So tired of people who don't know how to price things on the GTN

[kirorx]

I said it once and i will say it agan, Aside from repair bills, there is really nothing worth spending alot of credits on in thie game.

 

If you have somewhere in the ballpark of a 1 mill at level 55, your doing fine.

 

That is my opinion on the subject of credits.

[AlexDougherty]

I said it once and i will say it agan, Aside from repair bills, there is really nothing worth spending alot of credits on in thie game.

 

If you have somewhere in the ballpark of a 1 mill at level 55, your doing fine.

 

That is my opinion on the subject of credits.

 

I get what you are saying, but I have several level 55s, and have never had 1 million credits, there is always something to buy, new armour, unlocks, dyes, etc.

 

I really can't see the point in saving it, it's not like you get any interest on it, and it can be spent customising your characters.

[anesvik]

I am an undercutter. If I have an item, I will check the lowest price...then make mine cheaper. If an item (revan's sash for example) is marked at 6.5mil I post in chat i am selling it of 6mil and put it in gtn for 6.25mil.

This actually happened. people were saying i was an idiot, that it will never sell, that its junk, or whatever..1 hr later it sold in gtn and I was laughing.

I undercut all the time, I sell EVERYTHING ( besides green and blue gear) and stuff sells faster than I can post it. "Oh but you are not making as much as you should" And? its fake money. And besides, if someone wants an item...and they see one for 100k and one for 60k...which do you think they will buy?

I find most people that complain about GTN prices are people who have an item marked higher than everyone else and are mad because their stuff is not selling.

The Players control the market, and as long as we are, I will ensure that my items are the cheapest at the time of posting. And I will make my creds. As I always do.

[Karkais]

You know, if something is being sold for silly low amount of money, buy it. Resell at higher price..

[DarthTHC]

I am an undercutter. If I have an item, I will check the lowest price...then make mine cheaper. If an item (revan's sash for example) is marked at 6.5mil I post in chat i am selling it of 6mil and put it in gtn for 6.25mil.

This actually happened. people were saying i was an idiot, that it will never sell, that its junk, or whatever..1 hr later it sold in gtn and I was laughing.

I undercut all the time, I sell EVERYTHING ( besides green and blue gear) and stuff sells faster than I can post it. "Oh but you are not making as much as you should" And? its fake money. And besides, if someone wants an item...and they see one for 100k and one for 60k...which do you think they will buy?

I find most people that complain about GTN prices are people who have an item marked higher than everyone else and are mad because their stuff is not selling.

The Players control the market, and as long as we are, I will ensure that my items are the cheapest at the time of posting. And I will make my creds. As I always do.

 

If they want the item and they see one for 100k and the other for 99.5k, which one will they buy?

[anesvik]

ya, people want to buy an item for cheap. I dont know many player that say, " Oh you are selling it for 100k? its worth more, I will give you 500k for it".

Find me that player!

And a few people made a point that if you dont like the lowest price, buy up the cheap priced ones and sell them for more. But while you post those and fight more people undercutting you...you just gave people credits. The people that undercut. They got what they wanted.

[Andryah]

If they want the item and they see one for 100k and the other for 99.5k, which one will they buy?

 

^^^ Yep.

 

Generally, I will list for 95% of the lowest list price (because I don't want to be a d-bag and undercut by a few credits). The only exception is if the lowest list price is significantly higher or lower then what I know to be prevailing market price on the server, in which case I will list for 95% of known market price AND buy up any listings that are significantly below market prices and hold them to relist later. Where there is no established market price for an item, I generally don't play that slice of the market.

 

AND... if I see anyone undercut me by 1 credit (it's a common cheese practice), then I will pull my listing and undercut them by 5% (I don't care how much deposit I loose either). Undercut me by 500 credits.. and I'm fine, but stop with the -1 credit nonsense.. it's cheesy IMO. And when I see two listings for an Item I want..... where one is an undercut by 1 or 2 credits... I buy the more expensive one.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Andryah

[branmakmuffin]

These threads entertain me every time they come up, which is about every other week.

I love the one from a couple of months ago where the OP implied that undercutting was tantamount to harassment.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

^^^ Yep.

 

Generally, I will list for 95% of the lowest list price (because I don't want to be a d-bag and undercut by a few credits).

 

Just because someone doesnt price their items according to your personal preferences or standards does not make them a "d-bag". For someone who preaches so much about "ad hominem", you sure dont mind resorting to it yourself. Blatant hypocrisy.

[CmdrShpd]

Just because someone doesnt price their items according to your personal preferences or standards does not make them a "d-bag". For someone who preaches so much about "ad hominem", you sure dont mind resorting to it yourself. Blatant hypocrisy.

 

Yeah, I don't really see how undercutting by a dollar is being a d-bag. If I'm going to get undercut, I would prefer that it be by the smallest amount possible. That way, the price of the item remains relatively stable if and when I have to relist it.

[DarthTHC]

Yeah, I don't really see how undercutting by a dollar is being a d-bag. If I'm going to get undercut, I would prefer that it be by the smallest amount possible. That way, the price of the item remains relatively stable if and when I have to relist it.

 

Let's do a little thought experiment. Let's say we're selling Advanced Awesomeness Augment 28's. Let's say when we get to GTN, there are 4 of them, all posted by the same seller, all listed for 150k with an expiration that says 1d.

 

We know from experience that there are at least 15 crafters on our server that make these. Let's see what happens to the prices after we and the other 13 post theirs.

 

First Experiment: 500 credit undercut:

 

1: 150k

2: 149.5k

3: 149k

4: 148.5k

...

15: 143k

 

Now let's say everyone undercuts to 95% of the previous post's value:

 

1: 150k

2: 143k

3: 136k

4: 130k

...

15: 78k

 

We (the crafting community) just gave up 65k credits - over 40% of the item's value - because we feel the need to undercut by 5%. Also, given the cost of Thermal Regulators especially, plus other components and time factor, we're posting at a loss now. Yay us! But I'm sure we can run some dailies to make up for that...

Edited January 17, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Andryah]

Yeah, I don't really see how undercutting by a dollar is being a d-bag. If I'm going to get undercut, I would prefer that it be by the smallest amount possible. That way, the price of the item remains relatively stable if and when I have to relist it.

 

Been discussed many times in the forum here. Undercutting someone is fine, and expected. Undercutting a price by 500+ credits (or by 3-5% if it's a low cost item) is generally considered to be the polite way of doing it. Undercutting by 1 credit is generally considered to be a childish move. Now.. it does get funny when you see a string of 1 credit undercuts one on top of the other but that's a different topic.

 

It boils down to an etiquette of behavior. Compete, but do so maturely. As a courtesy, I make sure to give a modest leeway in my list price vs another listing that I am undercutting. A lot of others do so as well. People who are active in the market a lot know what I am expressing here.

 

Example:

 

100K item listed.

100K item listed

130K item listed

 

A guy wants to come in and undercut for first sale.. so he lists for 99.99K. I get it he wants to be the low price.. so low price - 1 credit. Thing is credits have very low value in this game. A lot of players in the same opportunity also know there is a polite etiquette in the market and will list for 99,500 (500 credit discount). I generally would in this case post for 95000 - 97500 (2500-5000 credit) to be polite to the other lister and I also like to put modest pressure on keeping prices down in the GTN. It makes no matter to me if I leave a few thousand credits on the table... I am more interested in supporting good will among GTN marketeers.

 

Of course people are free to list however they please.... And I am free to buy however I please. I am by no means the only player here who will skip the 99.99K and buy the 100K item instead.. on principle.

[CmdrShpd]

Been discussed many times in the forum here. Undercutting someone is fine, and expected. Undercutting a price by 500+ credits (or by 3-5% if it's a low cost item) is generally considered to be the polite way of doing it. Undercutting by 1 credit is generally considered to be a childish move. Now.. it does get funny when you see a string of 1 credit undercuts one on top of the other but that's a different topic.

 

It boils down to an etiquette of behavior. Compete, but do so maturely. As a courtesy, I make sure to give a modest leeway in my list price vs another listing that I am undercutting. A lot of others do so as well. People who are active in the market a lot know what I am expressing here.

 

Example:

 

100K item listed.

100K item listed

130K item listed

 

A guy wants to come in and undercut for first sale.. so he lists for 99.99K. I get it he wants to be the low price.. so low price - 1 credit. Thing is credits have very low value in this game. A lot of players in the same opportunity also know there is a polite etiquette in the market and will list for 99,500 (500 credit discount). I generally would in this case post for 95000 - 97500 (2500-5000 credit) to be polite to the other lister and I also like to put modest pressure on keeping prices down in the GTN. It makes no matter to me if I leave a few thousand credits on the table... I am more interested in supporting good will among GTN marketeers.

 

Of course people are free to list however they please.... And I am free to buy however I please. I am by no means the only player here who will skip the 99.99K and buy the 100K item instead.. on principle.

 

Yeah, sorry but that doesn't make the least bit of sense to me. I don't see how undercutting by the minimum amount is immature or discourteous. In fact, like I said, I would prefer to be undercut by a dollar than by any larger amount.

[Andryah]

 

Now let's say everyone undercuts to 95% of the previous post's value:

 

Except that is not what happens. Very few players get into multiple undercuts at 5% each. 0.5%-1% is much more common. And unless there as a gankfest of undercutting going on, it has marginal effect on the prices.

 

I personally DO undercut by 5% in most cases. Sometimes others do as well, but not that common. I am more likely to see a "dumper" who lists for less then 50% (for whatever reason).

 

I undercut by 5% for several reasons: 1) to keep modest pressure on market prices. 2) it insures that I do not offend the lister above me with some faux undercut of 1 credit. 3) I am generally making between 50% and 500% profit on an item.. so my practice does not materially impact my income from selling.

 

I also will not follow an absurd price curve on an item that I know has a much lower market price. These happen fairly randomly on the GTN.... but they are so aburd as to be easy to spot. When a 100K item suddenly gets multi-listed for 500K each.... not only do they not sell well (players also know the market), they distort the market. No on Harbinger.. these don't last.. sometimes they run a day or two max, but most will collapse within hours.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Andryah

[ItachiZaku]

I am by no means the only player here who will skip the 99.99K and buy the 100K item instead.. on principle.

 

Oh, indeed. I'd even go a little higher, if it is someone I know. I was always buying my belt buckles from the same PVP healer and gems from the GM of the best raiding guild on the server (in wow) and was always repaid for my loyalty in other ways, given their expertise.

 

Another thing, if the "undercut by 1" is a known AH/GTN bot or GTN player (they have 10 for 10K, someone undercuts them for 9500 and the bot dude lists another 10 for 9499), I will almost always buy from the individual post vs the bulk poster.

[Beltane]

Not really sure why everyone's mocking the OP and bragging about being an economics expert. I know why it happens but it doesn't stop it from being annoying.

 

I honestly don't know how people make money from crafting anymore. I played with the market for several weeks. I chose to focus solely on Might Augment 28 blues. I was trying to establish the price at 15k, and I kept buying up the things cheaper than that to sell at 15k. What happens is supremely stupid.

 

I have 10 auctions at 15k, admist about 40 other auctions also at 15k.

Someone comes along and lists 10 for 14,999

Then someone lists 10 for 14,777

Then someone lists 10 for 10,000

Then someone lists 10 for 5,000

Then someone lists 10 for 3,999

 

If everyone prices at the established baseline, stuff sells and everyone profits. When you undercut by several credits it's being a jerk, but fine, price is basically the same. What I DON'T understand are the people who choose to take massive cuts in profits.

 

With cartel items it's even worse. Someone checks the GTN, sees the cheapest listed as 500k so lists his for 20k. Yes, I buy these when I can, but in high flood markets like augments it becomes impossible to keep up with the flood of people posting dozens upon dozens for drastically undercut prices.

 

I just do dailies for credits now instead of crafting and only use the GTN when I have looted/cartel items to sell.

 

Just because I understand how it works doesn't mean I don't think the people who choose to list something that's selling for 15k for 3k aren't idiots. Don't they want money?

Edited January 17, 2014 by Beltane

[Infernixx]

The problem lies in the fact that unlike normal items, CM items come at no game-cost.

 

There's no time or effort expended in getting these CM items, just RL money.

 

Because there's no attachment to the CM items, people feel free to list them at stupidly low prices because..well..they have to try and recupe 'some' of their money.

 

I'll be honest with you, I make far more money off my Biochem stims than I do off of CM stuff anymore. Sure, I have to farm up those mats, but that invested time steadily and consistently pays off for me. CM stuff is very tricky stuff to sell, requiring good timing and luck. Crafting stuff and drops from actual game-play end up making far more money these days.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

Undercutting by 1 credit is generally considered to be a childish move.

 

Even though "childish" isnt quite as offensive as "d-bag", it still doesnt change your hypocrisy. You preach and preach and preach when other people resort to "ad hominem" attacks when it is about you, but when it is about other people you dont mind calling them "d-bags" or "childish". Like I said before, blatant hypocrisy.

[MillionsKNives]

Not really sure why everyone's mocking the OP and bragging about being an economics expert. I know why it happens but it doesn't stop it from being annoying.

 

I honestly don't know how people make money from crafting anymore. I played with the market for several weeks. I chose to focus solely on Might Augment 28 blues. I was trying to establish the price at 15k, and I kept buying up the things cheaper than that to sell at 15k. What happens is supremely stupid.

 

I have 10 auctions at 15k, admist about 40 other auctions also at 15k.

Someone comes along and lists 10 for 14,999

Then someone lists 10 for 14,777

Then someone lists 10 for 10,000

Then someone lists 10 for 5,000

Then someone lists 10 for 3,999

 

If everyone prices at the established baseline, stuff sells and everyone profits. When you undercut by several credits it's being a jerk, but fine, price is basically the same. What I DON'T understand are the people who choose to take massive cuts in profits.

 

With cartel items it's even worse. Someone checks the GTN, sees the cheapest listed as 500k so lists his for 20k. Yes, I buy these when I can, but in high flood markets like augments it becomes impossible to keep up with the flood of people posting dozens upon dozens for drastically undercut prices.

 

I just do dailies for credits now instead of crafting and only use the GTN when I have looted/cartel items to sell.

 

Just because I understand how it works doesn't mean I don't think the people who choose to list something that's selling for 15k for 3k aren't idiots. Don't they want money?

 

Clearly the demand isn't meeting the supply. If the demand was there then those low price items would be purchased leaving the higher priced items. So you can accept that the price is lowered by the excess in supply and price accordingly, or you can reduce the supply and pull your items until the prices go back up.

 

I've stepped out of markets before because people were pricing themselves to the floor, and I didn't like the profit margins. I moved on and looked for another market that was more favorable. Magenta crystals I stepped away from selling for a long time because there were too many sellers. I've only recently started selling some again since I've seen less people listing them.

[JimG]

The fair market value for an item is whatever people will pay for it....not whatever artificial price you personally think is fair. Let people sell their stuff cheap and get it off the market and stick to your prices. If you panic and then try to undercut them and sell it cheap, then that's on you and your own impatience. If it's priced ridiculously cheap, then buy it yourself and re-sell it for a profit. BW fostered all this undercutting when they starting allowing people to cancel posts and because a lot of the CM stuff has absurdly low deposit amounts that are forfeited if they do cancel.

[DarthTHC]

Clearly the demand isn't meeting the supply. If the demand was there then those low price items would be purchased leaving the higher priced items. So you can accept that the price is lowered by the excess in supply and price accordingly, or you can reduce the supply and pull your items until the prices go back up.

 

I've stepped out of markets before because people were pricing themselves to the floor, and I didn't like the profit margins. I moved on and looked for another market that was more favorable. Magenta crystals I stepped away from selling for a long time because there were too many sellers. I've only recently started selling some again since I've seen less people listing them.

 

Price has no bearing on the supply/demand ratio. The only time anything is getting snapped up "because its price is low" is when its price is so far below market value that market players are willing to speculate on it.

 

When someone wants an item, they will go to the GTN and pay the price for the item. If there are items on the GTN, it doesn't mean they're over-priced. It means that nobody wants one just yet.

 

You can see this over and over and over again. I do with Advanced * Augment 28's. I watch people post them as low as 110k. Then I wait. Then all of a sudden, every once in a while, there aren't any posted and I post mine for 207k. More often than not, mine sell.

[Screaming_Ziva]

When someone wants an item, they will go to the GTN and pay the price for the item.

This is completely false. If someone wants an item, they will go to the GTN and pay the price IF they can afford it and IF the price is not ridiculous (in their eyes).

 

Example: I want a Crate-O-Matic and it is listed for 20 million on the GTN. I can afford this but I think the asking price is ridiculous so I won't buy it.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Screaming_Ziva

[DarthTHC]

This is completely false. If someone wants an item, they will go to the GTN and pay the price IF they can afford it and IF the price is not ridiculous (in their eyes).

 

Example: I want a Crate-O-Matic and it is listed for 20 million on the GTN. I can afford this but I think the asking price is ridiculous so I won't buy it.

 

You so obviously missed the point of my post.

 

Yesterday I went to the GTN and saw WidgetX posted for 110k. By your theory, that means that since it's sitting there on GTN, it's worth less than 110k.

 

But today I went to GTN and saw no WIdgetX's posted, so I posted 3 for 207k. They sold within 2 hours.

 

Well, what does that mean? Certainly the assumption that they're worth less than 110k doesn't hold up, does it? They're clearly worth 207k or more.

 

Sure, affordability is a factor. But not for the vast majority of things on the market.

 

For the vast majority of things on the market, it's about being the lowest available price at the time that someone wants to buy. You can be lowest by 1 credit or 10,000 credits or 50,000 credits. But in all cases but 1 credit, the only thing you accomplish is leaving credits laying on the table.

Edited January 17, 2014 by DarthTHC

[PlasmaJohn]

We (the crafting community) just gave up 65k credits - over 40% of the item's value - because we feel the need to undercut by 5%. Also, given the cost of Thermal Regulators especially, plus other components and time factor, we're posting at a loss now. Yay us! But I'm sure we can run some dailies to make up for that...

You're assuming that everybody does this. There's a certain threshold where the price is not worth the effort of acquiring the mats. I tend to let the silly people go burn themselves out then resume posting at my price point when they give up.

[DarthTHC]

You're assuming that everybody does this. There's a certain threshold where the price is not worth the effort of acquiring the mats. I tend to let the silly people go burn themselves out then resume posting at my price point when they give up.

 

Yeah, it was just a thought experiment to show the folly behind that sort of fixed thinking.

 

There's a price point for everything that I sell that I'll turn my competitors into suppliers. They hit it with surprising frequency.

 

I especially love, though, the people who post Bio-Mechanical Interface Chips for 100 credits per unit. Straight to the vendor, baby!

Edited January 17, 2014 by DarthTHC