Whose stupid idea was it....

[CosmicKat]

So the actions of one or two PvPers justify blaming all of us "dumbulbs". Yeah. Makes total sense.

....

 

No. Not at all. The people who should be the most pissed off about griefers should be the hardcore PvPers. Griefers are the reason EQ had no PvP at launch. They are the reason why there are PvP flags, and PvE servers. Griefers destroy "legitimate" PvP. Always have and always will.

[Alec_Fortescue]

I don't get it lore wise. Both republic and empire are fighting for THORN which is a private organization. They're all on behalf of THORN in the tunnels and there is no official representation of Reps and Imps down in the tunnels. Shouldn't it be like they're dropping their loyalties and identities for the sake of fighting a common threat? Otherwise they should not be rewarded by THORN with their rewards, for attacking other THORN members and putting halt to their operations.

 

It's dumb lore-wise that Rakghoul tunnels are a pvp area.

 

Biggest concern of mine is abusing and exploiting the revive mechanics by casting aoe in the area player attempts to revive himself.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Alec_Fortescue

[CosmicKat]

I don't get it lore wise. Both republic and empire are fighting for THORN which is a private organization. They're all on behalf of THORN in the tunnels and there is no official representation of Reps and Imps down in the tunnels. Shouldn't it be like they're dropping their loyalties and identities for the sake of fighting a common threat?

 

It's dumb lore-wise that Rakghoul tunnels are a pvp area.

 

Psst.... they are Space Zombies that were used to ride the coattails of Walking Dead's resurgence of the zombie genre in pop culture.

[mikebevo]

It's dumb lore-wise that Rakghoul tunnels are a pvp area.

It would be dumb if you were auto-flagged just for going in there. As it is now, it is choice. I have seen Imps helping republic players and republic players helping Imps, then again I have seen jerks being jerks. Just like real life, so to me it is fine lore-wise.

[Alec_Fortescue]

It would be dumb if you were auto-flagged just for going in there. As it is now, it is choice. I have seen Imps helping republic players and republic players helping Imps, then again I have seen jerks being jerks. Just like real life, so to me it is fine lore-wise.

 

The only sanctuary down there that I am aware of is the vicinity of the Eyeless raid.

[ScarletBlaze]

Actually the Sith should be doing something differently considering it was the Sith that first started the Rakqhoul plague in the first place. They should not be helping trying to stop it. They should be trying to increase the spread and therefore not killing the Rakghouls.

 

 

The rakghoul plague was originally created by the Sith Lord Karness Muur. Muur was one of the Dark Jedi Exiles who were banished to the Sith-controlled world of Korriban, following their defeat at the Battle of Corbos which ended the Hundred-Year Darkness. Like many of his contemporaries, Muur used the power of the dark side of the Force to manipulate life.[2] Muur's prized achievement was the flesh-eating rakghouls[8] and he believed that the rakghouls would be the army he would use to conquer the galaxy, using the rakghoul plague to turn his enemies into his slaves.[1] Using his Sith magic, Muur could transform any nearby sentient into a mindless rakghoul, but he found there were exceptions, however, as both Force-sensitive beings and beings from a number of non-Human species proved immune to the talisman's effects. To combat this flaw, Muur engineered a new form of the rakghoul plague, a virus-like disease that could be spread from a rakghoul's bite or a scratch from its claws. The infected victim, no matter the species or Force-sensitivity, would then slowly mutate into a rakghoul within a timeframe spanning mere hours.[1][2] Muur's ambitions for galactic conquest would be dashed after he was killed by jealous rivals, but Muur's spirit lived on through the Sith amulet he had forged in life, into which the Sith Lord had poured his mind, will, and the power to transform nearby beings into rakghouls. Possession of Muur's talisman was fleeting following his death,[2] and eventually the talisman fell into the hands of a being who brought it to the Outer Rim world of Taris where a cave in deep within the decrepit Undercity left the talisman's owner dead and the Sith amulet forgotten in the bowels of the planet.[1] There, the rakghoul plague ran rampant, and countless beings were infected. However, the government of Taris made little effort to fight the spread of the plague as it was contained in the lower levels of the ecumenopolis, a region occupied in large part by Taris' criminal underclass

Edited January 22, 2014 by ScarletBlaze

[well]

I don't get it lore wise. Both republic and empire are fighting for THORN which is a private organization. They're all on behalf of THORN in the tunnels and there is no official representation of Reps and Imps down in the tunnels. Shouldn't it be like they're dropping their loyalties and identities for the sake of fighting a common threat?

 

It's dumb lore-wise that Rakghoul tunnels are a pvp area.

 

Biggest concern of mine is abusing and exploiting the revive mechanics by casting aoe in the area player attempts to revive himself.

 

If it actually was implemented like that where you could group against a common enemy without flagging for this or that I think it would be a nice change.I would be interested in it for sure.Right now I am tired of dailies but that would give it a different spin.You should be able to heal people in your group..use any of your skills.Aoe whatever.It is a game.Games are suppose to be fun.

[Avicii]

Here is the problem my level 28 vanguard had in this event three times: I was trying to complete the event and was fighting an npc while low on health when some d*** sith warrior level 55 comes up behind me and kills me. So later I am fighting some other npc when a mob of 55 imps just comes through and murders me. Next I am fighting yet another npc when some sorcerer comes by and randomly kills me. And this was all during the Rakgouhl event yesterday. And no I was not provoking an attack.

 

I think all of what you other people were saying was about how to avoid getting killed by other players when your at a high level, not a low level like me.

 

So I repeat my earlier question, what idiot put imps and pubs in the same cave during an event? Did they think that we would all be one big happy family and not have the level 55s go around killing the low levels just for their own entertainment just to act like d***s?

 

This is really the heart of the issue, outside of dbags running through AoE to flag other players. Why create an event that is for level 20+ when there is no shot for low levels to complete any of the quests on a PvP server?

 

The person whom noted this was made for a PvE server is right on, there is no chance a lower level will get through this area and the questions without being ganked multiple times. We all know the dbags that will camp out for hours waiting for lowbies to gank, they typically hide from max levels then claim ganking lowbies "starts WPvP".

 

Just a *********** half-assed implementation per usual. Make it for max level only or add bolster for lowbies so they have a shot. People were so excited for this to come back but the implementation is right up crap creek.

 

Edit: No I wasnt ganked, no I am not mad and I dont care that much if I dont like something I dont do. I just dont see the point in making event that will lead to newer players experiencing frustration when trying to partake in the event for the first or 2nd time. Yes they know a PvP server = PvP, however this is like herding cattle for gankers just putting the lowbies in 1 place. Bad design when it should be simple to apply bolster for them.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Avicii

[EzioMessi]

No. Not at all. The people who should be the most pissed off about griefers should be the hardcore PvPers. Griefers are the reason EQ had no PvP at launch. They are the reason why there are PvP flags, and PvE servers. Griefers destroy "legitimate" PvP. Always have and always will.

 

Yes, I am annoyed by them destroying legit PvP. Why do you think I call them noobs, as opposed to the more diplomatic term, "griefers".

 

My point is, that yes, noobs who roll on PvE servers and exploit a broken system to hunt down players who have no interest in PvP are a blotch on real PvPers names. But come on. The post I was quoting (3 or 4 quotes back) clearly implied that it's somehow the fault of the majority of the PvPers. Which was why I was annoyed by the post.

 

And the rest of my post was just on-topic suggestions for PvErs to deal with the flag exploit. I'll repost it here.

 

OT: Either avoid using AoEs altogether, or ask a friendly PvP guild for help (they exist you know ). Even if your complaints do convince Bioware to fix the broken system. When will the fix it? Next Tuesday? Next month? 6 months? Till whatever that date is, you're gonna have to learn to deal with it one way or another.

[Z-ToXiN]

I will just quote myself from another topic:

 

In open world, I will fight and kill any hostile 55's I see.

I love open world PVP. And I love 1v1s and 1v2s - whether they be duels, in warzones, or in the open world.

And when other people come join the fight and it becomes a brawl, all the better.

 

As for the complainers? Don't roll on a PVP server if you dont want to ever get ganked. Simple as that. Its Star WARS after all, not Star Treaties or Star Cease-Fire Agreements. The galaxy is being torn apart by war, one should expect to be attacked by hostiles and be prepared. Ganking someone who is fighting monsters, thats not fair? Well war isn't exactly a fair thing is it.

