Could we please have a level 10 +41 yellow-black crystal for the preorder vendor?

[Jeweledleah]

I don't know WHAT server you play on, but I just quickly logged in and took screenshots of the first page of GTN search results for every type of crystal, I figured maybe prices went up or something, since there weren't any new crystals in a most recent pack, but... the only editing I've done to the images, was cropping out the rest of the screen and putting them next to each other on a single page (and yes, that particular alt has under 300k, but being as its a lvl 15 sniper - he doesn't need more than that anyways)

 

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Yr5iBntG3fk/Uto1EV1f4tI/AAAAAAAABYU/BRV7MZEfVmo/w1621-h897-no/SWTOR_crystal_prices.jpg

 

so if you are not in fact exaggerating the prices on your server, what it means is that on your particular server? people don't buy cartel packs all that much. and that's not something bioware can fix.

 

yes, all professions took a hit with advent of cartel market. and yes, I actualy happen to think that they all need some love so that something other than biochem is useful to more people (yes, you can craft higher end mods, but other then hilts/barrels, people rarely buy them, since they can just get them with coms and so they are rarely worth researching)

 

but we're talking about crystals in this thread. and right now, they could use improvement. in fact? it would surely help if white crystals as well as that orange something color that's sold directly from cartel market - would be available at lvl 10. bioware would probably sell more of them that way. and contrary to your belief, making regular crystals available at lvl 10 will NOT reduce demand on cartel crystals. since they are the only ones that come with "pay some cartel coins and use a single crystal on every character ever, without having to spend anything ever again" feature.

 

but you seem to be against change, ANY change to status quo on principle. its pretty sad.

 

edited to add

 

What "something nice" would you propose be done for those who have been subbed since day 1 but didn't pre-order?

 

veteran rewards system. I've seen several MMO's do that most recently - final fantasy.

 

but you'd probably be against it too, since what about people who didn't subscribe from day one, right? >_> you are like a dog in a manger, I swear.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[Ratajack]

 

 

 

veteran rewards system. I've seen several MMO's do that most recently - final fantasy.

 

but you'd probably be against it too, since what about people who didn't subscribe from day one, right? >_> you are like a dog in a manger, I swear.

 

Actually, I would NOT be against a veteran rewards system.

[Ratajack]

I don't know WHAT server you play on, but I just quickly logged in and took screenshots of the first page of GTN search results for every type of crystal, I figured maybe prices went up or something, since there weren't any new crystals in a most recent pack, but... the only editing I've done to the images, was cropping out the rest of the screen and putting them next to each other on a single page (and yes, that particular alt has under 300k, but being as its a lvl 15 sniper - he doesn't need more than that anyways)

 

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Yr5iBntG3fk/Uto1EV1f4tI/AAAAAAAABYU/BRV7MZEfVmo/w1621-h897-no/SWTOR_crystal_prices.jpg

 

so if you are not in fact exaggerating the prices on your server, what it means is that on your particular server? people don't buy cartel packs all that much. and that's not something bioware can fix.

 

yes, all professions took a hit with advent of cartel market. and yes, I actualy happen to think that they all need some love so that something other than biochem is useful to more people (yes, you can craft higher end mods, but other then hilts/barrels, people rarely buy them, since they can just get them with coms and so they are rarely worth researching)

 

but we're talking about crystals in this thread. and right now, they could use improvement. in fact? it would surely help if white crystals as well as that orange something color that's sold directly from cartel market - would be available at lvl 10. bioware would probably sell more of them that way. and contrary to your belief, making regular crystals available at lvl 10 will NOT reduce demand on cartel crystals. since they are the only ones that come with "pay some cartel coins and use a single crystal on every character ever, without having to spend anything ever again" feature.

 

but you seem to be against change, ANY change to status quo on principle. its pretty sad.

 

 

Your opinion that making ALL crystals +41 stats and usable at level 10 would not impact CM crystals is simply that--YOUR OPINION. Your opinion differs from mine, but neither can be proven at the moment.

