SWTOR is NOT a single player game!

[CosmicKat]

Asheron's Call came out at the same time as EQ and was very solo friendly, so it's not about the good old days vs. now, it's about which game you started with. Since I started with AC (and played other, very solo friendly games like LotRO & CoH) and not EQ I don't find the amount of soloing to be odd in an MMO, it seems normal. It's the heavy focus on "end game" that seems weird and newfangled to me.

 

Some big differences between the games you mention and TOR...

 

In solo-friendly MMO's like CoH you could team up at any level, from start to finish, and find suitable group content. That group content scaled to the group size and was generally "more fun" than any solo activity, as such, most people grouped.

 

Launch day EQ was quite solo friendly up till about level 15-20. If you wanted to solo to max, you could, though only "easily" with a druid.

 

Didn't play much of AC. I found it to be exactly the same as EQ, just not as good.

 

Most all "oldschool" MMO's also provided optional group content that would take several hours to work through, dungeons, epic quests etc. No such thing exists in TOR.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

I was reading the reply from the poster about Role Play and sadly realized how right he was, but then in the many games I played, there has not really been a true RP server.

 

In a true RP server, we are supposed to actually be the alt and talk as we play that alt, there i sno (something) no talking about RL, no introduction of information that we player know that the alt would obviously does not, etc.

 

I would love to go to a server that was RP for real, but I am yet to see that ever happen...

 

Sue

 

Many years ago I played Neverwinter Nights. We played on home made servers, ran off peoples own computers, with maybe 32 max players at anyone time. Back then, everyone who played, played because they wanted to roleplay. I had more fun in that game, than any subsequent MMO.

 

Modern MMOs have to cater to someone who is as happy playing FIFA14 or GTA4, gone are the days of these games being the sole domain of the roleplayer/fantasy addict/sci-fi fan. Once people start paying to play, things go wrong for the true RPG fan.

 

I would add that great online games are great because of the people you play with. Back in those times, everyone wanted the same thing, everyone was IC all the time. Nowadays, roleplaying is deemed to be roleplay when people are spamming emotes around the fleet. The games now are diluted by people's insistence on sharing their real lives on TS, mumble etc, which frankly I have no interest in, I logon to play a game in what I hope to be an immersive world. It does not happen, so I find that all this game now offers me, is PVP, which I still do enjoy.

Edited January 27, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[CosmicKat]

Many years ago I played Neverwinter Nights. We played on home made servers, ran off peoples own computers, with maybe 32 max players at anyone time. Back then, everyone who played, played because they wanted to roleplay. I had more fun in that game, than any subsequent MMO.

 

Modern MMOs have to cater to someone who is as happy playing FIFA14 or GTA4, gone are the days of these games being the sole domain of the roleplayer/fantasy addict/sci-fi fan.

 

This is a Bioware role playing game. Bioware thinks "role playing" means to play a role that someone else created and follow through a linear, pre-scripted story with a predetermined outcome.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

This is a Bioware role playing game. Bioware thinks "role playing" means to play a role that someone else created and follow through a linear, pre-scripted story with a predetermined outcome.

 

Ironically, Neverwinter Nights was originally a Bioware game too, or at least its prequals were, Baldur's gate etc.

[CosmicKat]

Ironically, Neverwinter Nights was originally a Bioware game too, or at least its prequals were, Baldur's gate etc.

 

Yep. They were much better back then.

 

Ironically, Baldur's Gate was a far better multiplayer game than TOR.

[Jamalzero]

Personally, I have NEVER taken part in any event, including the first incarnation of this event, ever. (other than server made ones back when Ilum still had potential) They simply do not interest me. Additionally, I have 8 L55s and have never once completed Oricon, never done anything on that little moon I cannot recall the name of, and have not done Black Hole daily's since the cap was 50, even then I only ran them a handful of times. So, there you go, your assumption is flawed.

 

Did i quote you? No...my assumption is in fact sound....I was talking about "Well" thats why i quoted him because he made a comment about what I said... What part about my assumption had anything to do with you "ThorgrimLutgen"? now that im talking to you ThorgrimLutgen if youThorgrimLutgen replied to this post then you ThorgrimLutgen can talk to me about my assumption but i wasnt assuming anything of you, just "Well" And I dont really care about how many 55s you have I have 11 soon to be 12 maybe tomorrow if i get online and get my scoundrel off 54...been here since beta and seen people cry about everything...this event is no different than any WZ really...people queue up for PvP and get 1 shot and cry about it all the time...