 

If anything, the faction crossover area adds a more dynamic element to the event. Something extra aside from just grinding out the dailies over and over.

 

I have not found the presence of opposite factions to make it any harder to complete my quests. (Although this could be because I could all too easily defeat most players 1v1 and often 1v2 and then just keep going).

 

And goodness forbid some player should actually have a CHALLENGE fighting another player compared to otherwise easy mode NPC smashing.

 

And if you dont like it... should have rolled on a PVE server.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Z-ToXiN

[FabulousDoctor]

If you play the game in a fun way (with PVP) then this event is awesome, because it becomes a real skirmish between sides. It's super fun getting together 8 people and cruising through the tunnels flagged, and wiping out republic players. There were a few republic 55s in full PVP gear that guildies warned us about, and we're a PVE guild, but we just got together a few more people in gen chat and went around calling ourselves the 'Imperial Guard', killing the guys griefing on low levels with four snipers two operatives a juggernaut and a shadow.

 

I just wish there were rewards for PVP in the event area, give us some DNA canisters after defeating X number of players!

 

Quoting myself from another whining thread, seriously the game is boring if you just sit around in a hugbox killing monsters all day. I two manned the heroic 4 yesterday and yeah, what fun, turn it in and I'm done for now. Then we got a group together and PVP was a blast.

 

If you see people 'trolling' PvErs, then just grab a bunch of people and make an ops group, even full PVP gear is worthless if they're outnumbered.

 

 

And if you really want to avoid PVP, you don't lose that much DPS for not using AOEs.

[Ayradyss]

The solution, IMO, is really simple, and it's about the game mechanics. BioWare has, simply put, implemented PvP flagging very poorly. Using a skill/ability, whether it be AoE or not, should never flag anyone, period. If you're not flagged, your skills should never affect anyone who -is- flagged, be it for the good (healing) or ill (damage), regardless of faction. So an unflagged healer's heal should not work on a flagged teammate, and not flag the healer. AoE damage set off by an unflagged player should not damage any players at all, flagged or not, and again, the user of said AoE would not be flagged.

 

This solves every instance of undesired flagging and insures that any PvP is intentional and consensual. The only way you get flagged is by specifically switching the flag on manually, or entering a PvP-designated zone.

[EzioMessi]

Quoting myself from another whining thread, seriously the game is boring if you just sit around in a hugbox killing monsters all day. I two manned the heroic 4 yesterday and yeah, what fun, turn it in and I'm done for now. Then we got a group together and PVP was a blast.

 

If you see people 'trolling' PvErs, then just grab a bunch of people and make an ops group, even full PVP gear is worthless if they're outnumbered.

 

 

And if you really want to avoid PVP, you don't lose that much DPS for not using AOEs.

 

Disagree with the bolded part. I have been on both sides of this, and can tell you that a group of 4 players ungeared takes almost 5 whole minutes to kill a single tank in full PvP gear, and even then the only reason we won was 'cause that guy was a baddie. If I was in PvP gear, it would have taken me alone all of 20 seconds to replicate that feat.

 

There's also the fact that these gank-squads move in groups of 3 or 4, to give them immunity against the occasional PvP geared foe who fights back. So to defeat them in PvE gear they would need close to 15-20 PvE geared players people. It doesn't help that if these guys have no PvP gear at all, it probably means they haven't ever step foot into a warzone and if they did, it was never with any seriousness, so they genuinely have no idea how to find another human.

 

Solution for this? They could bring PvP geared friends along or (my personal favourite) lead them into a champion mob and get them to aggro it. They won't last 5 seconds under that much pressure.

 

Or if they reaaaaaaaaly hate PvPing, they could just stop spamming AoEs like you said.

[well]

Quoting myself from another whining thread, seriously the game is boring if you just sit around in a hugbox killing monsters all day. I two manned the heroic 4 yesterday and yeah, what fun, turn it in and I'm done for now. Then we got a group together and PVP was a blast.

 

If you see people 'trolling' PvErs, then just grab a bunch of people and make an ops group, even full PVP gear is worthless if they're outnumbered.

 

 

And if you really want to avoid PVP, you don't lose that much DPS for not using AOEs.

 

So you determine what is fun for others?Thanks.Glad your on the job.Too many players think the game is to enjoy the way they want to.It is terrible.Never mind they are playing within the EULA..pfff.You pay your sub and follow the collective wisdom of those few who knows what is better for you.Besides being on a PVE server doesn't really mean it is a PVE server.

[FabulousDoctor]

So you determine what is fun for others?Thanks.Glad your on the job.Too many players think the game is to enjoy the way they want to.It is terrible.Never mind they are playing within the EULA..pfff.You pay your sub and follow the collective wisdom of those few who knows what is better for you.Besides being on a PVE server doesn't really mean it is a PVE server.

 

Nope, it does, but it also means that PVP is still a mechanic. If you were on a PVP server you couldn't change anything about how it goes down, on a PVE one you can, but people still complain because it's easier to act like someone else is at fault, and not themselves. It's the same with the Gree event - I did the whole thing the first time without ever flagging for PVP, and never dealt with griefers, yet the forums were flooded with people complaining about PVP.

 

I'm sorry that a mechanic of the game makes you unhappy and you find it unfun, but when you can easily just avoid it, it kind of loses all maturity to go on about it as if you can't.

[ScarletBlaze]

I will just quote myself from another topic:

 

In open world, I will fight and kill any hostile 55's I see.

I love open world PVP. And I love 1v1s and 1v2s - whether they be duels, in warzones, or in the open world.

And when other people come join the fight and it becomes a brawl, all the better.

 

As for the complainers? Don't roll on a PVP server if you dont want to ever get ganked. Simple as that. Its Star WARS after all, not Star Treaties or Star Cease-Fire Agreements. The galaxy is being torn apart by war, one should expect to be attacked by hostiles and be prepared. Ganking someone who is fighting monsters, thats not fair? Well war isn't exactly a fair thing is it.

 

If anything, the faction crossover area adds a more dynamic element to the event. Something extra aside from just grinding out the dailies over and over.

 

I have not found the presence of opposite factions to make it any harder to complete my quests. (Although this could be because I could all too easily defeat most players 1v1 and often 1v2 and then just keep going).

 

And goodness forbid some player should actually have a CHALLENGE fighting another player compared to otherwise easy mode NPC smashing.

 

And if you dont like it... should have rolled on a PVE server.

 

 

If you would have noticed the people talking about this are on a PVE server not a PVP server.

[DarkSaberMaster]

The solution, IMO, is really simple, and it's about the game mechanics. BioWare has, simply put, implemented PvP flagging very poorly. Using a skill/ability, whether it be AoE or not, should never flag anyone, period. If you're not flagged, your skills should never affect anyone who -is- flagged, be it for the good (healing) or ill (damage), regardless of faction. So an unflagged healer's heal should not work on a flagged teammate, and not flag the healer. AoE damage set off by an unflagged player should not damage any players at all, flagged or not, and again, the user of said AoE would not be flagged.

 

This solves every instance of undesired flagging and insures that any PvP is intentional and consensual. The only way you get flagged is by specifically switching the flag on manually, or entering a PvP-designated zone.

 

QFE. The thing a lot of these people are forgetting is that EAware fixed the AOE flagging over a year ago due to people grieving others in the Black Hole. What is happening now and in the Gree event is actually a broken mechanic. I don't have the link on hand but specifically remember that it was fixed, but ended up getting broken again.

[DarkSaberMaster]

If you would have noticed the people talking about this are on a PVE server not a PVP server.

 

This too.

[well]

Nope, it does, but it also means that PVP is still a mechanic. If you were on a PVP server you couldn't change anything about how it goes down, on a PVE one you can, but people still complain because it's easier to act like someone else is at fault, and not themselves. It's the same with the Gree event - I did the whole thing the first time without ever flagging for PVP, and never dealt with griefers, yet the forums were flooded with people complaining about PVP.

 

I'm sorry that a mechanic of the game makes you unhappy and you find it unfun, but when you can easily just avoid it, it kind of loses all maturity to go on about it as if you can't.

 

Your right people should change their style because someone is exploiting the system.I mean it isn't like they should..I don't know fix it.Let me think here.Aren't forums also for passing info on to Devs.Maybe they are just for all the Susie Sunshines.Just a note.I don't blame all PVPers..since I pvp also.You have a small group of caresteers who since they are missing their original equipment think they are bad ***s ganking folks.It isn't new.We had Pkers in D2/LOD so that has been since the early 2000s.There was a way to do it in GW1.If there is a problem with the system you fix it.That is the bottom line.

