JPryde Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I'm not saying you can't use AOE attacks, by all means go ahead but if you do so willingly inside an area you know is littered with people who can flag you in an instant than that's all on you. As I wrote before, I do not challenge the fact, that anyone who uses AOE at all is risking to get flagged. I do however challenge, that this should be the unchangeable truth for all eternity. What exactly would those PvPers loose, if AOE attacks (and heals) would no longer lead to an auto-flagging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Perhaps if you had a character higher than level 30, you be able to fight the stronger mobs to start with, the ones that can't be beat by sneezing on them. Cause you know, you're basically fighting all the lowest-tier-in-the-game Rakghouls, silver mobs occasionally. Try and fight Tunnel Lurker solo/in a pair without your "full potential" and see how far that gets you. Cause sure, gimp yourself by not using AOE's cause you might get flagged! Engineer Gunslinger's top Skill Tree ability is AOE, better not use it. Every mob I fight for the quests are easily beaten even the 1 Silver and 1 Elite that occasionally spawns. There is no point for me to be fighting the Tunnel Lurker on my lowbie toons. You keep bringing up Engineer GS like it's the only spec to play for a GS. I run my Sniper as marks, maybe you should try the GS equivalent and not worry anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 You keep bringing up Engineer GS like it's the only spec to play for a GS. I run my Sniper as marks, maybe you should try the GS equivalent and not worry anymore. Why is it so important to you, that a player is limited in their PvE ability in order to avoid PvP ? What would you personally loose, if the AOE skills would not cause a PvP flag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 As I wrote before, I do not challenge the fact, that anyone who uses AOE at all is risking to get flagged. I do however challenge, that this should be the unchangeable truth for all eternity. What exactly would those PvPers loose, if AOE attacks (and heals) would no longer lead to an auto-flagging? Idk, I don't participate in World-PvP. I am merely tired of seeing people refusing to adapt and over come when it's really their own for not being smart. But if 2 lowbie toons can do their dailies without getting flagged, no reason why others can't adapt and do the same. Bioware doesn't need to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Why is it so important to you, that a player is limited in their PvE ability in order to avoid PvP ? What would you personally loose, if the AOE skills would not cause a PvP flag? Because I'm trying to help people avoid getting flagged by informing them on what not to do. I wouldn't lose anything if aoe stuff didn't flag you but this is how it's been in so many other MMO's why does it need to be any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) OP, you do realize that not every class has Stealth Scan? Also seeing through walls (in those tunnels would be nice) falls into category "cheat" and will get you banned in most online games. As far as I know Troopers have Stealth Scan and I believe the other class is its mirror: bounty hunter. Edited January 24, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Bioware doesn't need to do anything. Right, Bioware doesn't need to. But maybe they should. And it is absolutely valid for PvE players to ask them to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transairion Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Every mob I fight for the quests are easily beaten even the 1 Silver and 1 Elite that occasionally spawns. There is no point for me to be fighting the Tunnel Lurker on my lowbie toons. You keep bringing up Engineer GS like it's the only spec to play for a GS. I run my Sniper as marks, maybe you should try the GS equivalent and not worry anymore. Well here's the thing.... you're fighting some of the weakest mobs as a single-target DPS spec. There is literally no reason for you to ever AOE except for ****s and giggles because your spec is focused around single-target damage. Engineer, for both GS and Sniper, is focused around AOE and DOT damage. So you telling someone who has that spec to "not AOE" is like telling your sniper not to use their sniper rifle and just spam the melee-range abilities. It's just dumb and makes the spec seem pointless. Curiously, in chat today I've heard that the AOE flag exploit doesn't work anymore and it only works now due to COMPANION (not player) AOE's hitting flagged players. Honestly that is easy to fix if truth, because AOE abilties aren't a good chunk of a companions damage. Players specced into AOE, however, kinda need to AOE. I'd like to believe it's fixed by all the topics is evidence to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 OP, you do realize that not every class has Stealth Scan? Also seeing through walls (in those tunnels would be nice) falls into category "cheat" and will get you banned in most online games. When did I bring up Stealth Scans, or seeing thru walls for that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transairion Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 But if 2 lowbie toons can do their dailies without getting flagged, no reason why others can't adapt and do the same. Bioware doesn't need to do anything. Again, 2 lowbie toons IN SINGLE TARGET DPS SPECS. You're never going to get flagged in these specs cause you're not ever going to be using AOE's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) When did I bring up Stealth Scans, or seeing thru walls for that matter? You were mentioning to "pay attention to your surroundings", which is totally worthless, if a stealthed enemy is standing 10m away from you and you cannot detect them. How are you paying attention to something you cannot see? In essence you are saying "do not use AOE outside of instances cause if you do and get flagged by an enemy, that was 100% invisible to you, it is your own fault". Edited January 24, 2014 by JPryde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Well here's the thing.... you're fighting some of the weakest mobs as a single-target DPS spec. There is literally no reason for you to ever AOE except for ****s and giggles because your spec is focused around single-target damage. Engineer, for both GS and Sniper, is focused around AOE and DOT damage. So you telling someone who has that spec to "not AOE" is like telling your sniper not to use their sniper rifle and just spam the melee-range abilities. It's just dumb and makes the spec seem pointless. Curiously, in chat today I've heard that the AOE flag exploit doesn't work anymore and it only works now due to COMPANION (not player) AOE's hitting flagged players. Honestly that is easy to fix if truth, because AOE abilties aren't a good chunk of a companions damage. Players specced into AOE, however, kinda need to AOE. I'd like to believe it's fixed by all the topics is evidence to the contrary. 1.) I already suggested this in the post you quoted but I'll repeat it since you ignored it. Why not try out the Marksmanship equivalent tree of the Gunslinger talent tree it's single target and will easily get the job done without having to use any AOE. If you wish to stick with Engineering then that's something you'll have to over come all on your own. 2.) If it's companion related it's an easy fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) When did I bring up Stealth Scans, or seeing thru walls for that matter? There's two ways to get you flagged by using sneaky tactics: - wait behind the corner and when you see that aoe target on ground run - use stealth and stay out of stealth detection range (you can't detect stealth'd chars at 25-30m without Stealth Scan) And no, I don't run into AoEs to get people flagged. It's just stupid way to do any pvp. Edited January 24, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Again, 2 lowbie toons IN SINGLE TARGET DPS SPECS. You're never going to get flagged in these specs cause you're not ever going to be using AOE's! Again, the mobs in these caves die so quickly and easily to single target attacks that you don't need to aoe at all. You don't have to play the AOE spec if AOE is the issue here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 You were mentioning to "pay attention to your surroundings", which is totally worthless, if a stealthed enemy is standing 10m away from you and you cannot detect them. How are you paying attention to something you cannot see? In essence you are saying "do not use AOE outside of instances cause if you do and get flagged by an enemy, that was 100% invisible to you, it is your own fault". Pay Attention by not AOEing, if you're so scared of stealthies. If you AOE without thinking then it really is your fault. But again you don't need to use AOE here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comdriver Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Again, 2 lowbie toons IN SINGLE TARGET DPS SPECS. You're never going to get flagged in these specs cause you're not ever going to be using AOE's!can you please tell us which classes do you lay and post their specs? we're all kinda going to play the same as you, since it looks only way to fix our problem Edited January 24, 2014 by Comdriver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Again, if you knowingly use an AOE when there are risks involved that it's the user's fault. In other words, don't use AOE attacks once you level past the capitol planets... got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transairion Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 1.) I already suggested this in the post you quoted but I'll repeat it since you ignored it. Why not try out the Marksmanship equivalent tree of the Gunslinger talent tree it's single target and will easily get the job done without having to use any AOE. If you wish to stick with Engineering then that's something you'll have to over come all on your own. Now you're just making yourself look foolish so I'll say it very clearly. No-one should be forced to change spec's just to participate in an event, and no-one in their right mind would! Here's the thing, again. You're telling us to stop moaning about getting PvP flagged while using AOE, while you yourself are playing completely AOE-free specs and aren't even fighter higher mobs. This is basically the same as me dictating high level PvP when, at present, I don't even PvP AT ALL. This isn't, and will never be an issue for you since you're not even playing something that'll be affected by it. How about YOU respec into Engineering, try and do everything with AOE's then come back and tell us it's all our fault? Because you clearly don't have a clue and just think we're all braindead dropping huge AOE abilities on top of 12 flagged players then whining when we get flagged for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halinalle Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Pay Attention by not AOEing, if you're so scared of stealthies. If you AOE without thinking then it really is your fault. But again you don't need to use AOE here. Could you PM me effective rotations for Madness Sorc and Balance Shadow that doesn't include any AOEs, please. Edited January 24, 2014 by Halinalle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 can you please tell us which classes do you lay and post their specs? we're all kinda going to play the same as you, since it looks only way to fix our problem Gladly. Anni Marauder Arsenal Merc Marksman Sniper Lightning Sorc Tank Guardian Tank VG Scrappy Scoundrel Tank Shadow Those are my 8 55's on JC On the harbinger the only characters I have high enough to do these dailies are Tank Guardian Marks Sniper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 Now you're just making yourself look foolish so I'll say it very clearly. No-one should be forced to change spec's just to participate in an event, and no-one in their right mind would! Here's the thing, again. You're telling us to stop moaning about getting PvP flagged while using AOE, while you yourself are playing completely AOE-free specs and aren't even fighter higher mobs. This is basically the same as me dictating high level PvP when, at present, I don't even PvP AT ALL. This isn't, and will never be an issue for you since you're not even playing something that'll be affected by it. How about YOU respec into Engineering, try and do everything with AOE's then come back and tell us it's all our fault? Because you clearly don't have a clue and just think we're all braindead dropping huge AOE abilities on top of 12 flagged players then whining when we get flagged for it. A good player is one who is willing to adapt and change their game to overcome adversity. Stop trying to blame others because you're willingly hindering yourself. Since you're posting on the forums, this means you must be a Sub and Subs can re-spec for free. A Good player knows how to play all specs easily. So why is it such a problem to simply re-spec before going to do these dailies and the speccing back when you get done? Also just because I'm playing a single target spec, doesn't mean I never use AOE's cause I do, I'm just smart when I use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancaglon Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Gladly. Anni Marauder Arsenal Merc Marksman Sniper Lightning Sorc Tank Guardian Tank VG Scrappy Scoundrel Tank Shadow Those are my 8 55's on JC On the harbinger the only characters I have high enough to do these dailies are Tank Guardian Marks Sniper Most of those classes/specs have AE moves as part of the basic rotation. If you're really saying you never use Smash, Chain Ligtning, or ANY of the Tank rotations, because they have AE effects that might cause flagging, you're massively gimping yourself, probably to the point of failure. (Oh, and try doing the H4 "silver packs" without AE, you will probably be dead long before you've finished killing them one-by-one with single target moves). That is stupid play, not "smart play". And, your earlier assertion that most other MMOs work that way is also wrong -- most actively require you to flag yourself before you can either attack a flagged enemy player, OR heal a flagged friendly player. This could be easily done via a UI toggle. Edited January 24, 2014 by Ancaglon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 In other words, don't use AOE attacks once you level past the capitol planets... got it. Lol if you want. Use some logic though please. Where is it going to be safer to use AOE's? A leveling planet where people are likely to just be questing thru as fast as they can or a cave like area with a bunch of grouped up players? If I' going into a cave knowing I will run into members of the opposite faction, I'm going to want to avoid AOE. If i'm on a planet that's pretty segrated from the opposite faction I'll aoe to my heart's content. Play Smart and Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Most of those classes/specs have AE moves as part of the basic rotation. If you're really saying you never use Smash, Chain Ligtning, or ANY of the Tank rotations, because they have AE effects that might cause flagging, you're massively gimping yourself, probably to the point of failure. (Oh, and try doing the H4 "silver packs" without AE, you will probably be dead long before you've finished killing them one-by-one with single target moves). The H4 is of no concern to me since I was only doing those dailies on my two lowbies on a different server, where I know no one and have no guild. It's impossible to find a Heroic group for someone my level. Since you added the flagged portion. I am not wrong. Because if your attacks are hitting a flagged player any which way you will get flagged. This is the same for most MMO's. You do not need to flag yourself first to do it. Edited January 24, 2014 by Reno_Tarshil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPryde Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) A good player is one who is willing to adapt and change their game to overcome adversity. Stop trying to blame others because you're willingly hindering yourself. A good game however, will adapt and change so that the players, who are trying to avoid PvP are not accidently subject to PvP. Noone is blaming others but you.. you start your thread with "It's your fault..." so you are the one to put the blame on someone... and you are asking players to hinder themselves by asking them to not use part of their skills so they are required to be less effective than possible just to be safe from abuse. I do not need to blame anyone to make a reasonable request for change. Edited January 24, 2014 by JPryde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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