, and it wasn't "Some days ago" it was months ago. And anyone here will happily inform you I have more Star Wars knowledge in my Cerrebelum (Which yes, is a joke for those that would correct me ) than you have ever possibly absorbed from the 3 canon sources you've read.

I might buy that you'd read more, if you didn't want to take things out of context dramatically using quotes from the SWTORE and that Derpashyn novel Revan.

[LadyKulvax]

I think I'll sit this one out.

 

Dead horse is dead Jim.

[Selenial]

I can't be the only one who just read that the quote saying the Sith Emperor was more powerful than Nihilus...

[Beniboybling]

(Beni, think back to where I picked that from )

I can't imagine where, your Royal Vagueness.

 

Wait, wait, its from here right!

 

But seriously, if Legend is in fact implying that this is evidence to suggest that the Sith Emperor is capable of atomizing individuals in the way that Plagueis did. I reject it whole heartedly. It is even more tenous an assumption based than the notion that because in a Kaggath two members of the DC destroyed the original Sith Citadel, that the Sith Emperor is therefore capable of destroying the Sith Citadel with TK single handedly given that he is superior to them.

 

We simply cannot make these leaps in logic, regardless if true. As the Emperor himself

 

Anyway, any further thoughts concerning Plagueis vs the Sith Emperor?

[Beniboybling]

The Sith Emperor's combative abilities by comparison are amateur hour, I wouldn't even believe the statement that the Sith Emperor himself stands up to either Exar Kun or Darth Traya in a one on one confrontation, I believe that his combative powers are seriously lacking and that is why he falls short.

Combative abilities only reflect, do not accurately indicate, Force powers.

 

Clearly the Sith Emperor is a scholar, and combat is not his specialty. Regardess the fact that he went toe-to-toe (though eventually lost) to the Hero of Tython suggests he is able to capably apply himself in this field.

 

All in all aside from midi-chlorian manipulation, I don't think Plagueis surpasses the Emperor in any categories.

[Aurbere]

I can't imagine where, your Royal Vagueness.

 

Wait, wait, its from here right!

 

lol, but no. Here:

 

Lord Emperor would catch a lightsaber with his teeth and spit blaster projectiles into Revan.

[Beniboybling]

I can't be the only one who just read that the quote saying the Sith Emperor was more powerful than Nihilus...

Legend says a lot of things I disagree with, I'm since learned its best to ignore those that don't directly concern me...

 

That said I think Legend should be aware that Darth Nihilus is a natural phenomena/anomaly and not strictly a Force user with a distinct power level, therefore he is somewhat exempt to quotes claiming the Sith Emperor to be the most powerful dark side master up until that point. We shouldn't so readily assume that Nihilus is inferior to him.

 

In truth, under the right circumstances Nihilus can destroy anybody.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Combative abilities only reflect, do not accurately indicate, Force powers.

 

Clearly the Sith Emperor is a scholar, and combat is not his specialty. Regardess the fact that he went toe-to-toe (though eventually lost) to the Hero of Tython suggests he is able to capably apply himself in this field.

 

All in all aside from midi-chlorian manipulation, I don't think Plagueis surpasses the Emperor in any categories.

 

TK? Healing? Lighting? Concealment? Force Deflection/Absorbtion? Force Scream? Speed/Strength? Dueling?

 

Ya sure Plagueis doesn't surpass Vitiate anywhere else?

[LadyKulvax]

I can't be the only one who just read that the quote saying the Sith Emperor was more powerful than Nihilus...

 

Vitiate: "My life spans millennia. Legions have risen to test me. My ascendance is inevitable. A day, a year, a millennium—it matters not. I hold the patience of stone and the will of stars. Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same."

 

Nihilus: "

"

 

Vitiate: *Gulp*

 

 

Dark Council: How did he manage to destroy our all-powerful Emperor?

 

*Visas walks slowly into the Council Chamber*

 

"Did you think you would be safe, here, on Dromund Kaas? my master sees beyond our realm, you are dust motes in a storm… a grain upon the beach… and as insignificant as a body that orbits the graveyard of Malachor and now you will die with your Empire."

 

*Nihilus' figure envelopes the entrance and the Council trembles in terror as his presence, slowly dying.*

 

----------

 

Yeh that's what would happen to Vitiate and his Empire if Nihilus had gone on un-checked.

Edited February 11, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Aurbere]

Vitiate: "My life spans millennia. Legions have risen to test me. My ascendance is inevitable. A day, a year, a millennium—it matters not. I hold the patience of stone and the will of stars. Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same."