[archifikoss]

I will just quote myself from another topic:

 

In open world, I will fight and kill any hostile 55's I see.

I love open world PVP. And I love 1v1s and 1v2s - whether they be duels, in warzones, or in the open world.

And when other people come join the fight and it becomes a brawl, all the better.

 

As for the complainers? Don't roll on a PVP server if you dont want to ever get ganked. Simple as that. Its Star WARS after all, not Star Treaties or Star Cease-Fire Agreements. The galaxy is being torn apart by war, one should expect to be attacked by hostiles and be prepared. Ganking someone who is fighting monsters, thats not fair? Well war isn't exactly a fair thing is it.

 

If anything, the faction crossover area adds a more dynamic element to the event. Something extra aside from just grinding out the dailies over and over.

 

I have not found the presence of opposite factions to make it any harder to complete my quests. (Although this could be because I could all too easily defeat most players 1v1 and often 1v2 and then just keep going).

 

And goodness forbid some player should actually have a CHALLENGE fighting another player compared to otherwise easy mode NPC smashing.

 

And if you dont like it... should have rolled on a PVE server.

 

Ugh... Most of the complaints are from people on PvE servers! They have every right to complain. And NO, "don't use AoE's" is not an acceptable answer. AoE's are fun to use, many people spec for them and frankly they should not be penalized by a stupid design oversight.

[Z-ToXiN]

Ugh... Most of the complaints are from people on PvE servers! They have every right to complain. And NO, "don't use AoE's" is not an acceptable answer. AoE's are fun to use, many people spec for them and frankly they should not be penalized by a stupid design oversight.

 

Ok well if its due to a glitch with flagging on PVE servers then thats a whole other issue.

 

I wish the topic had a more informative title and original post than "whose stupid idea was it" then followed by some whining about world PVP.

Kind of generated a standard response from me.

[archifikoss]

Ok well if its due to a glitch with flagging on PVE servers then thats a whole other issue.

 

I wish the topic had a more informative title and original post than "whose stupid idea was it" then followed by some whining about world PVP.

Kind of generated a standard response from me.

 

I can understand that Being on a PvP server one should expect this so your reaction is warranted. Sorry if I got a bit snappy, I think I should sleep it off a bit

[EzioMessi]

Ugh... Most of the complaints are from people on PvE servers! They have every right to complain. And NO, "don't use AoE's" is not an acceptable answer. AoE's are fun to use, many people spec for them and frankly they should not be penalized by a stupid design oversight.

 

I know "Don't use AoEs sounds like a stupid answer". Believe me, I can tell how stupid I sound when I say it. When I say that though, my point isn't that this exploit isn't a broken game mechanic. It totally is, and PvErs have every right to complain until it gets fixed. My point is, how far is a possible fix? Next Tuesday? Next year? No one knows, since Bioware hasn't even acknowledged the issue. So I just advise everyone to not use AoEs, as a band-aid for a broken mechanic. Complaining might get the players a fix (soon TM), but they might miss out on the event if they wait for that fix. Easier to use a short term solution than miss out a fun part of the game just so you could clear trash mobs a few GCDs sooner.

[Dokar]

I know "Don't use AoEs sounds like a stupid answer". Believe me, I can tell how stupid I sound when I say it. When I say that though, my point isn't that this exploit isn't a broken game mechanic. It totally is, and PvErs have every right to complain until it gets fixed. My point is, how far is a possible fix? Next Tuesday? Next year? No one knows, since Bioware hasn't even acknowledged the issue. So I just advise everyone to not use AoEs, as a band-aid for a broken mechanic. Complaining might get the players a fix (soon TM), but they might miss out on the event if they wait for that fix. Easier to use a short term solution than miss out a fun part of the game just so you could clear trash mobs a few GCDs sooner.

 

The longer it stays the short term fix the more likely it becomes the permanent fix.. this isn't new, it has been going on for months.

[fdbgjfdhjgkjdhsg]

I had gotten killed by other players so many times today that out of pure anger I reported an imp who had randomly killed me of harassment (I consider not allowing people to complete their dailies as harassing especially if they have no defence capabilities and are a lower level). Whose sick joke was it to put imps and pubs in the same area again?