 

Regardless of our difference of opinions, there is the truth that you are asking for something that has been a CM exclusive from the inception of +41 stat level 10 crystals to be made available to every crystal so that artificers can make a few credits. IMO, this is likely because most artificers are feeling butthurt about not being able to price gouge the game's populace.

[Ratajack]

Oh please, the only reason those 2 think they shouldn't convert it is because they'd have to admit that there's something that could be improved about this game. And since they're incapable of that, they'll argue to death with you that your opinion is wrong.

 

The dude made a simple suggestion, one that would be harmless to absolutely everyone, and those 2 have to come in here and argue against it.

 

There's no reason NOT to make it a lvl 10 +41. It's not like anyone new is getting it, just the same people who have already had it for the past 2 years. I don't think doing something nice in this completely harmless form for the people who have been subbed for 2-years now would be a terrible thing.

 

 

 

 

I don't know WHAT server you play on, but I just quickly logged in and took screenshots of the first page of GTN search results for every type of crystal, I figured maybe prices went up or something, since there weren't any new crystals in a most recent pack, but... the only editing I've done to the images, was cropping out the rest of the screen and putting them next to each other on a single page (and yes, that particular alt has under 300k, but being as its a lvl 15 sniper - he doesn't need more than that anyways)

 

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Yr5iBntG3fk/Uto1EV1f4tI/AAAAAAAABYU/BRV7MZEfVmo/w1621-h897-no/SWTOR_crystal_prices.jpg

 

so if you are not in fact exaggerating the prices on your server, what it means is that on your particular server? people don't buy cartel packs all that much. and that's not something bioware can fix.

 

yes, all professions took a hit with advent of cartel market. and yes, I actualy happen to think that they all need some love so that something other than biochem is useful to more people (yes, you can craft higher end mods, but other then hilts/barrels, people rarely buy them, since they can just get them with coms and so they are rarely worth researching)

 

but we're talking about crystals in this thread. and right now, they could use improvement. in fact? it would surely help if white crystals as well as that orange something color that's sold directly from cartel market - would be available at lvl 10. bioware would probably sell more of them that way. and contrary to your belief, making regular crystals available at lvl 10 will NOT reduce demand on cartel crystals. since they are the only ones that come with "pay some cartel coins and use a single crystal on every character ever, without having to spend anything ever again" feature.

 

but you seem to be against change, ANY change to status quo on principle. its pretty sad.

 

edited to add

 

 

 

veteran rewards system. I've seen several MMO's do that most recently - final fantasy.

 

but you'd probably be against it too, since what about people who didn't subscribe from day one, right? >_> you are like a dog in a manger, I swear.

 

 

BW already did something nice for those that pre-ordered that they did NOT have to do. Nowhere did they promise that the unique color crystal would be a BIS item. They did not have to add the higher level yellow-black color crystals, but they did add them. They did this as a courtesy, to do something nice for those that pre-ordered. That apparently is not good enough for some people.

 

If you give a mouse a cookie....

[Primarch_PWnD]

BW already did something nice for those that pre-ordered that they did NOT have to do. Nowhere did they promise that the unique color crystal would be a BIS item. They did not have to add the higher level yellow-black color crystals, but they did add them. They did this as a courtesy, to do something nice for those that pre-ordered. That apparently is not good enough for some people.

 

If you give a mouse a cookie....

 

Give me a break, don't turn this into an "entitlement" issue. The dude made a simple suggestion to knock the pre-order crystal in-line with what they've done with the other crystals. There's nothing malicious or otherwise aberrant about that suggestion.

 

It doesn't change anything. Literally. Nothing changes. The only difference is being able to use it like the other crystals they've introduced. And even then, it's all the same people who already have access to it. I don't understand your emotion over arguing for Bioware NOT to do this. It won't affect you in the smallest bit.....