 

Scenario1:

oh they pushed me in fire and stunned me

 

Scenario 2:

Oh the pulled me in acid rooted me and choked me

 

Scenario 3:

Oh they pulled me up to the respawn area just before i scored in huttball and it 1 shot killed me and gave them the ball...yeah that works lol

 

Scenario 4:

Oh they pulled me up to the respawn area in civil war and a giant missile came down and 1 shot me

 

Scenario 5:

Oh they pulled me up to the respawn area in novare coast and i got 1 shot

 

Scenario 6:

Oh they pushed me out in the mine field in Novare Coast and i got blown up

 

Scenario 7:

Oh they stunned me at the pylon and ran off and i got nuked

 

Scenario 8:

Oh they pushed me out of the safe zone on hypergates and got nuked

 

All eight of the scenarios listed are all within the games mechanics, now how you use them to your advatage is not what they are intended to do but the huttball respawn area is (a) funny as hell to see players cry about in gen chat calling people cheaters and (b) has happened to me at least 10 times thats how i know about it. this is very if not the same as the rakghoul virus, as most of the complainers are saying, its a bad game mechanic and people are using the machaninc not as intended but it is being used as intended the quest to get cylinders, exp, rep, and credits is the reason peole do it, not to just spread the virus to be dickz. Honesly in every post i reply to i defend this but i dont even spread it i stay out of the event. I just did enough to get the reuseable vaccine and i always have it on, so i dont participate and i laugh at all the people running past me looking for someone to blow thier load on.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

Did i quote you? No...my assumption is in fact sound....I was talking about "Well" thats why i quoted him because he made a comment about what I said... What part about my assumption had anything to do with you "ThorgrimLutgen"? now that im talking to you ThorgrimLutgen if youThorgrimLutgen replied to this post then you ThorgrimLutgen can talk to me about my assumption but i wasnt assuming anything of you, just "Well" And I dont really care about how many 55s you have I have 11 soon to be 12 maybe tomorrow if i get online and get my scoundrel off 54...been here since beta and seen people cry about everything...this event is no different than any WZ really...people queue up for PvP and get 1 shot and cry about it all the time....................

 

What part of your assumption had anything to do with me, or anyone else? Well, the moment you typed.............. "those are dailies why wouldn't anyone want to do dailies of new content? I understand not everyone thinks the way i think but when something new is added to the game why not go check it out?" ........... you offered your opinion on a certain type of gameplay, which not everyone might hold dear to.

 

This is not about epeen waving, I don't care how many L55s you have. My point was to indicate that someone who has also played the game since beta, has no interest in that part of the game.

 

I certainly do not expect to have it forced upon me. In my opinion, being infected by someone on the fleet, who incidentally should never of even got there, who should of been shot at the spaceport, is in fact, having this event forced upon me. You solve half the problem by allowing same faction targeting and therefore, extermination of this plague.

 

No other player, within normal gameplay, should be able to control my characters looks or actions. I am the one paying to play my characters, no one else.

 

I do omit PVP here, as that is a voluntary act, you are either on a PVP server, or are flagged on a PVE server to enable it to happen, so it does take mutual agreement to one degree or another.

Edited January 28, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[Jamalzero]

What part of your assumption had anything to do with me, or anyone else? Well, the moment you typed.............. "those are dailies why wouldn't anyone want to do dailies of new content? I understand not everyone thinks the way i think but when something new is added to the game why not go check it out?" ........... you offered your opinion on a certain type of gameplay, which not everyone might hold dear to.

 

Again that was at "Well" and not you…that's why I quoted him and asked the question... Did you even read what i said?

Edited January 28, 2014 by Jamalzero

[Jamalzero]

**Getting back on topic because I think some people have derailed this conversation**

 

Point being this is not a single player game this is an MMORPG and there is "forced interaction" with other people but you reading the rules of the game and agreeing to the ToS you are acknowledging the fact that this is a Massive Mult-player Online Role Playing Game…

[horrorfaneightys]

**Getting back on topic because I think some people have derailed this conversation**

 

I hope you're including yourself in this statement.

 

Back to the original statement - whilst I agree that this game is not single-player by the very fact that it is an MMORPG, I think most of the content is single-player.

[well]

Did i quote you? No...my assumption is in fact sound....I was talking about "Well" thats why i quoted him because he made a comment about what I said... What part about my assumption had anything to do with you "ThorgrimLutgen"? now that im talking to you ThorgrimLutgen if youThorgrimLutgen replied to this post then you ThorgrimLutgen can talk to me about my assumption but i wasnt assuming anything of you, just "Well" And I dont really care about how many 55s you have I have 11 soon to be 12 maybe tomorrow if i get online and get my scoundrel off 54...been here since beta and seen people cry about everything...this event is no different than any WZ really...people queue up for PvP and get 1 shot and cry about it all the time...

 

Scenario1:

oh they pushed me in fire and stunned me

 

Scenario 2:

Oh the pulled me in acid rooted me and choked me

 

Scenario 3:

Oh they pulled me up to the respawn area just before i scored in huttball and it 1 shot killed me and gave them the ball...yeah that works lol

 

Scenario 4:

Oh they pulled me up to the respawn area in civil war and a giant missile came down and 1 shot me

 

Scenario 5:

Oh they pulled me up to the respawn area in novare coast and i got 1 shot

 

Scenario 6:

Oh they pushed me out in the mine field in Novare Coast and i got blown up

 

Scenario 7:

Oh they stunned me at the pylon and ran off and i got nuked

 

Scenario 8:

Oh they pushed me out of the safe zone on hypergates and got nuked

 

All eight of the scenarios listed are all within the games mechanics, now how you use them to your advatage is not what they are intended to do but the huttball respawn area is (a) funny as hell to see players cry about in gen chat calling people cheaters and (b) has happened to me at least 10 times thats how i know about it. this is very if not the same as the rakghoul virus, as most of the complainers are saying, its a bad game mechanic and people are using the machaninc not as intended but it is being used as intended the quest to get cylinders, exp, rep, and credits is the reason peole do it, not to just spread the virus to be dickz. Honesly in every post i reply to i defend this but i dont even spread it i stay out of the event. I just did enough to get the reuseable vaccine and i always have it on, so i dont participate and i laugh at all the people running past me looking for someone to blow thier load on.

 

WZs are the person's choice.You make a lot of assumptions in your posts.You go right ahead though.It is pretty much SOP in this forum.I been here since Beta also and seen a lot folks that think it is their right to tell other players how to play.I do agree on WZs there is way to much whining going on.Just play the game.

[Jamalzero]

I hope you're including yourself in this statement.

 

Back to the original statement - whilst I agree that this game is not single-player by the very fact that it is an MMORPG, I think most of the content is single-player.

 

Yeah i was including myself

 

Most of the content can be soloed but that doesn't make it single player…before you do anything that would require a group under normal circumstances a message flashes in chat and on your screen to let you know and indicate that you are entering a Heroic area or a Flashpoint and 2-4 players may be required to complete the mission and/or survive. If it was single player with the option to group up a message would never flash and the game would let you die with no warning.

 

THIS IS MY EXAMPLE OF A SINGLE PLAYER GAME THAT HAS A MULTI PLAYER FUNCTION.

Take Demon souls for example, It is a Solo player game with the option to go Multiplayer… Some bosses are harder than most (this is a Japanese hack and slash made by atlus on the PS3 but its an RPG hack and slash) and sometimes they are impossible to kill on your own depending on what class you chose at the start of the game and how you leveled up your skills and what you put your points in. In this game the whole thing is solo while you're alive, when you die you become a phantom and you can place a soul sign down, if someone that is alive sees your soul sign you can be summoned to their game cross server and help them thus making this solo player game multiplayer and you can get up to 2 soul signs BUT if someone want s to be a dick they can invade your game forcing you to engage in a PvP type of event… their sole purpose is to kill you and if they do they get half your money…

 

THIS IS MY EXAMPLE OF A MULTIPLAYER GAME WITH SOLO-ABLE CONTENT.

SWTOR on the other hand is a multi player game that has solo-able content e.g. if you are over leveled/over geared you can run through content by yourself. Hell instead of doing dailies sometimes i run the flash point "Red Reaper" by my self. On my 55s It takes all of 10 minutes to kill everything and get out…you get 8k credits from the quest its self, 50k credits from the mobs in the flashpoint (if you kill everything) and all the loot thats all BoP i sell it for another 20k….thats 78k in 10 minutes so i take full advantage of that while crafting or when I'm bored to just get some extra cash since no 1 daily gives me 78k and all of them take forever.

[Vendd]

WZs are the person's choice.You make a lot of assumptions in your posts.You go right ahead though.It is pretty much SOP in this forum.I been here since Beta also and seen a lot folks that think it is their right to tell other players how to play.I do agree on WZs there is way to much whining going on.Just play the game.

 

You got to love it when people try to tell you that you are playing the game wrong. It's not as if they are paying for your subscription.

 

From some all you hear is: "Wah! Wah! Wah! You are playing the game wrong. You have to play it like me. That is the only correct way of playing." Then there are the semantic police - the ones who tell you: "Don't you know this is a MMORPG? The "M" means you have to group. A group of 4 or 10 or 20, that is what makes this game "massive" - as if the M doesn't have anything to do with the fact that we play in a persistent digital gaming environment alongside thousands, if not tens of thousands of other players, millions in some cases if you count all the subscribers across all the servers.

[Khevar]

... Hell instead of doing dailies sometimes i run the flash point "Red Reaper" by my self. On my 55s It takes all of 10 minutes to kill everything and get out…you get 8k credits from the quest its self, 50k credits from the mobs in the flashpoint (if you kill everything) and all the loot thats all BoP i sell it for another 20k….thats 78k in 10 minutes so i take full advantage of that while crafting or when I'm bored to just get some extra cash since no 1 daily gives me 78k and all of them take forever.

I just had to comment -- that's a terrific idea of how to defeat "dailies" burnout. Getting money from flashpoints.

 

Have you tried this with other flashpoints? Are there any that have a similar speed / payout ratio?

[Qvasar]

Then there are the semantic police - the ones who tell you: "Don't you know this is a MMORPG? The "M" means you have to group.

 

No one said that. What people said was the "M" means you are not alone and have no right to control other people's actions towards you. You want to play the game in your own way, fine, but remember that goes both ways.

[Halinalle]

Point being this is not a single player game this is an MMORPG and there is "forced interaction" with other people but you reading the rules of the game and agreeing to the ToS you are acknowledging the fact that this is a Massive Mult-player Online Role Playing Game…

 

You have to remember that you can't force people to attack you. Do you get annoyed because single target dps class can just ignore you? Should Bioware help pvp'ers in this case?

[Vendd]

No one said that. What people said was the "M" means you are not alone and have no right to control other people's actions towards you. You want to play the game in your own way, fine, but remember that goes both ways.

 

Lots of people have said it. You don't speak for all. And I do agree with you that people should play the game in whichever way they want.

 

Not sure what you mean by the rest of your statement. You can't control other people's actions towards you in PvP/ War Zones, true enough - but that's exactly what people like about it. But it's a different situation in PvE. And of course no player controls the Game designers actions, but that is a trite point.

[Jamalzero]

I just had to comment -- that's a terrific idea of how to defeat "dailies" burnout. Getting money from flashpoints.

 

Have you tried this with other flashpoints? Are there any that have a similar speed / payout ratio?

 

Red Reaper- 78k 10 mins

 

Foundry- 55k (roughly) 20mins due to cutscenes and spacebarring

 

Boarding party- 50k-55k depedning on doing the bonus boss at the bottom and this takes about 10-11 minutes

 

Honestly Red Reaper is the fasted one with the highest income without the drawback of cutscene spacebarring...just aggro everything and AOE at 1st elevator, then take next mob to the boss and kill them all again, after 1st boss aggro all and AOE at the 2nd elevator, then kill 2nd boss, aggro last pull before the pure blood sith fight, activate Heroic moment and drop legacy Orbital strike and legacy force storm. Since the legacy orbital strike and force storm DONT have a limit to what they can attack LOS all mobs behind the giant relic before the bridge and it will 3 shot kill all 50 enemies grab loot and then kill the final boss... 10 minute Daily done and you now have 78k in your pocket. I normally do these on my Smash jug, Merc, Sorc or sniper just for the AOE spam.

[Jamalzero]

the ones who tell you: "Don't you know this is a MMORPG? The "M" means you have to group. A group of 4 or 10 or 20, that is what makes this game "massive"

 

IF this in reference to what i said you mis-quoted me, I said, MMORPG means Massive Multi-player Online Role Playing Game...I also said that this is a MULTI-PLAYER game with solo content as sited in my example in my earlier post. I know that it is highly possible to solo the content in SWTOR but it is not designed that way thats why when youre at level 17 and trying to do Hammer Station for example you CANT do it alone you have to have at least 1 other guy that knows what he/she is doing to get this done IF you wanted to 2 man a flashpoint (its possible ive done it with no wipes, Powertech Tank (treek heal comp) Operative Healer (treek heal Comp) plus Heroic moment on each boss). To even think you can accomplish the group content at level or even 1-3 levels above the group content require ment by yourself you are a fool sir...the game even tells you that a 2-4 man group is required...

 

Now im not gonna tell you how to play your game but if you want to play it that way by all means go right ahead just let me know when youre gonna attempt this by your self so i can be near the area and /recline lol

 

If this wasnt in reference to what i said then i appoligize for assuming you mis-qouted what i said but reguardless i dont think i saw anyone post on the forums that the "M" in MMORPG meant YOU MUST GROUP UP NO MATTER WHAT because not even i think that if youre over leveled or over geared....I solo kingpin bounties (which is heroic 2+ group content btw...it says it on the quest its self...)

