Consular/Inquisitor way ahead - fixing the 'statstick' issue without breaking balance

[RowanThursday]

One frequent cause of contention on these forums and in the game is the issue of newly minted Sages and Sorcerors - seemingly slightly more commonly Sages- bemoaning their discovery that their recently acquired lightsaber is, in the hands of their chosen Advanced Class, "just a statstick" with no practical value in combat.

 

The complaint usually takes the form of "My sage doesn't feel like a Jedi, just some kind of wizard", followed by various examples of how even the most spiritual Jedi or Sith in other media still effectively used their saber. The counter-argument usually given by others is along the lines of either "if you give sages melee power you'll break balance" or "no, ranged classes are melee-weak, that's how it works"- with a certain overlap between them.

 

Bear with me at this point, I'll try to keep to sensible paragraphs but, in order to propose a solution to the problem, it's necessary to briefly show the working that explains why it is a solution- and also the limits to it. For clarity I'm also going to just discuss the "Jedi" variant- please mentally substitute Sith and their relevant mirror classes where appropriate if needed.

 

"Jedi" have been around in the public imagination for nearly forty years at this point, and most people going in to play a Star Wars game have a fair concept of what a Jedi should be, what they expect from the class. Of course, it's not "one" thing, there've been a lot of different Jedi with a range of strengths, from spiritual healers and telekinetics to 'Knights with preternatural reflexes and senses', and everywhere in between.

 

"Everywhere in between" describes a long line, a continuous variation of Jedi traits, with, say, a Sage Seer at one end and a Tank Guardian at the other. Just like any other continuous variation, it's a bell curve, with the greatest number of people's idea of the "typical Jedi" or the "real Jedi" or "feeling like a proper Jedi" being close to the centre.

 

That's not to say everyone wants to play something in the centre- many Sages (or, indeed, Guardians) may well want to play an *atypical* Jedi- one who has a saber because he or she's a Jedi- but doesn't really need or use it.

 

However, in designing a game it would be a fair working assumption that, of your incoming playerbase, a substantial large number *will* want to aim around the middle point.

 

Now... games are divided into classes. We have four types of Jedi, counting advanced classes. Shared trees bridge some of the gap between Sage and Shadow, and between Sentinel and Guardian- but not between Shadow and Sentinel.

 

To get the greatest range of the large field of "Jedi" covered, and the greatest and most balanced number of gameplay options, these four need to be- and pretty much *are* spaced equidistantly along this gradient, from 'near pure-force user' at one end to 'knight with mystical leanings and paladin-esque skills' at the other. The problem with this is that four points evenly spaced on a line leaves a gap in the middle.

 

Our "typical Jedi" in the average conception is somewhere *between* Consular and Knight. A fast moving whirling blaze of saber energy, who fights combining enhanced physical activities at melee range and the ability to telekinetically strike from afar.

 

Of the two, at the basic starting level, Consular looks *slightly* more it than Knight does, since they get their 'cool' abilities sooner, but both could potentially be 'it'.

 

Now... at level 10, something happens to the Consular which is unique to them of the game classes- which is to say that the class 'stops'.

 

For the Knight, Guardian and Sentinel digress significantly from each *other*, but both feel like a continuation of the developing playstyle of the Knight.

 

For the Smuggler, whilst Scoundrel requires a re-imagining and definitely changed approach, Gunslinger provides a 'more of the same' roleplay option.

 

I can't comment on Trooper, not having played it, but the Bounty Hunter's options suggest that, again, like Knight, the "Trooper" continues as a playstyle in each of its branches.

 

The Consular though, changes radically. Either you become a long range no-melee class, or you become a double-bladed-saber-wielding stealth infiltrating short range-and-sneak class. As the protesting Sages protest "But I could use my saber just fine on Tython!"

 

The Balance tree (or Madness tree for Inquisitors) used to provide a partial solution here, but this was removed in Beta, owing to the perceived gameplay issues in having a long range caster class with effective melee combat.

 

Whether that's justified or not I'm not here to argue- but since Bioware have decided they *don't* want melee-effective Sages, this is about looking at *another* solution.

 

Hopefully my reasoning makes enough sense to explain that I see the problem as being that people at level 1 choose to play a Consular, because it fits the type of Jedi they want to play- and *why* they make that choice- but then the Consular doesn't really exist past level 10.

 

So... if we can't make the Sage back into a Consular, in the ways described above, what about the Shadow? Or, in other words, why do people who wanted to play a Consular, go Sage rather than Shadow?

 

In gameplay terms, the Shadow is actually mostly a *closer* descendant of the Consular, with the melee/ranged hybrid effect. Using the Shared Tree takes them very close indeed, with lots of Force powers enhanced- but, remember we're talking about "wanting to play a typical Jedi". Of all the Jedi classes, the Sage *looks* most like the typical Jedi- one, single lightsaber, cloth robes... but plays the *least* like them, and that, I think, is the route of the problem.

 

The Shadow plays most like a 'catch all' Jedi- with force tricks and powers, cool saber moves, and the whole stealth / mind maze "These aren't the droids you're looking for/don't look at me, look at that sound over there"... etc- but with the dual saber, looks completely atypical.