 

Nihilus: "

"

 

Vitiate: *Gulp*

 

That would be awesome!

Edited February 11, 2014 by Aurbere

[Beniboybling]

TK? Healing? Lighting? Concealment? Force Deflection/Absorbtion? Force Scream? Speed/Strength? Dueling?

 

Ya sure Plagueis doesn't surpass Vitiate anywhere else?

In fields in which they are comparable.

[Selenial]

Combative abilities only reflect, do not accurately indicate, Force powers.

 

Clearly the Sith Emperor is a scholar, and combat is not his specialty. Regardess the fact that he went toe-to-toe (though eventually lost) to the Hero of Tython suggests he is able to capably apply himself in this field.

 

All in all aside from midi-chlorian manipulation, I don't think Plagueis surpasses the Emperor in any categories.

 

The hero of tython was on a Dark Side planet where even the best of Jedi couldn't call on the force without monumentous effort...

Edited February 11, 2014 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

The hero of tython was on a Dark Side planet where even the best of Jedi couldn't call on the force without monumentous effort...

But he was if I recall protected from the ill effects on the spirit of Orgus Din...

 

In fact, I expect the Sith Emperor was banking on that weakening him. But he miscalculated.

[Beniboybling]

lol, but no. Here:

Oh, lol. I remember that. Its time like that that you think you've seen everything, and are proven wrong.

[Selenial]

But he was if I recall protected from the ill effects on the spirit of Orgus Din...

 

In fact, I expect the Sith Emperor was banking on that weakening him. But he miscalculated.

 

Oh really? Don't remember that anywhere....

 

Either way, combat shows a lot. The Emperor found a ritual where the sith had to sacrifice themselves to him, and he got powerful, but still hasn't been able to show combat feats the strength of Plageuis.

 

You can't say compare them in aspects where they are comparable... and then not.

[tunewalker]

The hero of tython was on a Dark Side planet where even the best of Jedi couldn't call on the force without monumentous effort...

 

I believe we covered the idea that he may have been protected by the Spirit of his Master, as thats what allowed him to break free of the emperor to begin with. Also the Jedi who had the greatest problems on Kaas did come 3 thousand years later and considering the war and the sith are still in full swing with experiments on Kaas I assume its Dark Side Taint would be stronger 3000 years later then it was at that time. Just some thoughts on that matter.

[Aurbere]

Oh, lol. I remember that. Its time like that that you think you've seen everything, and are proven wrong.

 

I know what you mean. It still baffles me to this day.

[Selenial]

I believe we covered the idea that he may have been protected by the Spirit of his Master, as thats what allowed him to break free of the emperor to begin with. Also the Jedi who had the greatest problems on Kaas did come 3 thousand years later and considering the war and the sith are still in full swing with experiments on Kaas I assume its Dark Side Taint would be stronger 3000 years later then it was at that time. Just some thoughts on that matter.

 

Perhaps. But I thought it was a great effort for Din to even appear on the space station.

 

Oh, and the planet stopped Kira from being able to call on the force as much, she said so herself, so it still happened.

[LadyKulvax]

That would be awesome!

 

Vitiate: "My life spans millennia. Legions have risen to test me. My ascendance is inevitable. A day, a year, a millennium—it matters not. I hold the patience of stone and the will of stars. Your striving is insignificant. Let your death be the same."

 

Nihilus: "................"

 

Vitiate: *Gulp*

 

*Nihilus drains him to death*

 

Dark Council: How did he manage to destroy our all-powerful Emperor?

 

*Visas walks slowly into the Council Chamber*

 

"Did you think you would be safe, here, on Dromund Kaas? my master sees beyond our realm, you are dust motes in a storm… a grain upon the beach… and as insignificant as a body that orbits the graveyard of Malachor and now you will die with your Empire."

 

*Nihilus' figure envelopes the entrance and the Council trembles in terror at his presence, slowly dying.*

 

----------

 

Yeh that's what would happen to Vitiate and his Empire if Nihilus had gone on un-checked.

 

Okay I decided to go full on, bwahaha.

Edited February 11, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Wolfninjajedi]

I believe we covered the idea that he may have been protected by the Spirit of his Master.

 

Isn't that kinda speculation? Because...I find it rather hard to believe, that Orgus Din was able to protect the HoT from the effects of Kass, breaking out of the SE control sure...I suppose I could go with that. Whereas Yoda, ya know the most powerful Jedi up until Luke was unable to stand on Kass for long. That just...doesn't seem to add up.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi