Charged Plating Uses.

[tunewalker]

Many have labeled this shield type as completely useless because of the number of Armor piercing capable weapons there are. While its true that quite a few weapons have this option (and some are unskippable IE Slug Railgun and Rocket pods) not every one takes these.

 

So I am going to talk mostly about its effectiveness against common ship builds. First things first lets get gunships out of the way, if you using Charge plating you are the most vunerable ship on the field to the common Slug Railgun fest no putting it lightly your only hope is to notice them and get in close and not in their line of fire before they shoot you down.

 

 

Tier 1 Strikes. Most common load outs contain Quads, Ions and Cluster missiles None of these weapons have the option for armor piercing and Ions do laughable damage to hull so them bleeding through just means your shield will last that much longer, long enough that you might have this person dead before they can burn your shields.

 

Tier 2 Strikes. Again most common loadouts contain Quads and clusters along with the proton torp. While the torp can pierce armor they also 100% pierce shields so it wouldn't matter what shield type you have if you get hit by a torp its going to do the same thing. While the quads do a fairly significant amount of damage along with the clusters, when you use the CD 1000 DPS straight to your Hull (with CD and armor upgrades) is only around 93 DPS meaning at full health it would take them around 15 seconds to bring you down (with out including shields at all) and it would take 3 seconds for it to do enough damage for you to be unable to heal it all the way with hydro spanner. Other shield types can only withstand 4 maybe 5 seconds before both your hull and shields are blown all the way through. The risk is for that 11 out of 30 seconds when your CD is not up as the damage is significantly more. During that time you don't really want to fight and thanks to the final upgrade of Charge plating regening energy while its up, you almost always have enough energy to run for 11 seconds needed for the ability to be ready again.

 

Tier 1 scouts. These poor things only get rocket pods for armor piercing everything else is susceptible to charge plating and rocket pods are hard to hit with and don't do all that much damage because of this any Tier 1 scout is susceptible to a strike properly using charge plating.

 

Tier 2 scout. Nearly the same as Tier 1 except they have access to burst lasers and while at first that looks like game over since they have access to armor piercing, not many people run Charge plating because of its known vulnerabilities to gunships so many may pick up Shield piercing in that long instead meaning that your charge plating would work just as well against these scouts as it does the tier 1 scouts. Of course if the person did pick up armor pen for use against turrets then you will find your self in a smoldering heap real fast against such opponents.

 

Concussive missiles can also get armor piercing, but it is on the same tier as target engines so no one.... and I mean NO ONE takes armor piercing on these so charge plating works well against them as well.

 

Heavy lasers can also armor pierce and its very common to run into it if they are being used, they are just less commonly used then Quads especially since again so few people run charge plating no one thinks to build to counter it.

 

(total damage reduction with full armor upgrades and companion along with CD ability is 93% meaning even if your shields are down if they don't have armor piercing they are only doing 7% damage to you). The biggest advantage to these shields is you NEVER use the power to shields setting because the bleedthrough, meaning the only thing worth it about these shields is the CD. When CD is up you take LAWLS damage (unless people are using the rare weapons that armor pierce).

 

What it ultimately comes down to is your server, if you know all the best pilots run gunship don't run these shields, if you know all the strikes on your server love their Heavy lasers for Turret busting, don't run charge plating. If you know the scouts run Burst lasers with the Armor piercing instead of the shield piercing again for turret busting again don't run Charge plating.

 

But if your server only has a couple good gunships and most are running quads, light, rapid fire, or burst lasers without the armor piercing try charge plating out. You may be surprised how many times you can head to head a scout running distortion and lawls at how after they take 0 damage for 6 seconds and they have still been pounding on you that whole time, you still have barely lost half your health and they will be gone in less then 2-3 seconds later. OR at your ability to take a beating from some guy on your tail while you take down the target you have been chasing rather then having to break off out of fear of not being able to take the hits. Just remember to repair and you can find yourself to be one of the tankiest ships out there, until every one gets wise to your act .

Edited January 18, 2014 by tunewalker

[Slivovidze]

You noticed the "bleedthrough" stat?

 

Whenever you are hit, whatever hits you, deals damage to your hull. Even my Nova's light laser. And it is not a small percentage, it is 50% (or 40%?) after the upgrade. If you pop the cooldown, you have a good protection against this, but when your cooldown is down, you really have to run from anything that fgíghts back.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Slivovidze

[tunewalker]

You noticed the "bleedthrough" stat?

 

Whenever you are hit, whatever hits you, deals damage to your hull. Even my Nova's light laser. And it is not a small percentage, it is 50% (or 40%?) after the upgrade. If you pop the cooldown, you have a good protection against this, but when your cooldown is down, you really have to run from anything that fgíghts back.

 

Of course see this

 

"The biggest advantage to these shields is you NEVER use the power to shields setting because the bleedthrough, meaning the only thing worth it about these shields is the CD"

 

The shields themselves are nearly useless but with the CD up if some one doesn't have armor piercing you are easily the tankiest ship out there because even if your "Shields" go down it doesn't matter you can take direct hits and shrug them off when the CD is being used.

 

If the CD is not up and you are in that 11 seconds of waiting for it to come off CD you will notice my suggestion is to RUN and dodge for those 11 seconds.

 

I am fully aware of EVERYTHING both good and bad about these shields. If used properly on a server that doesn't have strong Armor piercing they are easily the strongest shields when paired with hydro spanner.

[Slivovidze]

Of course see this

 

"The biggest advantage to these shields is you NEVER use the power to shields setting because the bleedthrough, meaning the only thing worth it about these shields is the CD"

 

The shields themselves are nearly useless but with the CD up if some one doesn't have armor piercing you are easily the tankiest ship out there because even if your "Shields" go down it doesn't matter you can take direct hits and shrug them off when the CD is being used.

 

If the CD is not up and you are in that 11 seconds of waiting for it to come off CD you will notice my suggestion is to RUN and dodge for those 11 seconds.

 

I am fully aware of EVERYTHING both good and bad about these shields. If used properly on a server that doesn't have strong Armor piercing they are easily the strongest shields when paired with hydro spanner.

 

Well, I also never use power to shields with my Quick Charge, that isn't such strong arguement.

 

You have a big IF there. IF you are in a match where all competent players have guns without any armor piercing, your cooldown is awesome.

 

Once your CD is not up, you need to survive, run and dodge for 11 seconds. With a fighter. Against other fighters, scouts, and even gunships. As a fighter, you can barely boost continuously for 10 seconds. Evading combat for 11 seconds is close to impossible.

 

If you get shot ONCE by pretty much anything while your cooldown is not up, your hydro spanner is most likely wasted to fix that damage.

 

As a fighter you want to be able to stay and survive in combat for long periods of time. Swooping in and out every 15 seconds is far from optimal because of fighter's low boosting capabilities. If you can use Directional shields well, they will give you far stronger protection that Charged plating ever could. If you can't use Directionals, even Quick charge with its insanely fast recharge rate will most likely beat Charged plating. 60% shield recharge rate even mid-combat does a lot.

 

Bottom line though. I understand that you like that component and you probably have success with it. It will however never be as universal and easy to use as other components and it is pretty much useless to try to convince other people to use that thing. It's like if I'd try to advertise for the Engine power converter shield which I use and like. You have to understand that people will usually go for the easy and universal instead of hard and specialized.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Slivovidze

[tunewalker]

Well, I also never use power to shields with my Quick Charge, that isn't such strong arguement.

 

You have a big IF there. IF you are in a match where all competent players have guns without any armor piercing, your cooldown is awesome.

 

Once your CD is not up, you need to survive, run and dodge for 11 seconds. With a fighter. Against other fighters, scouts, and even gunships. As a fighter, you can barely boost continuously for 10 seconds. Evading combat for 11 seconds is close to impossible.

 

If you get shot ONCE by pretty much anything while your cooldown is not up, your hydro spanner is most likely wasted to fix that damage.

 

As a fighter you want to be able to stay and survive in combat for long periods of time. Swooping in and out every 15 seconds is far from optimal because of fighter's low boosting capabilities. If you can use Directional shields well, they will give you far stronger protection that Charged plating ever could. If you can't use Directionals, even Quick charge with its insanely fast recharge rate will most likely beat Charged plating. 60% shield recharge rate even mid-combat does a lot.

 

Nope about 5 seconds of continual fire will drop both the shields and the hull of a quick charge shielded pilot. about 7 seconds for some one using Directional, some one using charge plating takes nearly the full CD to drop the person (19 seconds no one uses unupgraded shields in a strike and if you are going to talk about fully upgraded quick charge you have to talk about full upgrade charge plating.) I can break down the full math for you if you want.

 

Edit: to talk about your edit.... you are correct it will not be universally used. I never suggested that it would be as I have already stated many caveats to using it. The thing with it is, its RAREITY is in fact its GREATEST strength as nearly no one builds to counter it. With out building to counter it, they are THE strongest shields for going head to head as long as you pick your fights right. That's what star Fighter is all about any way right. Picking your fights and even against scouts you can evade them for at least 11 seconds if done right. The point is they are by no stretch of the imagination useless and a good recommendation to those who find their server not using armor piercing weapons...... which is rare to find people using any way. The most common builds, the builds most accepted DONT have armor piercing, but have a lot of shield piercing making these shields some of the strongest possible.

Edited January 18, 2014 by tunewalker

[Slivovidze]

Nope about 5 seconds of continual fire will drop both the shields and the hull of a quick charge shielded pilot. about 7 seconds for some one using Directional, some one using charge plating takes nearly the full CD to drop the person (19 seconds no one uses unupgraded shields in a strike and if you are going to talk about fully upgraded quick charge you have to talk about full upgrade charge plating.) I can break down the full math for you if you want.

 

Well, if you let someone continuously shoot you for 5 seconds, you are doing something wrong, I think. As mentioned above, you can always try to pull out numbers and math, but practice is a lot different.

Why don't gunships use plasma railguns if they do the most total damage? Why don't scouts use Thermite torpedoes?

You've gotta be ready for a space combat, not for being shot continuously 19 seconds. If it was PvE, then you could tank with that cooldown, but in PvP, someone sees that you activated huge damage reduction and either empty their AP pods into you, or just go kill someone else to reutrn to you in 15 seconds.

[dancezwithnubz]

Tier 1 scouts. These poor things only get rocket pods for armor piercing everything else is susceptible to charge plating and rocket pods are hard to hit with and don't do all that much damage because of this any Tier 1 scout is susceptible to a strike properly using charge plating.

 

i run a blackbolt as my main ship. I think you've just explained why some strike fighters seem to burst into flame with only a couple of shots.

 

yes, rocket pods are tricky to use and are slightly underpowered. i've found it's worth climbing that learning cliff as they just blow things out of the sky once you learn their secrets (tracking penalty!).

[tunewalker]

Well, if you let someone continuously shoot you for 5 seconds, you are doing something wrong, I think. As mentioned above, you can always try to pull out numbers and math, but practice is a lot different.

Why don't gunships use plasma railguns if they do the most total damage? Why don't scouts use Thermite torpedoes?

You've gotta be ready for a space combat, not for being shot continuously 19 seconds. If it was PvE, then you could tank with that cooldown, but in PvP, someone sees that you activated huge damage reduction and either empty their AP pods into you, or just go kill someone else to reutrn to you in 15 seconds.

 

The point I was making in the original post, is with those other shields you would HAVE to break off an attack on some one when you get some on tailing you when you could have finished that person off if only you had 3 more seconds. With the charge plating you can let them wail on you for 10 seconds with out breaking off the attack and still have half your Hull left before breaking off, so you get the kill that would have other wise evaded you. That's the whole point of being tanky. Being able to fight longer with out getting evasive.

[tunewalker]

i run a blackbolt as my main ship. I think you've just explained why some strike fighters seem to burst into flame with only a couple of shots.

 

yes, rocket pods are tricky to use and are slightly underpowered. i've found it's worth climbing that learning cliff as they just blow things out of the sky once you learn their secrets (tracking penalty!).

 

Ya, but the funny thing is while they do good damage they aren't nearly as deadly or dangerous as Lasers. None of the secondary weapons are. They are dangerous, but if you are resisting their lasers and they aren't resisting yours, your lasers will tear through them before their rocket pods do you. But yes if they are running rocket pods any one fighting them should get evasive as the tracking penalty screws the ability to use them and they do to much damage to go head to head unless you are lucky (scout doesn't have distortion field up (6 seconds really isn't hard to dodge for) and your charge plating is up since lets face it Lasers are still more dangerous, but that's pilot skill knowing your opponent kind of thing.

Edited January 18, 2014 by tunewalker

[dancezwithnubz]

Ya, but the funny thing is while they do good damage they aren't nearly as deadly or dangerous as Lasers. None of the secondary weapons are...

 

rocket pods are a little underpowered imho. just a little.

a large part of the learning curve is learning to pick your shots and save your ammo.

[Armonddd]

Let's ignore for a moment the fact that taking charged plating means you're building to rock bad players and get rocked by good ones (instead of taking literally anything else, which does the opposite).

 

The current meta and game mechanics just do not support charged plating as a viable choice. As long as slug railgun is the best weapon in the game, charged plating means you're dead - because you just can't use it against every slug shot and not die to the rest of the team, and if you don't use it against a slug shot, you get very nearly one-shot (1600 damage with 70% shield piercing means 1120 hull damage vs stock hull of 1450 - and bypass will guarantee a kill pre-patch unless you're bad and took reinforced armor).

 

If you're hit by a proton torpedo, you take massive damage. If you're hit by heavy lasers, you take massive damage. If you're hit by burst lasers, massive damage. If you're hit by anything while your cooldown isn't protecting you, massive damage.

 

There's just too much shield piercing and armor penetration in the current game to be able to predict it and defend against it. There's just no reason to run charged plating.

[tunewalker]

rocket pods are a little underpowered imho. just a little.

a large part of the learning curve is learning to pick your shots and save your ammo.

 

They are possibly, honestly I don't think it would be so bad if they had more ammo.

 

 

 

I think I need to say overall, that this shield component should NOT be immediately written off as it can be very strong counters for some of the common builds out there. If you know your server isn't running a lot of armor piercing weapons then I would recommend giving these shields a go with the first 2 upgrades at least. You will find yourself able to take a lot more hits then you normally would be able to before having to get evasive and at the end of the day that's the name of the game for a tanky strike fighter isn't it.

 

 

(I should really say this is more for the Teir 2 Strike fighter then the Tier 1 since the Tier 2 gets access to armor and the Tier 1 gets access to reactors which help a lot more with the more conventional shields)

[tunewalker]

Let's ignore for a moment the fact that taking charged plating means you're building to rock bad players and get rocked by good ones (instead of taking literally anything else, which does the opposite).

 

The current meta and game mechanics just do not support charged plating as a viable choice. As long as slug railgun is the best weapon in the game, charged plating means you're dead - because you just can't use it against every slug shot and not die to the rest of the team, and if you don't use it against a slug shot, you get very nearly one-shot (1600 damage with 70% shield piercing means 1120 hull damage vs stock hull of 1450 - and bypass will guarantee a kill pre-patch unless you're bad and took reinforced armor).

 

If you're hit by a proton torpedo, you take massive damage. If you're hit by heavy lasers, you take massive damage. If you're hit by burst lasers, massive damage. If you're hit by anything while your cooldown isn't protecting you, massive damage.

 

There's just too much shield piercing and armor penetration in the current game to be able to predict it and defend against it. There's just no reason to run charged plating.

 

With bypass running you actually only take around 1440 (it seems bleedthrough happens before piercing is calculated from my experience, but every one knows that the CD doesn't do jack against slug guns any way since it counts as armor already said vulnerable to that so grats.) .....Oh ya proton torp does massive damage straight to hull so lets get some directional shields....... so that protons can still do massive damage to the hull . Already talked about Burst and Heavies..... not every one runs those...... (does any one read the caveats to using this thing or do they just jump in to bash the very idea of these shields because they think its fun.)

[Armonddd]

I think I need to say overall, that this shield component should NOT be immediately written off as it can be very strong counters for some of the common builds out there. If you know your server isn't running a lot of armor piercing weapons then I would recommend giving these shields a go with the first 2 upgrades at least.

 

On what server are gunships not swarming every single match? They're stupid broken right now, and thus they're everywhere.

 

(does any one read the caveats to using this thing or do they just jump in to bash the very idea of these shields because they think its fun.)

 

I ignored most of what was posted because charged plating is so obviously bad that I can't understand why there's already a page of discussion about it.

 

How can something be "a counter to some of the common builds out there" when it's weak to the most common weapons in the game?

Edited January 18, 2014 by Armonddd

[tunewalker]

On what server are gunships not swarming every single match? They're stupid broken right now, and thus they're everywhere.

 

my server has maybe.... 6 good gunship pilots on either side.... none of them are ever on at the same time.... so I guess the answer is...... The Bastion.

[Whitelightr]

my server has maybe.... 6 good gunship pilots on either side.... none of them are ever on at the same time.... so I guess the answer is...... The Bastion.

 

Same on BC. You'll see 1, maybe 2 GS on a side. A few of us Scout pilots have them too scared to fly them I think lol.

[tunewalker]

Same on BC. You'll see 1, maybe 2 GS on a side. A few of us Scout pilots have them too scared to fly them I think lol.

 

Do you know what kind of weapons the scouts use on that server?

[Sharee]

Tier 2 scout. Nearly the same as Tier 1 except they have access to burst lasers and while at first that looks like game over since they have access to armor piercing, not many people run Charge plating because of its known vulnerabilities to gunships so many may pick up Shield piercing in that long instead meaning that your charge plating would work just as well against these scouts as it does the tier 1 scouts. Of course if the person did pick up armor pen for use against turrets then you will find your self in a smoldering heap real fast against such opponents.

 

I am using armor piercing on my flashfire exactly for that reason. With it, i can 2-shot, (with a crit one-shot) turrets. Without it, i have to waste several shots worth of valuable time killing turrets, taking more damage from them, and exposing myself to sat defenders for longer. And i am killing turrets every single game i am in.

 

I never quite understood how 9% of my damage leaking through to the enemy hull is more valuable than the above, even assuming that there is no other armored target in the game than the turrets alone. Burst laser can remove typical scout shield in one hit. I do not need any shield penetration, as the next hit encounters no shield on the way. Strike shields are more durable, but so are their hulls, so 9% of my damage to their hull is even less valuable than it would be against scout hull.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

[EDIT] just wanted to add that the relative value of charged plating might change in february, as the arrival of bombers means there will be decent hull healing available, and also scouts might become less popular.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Sharee

[Armonddd]

I am using armor piercing on my flashfire exactly for that reason. With it, i can 2-shot, (with a crit one-shot) turrets. Without it, i have to waste several shots worth of valuable time killing turrets, taking more damage from them, and exposing myself to sat defenders for longer. And i am killing turrets every single game i am in.

 

I never quite understood how 9% of my damage leaking through to the enemy hull is more valuable than the above, even assuming that there is no other armored target in the game than the turrets alone. Burst laser can remove typical scout shield in one hit. I do not need any shield penetration, as the next hit encounters no shield on the way. Strike shields are more durable, but so are their hulls, so 9% of my damage to their hull is even less valuable than it would be against scout hull.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

[EDIT] just wanted to add that the relative value of charged plating might change in february, as the arrival of bombers means there will be decent hull healing available, and also scouts might become less popular.

 

I use shield penetration because I plan to encounter good players often, and I'm not disappointed often.

 

Against a good player, 100 hull damage (the bleedthrough from a 1.1k shot) is amazing. That's damage most of them won't get an opportunity to heal. After they're slowly worn down by clusters and the dozens of pilots they're fighting against, 100 hull damage can pop them, removing a very valuable player from the other side for 30 seconds or so - an amazing boon in a close match.

 

All that said, it's an advanced strategy. If you're not fighting very high caliber pilots on a regular basis, or if you don't have a hope of vaping them, shield penetration becomes much, much less useful. It's also very likely to be invalid once bombers launch.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Armonddd

[Sharee]

Against a good player, 100 hull damage (the bleedthrough from a 1.1k shot) is amazing. That's damage most of them won't get an opportunity to heal. After they're slowly worn down by clusters and the dozens of pilots they're fighting against, 100 hull damage can pop them, removing a very valuable player from the other side for 30 seconds or so - an amazing boon in a close match.

 

If you have a pilot targeted that is full shields but low hull then of course shield piercing is useful.

 

Which is the reason why i am using the spanner for copilot ability. It seems like crap on paper, but 245 damage healed every minute actually keeps me at full hull strength between battles. It is not good enough to counter taking hits to the hull after you lose shields, but is is good enough to counter normal, passive shield penetration in the amounts you mention, ~100 damage/shot (along with the occasional crash when hugging a sat ). There is no such thing as 'slowly wearing me down'. Between quickcharge shields and hydro spanner, you either kill me in 2-3 shots or not at all.

 

Against a good player, it comes down to who sees whom first. I take them down in 2-3 shots(regardless of whether they are damaged or not), or they take me down in 2-3 shots. I guess there are situations where i could take them down in 1 shot instead(with shield piercing), but those are rare enough that sacrificing turret-killing power isn't worth it for me.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Sharee

[Armonddd]

If you have a pilot targeted that is full shields but low hull then of course shield piercing is useful.

 

Which is the reason why i am using the spanner for copilot ability. It seems like crap on paper, but 245 damage healed every minute actually keeps me at full hull strength between battles. It is not good enough to counter taking hits to the hull after you lose shields, but is is good enough to counter normal, passive shield penetration in the amounts you mention, ~100 damage/shot (along with the occasional crash when hugging a sat ). There is no such thing as 'slowly wearing me down'. Between quickcharge shields and hydro spanner, you either kill me in 2-3 shots or not at all.

 

Yeah... you're not part of the "most of them" I mentioned. Specifically because hydro spanner.

 

This is also why I will probably switch to armor penetration come 2.6.

[Whitelightr]

Do you know what kind of weapons the scouts use on that server?

 

Surprisingly its a mix. I'd say around 50% burst, 20-30 Light Laser, rest are either a mix Rapid/Lights. That is of course just observing through combat with them.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

I think the main problem with Charged Plating is that it's effectiveness depends entirely on the make up of the other team. That contrasts with the other two shield options that are effective against any team on any server. It's that lack of adaptability that kills the use of Charged Plating,

 

Other problems I see: the bleedthrough means that unless you're really good at anticipating taking damage before it hits you'll most often be reacting after you already took a good bit of damage thanks to bleed through. It has a much steeper learning curve than other shields and be very unforgiving to players who get ambushed.

 

Overall I think it's the lack of versatility, the steep(er) learning curve, and fact that only the Type 2 striker has the components to make the most of it that leads to it not being used much and getting a reputation as a bad shield choice. I don't think many people want to go with something that will either be very very good or a death trap when they have alternatives that will be effective no matter what situation they find themselves in.

[Sharee]

I think the main problem with Charged Plating is that it's effectiveness depends entirely on the make up of the other team. That contrasts with the other two shield options that are effective against any team on any server. It's that lack of adaptability that kills the use of Charged Plating,

 

Other problems I see: the bleedthrough means that unless you're really good at anticipating taking damage before it hits you'll most often be reacting after you already took a good bit of damage thanks to bleed through. It has a much steeper learning curve than other shields and be very unforgiving to players who get ambushed.

 

Overall I think it's the lack of versatility, the steep(er) learning curve, and fact that only the Type 2 striker has the components to make the most of it that leads to it not being used much and getting a reputation as a bad shield choice. I don't think many people want to go with something that will either be very very good or a death trap when they have alternatives that will be effective no matter what situation they find themselves in.

 

Keep in mind that bombers have a drone that heals 120 hull every 3 seconds. That's almost like a permanent hydrospanner, affecting multiple allies. The main disadvantage of charged plating is the fact that, barring the spanner, hull damage does not heal over time like shields do. Bombers change all that. Now you only need your hull to last you through a single fight, rather than through the whole time you're alive. This will change the metagame quite a bit, i think.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

Keep in mind that bombers have a drone that heals 120 hull every 3 seconds. That's almost like a permanent hydrospanner, affecting multiple allies. The main disadvantage of charged plating is the fact that, barring the spanner, hull damage does not heal over time like shields do. Bombers change all that. Now you only need your hull to last you through a single fight, rather than through the whole time you're alive. This will change the metagame quite a bit, i think.

 

One can only hope. I'm kinda looking forward to bombers actually as it might help give strikers a distinct role to fill with their heavy weaponry as right now it feels like they have a bunch of weapons that don't really have much practical use.