WTB, with say Cartel coins, new skins so jedi arent junk & pebble throwers....

[casirabit]

The ideas are in the first post in the thread. You did read the first post in the thread, right? I focused this on appearance, and look and feel in relation to lore and other implementations of jedi.

 

Perhaps you can cite a game where jedi were default junk throwers? Or perhaps you can recall the movies and remember that junk throwing was done almost exclusively by sith, more than any other sith ability. If I seem condescending, it is because some people don't seem to recall the basics and I have to keep reminding people of them, which seems silly to me...and then some seem to think it all right to base a jedi class on skills that SCREAM SITH based on just about everything we have seen in 12 hrs or so of cinema. But that is fine, again, if you like the rocks, junk and pebbles, you get to keep them...to explain further:

 

If you read the proposal, you will see that I have taken pains to explain that people that like what they have ACTUALLY get to keep what they have...no change IN APPEARANCE for them, unless they want it, and are willing to pay for it, like many of us are...either way, there is never any change in function. So no, its not that I have said consulars are weak compared to inquisitors...their skills do the SAME thing, they just appear different. So I have said the animations make them APPEAR weaker and do little or nothing to create the jedi feel for the class that many people have obviously been disappointed in....jedi aren't some earth shaman rock conjuring WoW rejects that magically pull things up from the ground or create pebbles out of thin air. The only time in 6 movies that a JEDI threw a rock at something was Luke in RotJ when he threw a rock, WITH HIS HAND, at a door panel in the rancor pit. No force use.

 

 

A suggestion? When you make the comment Weaker you set people on edge. Maybe try to describe it another way. I know my Sage (dps) is not weak and so to hear that comment could put people on edge. I would be the first to jump down someone's throat if they dared called my Sage weak (lol) and that is what I am getting at.

 

Yes the animations need to be different with that I agree to. But I know I know you have suggested that before (probably 2 million times) but considering we do know they do listen (housing for example) maybe again make a suggestion and give them the ideas you have presented here not saying they would do it but that I think would be the best idea instead of just putting it in the cartel shop. Wouldn't you agree?

[Dyvim]

...

 

Yes the animations need to be different with that I agree to. But I know I know you have suggested that before (probably 2 million times) but considering we do know they do listen (housing for example) maybe again make a suggestion and give them the ideas you have presented here not saying they would do it but that I think would be the best idea instead of just putting it in the cartel shop. Wouldn't you agree?

 

Well semantics aside, we are pretty much in the same place. The reason I am proposing that the alternate animations be placed in the cartel shop (or they could tie them into some kind of legacy reward) is to provide the business rationale (more money for EAWare) to make it happen. I also have a thread in the cartel market suggestions forum that mirrors this one that has grown to over 10 pages with over 5000 views:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=718365

 

Additionally, the community agreed to include this topic in the most recent Sage set of questions to the developers, which are currently pending answers....it is in the third question:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=738701

 

so perhaps it will fall under the right eyes in enough places to spur some action..../cheers

Edited May 24, 2014 by Dyvim

[Halinalle]

Dyvim, I found this video on youtube that focuses on showing Ashara fighting (i think that's the only one that does so). Around 0:50 we see Ashara using the skill while closing with her target and it seems there's something looking like Disturbance's ball.

 

Ashara with only one lightsaber...

Now I understand why people whine about her dps output.

 

...

OP, do you already know what kind of load this would add to servers? Since this is MMO server performance is and should always be top priority.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Halinalle

[Dyvim]

Ashara with only one lightsaber...

Now I understand why people whine about her dps output.

 

...

OP, do you already know what kind of load this would add to servers? Since this is MMO server performance is and should always be top priority.