[branmakmuffin]

BW already did something nice for those that pre-ordered that they did NOT have to do. Nowhere did they promise that the unique color crystal would be a BIS item. They did not have to add the higher level yellow-black color crystals, but they did add them. They did this as a courtesy, to do something nice for those that pre-ordered. That apparently is not good enough for some people.

That is the essential issue.

[Icestar]

So much bitterness, some just can not let other have things they can not have themselves.

 

It is only a colour crystal that we like to use at level 10 with the same stats as any other +41.

 

Put it in the cartel market or raise the price to 1.000.000 a piece I do not care, it still is a good suggestion and I would equip the rest of my 6 chars that is not yet 55 with it because the colour is awesome!

[Jeweledleah]

Your opinion that making ALL crystals +41 stats and usable at level 10 would not impact CM crystals is simply that--YOUR OPINION. Your opinion differs from mine, but neither can be proven at the moment.

 

Regardless of our difference of opinions, there is the truth that you are asking for something that has been a CM exclusive from the inception of +41 stat level 10 crystals to be made available to every crystal so that artificers can make a few credits. IMO, this is likely because most artificers are feeling butthurt about not being able to price gouge the game's populace.

 

/sigh.. you are not even worth arguing with, except you are loud and come into every damn thread that asks for something nice for the players, especially early adopters and try to shut it down. now artificers are trying to price gouge the population? not the people who you claim are selling cartel crystals for millions making them, on your server (or so you claim) unaccesible to majority of people?

 

do you know why cartel crystals were made lvl 10? becasue bioware realized that putting an item into a pack that players cannot use until they hit lvl 50 would NOT go over well with the playerbase. and neither would making them pay money for the crystals that becomes obsolete in a few levels (by giving them low level stats) and becasue they wanted those colors to be used. I'm actualy reasonably sure that if they could figure out a way of making the stats level appropriate and then have them grow with the player? they would have done that instead.

 

but that cat is out of the bag no. there's an inequality within available crystals with cartel specific ones being objectively better than anything available in game. the game has changed. and it should change again, to correct this. but hey, who cares we are just greedy and what is it that you like to call people? ah - lazy and entitled.

you come into the threads and clog them up and derail them and you know what? I've had enough of arguing with you. ignore it is.

[Ratajack]

Give me a break, don't turn this into an "entitlement" issue. The dude made a simple suggestion to knock the pre-order crystal in-line with what they've done with the other crystals. There's nothing malicious or otherwise aberrant about that suggestion.

 

It doesn't change anything. Literally. Nothing changes. The only difference is being able to use it like the other crystals they've introduced. And even then, it's all the same people who already have access to it. I don't understand your emotion over arguing for Bioware NOT to do this. It won't affect you in the smallest bit.....

 

Could you be ANY more self-contradictory? If literally nothing changes, then NOTHING changes. This is NOT what has been requested.

 

It IS an entitlement issue. BW made a nice gesture so that the yellow-black crystals could be viable in end game content, which is way above and beyond what was promised. That, however, is not good enough for some people. Some people feel that they are entitled to more, namely being able to use those +41 stat yellow-black crystals (the crystgals BW did NOT have to add, btw) at level 10.

[Ratajack]

/sigh.. you are not even worth arguing with, except you are loud and come into every damn thread that asks for something nice for the players, especially early adopters and try to shut it down. now artificers are trying to price gouge the population? not the people who you claim are selling cartel crystals for millions making them, on your server (or so you claim) unaccesible to majority of people?

 

do you know why cartel crystals were made lvl 10? becasue bioware realized that putting an item into a pack that players cannot use until they hit lvl 50 would NOT go over well with the playerbase. and neither would making them pay money for the crystals that becomes obsolete in a few levels (by giving them low level stats) and becasue they wanted those colors to be used. I'm actualy reasonably sure that if they could figure out a way of making the stats level appropriate and then have them grow with the player? they would have done that instead.