 

But if you want to say SWTOR is a single player game and you can solo whatever you want (i know you didint say that) Go solo Arura Cannon (Heroic 4-man group) on Section X, tell me how that goes...because thats totally soloable (/sarcasm off)... Ive seen it done with 3 people before but if they dont know what to do you have to have 4 people to end the heroic. There is no way in hell anyone can do that without 4 people unless 1 person knows the 3 man trick.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Jamalzero

[Jamalzero]

You have to remember that you can't force people to attack you. Do you get annoyed because single target dps class can just ignore you? Should Bioware help pvp'ers in this case?

 

Im sorry, what!? I have no idea what youre trying to say.... is this sarcasm, trolling, or are you being serious with this post? what are you trying to say? Im not being mean, if you took it that way, I just dont understand what youre trying say here...

[Vendd]

IF this in reference to what i said you mis-quoted me, I said, MMORPG means Massive Multi-player Online Role Playing Game...I also said that this is a MULTI-PLAYER game with solo content as sited in my example in my earlier post. I know that it is highly possible to solo the content in SWTOR but it is not designed that way thats why when youre at level 17 and trying to do Hammer Station for example you CANT do it alone you have to have at least 1 other guy that knows what he/she is doing to get this done IF you wanted to 2 man a flashpoint (its possible ive done it with no wipes, Powertech Tank (treek heal comp) Operative Healer (treek heal Comp) plus Heroic moment on each boss). To even think you can accomplish the group content at level or even 1-3 levels above the group content require ment by yourself you are a fool sir...the game even tells you that a 2-4 man group is required...

 

Now im not gonna tell you how to play your game but if you want to play it that way by all means go right ahead just let me know when youre gonna attempt this by your self so i can be near the area and /recline lol

 

If this wasnt in reference to what i said then i appoligize for assuming you mis-qouted what i said but reguardless i dont think i saw anyone post on the forums that the "M" in MMORPG meant YOU MUST GROUP UP NO MATTER WHAT because not even i think that if youre over leveled or over geared....I solo kingpin bounties (which is heroic 2+ group content btw...it says it on the quest its self...)

 

I wasn't quoting you in particular on that point. Many people have said it here and on WOW and no doubt elsewhere. And I can assure you I do fully intend to play the game my way. Whether I do the things you mention or not doesn't faze me a bit. But you do come across as one those players who insists that other players do it their way. If you don't intend that perhaps you need to consider being a little less insistent on how other people should play the game.

[Jamalzero]

I can assure you I do fully intend to play the game my way. Whether I do the things you mention or not doesn't faze me a bit. But you do come across as one those players who insists that other players do it their way. If you don't intend that perhaps you need to consider being a little less insistent on how other people should play the game.

 

Right Because im so telling you how to play your game in my last post...

...Now im not gonna tell you how to play your game but if you want to play it that way by all means go right ahead

 

^^ this is soooo telling you to do things my way and not yours.......... :rolleyes:

[Vendd]

Right Because im so telling you how to play your game in my last post...

 

 

^^ this is soooo telling you to do things my way and not yours.......... :rolleyes:

 

I wasn't just referring to your last post but to all of them that I have seen - to me and to others. I was only trying to be helpful. You are free to ignore my suggestion.

[well]

You got to love it when people try to tell you that you are playing the game wrong. It's not as if they are paying for your subscription.

 

From some all you hear is: "Wah! Wah! Wah! You are playing the game wrong. You have to play it like me. That is the only correct way of playing." Then there are the semantic police - the ones who tell you: "Don't you know this is a MMORPG? The "M" means you have to group. A group of 4 or 10 or 20, that is what makes this game "massive" - as if the M doesn't have anything to do with the fact that we play in a persistent digital gaming environment alongside thousands, if not tens of thousands of other players, millions in some cases if you count all the subscribers across all the servers.

 

I hear that.I love when they bring up the single player talking point.It is like did they just start noticing all those people running around.I never had that happen in DAO.Like you brought up people pay a sub.They should be able to play and have fun.To many people think they have some Pet Rock given right to control other players.

[Jamalzero]

I wasn't just referring to your last post but to all of them that I have seen - to me and to others. I was only trying to be helpful. You are free to ignore my suggestion.

 

If you actually read all my posts since you were referring to the other ones and not particularly that one youd see that i say the same thing in all of them...

...Now im not gonna tell you how to play your game

I say this so people know im not shoving my opinion down their throats...