 

ikr, I saw that too...lol. There would be no additional load on the servers. All the animations are stored locally. Their display is handled by the client. It makes no difference to the server if you use Force lightning or Telekinetic Throw...they both do the same damage, are impacted by the same talents, etc. The client simply displays a different animation. If the devs allowed modding and had a more open architecture, I wouldn't be surprised if you could simply copy the force lightning ani, rename it, and replace the pebblestorm ani with it as an inelegant CLIENT-side mod. But of course the devs would frown on this and it is not permissible. I only mention it as an example of how trivial switiching out animation, when they are stored in separate files and called by the engine typically is...This is why I mentioned the mirror paradigm. It would also make no difference if you use a "cloned" version of pebblestorm, where it calls a different animation client side.

 

Again, use the reference of the cartel market ability "kick the huttball". This is how it would work. Buy the alternate animation in the cartel market. It shows up in your "p" abilities window as a slottable skill, with the EXACT SAME behavior and same timers as pebblestorm (or project, depending on what alternate you buy). You could even slot the alternate RIGHT NEXT to the original on your toolbar, and one time pebblestorm and the next use the alternate. It would be just like slotting two pebblestorms next to each other. Same cooldown, etc.

 

So to summarize, there is no technical problem with this, whatsoever. The animations are stored in separate files on the client, and are called by the engine. Adding new ones or mirroring existing ones should be nothing but trivial, after all its how they built the game in the first place, around mirroring classes and slapping different animations on the SAME skills...

Edited May 25, 2014 by Dyvim

[Halinalle]

ikr, I saw that too...lol. There would be no additional load on the servers. All the animations are stored locally. Their display is handled by the client. It makes no difference to the server if you use Force lightning or Telekinetic Throw...they both do the same damage, are impacted by the same talents, etc. The client simply displays a different animation.

 

If you have two Sages in your group:

Sage #1 uses Project's default animation

Sage #2 uses Project's alternate animation (Shock)

 

How would Sage #1's client know which animation to show when Sage #2 uses Project if server doesn't give that information?

[Altheran]

If you have two Sages in your group:

Sage #1 uses Project's default animation

Sage #2 uses Project's alternate animation (Shock)

 

How would Sage #1's client know which animation to show when Sage #2 uses Project if server doesn't give that information?

The information is given by Sage #2. The server relays.

 

But don't be mistaking. It already works like this (I think).

When a player use an ability, it calls the server for effects and display animation independently.

 

I suggest you to take a look at TORHead, and browse abilities, but make sure to look at "detailed effect".

It's in informatics language, the codes seem a bit less understandable and logic from when I looked at them some times ago... but still, you should be able to guess that calls for animations are here and separated from calls from damage, not hidden in an obscure "want Project" type of call.

Exemple of TorHead's detailing of Project :

Effect	Subeffect	Type		Text
1		1			action	CallEffect: ResultsOption_CombatMathOnly=>1, FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>3, Results=>[ 63,32,1 ], ResultsOption_MatchAll=>1
1		1			action	SpellDamage: SpellType=>Force, StandardHealthPercentMin=>0.165, Slot=>None, Coefficient=>1.85, StandardHealthPercentMax=>0.205, AmountModifierPercent=>0.01, DamageType=>Kinetic
1		1			action	PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.jedi_consular.project.instant
1		2			action	CallEffect: ResultsOption_CombatMathOnly=>1, FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>3, Results=>[ 63,32,1 ], ResultsOption_MatchAll=>1
1		2			action	SpellDamage: SpellType=>Force, StandardHealthPercentMin=>0.136, Slot=>None, Coefficient=>1.56, StandardHealthPercentMax=>0.176, AmountModifierPercent=>0.01, DamageType=>Kinetic
1		2			action	PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.jedi_consular.project.instant
1		3			action	CallEffect: FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>2
1		4			action	CallEffect: FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>2
1		5			action	CallEffect: FromActor=>Caster, EffectNumber=>2
2		0			init		SetDuration: MaxDuration=>500, Duration=>500, Toughness=>3
2		0			init		SetHidden: IsHidden=>1
2		1			action	SpellDamage: SpellType=>Force, StandardHealthPercentMin=>0.073, Slot=>None, Coefficient=>0.925, StandardHealthPercentMax=>0.113, AmountModifierPercent=>0.01, DamageType=>Kinetic
2		1			action	PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.jedi_consular.project.instant_double
2		2			action	SpellDamage: SpellType=>Force, StandardHealthPercentMin=>0.058, Slot=>None, Coefficient=>0.78, StandardHealthPercentMax=>0.098, AmountModifierPercent=>0.01, DamageType=>Kinetic
2		2			action	PlayAppearance: AppearanceSpec=>epp.jedi_consular.project.instant_double
3		0			init		SetDescription: Description=>""
3		0			init		SetDuration: MaxDuration=>3000, Duration=>3000, Toughness=>1
3		0			init		SetStackLimit: MaxStackCount=>1, IsPerCaster=>1
3		0			init		SetName: Name=>""
3		0			init		SetIcon: IconSpec=>stunned
3		1			action	Stun
3		1			action	PlayAppearance: DependentOnCallingEffect=>1, AppearanceSpec=>epp.jedi_consular.project.stun