 

I'm sorry. I did not know you were part of the dev team that made that decision. Or are you only giving us your OPINION and not necessarily fact?

 

but that cat is out of the bag no. there's an inequality within available crystals with cartel specific ones being objectively better than anything available in game. the game has changed. and it should change again, to correct this. but hey, who cares we are just greedy and what is it that you like to call people? ah - lazy and entitled.

you come into the threads and clog them up and derail them and you know what? I've had enough of arguing with you. ignore it is.

 

Lazy? In this case, no. Entitled? Most definitely.

 

If you want the +41 stats at a lower level then you'll have to use a CM crystal. If you want a specific color not available on the CM, then you'll have to wait until level 50 to get the +41 stats. Power or aesthetics-it's a choice you'll have to make. After all, not having +41 stats is NOT going to have a huge effect on your leveling.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Ratajack

[Andryah]

BW made a nice gesture so that the yellow-black crystals could be viable in end game content, which is way above and beyond what was promised. That, however, is not good enough for some people. Some people feel that they are entitled to more, namely being able to use those +41 stat yellow-black crystals (the crystgals BW did NOT have to add, btw) at level 10.

 

/Agree.

 

There was no reasonable expectation by MMO players that a pre-order item with any stat on it would be scalable to end game. Show me one MMO where they ever have been.

 

Bioware did in fact make a gesture to pre-order players at end game by giving them the ability to refresh their crystal. Such a jesture never carried any guarantee of future gesture or compliance with the continued evolution of items in game...no matter how much any of us stomp our feet or demand otherwise.

 

As I said earlier... the proper way (which Bioware HAS alluded to being on the drawing board) is to harmonize color crystals through out the game by separating color from stats. I'm sure some day this will come (probably via an expac release) and given it is on it's on the drawing board somewhere... there is no reason for them to jump through any hopes over a 2 year old entry level pre-order perk item.

 

Would it be nice if they did make the change requested? Sure!

Is it a reasonable expectation that they will do it? No!

 

Do some people express unreasonable expectations in the forum, and some even attack others over it and throw tantrums? Yes, yes they do. But I chalk it up to struggling with one's own personal frustrations.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Andryah

[Dragoon-]

I would love this too. It's my favorite crystal for ranged weapons. Not so much for Lightsabers though.

[Jeweledleah]

 

As I said earlier... the proper way (which Bioware HAS alluded to being on the drawing board) is to harmonize color crystals through out the game by separating color from stats. I'm sure some day this will come (probably via an expac release) and given it is on it's on the drawing board somewhere... there is no reason for them to jump through any hopes over a 2 year old entry level pre-order perk item.

 

 

I'm not going to argue with you on what's reasonable or not reasonable to expect (or ask for) but if above IS in fact their intention, then it will be worth the wait and would provide the best solution for everyone IMO and if it is in fact their intention then you are right, there is no point in changing existing non CM crystals yet... I would love it if you linked official statement on that matter.

[Foxtrotmikelima]

There is more profit in catering to everyone, then to cater to people who got what they paid for when they pre-ordered.

 

Except those CE Players are still very much active subscribers and preferred members. They continue to keep this game going and shouldnt easily be forgotten.

[Jimsam]

Could you be ANY more self-contradictory? If literally nothing changes, then NOTHING changes. This is NOT what has been requested.

 

FIXED: NITPICK NIPICK, ARGUING FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE

 

 

 

 

It IS an entitlement issue. BW made a nice gesture so that the yellow-black crystals could be viable in end game content, which is way above and beyond what was promised. That, however, is not good enough for some people. Some people feel that they are entitled to more, namely being able to use those +41 stat yellow-black crystals (the crystgals BW did NOT have to add, btw) at level 10.

 

I think the only people who think it is an entitlement issue are you and Bran. Entitlement = A guarantee of access to something. We already have that with the YB crystal, we can use it and you can't, and i think that is where your issue is. Asking for an improvement on what we have, and not demanding it like you seem to think we are, is perfectly fine.