 

Now, the dual saber is very cool for a Shadow- but doesn't fit the "catch all" Consular people started wanting to play- and if you try to play a Shadow *without* it, you're self-nerfing yourself immediately, losing all your techniques, your Force Breach, your Shadow Strike, your Whirling Blow, and your Low Slash.

 

 

So, this is my suggestion. 1) Low Slash at least doesn't *need* to require the dual saber. Remove the requirement for that one. 2) In the Balance tree for Shadows, establish a small set of skills of equal- not greater- combat utility to the ones listed above, which require a *single* blade Lightsaber to use. Remove a bit of ability bloat and tidy up the tree so that it's still possible to play a double-ended saber Balance Shadow, but create an option down that path of playing the class in a way as close as possible to the 'original' Consular, both in gameplay and aesthetics.

 

Limitations- obviously, this is no use at all for already *existing* Sages who've just become fed up with the situation. I recognise that, however, since Bioware seem hostile both to advanced class respec as an option *and* to melee competence for Sages, this solution would at least allow for a "consular-alike" for future alts/characters and, provided the skills created were appropriate in power- they could easily recycle some Knight animations for them to avoid too much expense- shouldn't affect gameplay balance since they'd all be the same *type* of skill as the ones they were replacing in that talent tree.

 

Finally, I don't have a personal axe to grind here. I used to loathe the double-saber, when playing an ill-advised and badly played noob Assassin Tank, who felt like she had twice the saber blade, for about 1/4 the actual damage output of the next warrior... since then my gameplay improved *and* I discovered the Infiltration/Deception tree, which actually made the dual-saber feel very cool and fun. However, I can recognise the need for a more 'generalised' Jedi-style Consular, for those who want to play a more force-active Jedi without totally abandoning the "typical Jedi" feel, hence this suggestion.

 

 

If you want a summary, "Give Balance Shadows/Madness Assassins a couple of skill tree options to let them use single sabers effectively, in order to recreate the "typical Consular Jedi" that Sage isn't and was never meant to be, in order to reduce the number of Sages upset by their lack of meaningful sabre usage. For more insight into *why*, read more :)"

[Nempo]

Short answer? No.

 

Why? Game mechanics trump all. You CAN use a single saber right now and have access to your shadow/assassin skills, they did away with the restriction a long time ago. Yes, you will do far lower damage but that is due to the actual stats on the saberstaff compared to the single saber. Nothing more, nothing less. No, it should not be "fixed" as nothing is broken.

 

If you want to feel like the stereotypical Jedi/Sith...there are a plethora of games out there to allow it...this game must remain balanced properly around the mechanics. Besides...no one who expects a typical traditional feel to Jedi will ever pick Jedi Shadow even if you make this change...because anyone who knows the lore knows that the shadows a very very grey...knowingly doing some seriously shadey stuff (shadows commit actual assassinations after all, and kill unarmed opponents if said opponent was someone that honestly needed to be taken out for the greater good). Shadows also study the dark side, something that the Jedi Council rather publicly expects no Jedi to do outside of researching ways to counter corruption.

 

Also, in all honesty...anyone hoping to play a traditional Jedi will end up picking Jedi Knight as it even sounds in the description exactly what you would expect.

[Shipwright]

I'd be happy if sage/sorc got a resource-free ranged attack. I mean, PT/vanguard get one even though they are more melee based, and scoundrel/operative get a free ranged attacked while being melee based.

[Nempo]

I'd be happy if sage/sorc got a resource-free ranged attack. I mean, PT/vanguard get one even though they are more melee based, and scoundrel/operative get a free ranged attacked while being melee based.

 

They have one...both DPS builds have a basic ranged skill that gets tied to energy regeneration...thus it is the de-facto ranged skill you should be using a LOT. As for healers throwing attacks...if your healer has time to attack in group content...you aren't pulling fast enough or enough mobs.

[Shipwright]

They have one...both DPS builds have a basic ranged skill that gets tied to energy regeneration

 

Oh I know of those traits and like them and make huge use of them. I was quite happy to see them in the skill trees when I realized we have no actual free ranged attack!

 

But it is still not the same as having the free rifle shots on operative for example, which uses no resources at all. The 1% force return, and the traits for getting increased force regen briefly are very nice but still they are not free like the operative rifle shots, the bounty hunter rapid shots from pistols. That is what I mean.

 

The force regen traits remind me much more of the traits that help vent heat for the BH, for example.

 

In any case, yes, those traits are really indispensable though.

 

So I just wish that instead of the melee attack which is resource free...it was a weak ranged attack that was resource free. Some people have suggested even doing away with the sage/sorc light saber and replacing it with a main hand focus and having a free ranged attack. Kinda looses the iconic sith/jedi feel with no saber but I see what they are getting at

 

I find the sage and sorcerer very fun though, I really came to enjoy those ACs a lot!

[Whifi]

Why not remove the double-bladed requirements from Force Technique, Force Breach, maybe Whirling Blow and give our execute the animation of the Guardian's Sundering Strike.

 

That way, you can play a Balance Shadow with a single blade effectively as the other skills in the balance tree (FiB and Sever Force) have no saber limitations anyway.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Make a Guardian or a sentinel... enjoy your non stat stick.

 

If you make a Sentinel, enjoy your game on hard mode. (Dummy parsing means absolutely nothing)