 

Note that it's only an assumption from me, but my logic says that if the client contains so detailed calls, it means it's not decided on the server side...

 

A bit more on subject : what is asked for here, would be something that alters the "value" in the animation call.

And if I'm right, the server load would not change since it is already used as a relay for animation information.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Altheran

[Dyvim]

Exactly right Altheran....the only changes would be in the values passed, which would then trigger different animations to play on the client....no actual increase in data volume would be required...

[Dyvim]

If you have two Sages in your group:

Sage #1 uses Project's default animation

Sage #2 uses Project's alternate animation (Shock)

 

How would Sage #1's client know which animation to show when Sage #2 uses Project if server doesn't give that information?

 

Again use the throw the huttball versus kick the huttball analogy. They are essentially clones of the same skill, with the same attributes, that simply call another animation on the client. You could just as easily compare a sorcerer using lightning and a sage using tk throw...same thing....abilities with identical attributes that call different animations. Game is full of examples....again think about the mirrored class paradigm they built the game on.

 

So the same number of parameters will be passed, we are just introducing a few new values, as we will be adding some more cloned skills to the list, and these cloned skills will call different animations on the client.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Dyvim

[Halinalle]

The information is given by Sage #2. The server relays.

 

AFAIK this game doesn't use P2P.

[Altheran]

AFAIK this game doesn't use P2P.

 

As far as I know, it does not mean it's using P2P protocols, and frankly, I doubt it does.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Altheran

[Master-Nala]

As far as offering alternate animations and visual effects via the Cartel Market is concerned, only time will tell. Your message has been passed onto the team responsible for Cartel Market updates, and if it is possible, then you might see those options appear in the future.

 

A firm maybe. Some day. If we can get it working. That's better than a no right?

[Dyvim]

A firm maybe. Some day. If we can get it working. That's better than a no right?

 

Thanks Nala...lol. Yeah, that is probably about as positive and optimistic a response as we could possibly get...for what its worth.

[Master-Nala]

Thanks Nala...lol. Yeah, that is probably about as positive and optimistic a response as we could possibly get...for what its worth.

 

I was hoping they would be a bit more definitive. But I have to say, I'm pleasantly surprised it wasn't a firm no. I had heard that they told someone that at a Cantina event this wasn't happening.

 

EDIT: Oh and by the way, I am completely done arguing against this. If it wasn't abundantly clear, I was playing devil's advocate to keep the thread alive. Now that it's on the devs radar we will see it or not.

 

Just please God, no electric judgment, the other options are more than fine.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Master-Nala

[Ashanor]

This was one of my main complaints about Sage when the game first came out. We asked Bioware to change them and even had a thread similar to this (minus the cartel coin part of course - since it didn't exist at the time). I will try checking my post history tomorrow. In any case, I would easily pay cartel coins for the new animations. I like the ones you picked out and they are more in line with what I felt sage should have had from the start.

 

I just realized the thread is so similar to what I remember back at release because the poster is the same. lol

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=29235

 

Here is my post from the thread;

 

01.14.2012 , 03:05 AM | #191

Agreed. Project and Throw are HORRIBLE animations. They are the absolute worst thing about the Sage and even to a lesser extent the Shadow. I think these animations are actually part of the reason there are less sages on a percentage basis than there are sorcerers. It's not like you can stop using them eventually either. Shadow is stuck with project forever (especially infiltration spec) and Sage is stuck using both for the most part.

 

Please change them. Make them look cool. Throwing debris and tossing pebbles is NOT cool. My suggestion for project is the same as the OP suggestion. A quick force push like animation with a small burst of light on the person being attacked. My suggestion for throw is a wave of force swirling through the air (think a solar flare of force energy). I think these would fit the class better than the current animations. Make it so Bioware!

Edited June 2, 2014 by Ashanor

[RaithHarth]

I think Telekinetic Throw needs to be changed without a doubt but Project should remain as it is.

 

Telekinetic Throw should be replaced with Force deflection basically absorbing the attackers energy and withdrawing to whoever is around you.

 

Since Sages rarely use their lightsabers they would use their hands to absorb the incoming attacks (like Yoda did against Dooku and Palpatine @

), however Shadows would use their lightsabers to absorb and push back the energy at their opponents (remember what Mace Windu did to Palpatine in episode III @2:28).

 

The way it would work in SWTOR is that when you absorb enough energy from their attacks, you can burst out a shock wave of charged up energy to whoever is near you, inflicting damage upon them.

Edited June 4, 2014 by RaithHarth

[Dyvim]

I think Telekinetic Throw needs to be changed without a doubt but Project should remain as it is.

 

Telekinetic Throw should be replaced with Force deflection basically absorbing the attackers energy and withdrawing to whoever is around you.

 

Since Sages rarely use their lightsabers they would use their hands to absorb the incoming attacks (like Yoda did against Dooku and Palpatine @

), however Shadows would use their lightsabers to absorb and push back the energy at their opponents (remember what Mace Windu did to Palpatine in episode III @2:28).

 

The way it would work in SWTOR is that when you absorb enough energy from their attacks, you can burst out a shock wave of charged up energy to whoever is near you, inflicting damage upon them.

 

You cant make a primary skill, like throw, dependent on whether your enemies are attacking you are not. That puts YOUR dps in the hands of your opponents.

 

Remember these classes are mirrored. Throw is Lightning with a different animation. Also, think of all the talents that would have to be changed. Don't get me wrong, I think jedi SHOULD have been designed in this game to be more "use the attackers energy against him" in style, but that ship sailed long long ago when they decided to mirror the classes, when they made inquisitors first, and basically reskinned them to produce the consulars...

 

So that leaves us with AT LEAST not looking like sith in junk throwing or something worse...Appearance is the best we can hope for...also, some people like pebblestorm....just like you think project should stay, whereas I think yanking up rocks magically out of the ground is the stupidest thing they could do for a jedi skill, especially when there are NO ROCKS underneath you, like in a building or in a ship.

 

That is why, at the end of the day, optional, purchaseable cartel market reskin animations are the only way I see we can go. People who like what they have get to keep it. No skills or talents have to change. People that want something else get to put their cartel coins where their mouth is and buy it. Everyone wins.

[RaithHarth]

You cant make a primary skill, like throw, dependent on whether your enemies are attacking you are not. That puts YOUR dps in the hands of your opponents.

 

Remember these classes are mirrored. Throw is Lightning with a different animation. Also, think of all the talents that would have to be changed. Don't get me wrong, I think jedi SHOULD have been designed in this game to be more "use the attackers energy against him" in style, but that ship sailed long long ago when they decided to mirror the classes, when they made inquisitors first, and basically reskinned them to produce the consulars...

 

So that leaves us with AT LEAST not looking like sith in junk throwing or something worse...Appearance is the best we can hope for...also, some people like pebblestorm....just like you think project should stay, whereas I think yanking up rocks magically out of the ground is the stupidest thing they could do for a jedi skill, especially when there are NO ROCKS underneath you, like in a building or in a ship.

 

That is why, at the end of the day, optional, purchaseable cartel market reskin animations are the only way I see we can go. People who like what they have get to keep it. No skills or talents have to change. People that want something else get to put their cartel coins where their mouth is and buy it. Everyone wins.

 

Sorry but Force Deflection is an actual core ability used by consulars, Yoda used it (as seen above) and so did Satele Shan @

(perhaps Satele's version would make a better replacement for the Jedi Shadows than Mace's since after all he would be counted as a knight)

 

Using a new skin model to overlap an ability that already exists all because you don't like how it looks instead of replacing it entirely is just taking the easy way out, when there are better options out there.

Edited June 4, 2014 by RaithHarth

[Dyvim]

Sorry but Force Deflection is an actual core ability used by consulars, Yoda used it (as seen above) and so did Satele Shan @

(perhaps Satele's version would make a better replacement for the Jedi Shadows than Mace's since after all he would be counted as a knight)

 

Using a new skin model to overlap an ability that already exists all because you don't like how it looks instead of replacing it entirely is just taking the easy way out, when there are better options out there.

 

In a way you are preaching to the choir, but do you REALLY think that the devs are going to change basic skills and change the 10 or so talents that impact Throw, AND break their mirror paradigm all at the same time? Inquisitor = Consular, PERIOD. It is NOT the way I would have gone, but they did, and there is no indication they have the will or the resources to break with their FUNDAMENTAL design decisions now. If you think so, you are delusional. That is simply NOT going to happen with this game at this point in its life cycle.

 

Did you read the dev response to our sage as jedi question?

In terms of lore, the particular attributes that make someone a “Jedi Sage” or a “Sith Sorcerer” vary over the vast timeline of the Star Wars galaxy. And while Yoda and Palpatine were definitely inspirations for these classes, they are never identified by those terms in the films, and it wasn’t our intention to make direct gameplay clones of those characters in any case.

 

This is the devs saying they don't care what yoda or sidious did...or what we saw in the ultimate lore of the movies. They DONT CARE. They DONT CARE that they made jedi force users into cheap sith clones that chunk junk like a WoW earth shaman reject. SO you think they are going to, now, admit they were wrong, and start making HUGE changes? No. Obviously jedi approach combat completely differently....they have a mentality close to something like Aikido, or other soft style martial arts, where the opponents aggression is used against him. This is crystal clear. Bioware threw this out the window when they decided to make jedi nothing more than reskinned sith. Sith, in contrast, are direct, aggressive - like a hard style martial art, say tae kwon do or karate, etc. Their fighting styles are worlds apart, yet are functionally identical in this game. IT IS A HUGE BLUNDER, and I personally feel it is a slap in the face to the IP and to fans. I would love to see that changed, but it is about 4 years too late.

 

In addition, this dev staff cant even balance the existing MIRRORED classes...you think they can redesign a class or some of its primary skills, break the mirror paradigm, and then somehow balance out the changes...I can think of few things more unlikely...maybe hell freezing over....

 

Then, lets not forget, there are players that LIKE what they have NOW. No matter how ridiculous or how obvious it is that jedi are reskinned sith in this game. I find it incredibly offensive, but it is what it is. So, LIKE I SAID, the best option we can hope for, and the devs WONT EVEN COMMIT TO THIS, is an option where we can get optional reskins that we pay cartel coins for, so EAWare can justify the dev time outlay, which should be minimal, with immediate new income. This allows people who like the junk to keep it and EAWare to make money off of the people willing to pay for something that is less ridiculous.

 

It isn't perfect, but if you REALLY think that we could rationally, logically expect more from them, I would LOVE to hear that logic given the developer realities we are faced with...

Edited June 5, 2014 by Dyvim

[RaithHarth]

In a way you are preaching to the choir, but do you REALLY think that the devs are going to change basic skills and change the 10 or so talents that impact Throw, AND break their mirror paradigm all at the same time? Inquisitor = Consular, PERIOD. It is NOT the way I would have gone, but they did, and there is no indication they have the will or the resources to break with their FUNDAMENTAL design decisions now. If you think so, you are delusional. That is simply NOT going to happen with this game at this point in its life cycle.

 

Did you read the dev response to our sage as jedi question?

In terms of lore, the particular attributes that make someone a “Jedi Sage” or a “Sith Sorcerer” vary over the vast timeline of the Star Wars galaxy. And while Yoda and Palpatine were definitely inspirations for these classes, they are never identified by those terms in the films, and it wasn’t our intention to make direct gameplay clones of those characters in any case.

 

This is the devs saying they don't care what yoda or sidious did...or what we saw in the ultimate lore of the movies. They DONT CARE. They DONT CARE that they made jedi force users into cheap sith clones that chunk junk like a WoW earth shaman reject. SO you think they are going to, now, admit they were wrong, and start making HUGE changes? No. Obviously jedi approach combat completely differently....they have a mentality close to something like Aikido, or other soft style martial arts, where the opponents aggression is used against him. This is crystal clear. Bioware threw this out the window when they decided to make jedi nothing more than reskinned sith. Sith, in contrast, are direct, aggressive - like a hard style martial art, say tae kwon do or karate, etc. Their fighting styles are worlds apart, yet are functionally identical in this game. IT IS A HUGE BLUNDER, and I personally feel it is a slap in the face to the IP and to fans. I would love to see that changed, but it is about 4 years too late.

 

In addition, this dev staff cant even balance the existing MIRRORED classes...you think they can redesign a class or some of its primary skills, break the mirror paradigm, and then somehow balance out the changes...I can think of few things more unlikely...maybe hell freezing over....

 

Then, lets not forget, there are players that LIKE what they have NOW. No matter how ridiculous or how obvious it is that jedi are reskinned sith in this game. I find it incredibly offensive, but it is what it is. So, LIKE I SAID, the best option we can hope for, and the devs WONT EVEN COMMIT TO THIS, is an option where we can get optional reskins that we pay cartel coins for, so EAWare can justify the dev time outlay, which should be minimal, with immediate new income. This allows people who like the junk to keep it and EAWare to make money off of the people willing to pay for something that is less ridiculous.

 

It isn't perfect, but if you REALLY think that we could rationally, logically expect more from them, I would LOVE to hear that logic given the developer realities we are faced with...

 

The dev's may not care about what Yoda or Sidious did, but what about Satele Shan? You cannot ignore the fact she was able to deflect a lightsaber with her bare hands in the Hope trailer which is also another form of force deflection. When the swtor trailers came out (Hope, Return, Deceived) it was pointed out that the moves that were displayed in those trailers were abilities that will be used in-game? So where is Force Deflection? It should be there, but it's not.

[Dyvim]

The dev's may not care about what Yoda or Sidious did, but what about Satele Shan? You cannot ignore the fact she was able to deflect a lightsaber with her bare hands in the Hope trailer which is also another form of force deflection. When the swtor trailers came out (Hope, Return, Deceived) it was pointed out that the moves that were displayed in those trailers were abilities that will be used in-game? So where is Force Deflection? It should be there, but it's not.

 

lol, Satele also wields a double bladed saber, which indicates Shadow, yet she has powers in Hope that very much look like disturbance and turbulence....whereas shadows don't even have access to the telekinetics tree.

 

In the Return trailer, her master wielded her double bladed saber as well as his one saber at the same time...who can do that in game? As far as that goes so did malgus, he just didn't ignite the second blade after he took his masters saber away from him...there are several other examples of where the games trailers break with the actual gameplay in the game....

 

So again, please explain to me how, at this point in the life of the game, you think the devs are going to retool, completely, basic abilities, along with the talents that impact them, and break their existing mirror models in doing so....please explain that to me. It is not going to happen. We cant even get them to commit to a MUCH simpler idea to simply provide alternate animations....

[RaithHarth]

lol, Satele also wields a double bladed saber, which indicates Shadow, yet she has powers in Hope that very much look like disturbance and turbulence....whereas shadows don't even have access to the telekinetics tree.

 

In the Return trailer, her master wielded her double bladed saber as well as his one saber at the same time...who can do that in game? As far as that goes so did malgus, he just didn't ignite the second blade after he took his masters saber away from him...there are several other examples of where the games trailers break with the actual gameplay in the game....

 

So again, please explain to me how, at this point in the life of the game, you think the devs are going to retool, completely, basic abilities, along with the talents that impact them, and break their existing mirror models in doing so....please explain that to me. It is not going to happen. We cant even get them to commit to a MUCH simpler idea to simply provide alternate animations....

 

Except Satele's master in the Return trailer is just a concept of the Jedi Sentinel's perspective, since he was most likely a Jedi Knight yet him holding two lightsabers was just an indicator between two AC's (Guardian and Sentinel) when he made the switch between the two, samething with Darth Malgus (Juggernaut and Marauder).

 

Each class has a shared tree do they not? It's all connected, so Satele blocking a lightsaber with her bare hands (Force Deflection or Tutaminis)should be an ability used by Jedi Sage's since they don't rely much on their lightsabers). I'm not saying the dev's are going to retool an ability, but if you think they are going to reskin it then you are really living in a dream world.

 

At least my idea could be an ability unlock for Sage's when they increase the level cap to 60, it's a possibility.

Edited June 7, 2014 by RaithHarth

[Dyvim]

Except Satele's master in the Return trailer is just a concept of the Jedi Sentinel's perspective, since he was most likely a Jedi Knight yet him holding two lightsabers was just an indicator between two AC's (Guardian and Sentinel) when he made the switch between the two, samething with Darth Malgus (Juggernaut and Marauder).

 

Each class has a shared tree do they not? It's all connected, so Satele blocking a lightsaber with her bare hands (Force Deflection or Tutaminis)should be an ability used by Jedi Sage's since they don't rely much on their lightsabers). I'm not saying the dev's are going to retool an ability, but if you think they are going to reskin it then you are really living in a dream world.

 

At least my idea could be an ability unlock for Sage's when they increase the level cap to 60, it's a possibility.

 

Nice try, except he also threw pieces of junk at Malgus, which isn't guardian or sent in this game, or jedi in any other game. Also, it isn't just two sabers, its a single plus a double...sentinels aren't doing that in game. For that matter, no one get the option of igniting only one blade on a double in game either....which I feel is a huge oversight, considering Maul does it and it makes the weapon more versatile. Another missed opportunity.

 

As far as Satele blocking that saber, the devs could say that is what force bubble is for....again something a shadow doesn't have access to, but it does absorb damage, and could be claimed as the power she is using there, or a version of it. Bit of a stretch, but compared to so many of the other "stretches" in the game, its not that far to go.

 

Also, now you are changing your tune...you said you wanted a THROW REPLACEMENT, with a fundamentally different ability that would require you to absorb damage (a potential nightmare in pvp) before you could send out damage. This would require massive retooling and rework of 10+ talents that currently impact throw. Now you say it could be a brand new ability, in addition to pebblestorm, I guess, unlocked at 60? lol ...Yeah ok, but inquisitors will have to get the same thing...

 

Now, perhaps, just maybe, you see why reskinned animations are a more plausible approach...if we can even get that out of therm.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Yesterday I was writing an lengthy reply ... Whiuch was completely erased by me accidentally pressing a key that did let the browser "go back" ... And I was angry. At both the internet browser and at me as well. ("Yes ! Let the hate flow through you !")

 

So I didn't try it a second time ... But now I do :

 

1. I have the impression as if your discussion runs in circles. You never reach an end, but you also endlessly circle one another.