 

And yes, it was great that they gave us endgame versions of the crystal, and before Makeb and 55 came out i used to use the YB crystals all the time on my characters, even though they were much more pricey compared to other lvl 50 crystals.

 

This is a suggestion, nothing more.

[Ratajack]

I think the only people who think it is an entitlement issue are you and Bran. Entitlement = A guarantee of access to something. We already have that with the YB crystal, we can use it and you can't, and i think that is where your issue is. Asking for an improvement on what we have, and not demanding it like you seem to think we are, is perfectly fine.

 

And yes, it was great that they gave us endgame versions of the crystal, and before Makeb and 55 came out i used to use the YB crystals all the time on my characters, even though they were much more pricey compared to other lvl 50 crystals.

 

This is a suggestion, nothing more.

 

ASSume much, do you? You ASSume that since I recognize that BW has already gone way above and beyond what was promised to those that pre-ordered and do not see a reason why BW should make those crystals usable at level 10 that I simply MUST not be able to use them at all. We all know what happens when you ASSume.

 

To set the record straight, I do have access to those yellow-black crystals. I pre-ordered the CE, as a matter of fact. That does not negate the fact the BW has, as I said, already gone way above and beyond what was promised to those of us who pre-ordered. They NEVER promised us a viable end game yellow-black crystal and yet they added them to the pre-order vendor, for no reason than to be nice. That is not good enough for you and some others. Here you are expecting that those crystals which BW didn't even need to add to the vendor be changed for no reason other than you are not satisfied with the nice gesture that BW already made.

 

That seems like entitlement to me.

 

If you give a mouse a cookie...

[Jimsam]

ASSume much, do you? You ASSume that since I recognize that BW has already gone way above and beyond what was promised to those that pre-ordered.... blah blah blah my opinion is the only on e that matters.

 

How old are you? Like 13? I think it's funny that i never said the word assume but you chose to put it in there anyway.. Who is an *** now lol.

 

 

I'm actually beginning to think you are here purely to troll this thread. Nothing I have (or anyone else has) said has anything to do with entitlement, just asking if something could happen. There is a difference.

[Ratajack]

How old are you? Like 13? I think it's funny that i never said the word assume but you chose to put it in there anyway.. Who is an *** now lol.

 

 

I'm actually beginning to think you are here purely to troll this thread. Nothing I have (or anyone else has) said has anything to do with entitlement, just asking if something could happen. There is a difference.

 

No, you never said the word assume, but you DID make the assumption that must have access to the pre-order crystal. Allow me to quote you:

 

I think the only people who think it is an entitlement issue are you and Bran. Entitlement = A guarantee of access to something. We already have that with the YB crystal, we can use it and you can't, and i think that is where your issue is. Asking for an improvement on what we have, and not demanding it like you seem to think we are, is perfectly fine.

 

And yes, it was great that they gave us endgame versions of the crystal, and before Makeb and 55 came out i used to use the YB crystals all the time on my characters, even though they were much more pricey compared to other lvl 50 crystals.

 

This is a suggestion, nothing more.

 

As for some poster's denials that this request stems from entitlement issues:

 

Did BW make a nice gesture which they did NOT have to make by adding yellow-black crystals to the pre-order vendor with +41 stats? Yes.

 

Was this completely unnecessary gesture enough for them? Obviously not, since they are here asking for even more than they have already been given.

[BlackSilverRoar]

If you want to continue to be so austere about entitlement, talk about why older players grinded for the Korrealis mounts & then BW discontinued the Korrealis series - and yet now it is back because newer players whined and felt entitled to one (or more).

[Andryah]

I'm not going to argue with you on what's reasonable or not reasonable to expect (or ask for) but if above IS in fact their intention, then it will be worth the wait and would provide the best solution for everyone IMO and if it is in fact their intention then you are right, there is no point in changing existing non CM crystals yet... I would love it if you linked official statement on that matter.

