Sadishist Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) There's a lot of Stormtrooper bashing, but rebel troopers got their butts kicked by Stormtroopers in Tantive IV. Only 1 stormtrooper (the first guy) died in that battle or so. So rebel troopers aren't much better off? Edited January 15, 2014 by Sadishist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Stormtrooper had some of the best training in the galaxy, only the Imperial Guard had better. Rebel troopers had inconsistant training, some were trained nearly as good as stormtroopers, some were just farm boys in a uniform holding a blaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Stormtrooper had some of the best training in the galaxy, only the Imperial Guard had better. Rebel troopers had inconsistant training, some were trained nearly as good as stormtroopers, some were just farm boys in a uniform holding a blaster. This pretty much Rebel Troopers came from everywhere, though the Rebels did have some training help with former Imperials who defected. They did squad based and gurilla tactics/hit and run tactics. It isn't until Crix Madine came around that they also then started having a well organized/trained SpecForces. Which from SpecForce training, even if the Trooper washed out of it(washout rate was nearly as high as Imperial SpecForce) they were still above average Troopers and could then take what they learned and apply it to when they go back to their squads and everything. Edited January 15, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane_Ren Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 As much as I agree with the other posts, the Tantive IV battle was a shoddy defence from the rebels. Yes, they were going to lose, but assuming the imps used the single door entry point, they should have taken way more casualties. A dug in defence force targeting a single door, should have wiped out dozens before they were whittled down. This is a consular and/or espionage ship (depending on your point of view) you would have thought it was manned by above average infantry at least. Granted, a lot of what passed for rebel specfor were getting ground up at Topwara at the time, but a senator should have had a half decent bodyguard. Even if they were long haired space hippies from Alderaan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Something to consider is editing. Sure we only saw one stormtrooper go down, but how long did that "battle" actually last? Editing indicates 30 seconds to a minute, but I doubt that is what really happened. Anyone got a copy of the novelization of ANH? That might shed some light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Speaking of that battle while there may have just been 1 door, the Stormtroopers came in very quick and began blasting the Rebels apart. There is also the issue of smoke from the door that could obstruct the vision of the Rebel troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane_Ren Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) There is also the issue of smoke from the door that could obstruct the vision of the Rebel troops. With all respect, I don't buy that. The rebels could have hardly thought "Oh noes! the narrow corridor now has some smoke obscuring the doorway. Best not unload as much firepower against it as we can before we die". I can be sure if I was in that position, I'd have blasted away, knowing I'd be dead long before I ran out of ammo. Put any bunch of rookies aiming in that general direction and there would have more dead stormtroopers. Edited January 17, 2014 by Kane_Ren spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) To be fair, the storm troopers had military blaster rifles and full suits of plastoid battle armour. The rebels had crummy pistols and those weird helmets. I'm surprised they managed to kill any of them. Ignoring that storm trooper armour has weird properties that make it highly effective against things that aren't main characters or ewoks, anyway. Edited January 17, 2014 by Bleeters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 With all respect, I don't buy that. The rebels could have hardly thought "Oh noes! the narrow corridor now has some smoke obscuring the doorway. Best not unload as much firepower against it as we can before we die". I can be sure if I was in that position, I'd have blasted away, knowing I'd be dead long before I ran out of ammo. Put any bunch of rookies aiming in that general direction and there would have more dead stormtroopers. They blasted the door, most of them were temporarily blinded by it and before they could recover, the first trooper was already through the door. Shooting while blinded and disoriented by an explosion is a terrible, terrible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadishist Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Were the Stormtroopers on the Devastator the 501st? http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4pyk2DuPg1r8ybi3o1_1280.jpg Edited January 17, 2014 by Sadishist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Were the Stormtroopers on the Devastator the 501st? http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4pyk2DuPg1r8ybi3o1_1280.jpg If you are meaning the ones that boarded the Tantive IV..... yes... so not only were those storm troopers, those were the best storm troopers in all the galaxy the rebels were up against, and again none of those rebels were special forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGarmaZabi Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 They're as good as the story calls for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirorx Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 As much as I agree with the other posts, the Tantive IV battle was a shoddy defence from the rebels. Yes, they were going to lose, but assuming the imps used the single door entry point, they should have taken way more casualties. A dug in defence force targeting a single door, should have wiped out dozens before they were whittled down. This is a consular and/or espionage ship (depending on your point of view) you would have thought it was manned by above average infantry at least. Granted, a lot of what passed for rebel specfor were getting ground up at Topwara at the time, but a senator should have had a half decent bodyguard. Even if they were long haired space hippies from Alderaan. A know right, Starting a battle from a choke point.....I guess they never took a military tactics class or saw the movie 300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 A know right, Starting a battle from a choke point.....I guess they never took a military tactics class or saw the movie 300. Actually an attack from a breach point was their only viable option, it was a tactic used during world war one and two (early stages breaching outmoded defenses erected against germans after ww1), and if done correctly work well. The explosive force of the breach stuns the people inside, and allows the attacking troops a brief window were they can surprise the defenders. This wasn't shown very well in the film, since it was already too long for the film companies liking, and it would have needed another five minutes plus reshooting to get this across (plus it was in the seventies so people had some idea about successful ww2 tactics). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucksfan Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Remember the battle of Endor? A bunch of cuddly teddy bears, with sticks, kicked the crap outta the Storm Troopers. Just like ninjas (originally angry farmers) took out samurai (trained combatants) training may be a large portion of outcome, but other factors such as desparation can also edge a battle the other way. besides, only one storm trooper got shot, but if you notice they couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with their aim either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane_Ren Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I'll accept that the ship had a small complement of effectively ceremonial troops, with little more than a couple of weapons lockers of blaster rifles. Any more than that and I'd be lmao under my stormtrooper helmet. I have played airsoft for many years. One example is very similar to this situation. There were three of us in a corridor of the almost identical width (no door, just open ended). The other team knew we were there, since we took one lone enemy wanderer out. The opposition popped at least 1 smoke and 2 x mark 4 thunderflash grenades and tried to storm through. They failed hard. We did eventually get flanked through a connecting room to the side, but no way did anyone get through us. This is why I'd probably suggest that the stormtroopers entered through multiple points. IIRC there were a few rebels peeling off at the back, maybe they knew an attack from their 6 was imminent. I think I'm overanalysing now, but at face value, those guys failed harder than a 6 year old CoD noob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadishist Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Actually an attack from a breach point was their only viable option, it was a tactic used during world war one and two (early stages breaching outmoded defenses erected against germans after ww1), and if done correctly work well. The explosive force of the breach stuns the people inside, and allows the attacking troops a brief window were they can surprise the defenders. This wasn't shown very well in the film, since it was already too long for the film companies liking, and it would have needed another five minutes plus reshooting to get this across (plus it was in the seventies so people had some idea about successful ww2 tactics). It was shown in the film, the rebels shielded their eyes when the door was breached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jandi Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 It was shown in the film, the rebels shielded their eyes when the door was breached. Yeah, cause they were blinded by the blast so they of course looked away, NOT prior to it. I have the movies on my HD and I suggest you watch the scene again on YT or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 (edited) Yeah, cause they were blinded by the blast so they of course looked away, NOT prior to it. I have the movies on my HD and I suggest you watch the scene again on YT or something. Done n done See....Stormtroopers cleaned house. They moved in quick, Rebels were blinded from the explosion and the Stormtroopers moved in swift with attack, they didn't really go in by 1. There was also more than 1 dead Stormtrooper at the door when Vader enters. Edited January 18, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdTOy4v8Yog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spetulhu Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Tantive IV is a consular and/or espionage ship (depending on your point of view) you would have thought it was manned by above average infantry at least. Why? It's a consular ship protected under Senate protocols. There's no need for elite guards since no one is supposed to attack it, especially not the Imperial Fleet. The fact Leia has to improvise (dumping the paydata on Tatooine with the droids) should be at least partial proof that the attack was quite unexpected. And she does the "diplomatic immunity" speech which Vader disregards. The rebels were still playing small-scale, trying to fly unnoticed when the Emperor decided to flip the table on them. Though the defense does look a bit shoddy, with ship troops hardly even trying to take cover. Maybe most of them learned combat tactics from watching cheap holoshows instead of a real academy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Why? It's a consular ship protected under Senate protocols. There's no need for elite guards since no one is supposed to attack it, especially not the Imperial Fleet. The fact Leia has to improvise (dumping the paydata on Tatooine with the droids) should be at least partial proof that the attack was quite unexpected. And she does the "diplomatic immunity" speech which Vader disregards. The rebels were still playing small-scale, trying to fly unnoticed when the Emperor decided to flip the table on them. Though the defense does look a bit shoddy, with ship troops hardly even trying to take cover. Maybe most of them learned combat tactics from watching cheap holoshows instead of a real academy? There wasn't any cover to begin with...or hardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Why? It's a consular ship protected under Senate protocols. There's no need for elite guards since no one is supposed to attack it, especially not the Imperial Fleet. The Hutts were still enslaving people, and Diplomatic Imunnity wouldn't have impressed them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spetulhu Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) The Hutts were still enslaving people, and Diplomatic Imunnity wouldn't have impressed them either. But would they attack such a ship when ordinary people can be found anywhere? High and mighty nobles, functonaries and bureaucrats will be missed by someone with big guns. Some lowlifes from an illegal or unregistered colony won't. edit: the Hutts probably sold them the "perfect" location for a new utopia anyway. Edited January 23, 2014 by Spetulhu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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