 

2. I have a problem with the devs saying that they didn't take Palpatine or Yoda as a model - but yet they use the exact way Palpatine attacks Luke as the model for the Sorceror's animation ... Meanwhile the Sage still holds his stat stick in one hand during the whole "pebbles throwing" animation, even also he does NOTHING with his stat stick, and the DEVS say that he isn't even INTENDED to do so !

 

3. In principle, I have nothing against the Sage throwing rocks. Rocks are part of Mother Earth, to use an clichéd example from the Fantasy genre, so rocks themselves belong to the Living Force. Yoda lifts them - but he can lift anything at will, anyway ... - BUT he explicitely uses rocks for his training ... But that's probably because of the lack of junk on his planet, too.

 

Sith, however, as far as I perceive them, throw junk.

Junk is dead, wasted materials, materials of which their "life-span" of use has ended.

So, to me, throwing junk is part of a "Dead Force", which the Sith seem to use, or a "D®ead" Force", if you foregive the pun.

 

The Sith handle much more with dead things and with death in general than Jedi do - and Jedi, on the other hand, work much, much m,ore with the "Living Force" - which encompasses everything living.

 

Okay, rocks are somewhat dead, too - but they are part of the "living world". And I mean rocks from "naturally grown" rocks, mountains, hills ... Not rocks from ruins. Ruins are dead.

 

4. However, the devs believed that casting lightning looks so much cooler than throwing junk. To me, that's just / yet another sign of their faction favouritism.

 

Now, what to give the mirror class : Throwing tiny little rocks, to make him look uncool, and make him look weaker (which he clearly isn't from a damage mechanics point of view).

 

So, my personally far, far, far biggest problem is, that the Sage was explicitrely made to look SO much weaker.

 

If the Bioware team puts a new "junk throwing" animation as an replacement for that lightning animation into the Cartel Market, do you believe people would buy it ?

 

I heavily doubt it. And THAT is to me serious proof that the devs have a severe faction favouritism problem.

 

And on the other hand, an animation replacement for the "pebbles storm" imho WOULD find its buyers ... There are just TOO MANy people wanting an replacement for it because it looks dull ...

 

And on the other hand, Sorc players must likely wouldn't want to give up an animation that looks SO MUCH cooler ...

Edited June 8, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[Altheran]

Originally, I was not against rocks either. Dyvim probably remembers it, I was against a drastic change.

 

I was slightly bothered by the aggressive nature of throwing stuff at people, but the old animation, with the Jedi pausing after the lift made it acceptable to me. I thought it made the throw somewhat elegant and controlled. Telekinetic Throw has always been looking weak though.

 

What convinced me was the new Project. It reminded me more of Maul opening that door on Naboo than anything else.

[Dyvim]

Yesterday I was writing an lengthy reply ... Whiuch was completely erased by me accidentally pressing a key that did let the browser "go back" ... And I was angry...

 

...

 

ikr, that is a massive annoyance when it happens...lol.

 

We know they did inquisitors first, because they were still trying to finish up the consular animations in beta. What you mention is what has always been bothersome, fundamentally, to me as well. They did the sith side first, then they reskinned it and made "jedi" clones, pun intended. They were clearly out of time and inspiration, tbh. It is no mistake that the consular animations are among the weakest looking and the most ridiculous in the game. They were phoned in as the release clock was ticking down...and they were done so in a way that broke faith with the IP. Jedi are NOT junk tossers. They do not throw things at people as their fundamental, signature skills...it just IS NOT THE CASE.

 

So to ask the devs to provide alternate animations now, as an alternative to their feeble attempts as they ran out of time at release...where players are willing to PAY for them...is pretty damn reasonable.

 

Also, I agree completely...if you look at the number of inquisitors that would trade lightning for junk, versus the number of consulars that would trade junk for something that isn't junk, I think you would see I pretty big difference, percentage-wise.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Dyvim