 

right here..........

We have, incidentally, seriously entertained removing all itemization from color crystals entirely (it makes many problems go away for us), but we didn’t have the time to make such a large change on itemization before this patch went live. - Damion Shubert

 

The larger context of what Damion was sharing was in regard to their options, choices, and balance analysis when they decided to implement and deploy crystals into the CM.

 

Source: http://oceanicgamer.com/2012/10/swtor-color-crystals-bioware-clarify-future/ which was originally sourced form the forum here.. so the original gold thread from Damion is here somewhere deep in devtracker.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Andryah

[Layno_Maul]

I didn't even know anyone used those hideous things.

 

Lol

[Mowermanx]

right here..........

 

 

The larger context of what Damion was sharing was in regard to their options, choices, and balance analysis when they decided to implement and deploy crystals into the CM.

 

Source: http://oceanicgamer.com/2012/10/swtor-color-crystals-bioware-clarify-future/ which was originally sourced form the forum here.. so the original gold thread from Damion is here somewhere deep in devtracker.

 

I'm glad you found that, I went looking for it last week for another thread regarding crystals, but damned if I couldn't find it.

And he is spot on, that it makes many problems go away, including raising stats each gear update and having bis stated gear in the cartel market.

[Jeweledleah]

I'm glad you found that, I went looking for it last week for another thread regarding crystals, but damned if I couldn't find it.

And he is spot on, that it makes many problems go away, including raising stats each gear update and having bis stated gear in the cartel market.

 

thank you very much for finding that quote Adryah and I second above. hopefully - this will be implemented in a foreseeable future as it would add a great deal more flexibility to character customization.

 

and incidentally, it also shows that the reason for making those crystals lvl 10 was NOT to give cartel crystals an edge over other colors, but rather just as I remembered - to assure that people can use the stuff they paid money for. so using "only cartel crystals should be lvl 10, or they will not sell" reasoning is a bit... unreasonable.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[Ratajack]

If you want to continue to be so austere about entitlement, talk about why older players grinded for the Korrealis mounts & then BW discontinued the Korrealis series - and yet now it is back because newer players whined and felt entitled to one (or more).

 

Can those players get a new korrealis mount by any means other than the CM? Before you say they can buy it from the GTN, it still came from the CM in order to be put on the GTN. They did not make the korrealis mounts available to purchase from vendors, did they?

 

Now, did you get what you paid for when you pre-ordered? You got a unique yellow-black color crystal, so yes, you did. Were you promised that the yellow-black crystal would be BIS or even equal to any other crystal in the game at that point or to be added in the future? No, you were not. Were you promised that they would add 2 new levels of the yellow-black color crystal to the pre-order vendor so that players would be able to use that color in end-game? No, you were not. BW did go above and beyond what was promised by adding those two new levels of yellow-black crystal to the pre-order vendor, though. That does NOT entitle anyone to be able use those crystals at level 10.

 

When they removed the white +41 stat crystals from the game and then made them available again via the CM, did they make ANY white +41 stat crystals usable at level 10/ No, they did not. They kept the CM white +41 stat crystals equal to those that had been available prior to the advent of the CM. They've already set the precedent for CM crystals being the only crystals with +41 stats that can be used at level 10.

[stealthrider]

I don't understand why there's so much opposition to this. It affects absolutely no one other than the people that would actually use the crystal from 10 onwards. Seriously, the only thing it does is make things easier for those of us that want to use the crystal while leveling. Why do so many of you want to stop that? What do you gain from limiting our options? What the hell is your problem?

 

Entiltement shmentitlement, it's a *********** cosmetic crystal. It's a model that already exists, but just isn't as convenient as the CM crystals. It doesn't give any advantage at all, to anyone. All it does is make pre-order players happy. Why do you have such a stake in stopping it? What's wrong with you?